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Feds take porn fight to Google
January 19, 2006 -
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December 29, 2005 -
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April 11, 2005 -
FBI adds to wiretap wish list
March 12, 2004
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Q: Will there be any political fallout?
Well, the U.S. Congress is controlled by Republicans, and the Bush administration made the request, so the political math is pretty simple. It would probably take more evidence of privacy invasion or wrongdoing for congressional Republicans to do anything substantial.
But the Democrats may. Sen. Daniel Inouye, a Democrat from Hawaii, on Thursday asked the Justice Department about this topic during a Senate hearing.
"On the Google case, what is your reaction to Google's position that (the Justice Department's request) is an invasion of their privacy?" Inouye asked. The Justice Department representative, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Laura Parsky, declined to comment.
Q: This law that the Justice Department is defending talks about "child protection." Is that related to child pornography?
No. Child pornography is already illegal, and the ACLU is not challenging that law in this case. Some of the initial news reports were wrong.
The Child Online Protection Act makes it a crime for a commercial Web site to post material that some jurors might find "harmful" if a minor stumbled across it.
That vague requirement has alarmed mainstream Web publishers and civil liberties groups, which have supported the ACLU's lawsuit. Plaintiffs in the COPA case include the American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression, Salon.com, ObGyn.net, Philadelphia Gay News and the Internet Content Coalition. Founding members of the now-defunct Internet Content Coalition included CNET Networks (publisher of News.com), Adobe, Reuters New Media, Sony Online and the New York Times.
Q: What material might be viewed as "harmful to minors?"
The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals looked into this when ruling the law was unconstitutional based on preliminary evidence (a full trial is scheduled for this fall).
The judges said that even portions of a "collection of Renaissance artwork" could be viewed as harmful to minors if a prosecutor was sufficiently zealous.
"Thus, in our opinion, the act, which proscribes publication of material harmful to minors, is not narrowly tailored to serve the government's stated purpose in protecting minors from such material," the judges said. (Click here for PDF).
Q: How long does Google have to respond to the government's motion in federal court?
In general, the defendant would have two weeks to reply and then the government would have one week for its response. This is an unusual case, however, because no hearing has been set. So the deadlines may be extended.
Q: Are my search results normally disclosed?
Yes, though generally in the context of "most popular search terms" totals. SearchEngineWatch.com has a long list of examples. Dogpile actually lets you review live search terms of the type that the Justice Department also wants to see.
See more CNET content tagged:
search engine, America Online Inc., Google Inc., request, Time Warner Inc.
However there is a search engine that actually is available on a country basis. It is called AnooX.
To be exact they are offering their search engine for Free & under an Open Source type of license to anyone around the world who wants to be an AnooX Search Engine provider in their country. So this way then all the
searches you do will stay in your own country based AnooX. You can find the details here:
http://www.anoox.com/sep-overview.jsp
However there is a search engine that actually is available on a country basis. It is called AnooX.
To be exact they are offering their search engine for Free & under an Open Source type of license to anyone around the world who wants to be an AnooX Search Engine provider in their country. So this way then all the
searches you do will stay in your own country based AnooX. You can find the details here:
http://www.anoox.com/sep-overview.jsp
This was not discussed in the article.
This was not discussed in the article.
First, there is nothing "intrusive" about the government's request. Note that they only want search terms. So, while it's true that if you entered "my name is John Smith, 123 Maple Lane, Podunkville, Nebraska, and I'm looking for instructions on how to make an atomic bomb in my kitchen", you might be in danger of being found out, but I'm guessing not many people would actually do this. Or, if they did, it could be argued that anyone so idiotic deserves to be caught, since he'll probably blow himself (along with you and the rest of Podunkville) into Kingdom Come long before he ever gets the device built.
Second, it's to note that the article continues to perpetuate the myth that cookies provide "personal" information. Cookies mainly provide SYSTEM information, such as operating system, screen resolution, browser version, whether or not you have Flash enabled, etc. The only "personal" information is demographic, in that they also show which general area of the country you're located in by displaying your ISP. Actual "personal" information, such as your name, address, social security number, credit card number, phone number, passwords, etc, is the realm of spyware, viruses, trojans, worms and keyloggers.
It's also to note that the search engines, themselves, along with ICANN and Congress, are really the ones to blame that it's come to this. Remember the proposal that all x-rated sites be placed in the ".xxx" domain category? If ICANN and the major search engines had supported Congress to enact this, along with seriously stiff penalties for those who didn't comply, the entire problem would have been resolved. The search engines would simply filter out any domains ending in ".xxx" and that's that.
And, before you cry, "But how would I get my daily porno fix?!", remember sites like AdultCheck? You'd pay a small yearly premium with a credit card, thereby proving you're 21 years or older, and there are your .xxx sites, ready for perusal.
All in all, I would call this 'much ado about nothing', and all Google is really telling the nation is that they're simply not interested in protecting children from x-rated pornography. Or, put another way, that they consider their own "ethics" to be more important than society's ethics, which shouldn't surprise anybody.
They are taking a shotgun approach to try and justify their UnConstitutional law. Google, or any of the people who use Google are not specifically targetted. They want ALL data on EVERYONE which is unreasonable and wrong.
If they have someone specific in mind then they should get a supeona concerning that person. They should not do this broad unreasonable search and espect law abiding citizens to just sit back and let it happen.
you must be purer than caesars wife. no skeletons in your closet, eh?
but whether there are or not, the gov't has no right to information that is not the genesis of "probable cause" that a crime has been committed. every law enforcement agency would love to have the right to go on fishing expeditions for crime. ever hear of the 4th amendment and due process?
submission to govt's ever reaching intrusions leads us down the path to orwellian encroachments on our valued right to privacy.
this administration is the most corrupt and disrespectful of its citizens constitutional rights since the last president who resigned from office for breaches of the constitution.
perhaps we can impeach this dolt post november elections.
it's unimaginable to me that americans can be so fearful of terror attacks that they would willingly sacrifice the protections the constitution affords its citizens from overreaching government in the name of security.
As for Mr Bolt's assertion that the .xxx domain would solve the problem, that is a non-starter. Who would get the .xxx domain for a given name - the owner of the .com, .net, .us, .org? How could this be enforced under country level domains - can (and should) the US control the rest of the world (dubya appears to think they should)? The most that could be done legally from an international standpoint is that a new .xxx.us domain name is introduced and all US based porn companies are forced to use it.
Just my 2 euro cents worth.
Stuart
Companies like Google should support such a move, it's a good way to increase their profits by providing a niche service very easily.
REally? I thought that should be parents' role in keeping their children off pornography. It's a funny thing when conservatives keep ranting about smaller government, less control but they sings a different tune when Bush administration tries to have more power & control.
Some other points,
-American kids already know about sex even before the internet ages.
-US government can't control what other countries web site decided to display
-There are more way to get x-rated flick, p2p, etc.
I applaud Google's effort to stand up on this issue
First, there is nothing "intrusive" about the government's request. Note that they only want search terms. So, while it's true that if you entered "my name is John Smith, 123 Maple Lane, Podunkville, Nebraska, and I'm looking for instructions on how to make an atomic bomb in my kitchen", you might be in danger of being found out, but I'm guessing not many people would actually do this. Or, if they did, it could be argued that anyone so idiotic deserves to be caught, since he'll probably blow himself (along with you and the rest of Podunkville) into Kingdom Come long before he ever gets the device built.
Second, it's to note that the article continues to perpetuate the myth that cookies provide "personal" information. Cookies mainly provide SYSTEM information, such as operating system, screen resolution, browser version, whether or not you have Flash enabled, etc. The only "personal" information is demographic, in that they also show which general area of the country you're located in by displaying your ISP. Actual "personal" information, such as your name, address, social security number, credit card number, phone number, passwords, etc, is the realm of spyware, viruses, trojans, worms and keyloggers.
It's also to note that the search engines, themselves, along with ICANN and Congress, are really the ones to blame that it's come to this. Remember the proposal that all x-rated sites be placed in the ".xxx" domain category? If ICANN and the major search engines had supported Congress to enact this, along with seriously stiff penalties for those who didn't comply, the entire problem would have been resolved. The search engines would simply filter out any domains ending in ".xxx" and that's that.
And, before you cry, "But how would I get my daily porno fix?!", remember sites like AdultCheck? You'd pay a small yearly premium with a credit card, thereby proving you're 21 years or older, and there are your .xxx sites, ready for perusal.
All in all, I would call this 'much ado about nothing', and all Google is really telling the nation is that they're simply not interested in protecting children from x-rated pornography. Or, put another way, that they consider their own "ethics" to be more important than society's ethics, which shouldn't surprise anybody.
They are taking a shotgun approach to try and justify their UnConstitutional law. Google, or any of the people who use Google are not specifically targetted. They want ALL data on EVERYONE which is unreasonable and wrong.
If they have someone specific in mind then they should get a supeona concerning that person. They should not do this broad unreasonable search and espect law abiding citizens to just sit back and let it happen.
you must be purer than caesars wife. no skeletons in your closet, eh?
but whether there are or not, the gov't has no right to information that is not the genesis of "probable cause" that a crime has been committed. every law enforcement agency would love to have the right to go on fishing expeditions for crime. ever hear of the 4th amendment and due process?
submission to govt's ever reaching intrusions leads us down the path to orwellian encroachments on our valued right to privacy.
this administration is the most corrupt and disrespectful of its citizens constitutional rights since the last president who resigned from office for breaches of the constitution.
perhaps we can impeach this dolt post november elections.
it's unimaginable to me that americans can be so fearful of terror attacks that they would willingly sacrifice the protections the constitution affords its citizens from overreaching government in the name of security.
As for Mr Bolt's assertion that the .xxx domain would solve the problem, that is a non-starter. Who would get the .xxx domain for a given name - the owner of the .com, .net, .us, .org? How could this be enforced under country level domains - can (and should) the US control the rest of the world (dubya appears to think they should)? The most that could be done legally from an international standpoint is that a new .xxx.us domain name is introduced and all US based porn companies are forced to use it.
Just my 2 euro cents worth.
Stuart
Companies like Google should support such a move, it's a good way to increase their profits by providing a niche service very easily.
REally? I thought that should be parents' role in keeping their children off pornography. It's a funny thing when conservatives keep ranting about smaller government, less control but they sings a different tune when Bush administration tries to have more power & control.
Some other points,
-American kids already know about sex even before the internet ages.
-US government can't control what other countries web site decided to display
-There are more way to get x-rated flick, p2p, etc.
I applaud Google's effort to stand up on this issue
What in God's name are you people doing on the internet that is so private? Are you afraid that the search term "kiddie porn" is going to lead to your house?
I'll vote for the safety of kids over and above the privacy of perverts anyday!
We've become such a country of passing our responsibilities off to others, it's no wonder people are willing to let the government come in and take over. These are the same people arguing conservative values and limited government but are willing to let government increase in size and influence at the same time. Maybe we should start punishing parents directly when their children go places they're not supposed to on the internet..NOW THAT'S AN IDEA...let's monitor their behavior and punish parents when their children go places online that are dangerous!
What do you say about Government Safety now?
Remember, Such things as the constitution are hard to write, taking much study, but easy to tear up, taking only two hands. Putting it back together is much harder.
People like you seem to say "Sure, go ahead" to tearing it bits off the constitution. Fine, if it will "Save our Children."
And then, in twenty or thirty years, the children will say "What did you save us for? For this?"
Oscar Rat
The current controversy has absolutely nothing to do with kiddie porn or with terrorists, but these are certainly important straw men that are used to influence the public.
The current controversy is about criminalizing *any Web content* that the Government considers harmful for children to view. That could include the visual arts, political opinions, science (e.g., evolution), fiction, ... virtually anything. But they've got Nathan's vote, because he's been sold a meritricious justification.
Does anybody remember when the reason for invading Iraq was weapons of mass destruction?
Bush has to be stopped.
Uninvited marketing,
Identity theft,
Electronic harrassment,
Stalking,
Political muckraking,
Blackmail,
etc, etc...
What in God's name are you people doing on the internet that is so private? Are you afraid that the search term "kiddie porn" is going to lead to your house?
I'll vote for the safety of kids over and above the privacy of perverts anyday!
We've become such a country of passing our responsibilities off to others, it's no wonder people are willing to let the government come in and take over. These are the same people arguing conservative values and limited government but are willing to let government increase in size and influence at the same time. Maybe we should start punishing parents directly when their children go places they're not supposed to on the internet..NOW THAT'S AN IDEA...let's monitor their behavior and punish parents when their children go places online that are dangerous!
What do you say about Government Safety now?
Remember, Such things as the constitution are hard to write, taking much study, but easy to tear up, taking only two hands. Putting it back together is much harder.
People like you seem to say "Sure, go ahead" to tearing it bits off the constitution. Fine, if it will "Save our Children."
And then, in twenty or thirty years, the children will say "What did you save us for? For this?"
Oscar Rat
The current controversy has absolutely nothing to do with kiddie porn or with terrorists, but these are certainly important straw men that are used to influence the public.
The current controversy is about criminalizing *any Web content* that the Government considers harmful for children to view. That could include the visual arts, political opinions, science (e.g., evolution), fiction, ... virtually anything. But they've got Nathan's vote, because he's been sold a meritricious justification.
Does anybody remember when the reason for invading Iraq was weapons of mass destruction?
Bush has to be stopped.
Uninvited marketing,
Identity theft,
Electronic harrassment,
Stalking,
Political muckraking,
Blackmail,
etc, etc...
I wonder what the government used to influence Yahoo, AOL and MSFT to turn the data over so quickly? MSFT has spent years fighting the government's challenges on its products, there must be some reason they'd cooperate with a government request without any challenge.
I wonder what the government used to influence Yahoo, AOL and MSFT to turn the data over so quickly? MSFT has spent years fighting the government's challenges on its products, there must be some reason they'd cooperate with a government request without any challenge.
What do you do? Why you do it yourselves. Where the hell did we go wrong? I'm glad there aren't any of us guys in your human Congress. I like to think rats are more honorable and ethical than that.
And of course, get even dirtier and mention it's for the benefit of children, as thought that excuse isn't used for everything.
It's always to save the children. Bullcrap.
And we're supposed to trust you. More Bullcrap.
Yeah, I look at pictures of naked rodents, so what? I'm an adult rat.
Oscar Rat
What do you do? Why you do it yourselves. Where the hell did we go wrong? I'm glad there aren't any of us guys in your human Congress. I like to think rats are more honorable and ethical than that.
And of course, get even dirtier and mention it's for the benefit of children, as thought that excuse isn't used for everything.
It's always to save the children. Bullcrap.
And we're supposed to trust you. More Bullcrap.
Yeah, I look at pictures of naked rodents, so what? I'm an adult rat.
Oscar Rat
There is no logical reason for keeping searcher tracking info or even actual searches in a database that can be subject to a supoena.
It costs less corporate $$ to only store characteristics of a search instead of the actual searches themselves. If the search engines really wanted to protect your privacy, they wouldn't keep the actual search info in the first place.
There is no logical reason for keeping searcher tracking info or even actual searches in a database that can be subject to a supoena.
It costs less corporate $$ to only store characteristics of a search instead of the actual searches themselves. If the search engines really wanted to protect your privacy, they wouldn't keep the actual search info in the first place.
That is just as it is the job of CIA & NSA to eves drop on people worldwide, and assist the US government to dominate the world, same is the job
of Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc.
So when you hear that US government has subpoenaed Google it is a Hoax to fool the people to think that Google is a champion of people and privacy, when in fact Google (and Yahoo) are in the same gang as CIA & NSA.
Now as bad as this is for the people of the USA, it is far worst for us here in Europe and elsewhere. It is high time for our so called leaders here in Europe to realize that it is extremely dangerous, it is against our national
interests, to have our "eye balls" owned by few giant US search (media) companies. It is high time for us here in Europe to have our search engines based here in Europe, in our own countries. Just as we get our news from news sources here in Germany, and other
countries in Europe, from our people in our languages, same must be the case in regard to the all important search engine information.
Just say NO to Google & Yahoo, say NO to Big Brother (CIA, NSA, US government), say YES to search engines from your countries.
That is just as it is the job of CIA & NSA to eves drop on people worldwide, and assist the US government to dominate the world, same is the job
of Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc.
So when you hear that US government has subpoenaed Google it is a Hoax to fool the people to think that Google is a champion of people and privacy, when in fact Google (and Yahoo) are in the same gang as CIA & NSA.
Now as bad as this is for the people of the USA, it is far worst for us here in Europe and elsewhere. It is high time for our so called leaders here in Europe to realize that it is extremely dangerous, it is against our national
interests, to have our "eye balls" owned by few giant US search (media) companies. It is high time for us here in Europe to have our search engines based here in Europe, in our own countries. Just as we get our news from news sources here in Germany, and other
countries in Europe, from our people in our languages, same must be the case in regard to the all important search engine information.
Just say NO to Google & Yahoo, say NO to Big Brother (CIA, NSA, US government), say YES to search engines from your countries.
Whatever happens between the Justice Dept and Google begs the overall problem of trying to reach anyone in the Google Company. Google is not a transparent company and hides behind a vast number of sites that frustrate the user until they just give up.
I submit to the Justice Dept. that Google should list People that can be reached without going crazy trying to make ones way through a jungle of sites that get you nowhere.Google is very adept at protecting it's own Privacy to sheild it's self from customer complaints regarding their botched services.
Thank you
- privacy
- by dparsonswv January 20, 2006 8:27 AM PST
- It looks like the white house has freedom of information and privacy confused. They think you are free to provide all information they want and they are free to take it at will!
- Like this Reply to this comment
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