Last week Microsoft said that the operating system known for years as Longhorn would be called Windows Vista and that a beta version would be available by Aug. 3.
In the four-year history of Longhorn--Vista's previous code name--it's arguably the first time Microsoft can claim to be ahead of schedule. Since first discussing Longhorn in 2001, Microsoft has changed the features of the release and pushed out its launch date several times. But there is little room for error now, as Microsoft is trying to have a final version ready by next year's holiday buying season.
Microsoft's Jim Allchin, the group vice president managing all Windows development work, spoke to CNET News.com this week about the beta release of Vista, its features and limitations, and hurdles remaining before the software's eventual launch.
Q: Microsoft today released the first public test version of Vista. What's the audience for this test release? Allchin: This beta isn't really for even tech enthusiasts. This beta is to test out some of the capabilities that we've got, if you will, in the plumbing. We've got the beginnings for the virtual folders, but really this is plumbing.
The work was done on a name six months, maybe nine months ago, and for once we were able to keep a secret.
Most of the stuff that we would expect that tech enthusiasts and consumers will be interested in will happen at Beta 2. Beta 1 is not what I would call deeply interesting unless you are a real bithead. We did change the file directory space. I consider that to be a step up. It was more than getting rid of the word "My." (In Vista, the folder that was once "My Documents" will become simply "Documents," while "My Photos" will become "Photos," and so forth.) We are trying to simplify it and make it easier.
What are the next steps? Allchin: We'll be pushing ahead as fast as we can to get Beta 2--no time on that yet. We'll get to the PDC (Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference, to be held in September) and we'll be handing out Beta 1 bits at the PDC, as well as whatever current build that we have at that time.
What are the key hurdles between now and the final launch, and what aspects are the most challenging? Allchin: There are several changes that we are going to make that are going to take a lot of focused testing. They are things that customers have really wanted, but they are complex. (One of these is a feature internally known as LUA--Least User Access.) It's basically running users (in standard-user mode), not in (administrator mode, which makes it easy to add new programs and make other changes, but also to allow major changes to be made by malicious software).
If you are running as a standard user, then we have a lot to do in terms of application compatibility and also getting the user experience right so that users aren't surprised. That's a hurdle. We have most of the work done, frankly, but we expect there is going to be a time frame to hone it.
We have changed the way setup works, basically soup to nuts. We have a component-based setup now. We just need more time to get that tested with customers, which is why it's probably the most important thing coming out in Beta 1. I worry about everything. We have a lot of code coming in this summer, a lot of code. We'll see how that goes.
Vista marks a change when it comes to shutting off a PC and turning it back on. Today there are a variety of options: shutting down completely, suspending and hibernating. How do you expect that to change with Vista? Allchin: We didn't turn on that new technology in Beta 1, that new way of approaching it. What we did in Beta 1 is, there is new code in the system so that the number of times that you have to reboot is minimized. We also put in new technologies for hang protection. What's coming in Beta 2 is we are going to encourage people to conceptually leave their machines on more. That's because we will drop the power usage...so that you will have a better instant-on experience. And then at the same time, when we do save and have to shut down, conceptually, standby and hibernate will be unified.
What we hope--this is not yet final, but what we hope is--you'll just mainly think about two states, off and on, and the system will do the right things, given how long it's been in off state. It may save out more things because there will be different levels of "offness," but to the user, all they'll see is off and on.
Commentary The Vista for consumers To win consumers over, Microsoft needs to pay close attention to their needs and habits.
We've done some calculations of power savings that we expect. I saw a number that showed basically when 100 million machines are running Vista, the power savings around the world, it is unbelievable.
So I'm not going to quote those now, but we have made those calculations. It actually gets people pumped here, because we feel like, well, we could actually help society in a different way there, which is burning less energy.
This beta is coming just a bit later than the first half of the year target set by Microsoft. It does seem that there isn't much give in the Vista schedule. How much room is there for a couple of minor delays along the way while still making Vista widely available by next holiday season? Allchin: Oh, I don't know. You're asking for a prediction that I can't give you. I mean, one of the things that we did is, we've already been running Beta 2 (internally). So we were doing that concurrently with
Turning off the machine would be the ultimate power saver, but Windows has traiditonally been a dog for power consumption -- be it because of idle loops, or what have you.
I used to use Win2K and Linux on the exact same hardware, and if you monitored the heat dissipation on the machine at idle, it was MUCH higher for Windows than Linux. Doing nothing at all, Windows very clearly used more electricity. I later got a copy of XP and noted an improvement (no SPs installed), but it was still inferior.
I assume that they've since learned a thing or two and have caught up to the alternative operating systems. Power consumption is increasingly a concern for businesses and home users alike.
As a windows user for many years I became sick and tired of all the crashes and virus problems. All I wanted was a computer that just works. Back in the summer of 2005 I made the switch to the Mac OS and now have a major regret, I should of done it years ago! What a fantastic diference, because now I can just get on and use my computer instead of wasting many hours on trying to get clapped out Microsoft windows to work. Wake up the rest of the world! and make the change to a Mac you know it makes sense.
All the talk on saving power by powering down system, but there are other ways which will save power without turning system off. Then again, install free-solar-system and you won't have to be concerned.
They got rid of the "My" in front of stuff! YES! That was soooo confusing! Photos only show that they've added Tiger's Spotlight and transparencies to the windows.
If they really want to make things simpler, they need to get rid of all the bugs and crashes that make this Mac user have to travel to his friends and family's houses to troubleshoot their PCs.
Okay Fanz, I read the interview. I looked at the photos. I scratched my head and pondered a bit. And still I come to the same conclusion, to wit, there isn't anything original in Vista at all.
Okay, so we have the new Aqua interface, a Windows version of iPhoto, a Windows version of Spotlight, and a Windows version of Terminal (so I can type in my application). I look and I see Mac OSX. Okay, well come on Microsoft, can't you do something we've not seen on the market yet?
The "innovation" canard aside, MS isn't about adding value, it's about buying things to put in their product, or copying the nice bits of other platforms so that the marketing staff can say: yeah, we do that too so there's no reason to switch, see?
Rather than make a system resilient enough to not be susceptible to viruses (more work) they purchase anti-virus technology and add it to their product (less work).
The point is that they are enabling MS users to have an experience tomorrow that will be like non-MS users' present day experience. Apparently, MS feels this will be sufficiently compelling to sell the product -- and it just might be. If it's not, they're in trouble.
Nearly everything discussed in this article and shown in the screenshots shows Microsoft is making windows more like Mac OS X, even in the little things, like taking away "My" from "My Documents" and "My Photos." The grey toolbar with search field on the right gives the design of the windows a strong resemblance to Finder windows on the Mac . At least they reversed the orientation of the little magnifying glass on the search field so it isn't an exact duplicate. Virtual folders? A copy of the Mac's "Smart Folders" but with a dumb name. Aren't all folders virtual?
Allchin talks about all the work they still have to do in getting "Least User Access" to work well so that people don't have to run in administrator mode much of the time. Well, I guess they haven't caught up to OS X in that regard yet.
What is a bithead? What is plumbing? Sounds like we are drilling for oil, more likely cleaning a sewer pipe. You would think if this OS was so revolutionary it might get a new name, something to leave the worn out moniker of Windows behind, along with all the crap the company has taught us that name symbolizes. Jim Allchin is at best a plumber, he certainly never offers any substance in interviews that show he has knowledge of his product, or his customer. Of course MSFT doesnt care about those, only about themselves. Good luck to the poor fools that buy more MSFT junk, you'll be fixing their shiny new plunger for years to come. When you get fed up, go for Linux or Mac OS X, see what you've been missing. Til then, Flush twice, its a long way to Redmond, WA.
While getting rid of the Windows idea is probably a good one, what they really need to do is start from scratch like OS X did and stop adding more buggy features on top of the ridicuously buggy Windows code. (Same for that crappy internet browser.) The major problem Windows users have is its stability. With a fresh start, they might be able to fix that. A large number of businesses running Windows are still running 2000. They can't afford to take a chance on new stability issues. They best thing Microsoft can do for themselves is show that they can be stable.
I strongly agree that M$ "borrows" Apple's idea's, many of the features that are being shown in this beta release are those features that OS X Tiger has been promising for 2 years now. Microsoft sat back and watched Steve Job's keynotes at MacWorld SF and WWDC, taking in all they could, tested "microsoft office" on their developer release of Tiger a year ago, and has been "creating" these amazing things for their long overdue Windows XP SE. Look at this thing, seriously... The theme is disgusting... Look at the Icons! They are gross! TYPICAL WINDOWS, YAY for them they can make transparent windows and a program search, doesnt seem like an amazing release... We shall see
If you love MAC or Linux, just buy them and you become their customers. Give your comments and opinion to them that make MAC, Linux better. You are not MS customer, why do you stil care about Windows?
guys are the ones that get called to fix the Windows boxes. I'd LOVE to have a whole week where one of my friends or family members didn't call me to come fix their PC. OMG I'D LOVE THAT!
Unlike all these Windows haters. I will say that I have gotten great entertainment value out Windows. I play the latest games and it has replaced my whole entertainment experience for the past 4 years that XP has been out. My PC has replaced my vcr/dvd and my mini component. I also expect nothing less when the new version of Vista comes out. I am actually waiting for the realization of 64-bit processing especially in the entertainment area and I mean Games and Video. XP, in my mind and experience, has delievered this and has provided this customer with loads of satisfaction. And it is because of this that I will go out and assemble a new PC and load Vista on in it. I guess you mac people will have to wait until, who was it, Gateway or Dell gets the new distribution contract from Apple for the Intel based Macs. Yeah whatever. You guys keep on piping how great Apple is when you talk about one or two aspects of an OS instead of the overall experience. Have you ever been to a LAN party before? I have never seen a Mac yet, though I have seen Linux occasionally. Do you guys play on-line , o let me guess you are going to say there is on-line gaming for Mac. And like what there is a huge Community as big as PC users? Yeah, right! Have you ever watched the World Cyber Games? I must have missed the Mac section there. Common get real!!! There is stuff that Windows does well.
While I can see that many of the Apple people here are a bit biased, you said in your previous post "you guys keep piping how great Apple is when you talk about one or two aspects of an OS instead of the overall experience" and yet your only argument in your ENTIRE post is how windows has "LAN parties" and neat games. If you buy a computer soley to entertain you, thats fine, but don't insult other users with an argument full of fallacies. It is quite clear to see, even from an unbiased position, that Vista is moving in the direction Apple's 3 year old OS X. If all you care about is a gaming experience, then buy a Windows machine. Everyone knows there are very few games for the Mac. Personally, I could care less about being sucked into a virtual world where the sole purpose is to end another's life. Just as a previous user posted, Microsoft uses others' technology, that's all it has to do to profit. Apple, however, is always on the forefront of every technological idea they attempt to explore (and have to invent to profit) and should feel proud that other steal from them.
Ya, as a matter of fact I do play games on my Mac (online even!) and guess what? NONE of the games I've ever bought sucked. Sure, we don't get all of the games, just the good ones. But that's not why I bought my computer anyways. That's why I bought my PS2. I like to have my computer do more than just play games.
And I guess, let me be the first to say that the Mac OS is a great overall experience. Everything works, nothing crashes, my browser doesn't suck in adware or spyware, there are no viruses, if I want to move a program to another computer, I don't have to worry about finding all those files stuffed in the system folder, etc, etc. People just talk about one or two things so they don't start huge lists of all the reasons. =D
Apple is an incredible company at create fresh new products that have plenty of inovation. The world is a better place because they exist. But they can't compete on mass produced standards based hardware. The Mac does not have the same kind of performance as do PC (that will change as soon as the intel version are out). And yes, Microsoft is not the most innovative, just the most mass produced OS out there. Most of the world uses MS. And everyone steals ideas. To quote Steve J himself "Good artists copy, Great artists steal".
Apple is innovative (soon to be better performing)... MS is mass production, cheap, and high performance
.... but you've got your litttle world of games, and you're welcome to it. Most people actually like to accomplish useful tasks with their computers, and don't have time or interest to immerse themselves into game networks. And that's true of people using Windows, OS X, Linux and Unix.
I'd guess that you might get a different opinion about computer life if and when you ever make into college or trade school. In the meantime, as long as Daddy's paying the bill, have a ball with your games.
This is a serious question, since I haven't used a PC for several years. Don't PC's have a low-power mode they can be put into without shutting completely down? My iBook (and all Macs) have a "sleep" mode from which they can be back on the air almost immediately. Allchin seems to be making a big deal about Vista being able to do this. Am I missing something here?
You're not missing anything. A Mac has three modes: on, off, and sleep. On is full power, running apps and doing stuff. Off is of course off. Sleep is when the Mac uses almost zero power, so is basically shut down in terms of power consumption, but can be woken almost instantly (explaining why opening the lid on a Mac laptop results in almost instant gratification). The Vista "sleep" mode is actually exactly the same as what the Mac has had all along.
But then Linux probably borrowed it's Desktop environments from Apple, who got it from Xerox. Copying is good as it means that in the end, all Desktops will work and look similar. Good for users who don't want to have to learn things all over again.
the two desktop environments are GNOME and KDE. GNOME is for Mac lovers and KDE is for Windows converted (usually). i prefer KDE, it has the essence of windows but it is more unique and more functional.
If Linux is so great, why all of the negative press lately!
If Linux were as great as everyone said it was, then more companies would be adopting it on the desktop. They are not doing that, and many that have are moving back. If your a bit head, linux is great, if you just want to turn it on, install software easily, and have it work, Windows is where it is at. There is a reason why MS is growing and they are a $40B company, and it isn't because they have crappy products.
Nope. They have good marketing. Linux may be getting bad press. But what are good citizens doing when they read this? I usually find out where a story or article started. And the bad press usually comes from that Steve Ballmer. I don't think you could really trust Ballmer about the moral issues of linux. Nor could you trust Torvalds with the moral issues of Windows. I happily run linux. It hasn't served me wrong.
not 40B.... 40B revenue per year, or ~300B company... but yeah. ease of use is a big issue. most CIO's don't give a flying hoot whether they're supporting microsoft or redhat or whoever... which is the best system for the company??? (linux on the desktop often requires retraining every employee to some degree).
Its funny how Mac users make up 5% of the computing population, but 95% of the posts on this article. I won't go too deep on reasons behind this, but I can certainly say these replies do not constitute the thoughts of the general public... only those radical windows hating/loving (or like me, neutral but fed up with the bashing) are responding.
I've been fed up with XP on numerous occassions, especially when nothing but cursor movement responds. Once, I fdisk'd my drive and installed Fedora Core (Linux) in frustration. That was fine for about 2 days, at which point I wanted to play games... not just games by huge corporations released on multiple platforms, but games written by independent publishers. Microsoft treats developers who code for windows well, makes it easy, and as a result, there are far more programs. Remember when OS X broke a good chunk of OS 9 applications? That's not treating your developers well. Now a shift to an intel platforms, breaking PPC instruction sets? That's not treating your developers well. No WONDER so many people code for Windows instead.
Even now, I dual boot Fedora Core Linux and Windows XP, and after some use, I must say I get as frustrated with FC as I do with XP. Sure the documentation is great, but to figure out the syntax changes or directory changes from version 2.1.0293 to 2.1.2098 so I can type some obscure command so I can use my graphics capture card in Linux?? To scour the IRC channels to ask for help in playing a DVD, because my hardware came with Intervideo or WinDVD etc? With windows, things just work. I plug in my card, and a warm fuzzy dialog tells me it's ready for use. If I ever want to use a new feature of Linux, I go around doing research for a good 2 hours first. Although I do admit it's extremely nice to have an entire suite of software that I don't have to pay for upfront with Fedora Core.
My limited experience with Mac doesn't qualify me to comment on it...but there was an earlier post of someone telling Microsoft to start from scratch like OS X. First, OS X was not started from Scratch... it was built on top of FreeBSD. And to all those "you're copying mac!!! omg!!!" posts... I disagree (I have as much right to argue by assertion as you do). But even assuming you're right, even assuming it's a clone. So what? If Vista makes my life easier compared to XP with those copycat features, AWESOME. If it makes my performance better than XP, that's all I care about. If it makes my computer more secure than XP, that's all I care about.
Sure, there are benefits of Linux (and unix derivatives such as OS X)... that's why I use Linux too. But I find myself spending more time in Windows than Linux on my dual-boot machine, simply because Linux lacks alot of the programs I like to use. If it's something I do alot, (sure, I'll learn gimp)... but I don't want to spend 5 hours to learn how to do a 2 minute task in windows, if I am only going to do it 5 times a year.
I look forward to this release of Vista, simply because it will make things far better for the 95% of people (who are using Windows NT4, 98, 2000, ME, and XP). The remaining 5%... if you love your Mac or Linux box, great, I support you. If you can get your Linux box to do everything your windows machine can with Wine, mono, etc? Great, I envy your technical savy. Just don't deny that LUA, Softlinks (virtual folders), pretty graphics, etc will significantly improve the overall picture for the rest us in the world.
"Just don't deny that LUA, Softlinks (virtual folders), pretty graphics, etc will significantly improve the overall picture for the rest us in the world."
Won't try to deny that at all. The Mac OS has those things -- LUA (unix-style) and pretty graphics -- since OS X was first introduced years ago. We've had Smart Folders since Tiger came out, plus a number of other cool things like Spotlight. They are great. You will get to enjoy them too in about a year and one- half.
This is not just a bunch of assertions, and if you had more contact with the Mac OS, which I understand you don't, you would see that.
It is rather annoying to watch Microsoft act like it is the mother of all innovation while it works to adopt features from the Mac and elsewhere. It would be one thing if Microsoft were a great innovator, but the reasons that Microsoft came to dominate the market have a great deal more to do with economics and business decisions than with having a better product. And there was that small anti-trust matter.
Without Apple and other OSes to push the envelope, Microsoft will still be lumbering along. Well, it still is lumbering along, but at least it is starting to feel some heat (e.g. Firefox forcing Microsoft to update Internet Explorer).
95% of Mac users comment on this because we have tons of free time because we no longer have to tinker with crap software like Windows in order to get online and read about what is going on in the world.
Yawn, broken record you silly MS bashers. You cant say much about Windows XP/Vista they are/will be great products and you know it. I love XP and wouldnt spend the time to learn linux/mac because there is no reason to, windows does everything I can think that I would want it to. Who cares about dumb folder views, its all about apps/games/development and windows reigns in all 3. Face it the only thing you dont like is Microsoft's attitude. Get over your angry hippie self-righteous selves, software is business and business is money. MS happens to be good at both&
Good business involves competition. This is synonymous with capitalism. Bad business involves elimination of competition rather than innovation. Lack of competition has another name: communism. Communism doesn't work. *shakes head "no"* Government is here to stop corporate communism. Government is coerced by corporate communists.
Not that i've used IE for years *pats firefox* unless MSN Msger opens it or something, but ever since the beta-build days (i still have my copies of XP Beta CDs) the IE Icon has been from 98SE or something nasty and cheap looking.
XP is still FULL of the crappy old icons!
Also... Dialup Connection Dialog box has a folder icon, and not the icon for the dialup connection window. haha - i notice these things!
Dont use dialup anymore either *pats adsl modem*
I dont have any problems with windows, my system runs very well - has done for the last two years (i tried linux... what a mess!).
I've also been using a mac (side by side) for the past two years, and I can say, i like em both...
Macs have their advantages, and windows has its own.
SO i look forward to recieving my Vista beta CDs in the near future... I'm sure i'll like it - Additional "rip off" eyecandy and all :)
Lemme see...we went six service pack rounds in the NT livery, four with 2000, and XP has (so far) seen two majors. Business IT has seen a lot of buggered servers and applications as a result. If Vista can release without any major security or compatibility flaws it would be a milestone for Microsoft. Granted, keeping OS products current after release is a daunting task, but with all the hype I hope Vista is not just another XP in a different wrapper, but truly a next generation product.
I find it kind of funny when people say they have problems with their computers, no matter what OS it is. If all the people in the world would stay patched and not install anything that they know is not going to be used on a day to day basis, than I believe there would be little or no big issues. Mostly the reason people run into problems with Windows or any OS is because they didn't know what they were doing. I am excited that Microsoft is taking the necessary steps so that people can't make mistakes.
If any of you have seen any of the Channel 9 videos, you will understand how wonderful a OS Windows Vista will be. I don't really care whether they are supposedly late on some things. I think of it this way... a new OS that has more features + will most likely be compatible with everything I use now = happy :-).
Here are some things that Windows Vista will and has that Mac OS doesn't... Clear icons (icons are really larger than the standard view so they can be made larger without distortion): Mac OS- 128w/128h Vista- 256w/256h
Desktop Search/Relational Database: Many people mention that Microsoft is implementing this late, which they are compared to other OSes. Note though that Microsoft's will be a billion times better than the simple Spotlight in Mac OS when WinFX is released. Besides just search, there are other enhancements such showing only those files of a certain type or by other criteria. If it is in Mac, it's definitely not as obvious.
Changing directories with 2 clicks instead of 8: In Windows Vista, when you are viewing a folder that is deep inside a directory, you don't have to click back a million times and then go dow again to get to a different folder. There are new "arrows" built into the address bar in Windows Explorer that allow you to change the directory. Definitely not a Mac feature.
Anyways, there are many original ideas that Microsoft has developed (some big and some small), so try not to go with the flow and think everything is about desktop search and security, although that is important. Sometimes enhancements can be judged by just how easy it is to use something, and when problems arise how easy it is to fix them.
It amazes me from 2001 with the release of XP, its still around, HA Mac OS X had FIVE (5) major upgrades since 2001 don't you get it switch!!! Give up Microsoft, it's over. sell Office, Stop selling junk OS's Michael Dell wants MAC anyway. security security
This is just...wow. Microsoft has completley copied OS X this time! Or..at from what it looks like. A Windows version of iPhoto, Windows Spotlight, Windows Aqua interface--And all guaranteed to be slow! Come on Mac users, let's LET them copy OS X. I highly doubt that Windows will get even a fraction of the security, or the relience of OS X.
Then again, Apple can always sue Microsoft for completley stealing their OS. Or at least trying to.
Windows is a powerful and widley used operating system. MAC users :P are, in a way jealous because Windows is more popular and make more money. Windows is very powerful and very easy to use. The only think windows slacks in is visuals. And with Windows XP they picked that up a bit. And now with Windows Vista it looks like windows might be complete in its endeavour to become the best OS in the world.
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power saver, but Windows has traiditonally been
a dog for power consumption -- be it because of
idle loops, or what have you.
I used to use Win2K and Linux on the exact same
hardware, and if you monitored the heat
dissipation on the machine at idle, it was MUCH
higher for Windows than Linux. Doing nothing at
all, Windows very clearly used more electricity.
I later got a copy of XP and noted an
improvement (no SPs installed), but it was still
inferior.
I assume that they've since learned a thing or
two and have caught up to the alternative
operating systems. Power consumption is
increasingly a concern for businesses and home
users alike.
All the talk on saving power by powering down system, but there are other ways which will save power without turning system off. Then again, install free-solar-system and you won't have to be concerned.
Free-Solar-System.com Save-Power
confusing! Photos only show that they've added Tiger's Spotlight
and transparencies to the windows.
If they really want to make things simpler, they need to get rid of
all the bugs and crashes that make this Mac user have to travel to
his friends and family's houses to troubleshoot their PCs.
Windows system I interact with is owned by my
employer, not me. It should say "Their".
Okay, so we have the new Aqua interface, a Windows version of iPhoto, a Windows version of Spotlight, and a Windows version of Terminal (so I can type in my application). I look and I see Mac OSX. Okay, well come on Microsoft, can't you do something we've not seen on the market yet?
adding value, it's about buying things to put in
their product, or copying the nice bits of other
platforms so that the marketing staff can say:
yeah, we do that too so there's no reason to
switch, see?
Rather than make a system resilient enough to
not be susceptible to viruses (more work) they
purchase anti-virus technology and add it to
their product (less work).
The point is that they are enabling MS users to
have an experience tomorrow that will be like
non-MS users' present day experience.
Apparently, MS feels this will be sufficiently
compelling to sell the product -- and it just
might be. If it's not, they're in trouble.
So they can force users to use their database of course. :(
screenshots shows Microsoft is making windows more like Mac
OS X, even in the little things, like taking away "My" from "My
Documents" and "My Photos." The grey toolbar with search field
on the right gives the design of the windows a strong
resemblance to Finder windows on the Mac . At least they
reversed the orientation of the little magnifying glass on the
search field so it isn't an exact duplicate. Virtual folders? A
copy of the Mac's "Smart Folders" but with a dumb name. Aren't
all folders virtual?
Allchin talks about all the work they still have to do in getting
"Least User Access" to work well so that people don't have to run
in administrator mode much of the time. Well, I guess they
haven't caught up to OS X in that regard yet.
for oil, more likely cleaning a sewer pipe. You would think if this
OS was so revolutionary it might get a new name, something to
leave the worn out moniker of Windows behind, along with all
the crap the company has taught us that name symbolizes. Jim
Allchin is at best a plumber, he certainly never offers any
substance in interviews that show he has knowledge of his
product, or his customer. Of course MSFT doesnt care about
those, only about themselves. Good luck to the poor fools that
buy more MSFT junk, you'll be fixing their shiny new plunger for
years to come. When you get fed up, go for Linux or Mac OS X,
see what you've been missing. Til then, Flush twice, its a long
way to Redmond, WA.
they really need to do is start from scratch like OS X did and stop
adding more buggy features on top of the ridicuously buggy
Windows code. (Same for that crappy internet browser.) The major
problem Windows users have is its stability. With a fresh start, they
might be able to fix that. A large number of businesses running
Windows are still running 2000. They can't afford to take a chance
on new stability issues. They best thing Microsoft can do for
themselves is show that they can be stable.
features that are being shown in this beta release are those
features that OS X Tiger has been promising for 2 years now.
Microsoft sat back and watched Steve Job's keynotes at
MacWorld SF and WWDC, taking in all they could, tested
"microsoft office" on their developer release of Tiger a year ago,
and has been "creating" these amazing things for their long
overdue Windows XP SE. Look at this thing, seriously... The
theme is disgusting... Look at the Icons! They are gross! TYPICAL
WINDOWS, YAY for them they can make transparent windows
and a program search, doesnt seem like an amazing release...
We shall see
Max OS Leopard exactly the same time that Windows Vista will
be launched.
Know we know what little there is to Vista and how Mac OS X
Tiger beats nearly a year and a half before it even comes out.
This makes me excited to see Leopard. I expect it to be
downright revolutionary to make everyone forget Windows Vista
was ever launched.
LOVE to have a whole week where one of my friends or family
members didn't call me to come fix their PC. OMG I'D LOVE THAT!
biased, you said in your previous post "you guys keep piping
how great Apple is when you talk about one or two aspects of an
OS instead of the overall experience" and yet your only argument
in your ENTIRE post is how windows has "LAN parties" and neat
games. If you buy a computer soley to entertain you, thats fine,
but don't insult other users with an argument full of fallacies. It
is quite clear to see, even from an unbiased position, that Vista
is moving in the direction Apple's 3 year old OS X. If all you care
about is a gaming experience, then buy a Windows machine.
Everyone knows there are very few games for the Mac.
Personally, I could care less about being sucked into a virtual
world where the sole purpose is to end another's life. Just as a
previous user posted, Microsoft uses others' technology, that's
all it has to do to profit. Apple, however, is always on the
forefront of every technological idea they attempt to explore
(and have to invent to profit) and should feel proud that other
steal from them.
and guess what? NONE of the games I've ever bought sucked.
Sure, we don't get all of the games, just the good ones. But
that's not why I bought my computer anyways. That's why I
bought my PS2. I like to have my computer do more than just
play games.
And I guess, let me be the first to say that the Mac OS is a great
overall experience. Everything works, nothing crashes, my
browser doesn't suck in adware or spyware, there are no viruses,
if I want to move a program to another computer, I don't have to
worry about finding all those files stuffed in the system folder,
etc, etc. People just talk about one or two things so they don't
start huge lists of all the reasons. =D
Apple is innovative (soon to be better performing)... MS is mass production, cheap, and high performance
There is no comparison.
PS I love on-lines games...WOW rules.
welcome to it. Most people actually like to accomplish useful
tasks with their computers, and don't have time or interest to
immerse themselves into game networks. And that's true of
people using Windows, OS X, Linux and Unix.
I'd guess that you might get a different opinion about computer
life if and when you ever make into college or trade school. In
the meantime, as long as Daddy's paying the bill, have a ball
with your games.
years. Don't PC's have a low-power mode they can be put into
without shutting completely down? My iBook (and all Macs) have a
"sleep" mode from which they can be back on the air almost
immediately. Allchin seems to be making a big deal about Vista
being able to do this. Am I missing something here?
sleep. On is full power, running apps and doing stuff. Off is of
course off.
Sleep is when the Mac uses almost zero power, so is basically shut
down in terms of power consumption, but can be woken almost
instantly (explaining why opening the lid on a Mac laptop results in
almost instant gratification). The Vista "sleep" mode is actually
exactly the same as what the Mac has had all along.
Copying is good as it means that in the end, all Desktops will work and look similar. Good for users who don't want to have to learn things all over again.
Access.) It's basically running users (in standard-user mode), not in
(administrator....
Always done on a mac!
I've been fed up with XP on numerous occassions, especially when nothing but cursor movement responds. Once, I fdisk'd my drive and installed Fedora Core (Linux) in frustration. That was fine for about 2 days, at which point I wanted to play games... not just games by huge corporations released on multiple platforms, but games written by independent publishers. Microsoft treats developers who code for windows well, makes it easy, and as a result, there are far more programs. Remember when OS X broke a good chunk of OS 9 applications? That's not treating your developers well. Now a shift to an intel platforms, breaking PPC instruction sets? That's not treating your developers well. No WONDER so many people code for Windows instead.
Even now, I dual boot Fedora Core Linux and Windows XP, and after some use, I must say I get as frustrated with FC as I do with XP. Sure the documentation is great, but to figure out the syntax changes or directory changes from version 2.1.0293 to 2.1.2098 so I can type some obscure command so I can use my graphics capture card in Linux?? To scour the IRC channels to ask for help in playing a DVD, because my hardware came with Intervideo or WinDVD etc? With windows, things just work. I plug in my card, and a warm fuzzy dialog tells me it's ready for use. If I ever want to use a new feature of Linux, I go around doing research for a good 2 hours first. Although I do admit it's extremely nice to have an entire suite of software that I don't have to pay for upfront with Fedora Core.
My limited experience with Mac doesn't qualify me to comment on it...but there was an earlier post of someone telling Microsoft to start from scratch like OS X. First, OS X was not started from Scratch... it was built on top of FreeBSD. And to all those "you're copying mac!!! omg!!!" posts... I disagree (I have as much right to argue by assertion as you do). But even assuming you're right, even assuming it's a clone. So what? If Vista makes my life easier compared to XP with those copycat features, AWESOME. If it makes my performance better than XP, that's all I care about. If it makes my computer more secure than XP, that's all I care about.
Sure, there are benefits of Linux (and unix derivatives such as OS X)... that's why I use Linux too. But I find myself spending more time in Windows than Linux on my dual-boot machine, simply because Linux lacks alot of the programs I like to use. If it's something I do alot, (sure, I'll learn gimp)... but I don't want to spend 5 hours to learn how to do a 2 minute task in windows, if I am only going to do it 5 times a year.
I look forward to this release of Vista, simply because it will make things far better for the 95% of people (who are using Windows NT4, 98, 2000, ME, and XP). The remaining 5%... if you love your Mac or Linux box, great, I support you. If you can get your Linux box to do everything your windows machine can with Wine, mono, etc? Great, I envy your technical savy. Just don't deny that LUA, Softlinks (virtual folders), pretty graphics, etc will significantly improve the overall picture for the rest us in the world.
graphics, etc will significantly improve the overall picture for the
rest us in the world."
Won't try to deny that at all. The Mac OS has those things --
LUA (unix-style) and pretty graphics -- since OS X was first
introduced years ago. We've had Smart Folders since Tiger came
out, plus a number of other cool things like Spotlight. They are
great. You will get to enjoy them too in about a year and one-
half.
This is not just a bunch of assertions, and if you had more
contact with the Mac OS, which I understand you don't, you
would see that.
It is rather annoying to watch Microsoft act like it is the mother
of all innovation while it works to adopt features from the Mac
and elsewhere. It would be one thing if Microsoft were a great
innovator, but the reasons that Microsoft came to dominate the
market have a great deal more to do with economics and
business decisions than with having a better product. And there
was that small anti-trust matter.
Without Apple and other OSes to push the envelope, Microsoft
will still be lumbering along. Well, it still is lumbering along, but
at least it is starting to feel some heat (e.g. Firefox forcing
Microsoft to update Internet Explorer).
time because we no longer have to tinker with crap software like
Windows in order to get online and read about what is going on in
the world.
Dude, ever hear the term "open source"? Under that model your quote is, to put it politely, inane.
Bad business involves elimination of competition rather than innovation. Lack of competition has another name: communism. Communism doesn't work. *shakes head "no"*
Government is here to stop corporate communism. Government is coerced by corporate communists.
That's my rant!
XP is still FULL of the crappy old icons!
Also... Dialup Connection Dialog box has a folder icon, and not the icon for the dialup connection window. haha - i notice these things!
Dont use dialup anymore either *pats adsl modem*
I dont have any problems with windows, my system runs very well - has done for the last two years (i tried linux... what a mess!).
I've also been using a mac (side by side) for the past two years, and I can say, i like em both...
Macs have their advantages, and windows has its own.
SO i look forward to recieving my Vista beta CDs in the near future... I'm sure i'll like it - Additional "rip off" eyecandy and all :)
ZZZZZZZZZ, sorry Microsoft i really don't have time to wait on your
vapor ware.
If any of you have seen any of the Channel 9 videos, you will understand how wonderful a OS Windows Vista will be. I don't really care whether they are supposedly late on some things. I think of it this way... a new OS that has more features + will most likely be compatible with everything I use now = happy :-).
Here are some things that Windows Vista will and has that Mac OS doesn't...
Clear icons (icons are really larger than the standard view so they can be made larger without distortion):
Mac OS- 128w/128h
Vista- 256w/256h
Desktop Search/Relational Database:
Many people mention that Microsoft is implementing this late, which they are compared to other OSes. Note though that Microsoft's will be a billion times better than the simple Spotlight in Mac OS when WinFX is released. Besides just search, there are other enhancements such showing only those files of a certain type or by other criteria. If it is in Mac, it's definitely not as obvious.
Changing directories with 2 clicks instead of 8:
In Windows Vista, when you are viewing a folder that is deep inside a directory, you don't have to click back a million times and then go dow again to get to a different folder. There are new "arrows" built into the address bar in Windows Explorer that allow you to change the directory. Definitely not a Mac feature.
Anyways, there are many original ideas that Microsoft has developed (some big and some small), so try not to go with the flow and think everything is about desktop search and security, although that is important. Sometimes enhancements can be judged by just how easy it is to use something, and when problems arise how easy it is to fix them.
Mac OS X had FIVE (5) major upgrades since 2001 don't you get it
switch!!! Give up Microsoft, it's over. sell Office, Stop selling junk
OS's Michael Dell wants MAC anyway. security security
time! Or..at from what it looks like. A Windows version of iPhoto,
Windows Spotlight, Windows Aqua interface--And all guaranteed
to be slow! Come on Mac users, let's LET them copy OS X. I
highly doubt that Windows will get even a fraction of the
security, or the relience of OS X.
Then again, Apple can always sue Microsoft for completley
stealing their OS. Or at least trying to.
~? pwns~