August 7, 2006 12:11 PM PDT

Apple shows Leopard's spots

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Leopard, Power Macs expected at Apple confab

August 7, 2006
SAN FRANCISCO--Apple Computer on Monday introduced the Mac Pro, the company's first Intel-based professional desktop, and also gave developers a preview of Leopard, the next version of Mac OS X.

CEO Steve Jobs showed off the shiny metal desktop, which will start shipping immediately, as he kicked off the Worldwide Developers Conference here.

Apple's harvest

The Mac Pro offers a similar casing to the Power Mac G5 that preceded it, but it replaces the older PowerPC processors with two dual-core Intel Xeon chips, as well as space for two optical disc drives and up to four hard drives. The standard $2,499 configuration includes 1GB of memory, an Nvidia GeForce 7300 GT graphics card, a 250GB hard drive and a SuperDrive that can burn CDs and DVDs.

"Today, the Power Mac is going to fade into history," said Jobs, wearing his trademark black mock turtleneck and blue jeans. At several points, Jobs handed off keynote duties to several lieutenants, including Senior Vice President Philip Schiller, who showed off the Mac Pro.

Apple didn't offer a full look at Leopard but instead showed off a top-10 list of new features the operating system is set to sport upon debuting next spring. Among the features Jobs showed off are a Time Machine option that automatically backs up a Mac. Other features include enhanced videoconferencing options, improved Mail and the inclusion of the Front Row media software and PhotoBooth picture-taking programs that previously have been available on only new Macs. (To see CNET Reviews' first take on the Leopard preview, click here.)

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Video: A look at the Mac Pro
Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of worldwide product marketing, shows off the new Mac Pro based on Intel's Xeon 5100 processor.

To take advantage of Time Machine, users need a second hard drive. The software records a copy of every change made to a file, which required Apple to add extensions to Leopard's file system, Brian Croll, director of Mac OS X development, said in an interview following Jobs' keynote. Users can virtually "fly" back through time by scrolling through different windows that represent days, looking for the file they need while appearing to travel into a black hole.

Several improvements to the iChat text and multimedia conferencing software were also shown. Consumers will be able to add backdrops behind themselves, making it look like they were being interviewed for a cable news program. Those backdrops can also include video. Schiller drew perhaps the biggest laughs of the day as he pretended to ride a roller coaster while video conferencing off-stage with Jobs.

Familiar applications such as Mail, Dashboard and Spotlight will also be improved in Leopard, Jobs said. Mail users will be able to personalize e-mail messages with photos and create to-do lists from their e-mail. Custom widgets can be created with Web Clip, which can take information from any regularly updated Web page and display it as a widget in Dashboard. And Spotlight will now allow Mac users to search for files across their networks and on workgroup servers.

Jabs at Microsoft
Jobs led the attendees back through the major enhancements to the Mac OS X operating system, including the most recent version, Mac OS X 10.4, which is code-named Tiger. "This is what we've been doing for the past five years. What has our competitor been doing for the past five years?" he asked in one of many jabs at Microsoft, which has been working to ready the oft-delayed Windows Vista, the first completely new version since Windows XP debuted in October 2001.

In addition to the Mac Pro, Apple also introduced its first Intel-based Xserve server, also sporting two dual-core Xeon chips. A sample configuration with two 2GHz Xeons, 1GB of memory and a single 80GB Serial ATA hard drive sells for $2,999.

Apple has added several nice features in Leopard, especially with the Time Machine backup software, said Bob O'Donnell, an analyst at IDC. But the fact that Apple won't ship the update until next spring is disappointing, in light of Microsoft's Vista delays, he said.

"They had a huge, gaping window of opportunity if they could ship this fall," O'Donnell said. Apple did ship a major update to Mac OS X this year, with porting of Tiger to Intel's processors, and maybe it wasn't realistic to get Leopard out any sooner. But now there's "a good chance" that Leopard won't ship until after Vista, he said.

Apple had previously said it would ship Leopard by the end of this year or the beginning of next. Microsoft has said it will deliver the consumer version of Vista in January, but many industry analysts would not be surprised by another delay.

Apple also didn't mention anything about new hardware with Intel's Core 2 Duo chips, which were unveiled a few weeks ago. Some PC companies have already started shipping systems based on the Core Extreme processor and have talked about their plans for notebooks using Merom, the notebook version of the Core 2 Duo. Merom systems aren't expected to become available until later this month.

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Steve Jobs, videoconferencing, Time Machine, Spotlight, senior vice president


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Not a competitor
Microsoft is not Apples competitor. Apple is as much a competitor to Microsoft as Lexus is to a Kia.

What has Microsoft been doing for the past five years? XP, XP SP1/2, the Xbox, then the 360, three updates to the SmartPhone/PocketPC OS, two new versions of an office suite (one WITH a spreadsheet program), 64-bit XP, a couple of new Windows Media Players, and a dozen other projects.
Posted by sanenazok (3449 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Prepare for incoming!
Posted by mcthingy2 (64 comments )
Link Flag
MS Doesn't Market Updates as Well as Apple
Microsoft's marketing plan has a significant flaw: while SP1 and SP2 added significant functionality to Windows XP (and other add-ons like Windows Media Connect), people view XP as XP as XP. Apple, on the other hand, gives version numbers and names to their OS and feature updates -- 10.4, 10.5, Panther, Tiger, etc. The sense of change is tangible. While they're different OSes, an SP in the Windows world is often similar in scope to a 10.x version upgrade in OS X.

MS has done plenty to update XP in the last 5 years, but the average user still thinks of XP as the same OS that was launched in 2001 and MS bears the blame for that. Additionalyl, Apple's versioning has allowed them to charge for every 10.x update, something I'm sure MS wishes they could pull off, but charging for something labeled as a service pack doesn't fly.

When Steve Balmer recently announced that 5 years is too long to wait between OS versions, he was stating the obvious. The question is, will MS change their branding/marketing strategy to push service packs and major component additions as new versions or will they radically change the pace of development at MS? I think the former is the likely answer. Look at how MS is marketing (and charging for) Windows 2003 Server R2 as a separate product when it's really an add-on pack of features that some shops need and others don't (at least it's optional). I think this is more of what we'll see from MS in the future.

-Mister Winky
Posted by Mister Winky (301 comments )
Link Flag
I agree
But don't try convicing Apple fanboys about that. They are convinced that a few programs and patches are the same as a new version. Most people do forget 64-bit XP, Windows XP Media Center, and Windows XP Tablet; these offer just as much upgrade as the usual Apple offering. Steve is laughing all the way to the bank; Tiger their best selling software produce ever. Wow.

But they have done well with their new Mac Pro. Dual drives at last, and real expandability without having external hard drives. I might even consider buying one...
Posted by Andrew J Glina (1673 comments )
Link Flag
And even more, Apple is the best thing to happen to Microsoft. Apple users are more frequently Office users than PC users are. And since Apple piracy is lower than PC's it is rumored that Microsoft makes more money on each Apple sale than on each PC.
That's not to say that Microsoft is happy seeing Apple grow (a strong company COULD become a real competitor) but as it is it doesn't hurt Microsoft numbers a bit.
Posted by herby67 (144 comments )
Link Flag
Oh, and don't forget...
The sizzling products that Microsoft has created to compete with
the iPod and iTunes. They have been busy elves.
Posted by nicmart (1829 comments )
Link Flag
What Microsoft has shipped in the past five years...
Well, lots... XP Media Center Edition, XP Tablet PC Edition, XP SP1, XP SP2, XP 64-bit, Several Windows 2000 Server service packs, Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 64-bit edition. Windows Compute Cluster 2003, and Several versions of Windows smartphone OS. Not to mention new versions of Office, Visual Studio, .Net, SQL Server, Small Business server, Virtual PC, XBOX and XBOX 360, SMS 2003(which was a big hit with the enterprise), and the list goes on and on...
Posted by Neuro-mancer (4 comments )
Link Flag
I want one sooo bad.. What I thought was funny is how apple is actually cheaper then dell now.. ;-P
Posted by nzamparello (60 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Nice Price
I went to the Dell website and priced the server out at $2547. That's with Windows and all the other stuff. With SuSe, it's less than $2000. Even though the Dell is cheaper, it comes with a three year warranty to Apple's 1 year. At least the Apple server doesn't have a battery to replace, since you know that it would go 1 1/2 years into use. I wonder if it stains.

Pretty graphics can lie...
Posted by sanenazok (3449 comments )
Link Flag
Reuters: "Apple computer announcements disappoint investors"
"Shares in Apple fell more than 2 percent as investors had been hoping Chief Executive Steve Jobs would unveil his trademark surprise at Apple's annual software developers conference, such as a new iPod music player or a new digital movie rental service."

<a class="jive-link-external" href=";storyID=2006-08-07T200530Z_01_N07373295_RTRIDST_0_TECH-APPLE-UPDATE-2.XML&#38;rpc=66&#38;type=qcna" target="_newWindow">;storyID=2006-08-07T200530Z_01_N07373295_RTRIDST_0_TECH-APPLE-UPDATE-2.XML&#38;rpc=66&#38;type=qcna</a>
Posted by john55440 (1020 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Just an interpretation
I think it was profit-taking. There has been a speculative rise in Apple's stock, from around 50 to near 70, in the last two weeks. Unless Apple announced the Second Coming this morning, there was going to be some sell-off. Not much, as it turns out.
Posted by swift2--2008 (197 comments )
Link Flag
Boo hoo
because, as we all know, surprising investors is the most
important thing. Surely you can do better than that.

These things -- like the new iPod or digital movie rental service
-- are coming. It's just better to make an announcement for
these things some other time (i.e. not at a conference for Mac
software developers). Besides, Apple will get new rounds of
stories later rather than putting all in one day. Today news was
Leopard and the completion of the switch to Intel.

Besides, even with the "huge" 1.6% drop today (a whole $1.09),
Apple is still up $16 from the middle of last month.

Articles that claim to capture the mood of investors based on a
quote or two from analysts are really dumb. Millions of shares
changed hands. For every seller, there was a buyer. Yet,
somehow, this article claims to read the minds of all investors.
Posted by Thrudheim (306 comments )
Link Flag
Looks like a poker game to me.
Bob O'Donnell, analyst at IDC says: "They had a huge, gaping
window of opportunity if they could ship this fall...Apple did ship
a major update to Mac OS X this year, with porting of Tiger to
Intel's processors, and maybe it wasn't realistic to get Leopard
out any sooner. But now there's "a good chance" that Leopard
won't ship until after Vista"

I'm kind of in the fence about that "window of opportunity." On
the surface, it would seem that if Apple were to ship Leopard
before Vista, they would have bragging rights for getting it's
latest and greatest technologies out in rather smooth fashion
compared to Microsoft's Vista with it's ongoing tales of woe
about getting a working production version ready for mass
consumption. I'm just not sure if it's that big of an advantage.

On the other hand, Microsoft is quite renown for shipping
horribly buggy version 1.0 products, and Microsoft is said to be
gearing up for a massive Vista ad campaign to pimp it's still
struggling OS. If Vista hits the stores and proves to be another
typical version 1.0 Microsoft product, customer disaffection
combined with a perceived failure of Vista to meet all of the
promises and hype from the ad campaign could prove to the
"perfect storm" for Apple. It could release Leopard with it's "top
secret" features no longer secret and the "it just works" OS X
reputation of OS X could position Apple as saviour for
disenfranchised and angry early Vista adopters and position
itself as the must have OS for day to day use.

And if Leopard's "top secret" features are in fact technologically
far and away superior to what Vista offers when it's finally
released, Apple, by releasing Leopard after Vista, can potentially
render Vista obsolete virtually overnight in one fell swoop. One
thing is for sure. MS has shown all of Vista's cards and they are,
face up on the table. Apple has elected not to show all of
Leopard's cards yet, and in this little poker game, MS is now at a
distinct disadvantage.

Unless MS changes it's mind again and decides to postpone
Vista yet again until, say, 2008...or thereabouts. lol.
Posted by Terry Murphy (82 comments )
Reply Link Flag
I am not too hung up about this "window of opportunity" either.
Tiger already has the big items that Microsoft is promoting in
Vista. Although putting out Leopard before the holidays would
have heightened the impression of Apple moving quickly while
Microsoft plods along, the reality is that most people aren't
going to buy Vista for quite some time (probably when they get
a new machine). Having Leopard ship about the same time Vista
ships is fine.

I hope the secret features include major Finder revisions.
Posted by Thrudheim (306 comments )
Link Flag
You make an Excellent comment
I was surprised when I heard ANY negative implications about a
release data for Leopard. We have seen, in less than a year, a
COMPLETE transistion, with updates, and small improvements to
the existing product.

Im pretty much flabbergasted that some idiot analyst would
think there was a major/new OS release while they are delivering
on something that a few months ago they said was "not likely",
"impossible", "dangerous" etc. They exceeded any and all
expectations of these same analysts.

Come to think of it. Should ANYONE be listening to an "analyst"
when it comes to Apple or Jobs?!
Posted by Thomas, David (1947 comments )
Link Flag
Core 2 Duo - Woodcrest
I'm confused. I thought Woodcrest (the processor in the new Mac
Pro) was one of the Core 2 Duo line???
Posted by dscottbuch (14 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It is Core 2 Duo
Core 2 Duo for Laptops is Merom
Core 2 Duo for Desktops is Conroe
Core 2 Duo for Workstations/Servers is Woodcrest (official name is
Xeon 5100)
Posted by bommai (172 comments )
Link Flag
A little tamed presentation.
Although some of Leopard's new features; Time Machine, Spaces
Bootcamp, Spotlight, new ICHAT look very promising and I'd
probably buy Leopard based on those. Some of the other
features are pretty tame and seemingly just regular software

The Keynote was also pretty tame but what seriously stole the
show was the new MAC PRO. That machine is going to sell like
hotcakes.. well atleast to the high end user. Can't wait to try out
AUTOCAD and STUDIO MAX on this machine as well as FINAL
CUT &#38; MAYA. It going to fly..

But all in all I'm still sold on Leopard.. just wondering why Steve
didn't take full control of the Keynote? No offense to Bertrand
Serlet, Phil Schiller or Scott Forstall but they need to sharpen
their presentation skills a tad. They seem like Microsoft

Either way still the keynote was still drool worthyb although it
would have been great if Adobe demoed a full native intel
version of Adobe Creative Suite that would've added to the
Posted by ServedUp (413 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You're forgetting
This is not an iPod show, it's for developers. And as soon as the Merom chip appears in sufficient number, hello Mac Book Pro II!

I was a little let down, though, that I didn't have any little software trinket to download at the end of proceedings.
Posted by swift2--2008 (197 comments )
Reply Link Flag
More announcements will trickle out
Good point about this event being for Macintosh developers, not
general consumers. Look to the upcoming MacWorld Paris for new
iPod and digital entertainment products. Also, it appears to be
Apple's current practice to make major product announcements
outside of organized events.
Posted by CBSTV (780 comments )
Link Flag
Was there applause?
Actually, what really matters is if the audience was satisfied or
not. As mentioned, the audience were developers who really
could benefit from a much faster Intel-based Mac that BTW is
much more expandable. The problem is that people expect
Keynotes to be something to talk about for months.
Posted by baquiano (18 comments )
Reply Link Flag
disappointed by Leopard. Excited by Mac PRO
I have to admit to feeling a little let down by Apple. Being a self
proclaimed Mac affeccionado, I have to admit that my standards
are probably high. I did see things in Leopard that I liked, such
as time machine. Other things seemed a little like window
I was frustrated by Apple's faliure to redesign the interface of
ical - or at least aspects of its color scheme. A complaint that I
am not alone in feeling. I do genuinely feel that os X is still (even
compared to VISTA) the best OS on the market and because of
that, its hard to decide how it could be improved and a
significant improvement is going to be difficult to attain.
Having said all that, Im sure that there is more to come in the
new OS and first hand experience of it will convince me that
upgrading is going to provide me with a new list of features that
I really want to use.
The new mac pro looks like an exciting option. It seems that
Apple have upgraded the G5 in every way: more storage, faster
processors, better graphics card, quieter machine, more ports,
the lot. This machine is choc-a-bloc full of top end quality parts.
Posted by yikes31 (71 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Re: New Interface
An update to the interface may be one of the "secrets" that
Apple is holding back.

After all, they had a little fun showing how much Microsoft had
tweaked Vista to look like OS X. They just might be planning to
let Vista look like a clone of last year's GUI.

Poor old MS. Their motto should be:

Microsoft: bringing you today's technology, tomorrow.
Posted by rcrusoe (1305 comments )
Link Flag
There is plenty of room for improvement
Apple can go a LONG way to improving apps that already exist.
Enterprise-level collaboration such as shared calendars and
addressbook would be spectacular. Not just spotlight searching
them, but being able to share a calendar with others on a local
subnet (think about sharing your calendar with your husband or
kids, each independent, but shared to other iCal views). Or the
same with address book. Have this functionality in school, or at
the SOHO or larger office. Have it built into OSXS.

Taking swipes at the beleaguered MS is all fun and good, but
Apple could commoditize these simple sharing functions and
obsolete a huge benefit MS gets from Exchange. It should be
within Apple's ability, based on all the eye-candy they can
achieve. It doesn't have to be at the level of XCconnect or NOW
or Daylight or other specialty programs, 'though it would poach
some of their revenue. But me thinks the native apps beg to be
shared natively, without necessarily the need for a central server.

There's the same kind of sharing one could do with iPhoto. This
could be akin to iTunes sharing.

And they could take some time to think through existing
technologies more: broad significantly the preferences for apps
and underlying technology in the existing package. If they have
personal web sharing, then open up the management of Apache
in that preference, perhaps through an 'advanced' tab. Same for
ftp. And for the love of Pete, make the dashboard optional with
an off button -- why do we have to rely on third-party stuff for
technology shoved down our CPU cycles? If it spawns, give us a
way to not have to kill it. A useless process is just that. You can
have all the gigaflops you want, but my pathetic old PB G4 rocks
when it isn't bothered with unneeded daemons. This is like
Republican leadership: we need to drill for more because it is
against our religion to conserve.

Let's clean up our own house... then we can throw rocks through
Posted by afterhours (215 comments )
Link Flag
iCal's Color Scheme?
I don't understand the request for iCal's color scheme.... I seem
to be confused about the fact that you can make use of every
single color that exists in the visual spectrum in iCal by simply
clicking on the little square that says "other" and the color wheel
shows up. Maybe your talking about the faint grey of the current
day that lets you know in just the right hue, what day of the
week it is...... What are you talking about? Color scheme.. And
Time Machine?? What about Core Animation? Core animation is
rediculously cool and is what makes that little layers thing
happen over time that makes Time Machine possible, are you
aware of what this means for user experience, for developers
that care what thier apps look like? Isn't that why you have a
Mac, becuase of the look and feel of everything you do on it is
really cool? Well, Core Animation just opened a whole new door
to a vast universe of coolness.... There should be no
dissapointment buddy....
Posted by Mergeculture (8 comments )
Link Flag
Uncritical article
No surprise there, really, but it's getting to be rather comical how news from the same type of conferences from Microsoft are treated with suspicion and compared to Apple. Where's the comparison of the proposed features in 10.5 to those that already exist in Windows? As always, Apple is given a pass.

This time, though, it's especially sad, as Apple--after making fun of Microsoft for copying (and for what it's worth, they tweaked the Vista "Start Orb" picture)--launched into a bunch of features they copied from Microsoft and/or others: Spaces (notably available in Linux--even Amiga--and free from Microsoft via the Desktop Manager Powertoy), Time Machine (Previous Versions, System Restore, CompletePC Backup), Stationery (available in Outlook/Outlook Express for ages), document previews (in Vista), Core Animation (WPF), etc. The jabs came across as unprofessional, and even a little desperate. Everyone loves a little competition (although you don't see cheap shots like that at a PDC). But when they make a big deal of copying and then go on to show a bunch of features they themselves copied, that's just sad.
Posted by bluvg (90 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You'll upset the fanboys.

Then you'll get several reason why Apple's copying of said feature is not copying per se, just an upgrade of the feature to make it the way it is supposed to be.


you know how fanboys are. ;)
Posted by techguy83 (295 comments )
Link Flag
I have ;)
I used to support a half-PC, half-Mac shop. I love most of Apple's hardware, and OS X is a decent OS--though not nearly as great as many people regard it. The media and fanbase fawning is just absurd, though, and these events are, as one attendee put it, "like watching a Monty Python sketch." The marketing approach is often fallacious, and sometimes downright deliberately misleading. But don't expect CNET to point that out.

It's nice that they finally have real 64-bit support. But didn't they announce that with the G5? Yeah, the processor was 64-bit, but for an OS famed for its GUI, touting 64-bit support when the only way you could harness it was through CLI apps was ridiculous. Apple gets away with it because they know the CNETs et al will never write about such a thing. Far less likely would they point out that NT has had 64-bit support since version 3.1.

But most significantly, until they drop Mach, they are going to suffer performance limitations--particularly as CPU manufacturers turn to multiple cores rather than increased clock rate for increasing performance. The BSD-on-Mach architecture just does not scale well for SMP apps--which are the future.

And as for viewing porn.... :P Well, that's not really my thing, but you should be careful on OS X as well. There are plenty of exploits--as you've no doubt noticed in patching--to ease the owning. And if you're on Windows, stop using the admin account already! Limited user accounts are there for a reason.
Posted by bluvg (90 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Windows users, Use Mac OS X.. Its like driving a BMW
Any article about Apple or OS X is going to be a Windows user
VS Mac User battle, so I'm going to provide this bit of
understanding for those that post that have never used OS X.

Here is a story.... My roomate in college bought a Mac, and gave
me his PC. So my first computer was free, and it was a PC. I used
Kazaa and killed in 6 months with some virus I downloaded,
because I knew nothing about OS's and hardware and whatnot, I
was just a college kid that wanted free music. My roomate on his
Mac, which was one of the first 15" aluminum powerbooks that
he paid over $2500 dollars for with an 800mhz processor, used
Limewire, and got all his free music with no virus, and he still
uses this computer today. That was four years ago. When I
actually had the cash to buy my own computer, I did my
research and found the value in a Mac, the reason was also
because I used my roomates... The classic argument is
this....Windows users who are ignorant to the amount of super
cool things you can do with OS X, just don't know... . So... all I
have to say is use it, go into an Apple retail store and play
around with a machine that is designed to have the OS work with
the Hardware it is made for and see for yourself how you can
open 30 applications and see every window on your screen and
drag a file from any point, to any point on the hard drive, by
logically going "through" it visually by holding a file over where
you want to go for a second. Customize your own personal GUI,
like add a button here and there for you to do something easier,
so you can do things easier. It took me to use my roomates
computer to know, but hmm,.... Hit one button to order a pizza
(F12 for Dashboard) from the convienient yellow pages that fly in
front of your face. If you have used OS X personally for life
things, like music, pictures, and movies, then there is no
comparison. For instance Automator, it is super cool... I have an
automator script that plays tracks from my iTunes library in a
playlist called "Get Up" that goes off at 6:30 in the morning when
my iCal alarm goes off. The integration of all the tools is what is
cool to me. If you use your computer, and you obviously do if
your interested in a post about an OS. I don't know anyone that
has said, "Oh I've used OS X and I'm going back to Windows, it
does this and that better" Get yourself out and play with OS X..
You will see there is something better out there than Windows,
and there has been for 5 years. Apple locks thier software to the
hardware for optimization... Every part of the system is
optimized..... This is the only way you have less problems and
more performance.. Its like, would you buy a BMW that licensed
its engine bay to Chevy? C'mon... This is what you don't
understand. You wouldn't! You would want that BMW driving
experience... Not a Chevy Cavalier driving experience..... Yes a
Chevy and a BMW get you to the same place... Now what if that
BMW was the same price as the Chevy? Which is how Macs are
becoming... I think the choice is simple...
Posted by Mergeculture (8 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Not about Mac OS X, Windows Users
If you prefer Windows, that's fine. No one is goingto force you to use Mac OS X, right?

But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't consider the Mac Pro. Intel Macs are PCs. They run Macs natively, and with the Mac Pro, Apple has created a machine for high end users on both the Mac OS X and Windows platforms.

Go ahead compare the Mac Pros specs with Dell's high end offerings. You might be surprised to find out which offers better value.

Windows and any PC OS will install and run on any Intel Mac, with Mac OS X(using Parallels) or without Mac OS X(using Boot Camp).
Posted by Maccess (610 comments )
Link Flag
Tractors & Touring Cars
Windows is like driving a tractor that's hobbling along, spewing
smoke &#38; needs fixin' frequently.

Macs are like driving a fine engineered touring car (BMW) that's
nimble, luxurious &#38; a joy to drive.

Both are vehicles, but in totally different classes.
Posted by Llib Setag (951 comments )
Link Flag
Developer vs Consumer EXPO people...


THAT will be a CONSUMER convention + products orientaed.

PLUS, holiday season will be shortly after that...MORE
ANNOUNCEMENTS for the holidays people...

Get a clue.
Posted by Llib Setag (951 comments )
Reply Link Flag

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