Creative wants to make Apple pay

Creative Technology, maker of MP3 players, has indicated that it is expecting to earn royalties from rival Apple Computer.

Sim Wong Hoo, chief executive of Creative, told the BBC that he intends to "pursue aggressively" his company's U.S. patent on the navigation of music on MP3 or other audio players.

He added that Creative, which makes Zen music players, already is in talks with parties over the patent, which was awarded this August.

Related photo
Zen Vision takes on iPod

Creative's new digital media
player aims at popular iPod.

"Hopefully this will be friendly, but people have to respect intellectual property," Sim said.

Creative is planning to grab royalty money from all music player manufacturers that use the same navigation system that it has patented, he added.

Apple, which has dominated the market for MP3 players, was hit by a number of patent problems this year.

A Hong Kong-based company, for example, claimed in March that it owns patents to the digital rights management software used on the iPod. Pat-rights sought 12 percent of Apple's iPod revenue.

Microsoft, meanwhile, managed to foil Apple's attempts to patent elements of its user interface.

Jo Best of Silicon.com reported from London.

[chase.carter]

Everyone wants to be like apple

Creative is trying anything possible to get people to buy that worthless Zen. Apple is dominating the portable music industry and everyone wants a bite of apple's pie. The truth is the ipod is the best music player on the market today and everyone wants some of apple's money. Apple came up with the ipod and they deserve all the credit (money).

[markwong]

When you're on top...

When you're on top, everybody's trying to knock you down.<br /><br />Tip to Creative: if you really want a slice of Apple's pie, then create <br />something that is original and innovative yourself.

[jakec]

Not the best...

The truth is the iPod is NOT the best music player out there. The hardware is only hyped due to the great success of the companion software, iTunes. <br /><br />Let's not forget that you can't play iTunes music on any portable player besides the iPod.

[lrd123]

Amen to that!

I tried one at BestBuy and it's a piece of junk!

[Peej2K]

Its a sad day when Creative can patent a list

I mean, Creative have manage to patent a drill down list. <br />Congratulations America, another stupid, ridiculous patent that <br />shouldn't have ever been issued.

[VI Joker]

Business model.

Its the new way money is made. Patent every part of a product, then license it to others. Who needs to make the best product? All you need is a useful and need part. ;)

[rcrusoe]

Drill down list

Sounds to me like Creative could go after MS too. What's the difference between the way it's used on the iPod, and Windows Start Menu.<br /><br />As Molly (buzzreport) recently said, "Clues are going real cheap these days". Sounds like the morons at the patent office need to pony up for one.

[coffee4binky]

Oppression . . .

Throughout world history, while a patent is nice to have at first, <br />it dissolves or gets reversed-engineered, then it doesn't mean <br />anything after that.<br /><br />Creative can go ahead and attempt to sue Apple, but the end <br />result will be less innovation, not more. World history shows that <br />over and over again with humans.<br /><br />I think Creative would stand to make more money if they were to <br />talk to Apple and ask to either combine resources or make a <br />gentlemen's agreement on the issue. Same goes for Real <br />Networks' complaint in the similar vein.<br /><br />Also, the Zen burned many, many people in the early years. First <br />impressions count.

[VI Joker]

This is just wonderful

On one side I am tired of the patents used as a business model, but on the other hand Creative actually created something now they is using the patent to get money for it. I am split on this one.

[SystemsJunky]

Okay, So im "Stupid"

Because I feel I got better value out of buying a Zen Photo?<br /><br />Some of you people are pathetic.<br /><br />Have fun replacing your Batteries.<br /><br />My Zen came with two bats and to cradles. Plus I can use any software Id like. But I must be stupid for making a purchase based on choices. Sorry I didnt hail to the almighty, all powerful extremely hyped "crApple"

[open-mind]

"Creative" Use of Patent Law

Creative patented hierarchical menus that rely on meta-data to quickly access music.<br /><br />IMHO, it shouldn't be possible to patent such a simple and generic concept.

[Macsaresafer]

You're right...

And if anyone should be granted the patent, it should be Apple, <br />since it goes back to Hypercard in 1984.

[cooldogjones]

Sue Happy Businesses

It's all about the money isn't it? Creative's Sim Wong Hoo can <br />bite me. I will continue to promote the iPod to all my friends <br />and co-workers. I'm in Afghanistan, as I am an American and <br />former soldier I here and now vow never to purchase a Creative <br />product for the rest of my life. As far as I am concerned the <br />Hong Kong based company can suck it up. So what if Apple <br />products aren't sold in Hong Kong. What are they going to do? <br />If companies spent as much time on innovation as they did <br />trying to rip off people through frivolous lawsuits, they may <br />actually build/develop something worthwhile.<br /><br />"You may hope for the best, but always prepare for the worst"

[Space Ghost]

I'm with you...

This sounds like a lame attempt to cash in on the iPod's success as <br />of late... notice how they didn't file this lawsuit years ago, when the <br />iPod first came out and was attracting much less market attention.<br /><br />I've never owned a Creative product, but am a longtime Apple user <br />(20 years plus)... after reading about this frivolous lawsuit, I will <br />never purchase a Creative product.

[Oleg Simkin]

Good for them

All you apple fan boys need to shut up. Creative had a valid patent, apple stole it.(Used it without permission) DEAL WITH IT!!!!!! Also Zen is a much better products then the worthless ipod, I had one of the first ones and my battery died i had no waranty and got SCREWED. I had to buy a new mp3 player (ZEN) you know what i will have to do when the zen battery dies? Pay 20 bucks to get a new one, i will NEVER BUY ANY apple BRODUCT EVER AGAIN!

[ddesy]

No, no, no!

What are you but a Creative fanboy? Creative hasn't made anything competitive in quality since the Sound Blaster Pro.<br /><br />If you have a clue, you can change a battery in the iPod. And you can use it on something other than Windows.

[Rolndubbs]

Irony

So, when Microsoft rips off parts of Apples GUI, they are pirates and theives, yet when Apple steals rips of Creatives GUI, they are saints and being mistreated by patent law. Now I think as long as the code behind the interface is different, the patent is crap, but does anyone find it amusing that the Apple fans have been attacking MS for years for stealing Apples style of GUI(which they stole from someone else), yet defend Apple for ripping off Creatives GUI?

[Space Ghost]

What are you, like 12?

So you blame Apple because (a) you didn't bother to find out <br />that your iPod battery can be replaced and (b) you didn't bother <br />to purchase an extended warranty? <br /><br />It's entirely your choice whether or not to buy an Apple <br />product... but this lawsuit by Creative sounds totally frivolous to <br />me and the patent for a list is for something so basic to <br />computers that it probably shouldn't have been issued. Also, <br />notice how Creative waits until years after the iPod was released, <br />until it starts really making inroads into the buying public and <br />becomes profitable, and then decides it wants in on the action <br />with a frivolous lawsuit. Ridiculous! But not as ridiculous as Oleg <br />Simkin's ranting and retarded response. Oleg, wipe the foam <br />from your mouth, and step away from the computer!

[chase.carter]

?

ok, so asll you basically did id dis apple for having an amazing mp3 player that now controls most of the Digital Music player market. Apple came out with the ipod a good long while ago. Creative seemed a little slow and seemed to copy apple. Oh and "Broduct" is spelled Product.

[lrd123]

Sue Happy??

If any body should be suing someone, it should be Apple suing Microsoft for pratically coping their entire GUI! Talk about lame as workers-- MS has 1000s of them. They couldn't scratch their nuts without Steve B. showing them how to.

broduct?

Good thing apple doesn't sell broducts. By the maturity of your post I doubt you can afford quality products anyways.

[jeep4x4enthusiast]

Opinions Absent Knowledge

Most IPOD users, have never used Zen products, or any other MP3 players, but are so caught up in the CULT of Apple, that they spew opinions that are based soley on there satifaction for there IPOD, and not factual comparisons. Most Zen users have used both due to its popularity, and because its almost impossible to be around Pod people and they now show off there players. The Zen is far superior in sound quality with the earphones provided. The scroll wheel is the only thing Ipods have over most MP3 players, with there ease of use. To get decent sound from the ipod you absolutely to upgrade the earphones, and its still not going to sound better than a Zen. To match the Zen's features, you have to purchase additional products for a unit that is already more expensive. Most reviews from independent sources agree with that assesment, just google "ipod vs zen micro". With that said, most ipod users stick to the earphones provided to make sure you know they have a ipod, because its more about being part of the cult, then the music. Because of its following, even though Creative has a valid patent, and apple used it without permission, wich is stealing, they talk as though Creative is wrong. They would sing a very different Itune if it was the other way around. Apple Ipods have had lawsuits regarding quality issues with every generation of its mp3 players (i.e. cracked screens, batteries not meeting specs , etc.), there computers need repairs as often as PCs, but there faithful followers, will always report in polls no complaints. Its like a soldier in the midst of a war...they almost always say they believe what they are fighting for, because its too painful to say I'm caught up in something and its too late. Zen is a much better products then the ipod, I've had one, and hated the limitations and expense, I was so happy my daughter wanted it, so my Zen purchase made more sense economically.

[open-mind]

Creative's Next Patent

I heard Creative also got a patent on flexible pedal enclusures that utilize interlaced woven linear fibers to provide convenient metatarsal security and protection.<br /><br />Both Nike and Converse owe Creative one HELL of a lot of money.<br /><br />:-)

[nicmart]

Those who can, do...

and those who can't seek profits from patents and lawsuits.

[HBFarker]

This is ridiculous

Isn't this type of menu system on every OS and application? I'm surprised Creative hasn't tried to patent the type being displayed on the screen. I don't know which is more pathetic: Creative for thinking they can make money on this, or the Patent Office for awarding a patent on something so generic.

[Space Ghost]

I totally agree...

Creative's attempt to patent something so basic years after the iPod <br />debuted is as frivolous as the lawsuit they are now bringing in light <br />of the iPod's success.

[OS11]

iPod battery is only $20 also... shut up.

Creative has no claim on this patent, it's just sour grapes. The iPod is the best because it IS the best. Only people that don't understand quality disagree.<br /><br />Most iPod batteries work for years and years without issue, a new one is $20. So if you want to complain about your battery, go after SONY, not Apple, SONY made the battery, NOT Apple.<br /><br />Zen will be bankrupt within a few years anyway, deal with it.

[unknown unknown]

RE

"Creative has no claim on this patent, it's just sour grapes."<br /><br />Perhaps, but the law would appear to be on Creatives side at the momment.<br /><br />"The iPod is the best because it IS the best."<br /><br />I believe that's called circular reasoning.<br /><br /><br />"So if you want to complain about your battery, go after SONY, not Apple, SONY made the battery, NOT Apple."<br /><br />Who choice was it use the battery?<br /><br />"Zen will be bankrupt within a few years anyway, deal with it."<br /><br />Creative is the company that owns the Zen player.

[Space Ghost]

Keep in mind the timeline here...

Creative is awarded their patent in August of 2005...<br /><br />But Apple introduced the first iPod in October of 2001, almost 4 <br />years prior!<br /><br />I'm no lawyer, but to me it would not make sense for Creative to <br />have any claim against something Apple started producing years <br />prior to the awarding of Creative's patent.

[aabcdefghij987654321]

Problem with your timeline

The patent was *awarded* in August 2005, you must be unaware that it usually takes years to get a patent awarded which is why you'll see the words "Patent Pending" on a lot of products.<br /><br />If you want a valid timeline, find out when the patent was *applied* for, getting awarded a patent just means it's now possible to go after those who infringed on your patent before you were awarded it.<br /><br />(Note: I'm ignoring the merits of the patent here because I think it's bad patent myself, but it's important to know how the system works or you make mistakes like Space Ghost did with his timeline).

[jeep4x4enthusiast]

Knowlege of Patent Law

When you apply for a patent its not awared immediately. Also you dont have to immediately apply for a patent. MOST patents are initiated after the market bares fruit.

[darrius3365]

Re: Timeline

Yes, Creative applied for the patent in January 2001. It's first MP3 player came out in 2000. Apple applied for the same patent (which I don't understand why the iPod faithful on this group call the patent stupid) a couple of months later but was rejected because Creative applied first.

[darrius3365]

Stupid Patent?

Although I think Creative going after Apple on the patent is silly, I do have one question for those of you who think it was stupid for Creative to apply for a patent like that in the first place.<br /><br />If this patent that Creative owns isn't important, then why did Apple apply for it?

[R. U. Sirius]

Prior Art

What Creative "patented" shouldn't be a patent. The idea of hierachical menus linking to files which are wrapped in meta-data, are a long running staple of computer based interfaces, even pre-gui systems.<br /><br />The navigation aspect that makes the iPod what it is would be the scroll wheel, not the hierarchical menus.

Compete, don't complain

Creative hasn't invented anything original since the Sound Blaster. Once the world figured out that DSP chips are a comodity, creative lost it's edge. <br /><br />I have used Creative products for many years. Creative makes quality products that are affordable to the mass market. Apple makes better products that appeal to the high end consumer. Don't bash Apple becuase you have champagne taste on a beer budget.

[Musica360.com]

Get REALly CREATIVE...

I agree... maybe cry babies Creative and Real should become <br />partners....

[darrius3365]

Application is the key

I don't know too much about patent law and think Creative's possible patent war is silly, but please note that the Creative patent was APPLIED for in January 2001. That was apparently a year in advance of the first iPod.

[Llib Setag]

Apple iPod debuted in Jan. 2001 Macworld Expo

Creative jumped on board to APPLY for a patent the music list heirarchy for all mp3 players after the iPod was introduced...

[yuanchou]

Importance of patents

I am neither an Apple nor Creative fan.<br /><br />I just want to point out that patents and intellectual property protection are critical to innovation. Of course, it is debatable whether the Creative patent is too obvious and should not have been granted. But given that the patent was granted by the US Patent Office, it is logical for Creative to enforce the patent and monetize it.<br /><br />Imagine a world without intellectual property protection and Creative or Sony are allowed to sell exact replicas of the iPod ...

[Jonathan]

Patenting the file browser basically

It?s asinine. What next? Patenting the steering wheel on a car? I fully expect Apple to go balls to the walls against this.

[shanewalker]

Creative should talk...have you seen their latest player?

Funny, their new 'Vision:M' looks VERY much like a cross between <br />an iPod Photo (see the INTERFACE) and a color skinned iPOD Mini. <br />Accident...not a chance in hell.<br /><br />The nerve. The Chinese tech companies don't innovate...they rip <br />other innovations apart, reverse engineer, repackage and mass <br />produce.

Your kidding me?

Someone in Latvia patented the right hand for whiping posteriors with paper like squares. It's only a matter of time before we all have to start paying a percentage to be able to utilize this aforementioned apparatus.

Dr. Sbaitso's lament?

Watch out everyone...we all know the important milestones Creative has amassed to the industry over the years. I mean, Dr. Sbaitso was shear brilliance :)

[darrius3365]

Re:

I am not arguing whether or not a patent shouldn't have been rewarded. I don't care about that.<br /><br />Why I am saying is that people want to bash Creative for applying for a patent so something so "vague and basic", yet Apple applied for the same thing.

[jbelkin]

Win Patent - Lose Trade Dress Lawsuit

With our legal system, anything is possible so I cannot speak of the merits of Creative's "patent" but why then release a new player that will surely get you sued by Apple for "trademark dress (appearance confusion)." Their new Mp3/WMA/video players would not pass any "common sense" test in regards to confusing consumers.<br /><br />***?

[comgraph]

good one take a bite out of the apple

take a bite out of the apple.they have the worse cs on the planet