December 12, 2003 2:20 PM PST

Canada deems P2P downloading legal

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Downloading copyrighted music from peer-to-peer networks is legal in Canada, although uploading files is not, Canadian copyright regulators said in a ruling released Friday.

In the same decision, the Copyright Board of Canada imposed a government fee of as much as $25 on iPod-like MP3 players, putting the devices in the same category as audio tapes and blank CDs. The money collected from levies on "recording mediums" goes into a fund to pay musicians and songwriters for revenues lost from consumers' personal copying. Manufacturers are responsible for paying the fees and often pass the cost on to consumers.

The peer-to-peer component of the decision was prompted by questions from consumer and entertainment groups about ambiguous elements of Canadian law. Previously, most analysts had said uploading was illegal but that downloading for personal use might be allowed.

"As far as computer hard drives are concerned, we say that for the time being, it is still legal," said Claude Majeau, secretary general of the Copyright Board.

The decision is likely to ruffle feathers on many sides, from consumer-electronics sellers worried about declining sales to international entertainment companies worried about the spread of peer-to-peer networks.

Copyright holder groups such as the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) had already been critical of Canada's copyright laws, in large part because the country has not instituted provisions similar to those found in the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act. One portion of that law makes it illegal to break, or to distribute tools for breaking, digital copy protection mechanisms, such as the technology used to protect DVDs from piracy.

A lawyer for the Canadian record industry's trade association said the group still believed downloading was illegal, despite the decision.

"Our position is that under Canadian law, downloading is also prohibited," said Richard Pfohl, general counsel for the Canadian Recording Industry Association. "This is the opinion of the Copyright Board, but Canadian courts will decide this issue."

In its decision Friday, the Copyright Board said uploading or distributing copyrighted works online appeared to be prohibited under current Canadian law.

However, the country's copyright law does allow making a copy for personal use and does not address the source of that copy or whether the original has to be an authorized or noninfringing version, the board said.

Under those laws, certain media are designated as appropriate for making personal copies of music, and producers pay a per-unit fee into a pool designed to compensate musicians and songwriters. Most audio tapes and CDs, and now MP3 players, are included in that category. Other mediums, such as DVDs, are not deemed appropriate for personal copying.

Computer hard drives have never been reviewed under that provision, however. In its decision Friday, the board decided to allow personal copies on a hard drive until a fee ruling is made specifically on that medium or until the courts or legislature tell regulators to rule otherwise.

"Until such time, as a decision is made on hard drives, for the time being, (we are ruling) in favor of consumers," Majeau said.

Legal analysts said that courts would likely rule on the file-swapping issue later, despite Friday's opinion.

"I think it is pretty significant," Michael Geist, a law professor at the University of Ottawa, said. "It's not that the issue is resolved...I think that sooner or later, courts will sound off on the issue. But one thing they will take into consideration is the Copyright Board ruling."

Friday's decision will also impose a substantial surcharge on hard drive-based music players such as Apple Computer's iPod or the new Samsung Napster player for the first time. MP3 players with up to 10GB of memory will have an added levy of $15 added to their price, while larger players will see $25 added on top of the wholesale price.

MP3 players with less than 1GB of memory will have only a $2 surcharge added to their cost.

With a population of about 31 million people, Canada is approximately one-tenth the size of the United States. But Canadians are relatively heavy users of high-speed Internet connections, which make it easy to download music files. About 4.1 million Canadians were using a broadband connection at home as of the end of June 2003, according to U.K.-based research firm Point Topic. By comparison, U.S. cable and DSL (digital subscriber line) subscribers totaled 22.7 million at the end of September, according to Leichtman Research Group.

Canada has already raised the hackles of some copyright holders through its reluctance to enact measures that significantly expand digital copyright protection, as the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) has done in the United States. As a result, Canada could become a model for countries seeking to find a balance between protecting copyright holders' rights and providing consumers with more liberal rights to copyrighted works. For now, it remains unclear how other countries might be influenced by Friday's ruling.

Geist said he believes the tariff decision could be just the tip of the iceberg for hardware makers, as Canadian regulators grapple with the full implications of the policy. Other devices, including PCs, may eventually be brought under the tariff scheme, he predicted.

"Given that they've made a strong stand on (peer-to-peer matters), if the policy remains the same, there's little choice but to move ahead on personal computers," Geist said.

However, a representative of the Canadian Private Copying Collective (CPCC), the group of music copyright holders that typically petitions for new media types to be added to the list, said computers were not on its agenda.

"We have never sought a levy on computer hard drives and do not intend to do so in the future," Lucie Beaucheni, vice chair of the CPCC, said.

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loser money grubbing bands and artist's
I download and share all kinds of files mostly tv shows I think p2p should be completly legal even if its not I dont care I'll download all the same.bands should NOT make as much money as they do they should tour for money i work for my money they should too. residual income is a joke and should'nt be allowed. bands should not be allowed to charge people for disc's or mp3 players who the hell do they think they are. what if i dont use disc's for music or movies they should make make one profit off they're cd and keep working/touring for more. they DO NOT need that much money no one does.I work my a$$ off for 17.50 an hour i will not slave for an hour to buy a cd in fact i will never again buy a cd if a band wants my money they can come here to play live and get it, i go to concerts all the time but rarely see some bands that i actually want to see and most dont even come here who the goes to a province and plays towns? NOBODY. cause they think "well if that person who live's 500 kilometers from the city cant afford to take time off work an waste ten hours driving to and from the city than they dont deserve a concert" and more than likely have to rent a motel. how much do they THINK they are worth.

bottom line is if they want $$$ they should tour for it not sell cd's cd money should go to the poor minimum wage bastards who work at the factory that made the cd it self.
Posted by ki11bot (1 comment )
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holy sh... so that was 2003 eh? I fear canadas privcy laws now.
alittle bash on the last comment poster. While I feel somewhat sort of the same, put your shoes in their postion, what if you love being in arist? (although I'd admit being an artist is not a real job, so I'm pretty pissed off that they make so much money doing that) some of them do it for the pashion of it all. really it is the big croperate bastards of you should focus your hate towards, as their making most of the money MARKETING ART. how redicous as that? and they have the balls to take away from the artist at times like these


but thats what I'm not here for... I was goning to voice my concern on that law. There are HUGE talks in changing that law. What they don't nkow know unlike america is collect IP adress of ppl DLing music and vids. Know in canada, thanks to the americans DMCA inforement on candian laws (BASTARDS, try running your own ******* conutry first!) its a very possableily that it is going to be legal.

commbaine this with their inforcement of the law and it possabily passing, canadas going to be in serious troble. it WILL backlash the emcomy if it passes- turst me, some laws are better left broken in some contries, democarcy is mearly a flashy word- its nonexestant.
Posted by 3vilone (9 comments )
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amen to that
Posted by bonooo00000 (1 comment )
Link Flag
I totally agree with you. I've been thinking on and on about this kind of stuff. I even had an exam on it, i basically said everything you said.

Keep it up,

Music SHOULD should be legal in Canada. U.S and Canada are two different countries. Artists make a good worths year a pay. They CAN'T make us pay just because we want to download a song. What if we like 1 or 2 songs? Why pay $25 for two songs?
Posted by Cam94 (1 comment )
Link Flag
Very interesting comment. You're missing a very big point here. What if it was you who invented something... not any different than writing and creating music (which I assume you enjoy listening to)... once you've invested many years and countless hours of work and toil to perfect your craft with not one cent paid to help you (that's less than some poor minimum wage bastard who works at the factory that made the cd itself) ... and you sacrifice everything to make this music with no guarantees that you'll survive - then you enter into the world of distribution...

You pound pavement and knock on doors only to have thousands slammed in your face... because you believe in your creation... you slug it out... and after a long time might catch a break... so what if you happen to be fortunate enough to find someone to distribute your product? Well now, they (the record companies) take you into debt to record your record (or manufacture your invention) for you... but you have to recoup every single red cent they've invested in that before you see a single penny. (Very few artists recoup because of how deals get structured and because people like yourself don't buy product anymore)...

NOW, you've got to make a living so you have to tour... which can be fun, but unless you're fortunate enough to have something take off right away you have to invest many years of building up a fan base live... this isn't a bad thing at all but it's your only source of income as you're still many many thousands of dollars in debt to your record company/distributor depending on the type of deal you have to get your product out there...

The amount of hours a musician will put into trying to make a meager living blows any job out of the water... yet you enjoy the music and probably can afford to help out and support a band or artist you love to listen to... but won't. Bands and musicians are people just like you trying to make a living and support their families, spouses, and put food on the table... trust me if your 'invention' really took off and someone got in YOUR face and told you that if you wanted money you'd better get off your butt and start traveling and entertaining people like themselves - by the way it takes years for your favourite band to get their live tour honorariums up to an amount where they see any money as well... after management fees, booking agent fees, and dealing with promoters, travel expenses like gas, gear, hotels - should I go on? ...most musicians that you love work just as hard if not more than you do but couldn't even afford to take you out for dinner...

You should at least show some class and respect for music that you enjoy at the expense of that band or person's sacrifice... not everyone lives in the lap of luxury... very few do indeed...

That's my 2 cents... there's so much more that you and many others don't know about the very music you love... residual income can keep food on the table... big residual money can change lives but very few see that... in this day and age less so every day... by the way, that invention of yours that you worked so hard on? Want to see money from it? Well who do you think you are to be entitled to that money? After all, it's all a big joke now isn't it?
Posted by richmooremusic (1 comment )
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i agree with richmooremusic. Except that on a $20 CD for music, about $2 or so actually goes to the artist. The rest is for the record company, marketing, shipping, and everything else that they tack onto the price. I dont believe that in this age, we should have to pay that, especially since most minimum wage jobs you would have to work for 2 and a half hours to buy a single CD, thats ridiculous. Instead, if you download the artists music, then send a sum of money that you deem fit for their music, they will make more money than going through record labels, and the person wont have to pay over $20 for a CD. This has been proven to work, with Radiohead's "In Rainbows" album being released online for anyonw to download and pay what they feel it is deserved.

In this day and age with the internet, and the size of hard drives now, there is almost no need for CD's and DVD's. For those that know how to use other transferring mediums, like flash drives, or online, this works very well. I just dont believe in record labels taking most of the profits and leaving the artists that produce good music with only a fraction of what people are paying for.
Posted by fairFS (1 comment )
Link Flag
its really stupid :( its a huge money grab !!!!
you should check out the copy right law a band called "Negitive Land" made it sates you can do any thing with ther music only if its not in a commercal activity :)

youtube it !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by loco_ROCKO (1 comment )
Link Flag
I agree with you totally! If they are so uptight about it then why is it that it isn't illegal to listen to the radio and record it on either cd or cassette? or why create the PVR so we can record TV or the DVD recorder? P2P should be completely legal as you said. we are all just basically being our own radio DJ offering our own library to the world except we are not doing it over the air waves we are using the internet. I will also never, never buy a CD again because of my income as well.
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I think so..
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Posted by tarzimbu (3 comments )
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simply put - fees on mp3 devices and writable media that go into a pool are not distributed with much rhyme or reason. Tracking by socan to decide who gets the money may be done every couple of months at random - there's no remotely fair distribution of these funds to the artists.

2ndly - to our first poster saying that musical artistry isn't a real job? I suggest you travel a little and expand your horizons... visit some countries that have thousands of years of culture and art - versus canada with 300-400 years of culture and art apart from the small native population.

3rd - entertainment is and always has been a business. Of course in North America we seem to have little or no respect for any musicians and actors except those who the media celebrates as the cream of the crop. Anyone who works hard to master an instrument (it takes years), create a style, write music, promote it, front money for gear (thousands if not more dollars), and tour - they're running a legitimate business and do deserve some payback for their work. Money that comes in off shows is pittance. Even for the big bands ticket master takes the big prize off their shows and the record company takes the big money from their cd sales.

Musicians work their ass off for what they do. I work my ass off harder for music than I worked my ass off for some good change at one of my past jobs and for much less in return with music. But at least it's something I love.

If you like an artist - support them. They worked hard to bring you that product and they're already being gouged by the record companies and ticket master. If you're listening to their music - you're using their product - support them - especially the indie bands.

www.myspace.com/sympatheticrage
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Posted by sympatheticrage (2 comments )
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"there's no remotely fair distribution of these funds to the artists." - slightly miss spoken on this point however the monitoring and distribution is far from consistent and tends to work more in favor of larger artists backed by major labels who can essentially pay the radio station to play their music to get credit from socan... *so the conspiracy theory goes*
Posted by sympatheticrage (2 comments )
Link Flag
Many are boycotting the RIAA. For suing people over this. You could tape your music on cassettes, you could tape movies to video, now they refuse to allow people DL? No way. I will continue along with millions in other countries to NOT buy any music or movies until they STOP. End of story.

You will always have those that buy and those that "borrow" but when you go around suing people or if you have their ISP's drop them due to downloads you (the RIAA &#38; artists) screw yourselves as then Millions stop buying anything. Welcome to the free world.
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I myself realizing unfortunately others won't do it, so in the end, the artists, movies, music, whatever art form they create, do lose a lot of money, simply buy anything I truly enjoy after I've viewed them or listened to them. I have downloaded many movies and have then gone out and purchased them even though I have them, to support the artists. That way I know that I'm supporting the type of things I enjoy, so that they will be able to continue making those things. If they make no money, then a lot of art won't ever reach the masses. Music wise, I find it hard, I do buy some, but am very stuck on the problem of one or two songs on a CD that I listen to, it's usually only one song. They want a lot of money for one song, the CD takes up space and I find it hard to support the whole, sell CD's with a song or two, and fill it up with junk. I have found some that I enjoy the whole album, so I'll purchase it, or if it's available to buy as a download will do that, as I have way to many discs around to store as is. If they let you buy them by the song, I would pay for that, perhaps that way they may get the picture that they are wasting them time with CD's full of filler. I am very curious if anyone knows what the Canadian laws are on downloading/uploading, I hear of people in the states being made examples of, but am not sure what is going on in Canada. How do they get a warrant to look at what you are down or uploading to even charge you? Can't seem to find exactly what the laws are, and know very well, saying look I bought these because I liked them, won't mean a thing to our court system. I had a friend wrongly accused, he is out now, and wasn't guilty, but because he had nobody that could have him live with them, part of the bail requirements, he sat in jail for months. I unfortunately am a renter, and with the two of us already here, in a one bedroom, it would have been very cramped, and the lease does not allow for anyone else to stay here for longer then a week. I was legally incapable of helping him. His family is out of province, so he got to rot in jail, an innocent man, as he hadn't been proven guilty, and of course he wasn't and it was dropped and he is out. So many things went wrong, he is deaf, I had to speak to the justice of the peace on record about not having a person to sign for the court. Even then only twice out of about 7 court dates, did he get a translator. I have no trust for our justice system at this point, and would really like to know the laws on downloading/uploading to avoid any contact at all with the justice system. It's sad, I have no criminal record, I used to trust the police etc.., but now I can't trust them at all. The police even lied to me, and guess who I complained to, a police officer, that is the complaint department, since the Harris government removed the one we used to have that was separate from the system. Anyways, that was a useless conversation, and I am going on far too long. If anyone knows of the Canadian laws on how and why they would be able to find out what one is up or downloading please let me know. Thanks
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Posted by izmir-evden-eve (1 comment )
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does anyone know wether it is still legal over there? anyway im in the uk but looking to move to canada and i am one of those people who really likes to download...a lot! i just which music artists would stop pissing about in money and then complaing when someone doesnt give them 79p... makes no sense to me! anyone else feel the same?
Posted by deathshells (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
@ Deathshells:
Yes, it is still legal to download, still illegal to upload.

My issue with the whole thing is this, why and when was it decided that artists should be so (in most cases) obsenely wealthy? Give me some good reasons why wealth makes their music or acting any better than if they earned what "regular people" earned and didn't have dozens of millions sitting in their bank accounts.

And no, a lot of them don't "work very hard" for their money. They have other people writing their music, other people advertising their band, other people organizing their merchandise and tours, other people to do everything for them except appear on stage and wipe their *****. So the "artists" (though they don't do much in the whole art process) are just there to look pretty, and yet those people who are nothing but mannequins are raking in several millions of dollars a year.

I'll download happily, if I really like something, I'll go out and buy it. But otherwise not bother.

As well, there's the whole issue of things that are available on p2p download that aren't easily, if at all, available to the public. For example the Redwall series I can't find in any stores, and had to turn to downloading for access. Where's the ethics in that? I really like the Redwall series, and would gladly buy it if I could, but I can't. Does that mean that I'm just not allowed to ever watch something I really like again?
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Cam Balkon kapatma sistemleri estetik bütünlü?ü ve fonksiyonelli?i mükemmel ?ekilde birle?tirir. Yap?ya ve zevklerinize uygun renk seçenekleri sunmas?n?n an? s?ra, son derece kullan??l? ve dayan?kl?d?r. Sistemde kullan?lan alüminyum profillerin boyas? elektrostatik toz f?r?n boya olup, deformasyona dayan?kl? ve uzun ömürlüdür
Cam Balkon kapama sistemlerinde kullan?lan tüm camlar temperli (security) cam olup darbe dayan?m? maksimuma ç?kart?lm?? ve dolay?s? ile k?r?lma riski en dü?ük seviyeye indirgenmi?tir. Temperli cam k?r?ld??? zaman zar büyüklü?ünde çok küçük ve daha az keskin parçalara ayr?larak yaralama riski azalt?r. Sistemde kullan?lan camlarda istenildi?i renkli cam alternatiflerimiz mevcuttur.
Cam Balkon Kapama Sistemlerinde kullan?lan alüminyum profillerin boyas? elektrostatik toz f?r?n boya olup, deformasyona dayan?kl? ve uzun ömürlüdür. Di?er ekipmanlarda dünyan?n ve Türkiye'nin önde gelen üreticilerinin ürünleri olup ulusal ve uluslararas? standartlara sahiptir.
Cam Balkon Kapama; binan?za estetik, fonksiyonelli?in yan?nda de?erde katar. http://www.megacambalkon.com
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