July 7, 2006 6:47 PM PDT

FBI plans new Net-tapping push

The FBI has drafted sweeping legislation that would require Internet service providers to create wiretapping hubs for police surveillance and force makers of networking gear to build in backdoors for eavesdropping, CNET News.com has learned.

FBI Agent Barry Smith distributed the proposal at a private meeting last Friday with industry representatives and indicated it would be introduced by Sen. Mike DeWine, an Ohio Republican, according to two sources familiar with the meeting.

The draft bill would place the FBI's Net-surveillance push on solid legal footing. At the moment, it's ensnared in a legal challenge from universities and some technology companies that claim the Federal Communications Commission's broadband surveillance directives exceed what Congress has authorized.

The FBI claims that expanding the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act is necessary to thwart criminals and terrorists who have turned to technologies like voice over Internet Protocol, or VoIP.

"The complexity and variety of communications technologies have dramatically increased in recent years, and the lawful intercept capabilities of the federal, state and local law enforcement community have been under continual stress, and in many cases have decreased or become impossible," according to a summary accompanying the draft bill.

Complicating the political outlook for the legislation is an ongoing debate over allegedly illegal surveillance by the National Security Administration--punctuated by several lawsuits challenging it on constitutional grounds and an unrelated proposal to force Internet service providers to record what Americans are doing online. One source, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitive nature of last Friday's meeting, said the FBI viewed its CALEA expansion as a top congressional priority for 2007.

Breaking the legislation down
The 27-page proposed CALEA amendments seen by CNET News.com would:

• Require any manufacturer of "routing" and "addressing" hardware to offer upgrades or other "modifications" that are needed to support Internet wiretapping. Current law does require that of telephone switch manufacturers--but not makers of routers and network address translation hardware like Cisco Systems and 2Wire.

• Authorize the expansion of wiretapping requirements to "commercial" Internet services including instant messaging if the FCC deems it to be in the "public interest." That would likely sweep in services such as in-game chats offered by Microsoft's Xbox 360 gaming system as well.

• Force Internet service providers to sift through their customers' communications to identify, for instance, only VoIP calls. (The language requires companies to adhere to "processing or filtering methods or procedures applied by a law enforcement agency.") That means police could simply ask broadband providers like AT&T, Comcast or Verizon for wiretap info--instead of having to figure out what VoIP service was being used.

• Eliminate the current legal requirement saying the Justice Department must publish a public "notice of the actual number of communications interceptions" every year. That notice currently also must disclose the "maximum capacity" required to accommodate all of the legally authorized taps that government agencies will "conduct and use simultaneously."

Jim Harper, a policy analyst at the free-market Cato Institute and member of a Homeland Security advisory board, said the proposal would "have a negative impact on Internet users' privacy."

"People expect their information to be private unless the government meets certain legal standards," Harper said. "Right now the Department of Justice is pushing the wrong way on all this."

Neither the FBI nor DeWine's office responded to a request for comment Friday afternoon.

DeWine has relatively low approval ratings--47 percent, according to SurveyUSA.com--and is enmeshed in a fierce battle with a Democratic challenger to retain his Senate seat in the November elections. DeWine is a member of a Senate Judiciary subcommittee charged with overseeing electronic privacy and antiterrorism enforcement and is a former prosecutor in Ohio.

A panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C., decided 2-1 last month to uphold the FCC's extension of CALEA to broadband providers, and it's not clear what will happen next with the lawsuit. Judge Harry Edwards wrote in his dissent that the majority's logic gave the FCC "unlimited authority to regulate every telecommunications service that might conceivably be used to assist law enforcement."

The organizations behind the lawsuit say Congress never intended CALEA to force broadband providers--and networks at corporations and universities--to build in central surveillance hubs for the police. The list of organizations includes Sun Microsystems, Pulver.com, the American Association of Community Colleges, the Association of American Universities and the American Library Association.

If the FBI's legislation becomes law, it would derail the lawsuit because there would no longer be any question that Congress intended CALEA to apply to the Internet.

See more CNET content tagged:
CALEA, legislation, Internet service, VoIP, proposal

248 comments

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What country am I living in?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but years ago our government use to be highly critical of the USSR and the KGB, and communists in general, because they monitored everything their citizens did and the people didn't enjoy the freedoms that we have here in the "west". Isn't our government now becoming the very thing that it used to be strongly opposed to? I don't know about you, but these news stories scare the hell out of me. Where will it end?
Posted by anomalator (83 comments )
Reply Link Flag
What this Country is Becoming
So we give up our privacy and now our free speech:

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://democracyrising.us/content/view/525/164/" target="_newWindow">http://democracyrising.us/content/view/525/164/</a>

Our politicians take what represents at least 35 to 40% of everything we make in taxation of some sort, run up ruinous debt and they are decimating the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights while getting this country into quagmire wars and making more enemies for this country.

How much more of this are we supposed to take? Can you image the people who founded this country tolerating this? The British couldn't have been any worse.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
You're in USW
Better known as the United States of the World.

Just like leaders in religion use fear and guilt to keep their population down, this same tactic is being used by our leadership. A few things to consider are these elements: Once Iraq, Syria and Iran are completed (On their way to democracization) N. Korea will likely become the next target. We've democracized W Europe, E Europe, Japan, Much of the middle east and besides the tribal issues in Africa and the little countries once N. Korea is complete the final frontier shall await us; CHina. WHat shall happen who knows but I do know that from the articles I have been writing people are constantly writing me back suggesting that it appears that we're moving to a Democracy/Communism Society... Comocracy or Demunism perhaps?

Now, with China rolling over and the final frontier complete there are two things that can happen from there, #1 - the NWO that everyones whining about will actually come into affect or #2 - There will be much less war, and a peaceful planet that can focus on the true needs of the people and planet.

This country, and the world for the most part, are breaking down. The launch of the internet and the push into real-tv has created an environment that; A. Produces a knowledge is power people, and B. Makes people long for the reality of the truth in matters. We are NOT accustom to these elements.

The country, in large part, is filled with a population that lies, gossips, is addicted, lustful, greedy and such a far cry from what ANY sacred text is about it is finally time for this breakdown to occur. I think that if a masss breakdown ocurs and shortly after we find most the world democracized or "Diverse people, with many differing religions living in the same place in peace", the bloated, hidden agenda type, greedy nasty leaders and policy's will be shattered and replaced by leaders of dignity, truth, trust, actions and accountability that will run the country and poise the world into a position where great things may coe about. For instance, imagine when there's no more threat of war, imagine the beuracracy cut down, No defense budget, red tap gone and all, then is when we will see the humans capability - this country alone could feed the entire world 10 times over, we could switch to ethanol in 1 year, we could sustain a world population of fun, food, love and more if we wanted to. It's either this, or watch the middle class desolve, the rich get very rich, and the poor grow to staggering masses.

Still, even if we go in the negative direction I hope to god all you guys are reasy to stand up for the rights and freedoms we all once so much cherished, I know damn well straight that I will and at ALL COSTS. I didnt go off to wars to fight to come back and find that i've been stripped of what I foiught for other people to have. The true turning point I suspect will be around 2012. Prepare baby, it's inevitable that a break down and re-build is coming.

-GW
Posted by gentlewarrior13 (7 comments )
Link Flag
What country am I living in?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but years ago our government use to be highly critical of the USSR and the KGB, and communists in general, because they monitored everything their citizens did and the people didn't enjoy the freedoms that we have here in the "west". Isn't our government now becoming the very thing that it used to be strongly opposed to? I don't know about you, but these news stories scare the hell out of me. Where will it end?
Posted by anomalator (83 comments )
Reply Link Flag
What this Country is Becoming
So we give up our privacy and now our free speech:

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://democracyrising.us/content/view/525/164/" target="_newWindow">http://democracyrising.us/content/view/525/164/</a>

Our politicians take what represents at least 35 to 40% of everything we make in taxation of some sort, run up ruinous debt and they are decimating the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights while getting this country into quagmire wars and making more enemies for this country.

How much more of this are we supposed to take? Can you image the people who founded this country tolerating this? The British couldn't have been any worse.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
You're in USW
Better known as the United States of the World.

Just like leaders in religion use fear and guilt to keep their population down, this same tactic is being used by our leadership. A few things to consider are these elements: Once Iraq, Syria and Iran are completed (On their way to democracization) N. Korea will likely become the next target. We've democracized W Europe, E Europe, Japan, Much of the middle east and besides the tribal issues in Africa and the little countries once N. Korea is complete the final frontier shall await us; CHina. WHat shall happen who knows but I do know that from the articles I have been writing people are constantly writing me back suggesting that it appears that we're moving to a Democracy/Communism Society... Comocracy or Demunism perhaps?

Now, with China rolling over and the final frontier complete there are two things that can happen from there, #1 - the NWO that everyones whining about will actually come into affect or #2 - There will be much less war, and a peaceful planet that can focus on the true needs of the people and planet.

This country, and the world for the most part, are breaking down. The launch of the internet and the push into real-tv has created an environment that; A. Produces a knowledge is power people, and B. Makes people long for the reality of the truth in matters. We are NOT accustom to these elements.

The country, in large part, is filled with a population that lies, gossips, is addicted, lustful, greedy and such a far cry from what ANY sacred text is about it is finally time for this breakdown to occur. I think that if a masss breakdown ocurs and shortly after we find most the world democracized or "Diverse people, with many differing religions living in the same place in peace", the bloated, hidden agenda type, greedy nasty leaders and policy's will be shattered and replaced by leaders of dignity, truth, trust, actions and accountability that will run the country and poise the world into a position where great things may coe about. For instance, imagine when there's no more threat of war, imagine the beuracracy cut down, No defense budget, red tap gone and all, then is when we will see the humans capability - this country alone could feed the entire world 10 times over, we could switch to ethanol in 1 year, we could sustain a world population of fun, food, love and more if we wanted to. It's either this, or watch the middle class desolve, the rich get very rich, and the poor grow to staggering masses.

Still, even if we go in the negative direction I hope to god all you guys are reasy to stand up for the rights and freedoms we all once so much cherished, I know damn well straight that I will and at ALL COSTS. I didnt go off to wars to fight to come back and find that i've been stripped of what I foiught for other people to have. The true turning point I suspect will be around 2012. Prepare baby, it's inevitable that a break down and re-build is coming.

-GW
Posted by gentlewarrior13 (7 comments )
Link Flag
What country am I living in?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but years ago our government use to be highly critical of the USSR and the KGB, and communists in general, because they monitored everything their citizens did and the people didn't enjoy the freedoms that we have here in the "west". Isn't our government now becoming the very thing that it used to be strongly opposed too? I don't know about you, but these news stories scare the hell out of me. Where will it end?
Posted by anomalator (83 comments )
Reply Link Flag
What country am I living in?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but years ago our government use to be highly critical of the USSR and the KGB, and communists in general, because they monitored everything their citizens did and the people didn't enjoy the freedoms that we have here in the "west". Isn't our government now becoming the very thing that it used to be strongly opposed too? I don't know about you, but these news stories scare the hell out of me. Where will it end?
Posted by anomalator (83 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Who' to say the back door will be secure?
Just imagine the people who will want to get into your router when they know for sure there is a backdoor there. the Russian Mob and maybe every hacker on the planet!

Worse of all these will only be necessary for US sold routers, so the rest of the planet will be more secure than us. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Posted by LarryLo (164 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It won't be.....
That is the biggest reason that this aproach is wrong. How many supposedly secure technologies have been invented, only to be compromised?

How many of these technologies that the government has used prevented data leaks?

Now we are to trust a mandated "Back Door" right into our modems and servers?

This aproach will only allow those we seek to keep at bay, to compromise the computer networks they desire access to.
Posted by Ghost Spider (27 comments )
Link Flag
Who' to say the back door will be secure?
Just imagine the people who will want to get into your router when they know for sure there is a backdoor there. the Russian Mob and maybe every hacker on the planet!

Worse of all these will only be necessary for US sold routers, so the rest of the planet will be more secure than us. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Posted by LarryLo (164 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It won't be.....
That is the biggest reason that this aproach is wrong. How many supposedly secure technologies have been invented, only to be compromised?

How many of these technologies that the government has used prevented data leaks?

Now we are to trust a mandated "Back Door" right into our modems and servers?

This aproach will only allow those we seek to keep at bay, to compromise the computer networks they desire access to.
Posted by Ghost Spider (27 comments )
Link Flag
They Need Something to Justify Raping the Bill of Rights
Power corrupts and our fascist masters our proving this in spades. Anyone who doesn't think this will not be abused is fooling themselves.

Our fascist masters need something to justify the raping of the Bill of Rights so why not those bogus terrorist plots? I bet they use that excuse to cram this down our throats. But hey, like they keep telling us "You have no privacy. Get over it!"

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://thestressblog.com/2006/07/07/big-scary-fake-ass-terrorist-plot-again-mere-jihadist-bravado/" target="_newWindow">http://thestressblog.com/2006/07/07/big-scary-fake-ass-terrorist-plot-again-mere-jihadist-bravado/</a>
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Reply Link Flag
They Need Something to Justify Raping the Bill of Rights
Power corrupts and our fascist masters our proving this in spades. Anyone who doesn't think this will not be abused is fooling themselves.

Our fascist masters need something to justify the raping of the Bill of Rights so why not those bogus terrorist plots? I bet they use that excuse to cram this down our throats. But hey, like they keep telling us "You have no privacy. Get over it!"

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://thestressblog.com/2006/07/07/big-scary-fake-ass-terrorist-plot-again-mere-jihadist-bravado/" target="_newWindow">http://thestressblog.com/2006/07/07/big-scary-fake-ass-terrorist-plot-again-mere-jihadist-bravado/</a>
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Gee... Maybe No Path Trains Will Be Bombed
Only the intellectually impoverished could believe that the government has a vested interest in the juvenile chatting that goes on online by the average person. On the other hand, the attempted New York Path Train bombings were discovered by eavesdropping on chatroom conversations and covertly rumaging through financial records. We probably shouldn't do that or do anything to make it easier to do that, right?

If you use a cell phone you have no privacy.
If you use WiFi you have no privacy.
If you have a birth certificate, social security number, address, telephone number, driver's license, an automobile, credit card, student ID, student loan, mortgage... You have no privacy already. Get over it.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean anyone's really out to get you...
Posted by hardedge (98 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Heil
You're a great fascist boot licker, aren't you? Do you believe everything your government masters tell you?
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
Terrorism isn't as bad as you think.
So many people shrieking " think of the terrorists we'll stop" when these kind of privacy violations are made.
Seems to me, though, that a hell of a lot more lives would be saved if the same amount of money was used on preventing, say, even car accidents.
Posted by Tomcat Adam (272 comments )
Link Flag
You Are Scared
If you researched these alleged terrorist plots you would know that at least two of these major plots were actually instigated by government agents or their informants. And the plot you refer to is basically hot air by some young men who were no terrorists but were pathetic big mouths.

But you swallow whole your government's stories like a good sheep. The whole point of it is to keep people scared so they will continue to give up their civil liberties. It worked in spades on you.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
GEE... they've brainwashed another1
hope u wake up soon!
Posted by hyghwayman (78 comments )
Link Flag
Re: Gee... Maybe No Path Trains Will Be Bombed
I'd have to agree. It looks like the Bill of Rights was ratified in
1791. It's 215 years later and it's not just horses and buggies
anymore.

I could care less about who in law enforcement is listening in on
my calls, IMs, etc. It just stopped bothering me long ago. The
Government isn't concerned with stuff that goes on between
consenting adults. They're out to nail the bad guys, even
though they probably don't get a boatload of 'em this way.

I just don't get why people care so much if they're NOT doing
anything illegal.

Charles Whealton
Chuck Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
Posted by chuck_whealton (521 comments )
Link Flag
Re: Gee... Maybe No Path Trains Will Be Bombed
i'd have to agree. I'm sure the government could care less about
legitimate adult-oriented talk that goes on in chat rooms. And
besides, chat rooms, IRC, etc., aren't private. Plus, your packets
are always going over a network for a multitude of people/
entities - including the government - to sniff out and
reassemble if they want.

I came to the conclusion long ago that if there's something I
want to keep private, the only way is to speak to a person in
private, in the middle of nowhere - and that may not be private.

In the end, if you're not doing anything illegal, the wiretaps don't
affect you.

When the government DOES start nailing people for private
conversations for things as petty as "hey, I want 10mph over the
speed limit today", that's when there will be reason to worry (in
my opinion).

Charles Whealton
Chuck Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
Posted by chuck_whealton (521 comments )
Link Flag
Brainwashed fools
You live in a bubble and are a member of that group you mentioned (intellectually impoverished) if you think this is a good thing. The whole thing about the blowing up of the tunnels etc, wouldn't really work to do what the FBI said, water doesn't flow up hill very good at all. It's the privacy or being secure in our "stuff" is in the Constitution and this law is against the Constitution. If you want to give up those rights as well MOVE TO CHINA, you are about as American as the Chinese government. We the actually still sort of free citizens want less government and more of our freedoms. I bet you are afraid of guns too. If the trains were targets the CIA would of bombed them already. It's all to keep the sheeple in the herd.
Ben Franklin said something about those who would give up their liberty/freedom for a bit of false security, deserves neither and I agree with old Ben on this. The Governments job is to prevent bad business's from doing us harm. Did you believe that there were WMD in Iraq ready to attack the USA? By the way Israel is not part of the USA and they have caused most of the wars in their region.
They don't deserve any help from us, they need to be bombed because they have all the WMD there is in the region and are the only threat to stability in the region. You need to get your TV off FAUX NEWS and get some truth in your life. HUMMM KATT
Posted by Kattmanduu (4 comments )
Link Flag
If you are buying that chatroom news story...
...I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...

And you twisted the quote, it oges more like, "just becuase you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they aren't out to get you"

You're twisting of the quote doesn't even make any sense, just calling us paranoid is getting your message of insulting us out loud and clear...

...Alberto Gonzales!!!! That's right, I know it's you...
Posted by MisterFlibble (207 comments )
Link Flag
Look who's talking about "intellectually impoverished "
These Internet chat rooms you mention, are public, and as a result not "private". Do I need to spell everything out for you? Did you go to the George Bush School of how to be an Interwebnet genius?
You really should get a grip. I realize you probably sway far right, but the rest of us enjoy our freedom. We don't care to live in your Radical Republican police state. If you want to give your freedom of privacy, just install VNC and send the authentication details to the FBI. Till then if I need your opinion, I'll tell you what it is.
Posted by MaxP0wer (4 comments )
Link Flag
Gee... Maybe No Path Trains Will Be Bombed
Only the intellectually impoverished could believe that the government has a vested interest in the juvenile chatting that goes on online by the average person. On the other hand, the attempted New York Path Train bombings were discovered by eavesdropping on chatroom conversations and covertly rumaging through financial records. We probably shouldn't do that or do anything to make it easier to do that, right?

If you use a cell phone you have no privacy.
If you use WiFi you have no privacy.
If you have a birth certificate, social security number, address, telephone number, driver's license, an automobile, credit card, student ID, student loan, mortgage... You have no privacy already. Get over it.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean anyone's really out to get you...
Posted by hardedge (98 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Heil
You're a great fascist boot licker, aren't you? Do you believe everything your government masters tell you?
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
Terrorism isn't as bad as you think.
So many people shrieking " think of the terrorists we'll stop" when these kind of privacy violations are made.
Seems to me, though, that a hell of a lot more lives would be saved if the same amount of money was used on preventing, say, even car accidents.
Posted by Tomcat Adam (272 comments )
Link Flag
You Are Scared
If you researched these alleged terrorist plots you would know that at least two of these major plots were actually instigated by government agents or their informants. And the plot you refer to is basically hot air by some young men who were no terrorists but were pathetic big mouths.

But you swallow whole your government's stories like a good sheep. The whole point of it is to keep people scared so they will continue to give up their civil liberties. It worked in spades on you.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
GEE... they've brainwashed another1
hope u wake up soon!
Posted by hyghwayman (78 comments )
Link Flag
Re: Gee... Maybe No Path Trains Will Be Bombed
I'd have to agree. It looks like the Bill of Rights was ratified in
1791. It's 215 years later and it's not just horses and buggies
anymore.

I could care less about who in law enforcement is listening in on
my calls, IMs, etc. It just stopped bothering me long ago. The
Government isn't concerned with stuff that goes on between
consenting adults. They're out to nail the bad guys, even
though they probably don't get a boatload of 'em this way.

I just don't get why people care so much if they're NOT doing
anything illegal.

Charles Whealton
Chuck Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
Posted by chuck_whealton (521 comments )
Link Flag
Re: Gee... Maybe No Path Trains Will Be Bombed
i'd have to agree. I'm sure the government could care less about
legitimate adult-oriented talk that goes on in chat rooms. And
besides, chat rooms, IRC, etc., aren't private. Plus, your packets
are always going over a network for a multitude of people/
entities - including the government - to sniff out and
reassemble if they want.

I came to the conclusion long ago that if there's something I
want to keep private, the only way is to speak to a person in
private, in the middle of nowhere - and that may not be private.

In the end, if you're not doing anything illegal, the wiretaps don't
affect you.

When the government DOES start nailing people for private
conversations for things as petty as "hey, I want 10mph over the
speed limit today", that's when there will be reason to worry (in
my opinion).

Charles Whealton
Chuck Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
Posted by chuck_whealton (521 comments )
Link Flag
Brainwashed fools
You live in a bubble and are a member of that group you mentioned (intellectually impoverished) if you think this is a good thing. The whole thing about the blowing up of the tunnels etc, wouldn't really work to do what the FBI said, water doesn't flow up hill very good at all. It's the privacy or being secure in our "stuff" is in the Constitution and this law is against the Constitution. If you want to give up those rights as well MOVE TO CHINA, you are about as American as the Chinese government. We the actually still sort of free citizens want less government and more of our freedoms. I bet you are afraid of guns too. If the trains were targets the CIA would of bombed them already. It's all to keep the sheeple in the herd.
Ben Franklin said something about those who would give up their liberty/freedom for a bit of false security, deserves neither and I agree with old Ben on this. The Governments job is to prevent bad business's from doing us harm. Did you believe that there were WMD in Iraq ready to attack the USA? By the way Israel is not part of the USA and they have caused most of the wars in their region.
They don't deserve any help from us, they need to be bombed because they have all the WMD there is in the region and are the only threat to stability in the region. You need to get your TV off FAUX NEWS and get some truth in your life. HUMMM KATT
Posted by Kattmanduu (4 comments )
Link Flag
If you are buying that chatroom news story...
...I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...

And you twisted the quote, it oges more like, "just becuase you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they aren't out to get you"

You're twisting of the quote doesn't even make any sense, just calling us paranoid is getting your message of insulting us out loud and clear...

...Alberto Gonzales!!!! That's right, I know it's you...
Posted by MisterFlibble (207 comments )
Link Flag
Look who's talking about "intellectually impoverished "
These Internet chat rooms you mention, are public, and as a result not "private". Do I need to spell everything out for you? Did you go to the George Bush School of how to be an Interwebnet genius?
You really should get a grip. I realize you probably sway far right, but the rest of us enjoy our freedom. We don't care to live in your Radical Republican police state. If you want to give your freedom of privacy, just install VNC and send the authentication details to the FBI. Till then if I need your opinion, I'll tell you what it is.
Posted by MaxP0wer (4 comments )
Link Flag
What this Country Is Becoming
So we give up our privacy and now our free speech:

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://democracyrising.us/content/view/525/164/" target="_newWindow">http://democracyrising.us/content/view/525/164/</a>

Our politicians take what represents at least 35 to 40% of everything we make in taxation of some sort, run up ruinous debt and they are decimating the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights while getting this country into quagmire wars and making more enemies for this country.

How much more of this are we supposed to take? Can you image the people who founded this country tolerating this? The British couldn't have been any worse.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Reply Link Flag
its becoming disgusting...
simply disgusting
Posted by cocos2000 (37 comments )
Link Flag
Ans: What this Country Is Becoming
To see what our country is becoming... All one has to do is read the novel "1984" written by Geogre Orwell and published on June 8, 1949. We are living in "Oceania" where people are living in a with the endless-war and are always spied on and are arrested for thought-crimes. Their tv sets are used to be able to listen in on the house at any time and one never knows if anyone is listing or not. The slogons are "War is peace", "slavery is freedom", etc. The language is being replaced where the meaning of words are both the good and bad meaning.

If you do not have this novel and fear the library get it off the net (real soon!) from the URL:

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/" target="_newWindow">http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/</a>

Now it is time for our 2-minute hate time....

(Remember the key is to have the population living in fear...)
Posted by alfalfaalfalfa (2 comments )
Link Flag
What this Country Is Becoming
So we give up our privacy and now our free speech:

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://democracyrising.us/content/view/525/164/" target="_newWindow">http://democracyrising.us/content/view/525/164/</a>

Our politicians take what represents at least 35 to 40% of everything we make in taxation of some sort, run up ruinous debt and they are decimating the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights while getting this country into quagmire wars and making more enemies for this country.

How much more of this are we supposed to take? Can you image the people who founded this country tolerating this? The British couldn't have been any worse.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Reply Link Flag
its becoming disgusting...
simply disgusting
Posted by cocos2000 (37 comments )
Link Flag
Ans: What this Country Is Becoming
To see what our country is becoming... All one has to do is read the novel "1984" written by Geogre Orwell and published on June 8, 1949. We are living in "Oceania" where people are living in a with the endless-war and are always spied on and are arrested for thought-crimes. Their tv sets are used to be able to listen in on the house at any time and one never knows if anyone is listing or not. The slogons are "War is peace", "slavery is freedom", etc. The language is being replaced where the meaning of words are both the good and bad meaning.

If you do not have this novel and fear the library get it off the net (real soon!) from the URL:

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/" target="_newWindow">http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/</a>

Now it is time for our 2-minute hate time....

(Remember the key is to have the population living in fear...)
Posted by alfalfaalfalfa (2 comments )
Link Flag
In the words of George W Bush
In the words of the Dear Leader, George W Bush, you are permitted only to hold the views that I offer all else is "Bizare"!

Or, as the late Dwight D Eisenhower said "If you want total security , go to prison. There you're fed, clothed , given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking is freedom."

But then again by building Barrier fencing on all open borders between Mexico and Canada, it makes it far easier to imprison the countries citizens as per pre war Nazi Germanay or the former Soviet Union!

Good old GW, slow imprisonment of all citizens by stealth and disenfranchisement of democracy, except the inmates have to feed , clothe and pay all medical expenses by design, and then be forced to pay for it simultaneously, by creating the illusion of fictitious protection from a nameless designated mystery enemy of the state!

Oh well, what can one say "Welcome to the Soviet States of Amerika" where citizens have no rights or privacy period, should they wish to express any views counter to the ruling elite!".

Choices have just evaporated, at the stroke of one man's grab for absolute power without limit or standing in law!
Posted by heystoopid (691 comments )
Reply Link Flag
They All Want Power
I agree with you that Bush certainly wants to be a dictator. But I wonder when a Democrat becomes the next president, how much of the power that Bush has claimed for the executive branch of government will the Democrat president give up? I'd say none. Both of these parties are filled with power hungry egomaniacs and both of these parties are corrupt and immoral to the core.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
In the words of George W Bush
In the words of the Dear Leader, George W Bush, you are permitted only to hold the views that I offer all else is "Bizare"!

Or, as the late Dwight D Eisenhower said "If you want total security , go to prison. There you're fed, clothed , given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking is freedom."

But then again by building Barrier fencing on all open borders between Mexico and Canada, it makes it far easier to imprison the countries citizens as per pre war Nazi Germanay or the former Soviet Union!

Good old GW, slow imprisonment of all citizens by stealth and disenfranchisement of democracy, except the inmates have to feed , clothe and pay all medical expenses by design, and then be forced to pay for it simultaneously, by creating the illusion of fictitious protection from a nameless designated mystery enemy of the state!

Oh well, what can one say "Welcome to the Soviet States of Amerika" where citizens have no rights or privacy period, should they wish to express any views counter to the ruling elite!".

Choices have just evaporated, at the stroke of one man's grab for absolute power without limit or standing in law!
Posted by heystoopid (691 comments )
Reply Link Flag
They All Want Power
I agree with you that Bush certainly wants to be a dictator. But I wonder when a Democrat becomes the next president, how much of the power that Bush has claimed for the executive branch of government will the Democrat president give up? I'd say none. Both of these parties are filled with power hungry egomaniacs and both of these parties are corrupt and immoral to the core.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
Hey Rummy, Did You Find That Missing $1 Trillion Yet?
Debates like the one going on now regarding building in yet more snooping backdoors merely serve as psyops to take the focus off the real issue which is the shadow government and shadow funding. Remember the astounding revelation back in 2003 that $1 trillion dollars in defense money went missing. Donald Rumsfeld, the bright ex-CEO of G.D. Searle and General Instrument, does not seem to know where it went, and nobody in the media seems to care. Or maybe they have been told that it would be bad for their health if they were to ask any more questions.

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/18/MN251738.DTL" target="_newWindow">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/18/MN251738.DTL</a>
"The Congress has increased defense spending from $300 billion to $400 billion over three years at the same time that the Pentagon has failed to address financial problems that dwarf those of Enron," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, one of the letter's signatories."
Posted by maxwis (141 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Disgusting
You break your ass to pay your taxes and a trillion dollars goes missing? Just proves the US Government is the greatest criminal enterprise in the history of the human race!
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
Hey Rummy, Did You Find That Missing $1 Trillion Yet?
Debates like the one going on now regarding building in yet more snooping backdoors merely serve as psyops to take the focus off the real issue which is the shadow government and shadow funding. Remember the astounding revelation back in 2003 that $1 trillion dollars in defense money went missing. Donald Rumsfeld, the bright ex-CEO of G.D. Searle and General Instrument, does not seem to know where it went, and nobody in the media seems to care. Or maybe they have been told that it would be bad for their health if they were to ask any more questions.

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/18/MN251738.DTL" target="_newWindow">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/18/MN251738.DTL</a>
"The Congress has increased defense spending from $300 billion to $400 billion over three years at the same time that the Pentagon has failed to address financial problems that dwarf those of Enron," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, one of the letter's signatories."
Posted by maxwis (141 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Disgusting
You break your ass to pay your taxes and a trillion dollars goes missing? Just proves the US Government is the greatest criminal enterprise in the history of the human race!
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
It Will Be Illegal To Import Networking Equip
I presume that one of the provisions of the new legislation will be the prohibition of foreign countries to export network equipment devoid of backdoors to the U.S. market without some sort of Commerce Department waiver. This begs the question of what to do about current, non-backdoor containing equipment. Will we all be forced to take our equipment down to the local police station for a trade-in? Will there be a dealine for trade-in beyond which you will be subject to arrest? Will the F.C.C send antenna laden unmarked vans through neighborhoods looking for rogue, unauthorized networking equipment? Will said offenders be tagged as enemies of the state and shipped off to Gitmo without due process?
Posted by maxwis (141 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It Will Be Illegal To Import Networking Equip
I presume that one of the provisions of the new legislation will be the prohibition of foreign countries to export network equipment devoid of backdoors to the U.S. market without some sort of Commerce Department waiver. This begs the question of what to do about current, non-backdoor containing equipment. Will we all be forced to take our equipment down to the local police station for a trade-in? Will there be a dealine for trade-in beyond which you will be subject to arrest? Will the F.C.C send antenna laden unmarked vans through neighborhoods looking for rogue, unauthorized networking equipment? Will said offenders be tagged as enemies of the state and shipped off to Gitmo without due process?
Posted by maxwis (141 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It's Bedtime For Democracy!
Let's just say the FBI and the NSA and "dear leader" Bush get all they want from Congress and the courts this go 'round. Then we can all sleep peacefully at night while big brother monitors all communications that go to and fro in the world (been doing it for years!). We happily traded liberty for the illusion of security as most people are so eager to do.
But wait! What if another attact occurs despite all the concerted and goodhearted efforts by our vigiliant security forces? Well of course we will need another round of legislation to permit cameras in every home, business, and public space(getting there!). Of course a federal card for everyone that will link to every action taken in your life- financial, medical, educational, penal, vocational, political, and social (already in the works!). This will be purely to catch the bad guys and no one who is honest should have anything to worry about or object. I mean you are either with us or against us, right?
As even these measures come up short in a very few years the use of mind reading devices will become mandatory in "sweeps" to purge the plotters from the pure. Then perhaps we can all really be free- free of choice that is such a burden these days! It's bedtime for democracy, sleep well comrade!
Posted by zanzzz (138 comments )
Reply Link Flag
And Bedtime for Liberty
Yes it is bedtime for democracy and of course for liberty. All the politicians have to do is tell the Sheeple it's to protect them from terrorists and if that doesn't work the politicians will shriek "It's for the children!" And of course the Amerikan Sheeple will swallow it whole. Works everytime.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
It's Bedtime For Democracy!
Let's just say the FBI and the NSA and "dear leader" Bush get all they want from Congress and the courts this go 'round. Then we can all sleep peacefully at night while big brother monitors all communications that go to and fro in the world (been doing it for years!). We happily traded liberty for the illusion of security as most people are so eager to do.
But wait! What if another attact occurs despite all the concerted and goodhearted efforts by our vigiliant security forces? Well of course we will need another round of legislation to permit cameras in every home, business, and public space(getting there!). Of course a federal card for everyone that will link to every action taken in your life- financial, medical, educational, penal, vocational, political, and social (already in the works!). This will be purely to catch the bad guys and no one who is honest should have anything to worry about or object. I mean you are either with us or against us, right?
As even these measures come up short in a very few years the use of mind reading devices will become mandatory in "sweeps" to purge the plotters from the pure. Then perhaps we can all really be free- free of choice that is such a burden these days! It's bedtime for democracy, sleep well comrade!
Posted by zanzzz (138 comments )
Reply Link Flag
And Bedtime for Liberty
Yes it is bedtime for democracy and of course for liberty. All the politicians have to do is tell the Sheeple it's to protect them from terrorists and if that doesn't work the politicians will shriek "It's for the children!" And of course the Amerikan Sheeple will swallow it whole. Works everytime.
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Link Flag
Mike DeWine Wants to Destroy Your Liberty
This guy has authored or voted for every fascist enabling piece of legislation brought before the Senate. He is determined to take away every bit of privacy and liberty you have. The people of Ohio should be ashamed for sending this freedom hating, liberty destroying politician to Washington.

Let him know how you feel, especially if you're from Ohio.

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://dewine.senate.gov/contactinfo.htm" target="_newWindow">http://dewine.senate.gov/contactinfo.htm</a>
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Reply Link Flag
The Republicans Want to destroy your liberty
What has happened under the guise of protecting us from the
terrorists.
Of course, Hitler, Stalin et al all had their own tactics also.
Not all that much different, just listen to the rhetoric!
Posted by Time4AChange (3 comments )
Link Flag
All but 39% are ashamed of DeWine
"The people of Ohio should be ashamed for sending this freedom hating, liberty destroying politician to Washington."

All but 39% are ashamed of him. He normally doesn't listen so we will replace him in November.
Posted by www^ (4 comments )
Link Flag
We are Embarrassed
We are mortified that Dewine still holds his office. He's an embarrassment to Ohio and we are doing everything we can do to get rid of him and his cohorts who seem bent on the disassembly of the 1st, 4th, 14th, and 15th amendments.

But it is an uphill climb; Republicans are hard rooted here, seemly blind to the steady attack on the bill of rights. They can't be spoken to, or reasoned with without becoming defensive of their Grand Old Party and it's objectives. It's amazing, I have never in my 50 years seen so many intelligent and rational people in so much denial.

But we are trying, desperately, to uproot Dewine in November. This steady march toward the nullification of the bill of right has to stop before it's way too late.
Posted by JHochstuhl (2 comments )
Link Flag
Let him try
Even without hearing this I was going to vote against this scum bag! I live and vote in OHIO and dewine is my senator for until next election!

Matt
Posted by mlinder69-21063211865664677784 (36 comments )
Link Flag
Thanks for the link, Sol...
Thanks for the link Sol999. I just sent the Senator a note of support.
Posted by R-gumption (38 comments )
Link Flag
Mike DeWine Wants to Destroy Your Liberty
This guy has authored or voted for every fascist enabling piece of legislation brought before the Senate. He is determined to take away every bit of privacy and liberty you have. The people of Ohio should be ashamed for sending this freedom hating, liberty destroying politician to Washington.

Let him know how you feel, especially if you're from Ohio.

<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://dewine.senate.gov/contactinfo.htm" target="_newWindow">http://dewine.senate.gov/contactinfo.htm</a>
Posted by Sol999 (59 comments )
Reply Link Flag
The Republicans Want to destroy your liberty
What has happened under the guise of protecting us from the
terrorists.
Of course, Hitler, Stalin et al all had their own tactics also.
Not all that much different, just listen to the rhetoric!
Posted by Time4AChange (3 comments )
Link Flag
All but 39% are ashamed of DeWine
"The people of Ohio should be ashamed for sending this freedom hating, liberty destroying politician to Washington."

All but 39% are ashamed of him. He normally doesn't listen so we will replace him in November.
Posted by www^ (4 comments )
Link Flag
We are Embarrassed
We are mortified that Dewine still holds his office. He's an embarrassment to Ohio and we are doing everything we can do to get rid of him and his cohorts who seem bent on the disassembly of the 1st, 4th, 14th, and 15th amendments.

But it is an uphill climb; Republicans are hard rooted here, seemly blind to the steady attack on the bill of rights. They can't be spoken to, or reasoned with without becoming defensive of their Grand Old Party and it's objectives. It's amazing, I have never in my 50 years seen so many intelligent and rational people in so much denial.

But we are trying, desperately, to uproot Dewine in November. This steady march toward the nullification of the bill of right has to stop before it's way too late.
Posted by JHochstuhl (2 comments )
Link Flag
Let him try
Even without hearing this I was going to vote against this scum bag! I live and vote in OHIO and dewine is my senator for until next election!

Matt
Posted by mlinder69-21063211865664677784 (36 comments )
Link Flag
Thanks for the link, Sol...
Thanks for the link Sol999. I just sent the Senator a note of support.
Posted by R-gumption (38 comments )
Link Flag
Stupid, stupid, stupid
Any terrorist with half a brain is going to encrypt their communications as a matter of course and send them through blind drops to hide their destinations. So, that only leaves the rest of us for the federal government to spy on.
Posted by dcvchigago (13 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Stupid, stupid, stupid
Any terrorist with half a brain is going to encrypt their communications as a matter of course and send them through blind drops to hide their destinations. So, that only leaves the rest of us for the federal government to spy on.
Posted by dcvchigago (13 comments )
Reply Link Flag
your mind is gonna be stuck in a web
all your secret thoughts and words are gonna be stuck in a web, and the government is gonna see you struggling to get free, and the big bad spider government is gonna spin you up in the web and have you for lunch,
Posted by Jim_bob101 (25 comments )
Reply Link Flag
 

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