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September 2, 2005 11:28 AM PDT

Another clue about the Big Bang emerges

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Scientists at MIT's Haystack Observatory have made the first radio detection of deuterium, a breakthrough that could fill in gaps on how the universe began, the university said Friday.

Deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen, was created during the Big Bang, the explosion that brought the universe into being, according to many. Measuring the amount of deuterium can, researchers believe, help them create models of how the universe began and how it evolved. The findings are being reported in the Sept. 1 issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Newsmaker
From the Big Bang to big bucks
Nobel prize winner Arno Penzias was part of a team that discovered evidence for the Big Bang in the early '60s.

An accurate measurement could also help determine the amount of dark matter in the universe, as well as the composition of gas clouds, brown dwarfs and other phenomenon floating around out there, MIT said.

Unfortunately, measuring deuterium accurately has been tough with Earth-bound tools.

For one thing, there's not a lot of deuterium. Standard hydrogen outnumbers it 100,000 to one. The optical wavelength of hydrogen and deuterium are also very similar.

Further, power lines, TV signals and radios can also interfere with trying to study the cosmos. Allen Rogers, who headed up the project, had to ask a neighbor of the observatory to switch brands of telephone answering machines to cut down on interference, the university said. Interference caused by one person's stereo system was solved by having a part on the sound card replaced.

The Haystack group used a radio telescope array built at MIT and took measurements for a year.

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Deuterium
by September 2, 2005 12:02 PM PDT
Deuterium evolved from the big bang. From which substance did
hydrogen evolve?
Reply to this comment
Hydrogen
by aabcdefghij987654321 September 2, 2005 1:04 PM PDT
Deuterium is an Isotope of Hydrogen and both were formed at the same time (ie: the Big Bang). The difference is that the nucleus of a hydrogen atom is formed by a single proton while the nucleus Deuterium is formed by a proton and a neutron.

What the scientists are actually trying to measure is the overall ratio of hydrogen vs deuterium that was formed since that provides data on how many neutrons were formed and captured into atoms during that event.

Next on their list may be trying to catch the wavelength of Tritium which is even rarer vs Deuterium than Deuterium is vs Hydrogen (Tritium has two neutrons and is the only other stable hydrogen isotope).

It should also be noted that we only have separate names for the isotopes of hydrogen, all the other isotopes of elements are named by the element and the number of neutrons. Probably the most well known would be Uranium-238 (non-radioactive) vs Uranium-235 (radioactive -- there are in fact 16 different isotopes of Uranium), you may also be aware of Carbon-12 vs Carbon-14 which is used in dating organic materials.
Deutrium is an isotope of Hydrogen
by msims September 2, 2005 2:38 PM PDT
Deutrium as you may know is an isotope of hydrogen and their are two decay chains of Uranium, Uranium-238 non-radioactive and Uranium-235 radioactive.

Uranium 238 decays into the following chain in the half-life sequence:
Nuclide Half Life
Uranium 238 4.5 billion years
Thorium 234 24.5 days
Protactinium 234 1.14 minutes
Uranium 234 233,000 years
Thorium 230 83,000 yers
Radium 226 1,590 years
Radon 222 3 days
polonium 218 3 1/2 minutes
lead 214 26 minutes
bismuth 214 19 minutes
polonium 214 1.5 x 10-4 seconds

And so on until lead 206 is all that remains.

Uranium 235 has a different decay chain that you can view here:
http://www.ieer.org/fctsheet/uranium.html
No evolution....
by Earl Benser September 3, 2005 6:14 AM PDT
... the Big Bang began with a singularity of energy. As the
sigularity expanded and cooled, the energy condensed into a
soup of quarks, gluons, and related particles. Further cooling
had these particles condensing into protons (with an equal
number of electrons) and neutrons. From these, the further
cooling provided condensation into hydrogen, deuterium,
tritium, and helium. Later, gravity began to separate the particle
soup into the basic galactic structure. Stars formed, burned
hydrogen into helium, ran out of fuel and went nova, and in that
process, formed up all the other elements we know and blew
them into space. Later, the debris from these novas condensed
and formed our solar system.

So no evolution, just routine nuclear physics. Simple process,
simple story.
Deuterium
by September 2, 2005 12:02 PM PDT
Deuterium evolved from the big bang. From which substance did
hydrogen evolve?
Reply to this comment
Hydrogen
by aabcdefghij987654321 September 2, 2005 1:04 PM PDT
Deuterium is an Isotope of Hydrogen and both were formed at the same time (ie: the Big Bang). The difference is that the nucleus of a hydrogen atom is formed by a single proton while the nucleus Deuterium is formed by a proton and a neutron.

What the scientists are actually trying to measure is the overall ratio of hydrogen vs deuterium that was formed since that provides data on how many neutrons were formed and captured into atoms during that event.

Next on their list may be trying to catch the wavelength of Tritium which is even rarer vs Deuterium than Deuterium is vs Hydrogen (Tritium has two neutrons and is the only other stable hydrogen isotope).

It should also be noted that we only have separate names for the isotopes of hydrogen, all the other isotopes of elements are named by the element and the number of neutrons. Probably the most well known would be Uranium-238 (non-radioactive) vs Uranium-235 (radioactive -- there are in fact 16 different isotopes of Uranium), you may also be aware of Carbon-12 vs Carbon-14 which is used in dating organic materials.
Deutrium is an isotope of Hydrogen
by msims September 2, 2005 2:38 PM PDT
Deutrium as you may know is an isotope of hydrogen and their are two decay chains of Uranium, Uranium-238 non-radioactive and Uranium-235 radioactive.

Uranium 238 decays into the following chain in the half-life sequence:
Nuclide Half Life
Uranium 238 4.5 billion years
Thorium 234 24.5 days
Protactinium 234 1.14 minutes
Uranium 234 233,000 years
Thorium 230 83,000 yers
Radium 226 1,590 years
Radon 222 3 days
polonium 218 3 1/2 minutes
lead 214 26 minutes
bismuth 214 19 minutes
polonium 214 1.5 x 10-4 seconds

And so on until lead 206 is all that remains.

Uranium 235 has a different decay chain that you can view here:
http://www.ieer.org/fctsheet/uranium.html
No evolution....
by Earl Benser September 3, 2005 6:14 AM PDT
... the Big Bang began with a singularity of energy. As the
sigularity expanded and cooled, the energy condensed into a
soup of quarks, gluons, and related particles. Further cooling
had these particles condensing into protons (with an equal
number of electrons) and neutrons. From these, the further
cooling provided condensation into hydrogen, deuterium,
tritium, and helium. Later, gravity began to separate the particle
soup into the basic galactic structure. Stars formed, burned
hydrogen into helium, ran out of fuel and went nova, and in that
process, formed up all the other elements we know and blew
them into space. Later, the debris from these novas condensed
and formed our solar system.

So no evolution, just routine nuclear physics. Simple process,
simple story.
Deuterium
by September 2, 2005 12:02 PM PDT
Deuterium evolved from the big bang. From which substance did
hydrogen evolve?
Reply to this comment
Hydrogen
by aabcdefghij987654321 September 2, 2005 1:04 PM PDT
Deuterium is an Isotope of Hydrogen and both were formed at the same time (ie: the Big Bang). The difference is that the nucleus of a hydrogen atom is formed by a single proton while the nucleus Deuterium is formed by a proton and a neutron.

What the scientists are actually trying to measure is the overall ratio of hydrogen vs deuterium that was formed since that provides data on how many neutrons were formed and captured into atoms during that event.

Next on their list may be trying to catch the wavelength of Tritium which is even rarer vs Deuterium than Deuterium is vs Hydrogen (Tritium has two neutrons and is the only other stable hydrogen isotope).

It should also be noted that we only have separate names for the isotopes of hydrogen, all the other isotopes of elements are named by the element and the number of neutrons. Probably the most well known would be Uranium-238 (non-radioactive) vs Uranium-235 (radioactive -- there are in fact 16 different isotopes of Uranium), you may also be aware of Carbon-12 vs Carbon-14 which is used in dating organic materials.
Deutrium is an isotope of Hydrogen
by msims September 2, 2005 2:38 PM PDT
Deutrium as you may know is an isotope of hydrogen and their are two decay chains of Uranium, Uranium-238 non-radioactive and Uranium-235 radioactive.

Uranium 238 decays into the following chain in the half-life sequence:
Nuclide Half Life
Uranium 238 4.5 billion years
Thorium 234 24.5 days
Protactinium 234 1.14 minutes
Uranium 234 233,000 years
Thorium 230 83,000 yers
Radium 226 1,590 years
Radon 222 3 days
polonium 218 3 1/2 minutes
lead 214 26 minutes
bismuth 214 19 minutes
polonium 214 1.5 x 10-4 seconds

And so on until lead 206 is all that remains.

Uranium 235 has a different decay chain that you can view here:
http://www.ieer.org/fctsheet/uranium.html
No evolution....
by Earl Benser September 3, 2005 6:14 AM PDT
... the Big Bang began with a singularity of energy. As the
sigularity expanded and cooled, the energy condensed into a
soup of quarks, gluons, and related particles. Further cooling
had these particles condensing into protons (with an equal
number of electrons) and neutrons. From these, the further
cooling provided condensation into hydrogen, deuterium,
tritium, and helium. Later, gravity began to separate the particle
soup into the basic galactic structure. Stars formed, burned
hydrogen into helium, ran out of fuel and went nova, and in that
process, formed up all the other elements we know and blew
them into space. Later, the debris from these novas condensed
and formed our solar system.

So no evolution, just routine nuclear physics. Simple process,
simple story.
(12 Comments)
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