Comments on: Microsoft to lock pirates out of Vista PCs

Antipiracy tech to shut people out of their PCs if the OS isn't activated soon after installation.

[qwerty75]

This will hurt legit users

Many people with valid copies of XP were hurt by the spyware known as WGA.

Many people that are stupid enough to buy Vista will get burned by a bug or two. If even one legal customer gets locked out wrongly, MS will pay large.

There are already lawsuits over there last wga screwup.

This is simply bad business. The funny thing is that interest in Vista is already extremely low, in all markets, but especially in the business sector. It seems like MS is working hard on making interst even lower.

[Ghost Spider]

I have to agree?

Having been caught up in the whole ?Corporation vs. Piracy? war myself, I have to say that I agree.

When the whole ?WGA? madness came on the scene, I got stung by a faulty installer for a free program that MS was offering. The fault was in the programs ability to communicate properly with the various elements within ?WGA?. Generally I was treated well, but always with a tinge of -we?ll talk after we?re sure that you?re not a pirate.- in the conversation.

Like advertisers that use overly militant ads to try and sell me crap that I don?t want, companies that are trying to act like police forces will meet the same fate as far as I?m concerned - They?ll get the boot from my computer.

I?m definitely not above learning a different OS and will watch with great interest to see if the nightmare of ?WGA? is repeated with the next version of Windows before I make a final decision.

If the new legitimacy verification process for Vista is not bullet-proof, many people will be left with a bad aftertaste for MS products.

[sandsunsurf]

What about re-installs?

When I used to run W2K, I reinstalled at least twice a year, and with 98/ME I had to reinstall at least every couple of months. I'm also the guy that was always upgrading hardware on my machines. So the question is, would the o/s lock me out if during a reinstall I add a new videocard, firewire card, or hard drive?

I'm very glad that my Windoze PC kept crashing and dropping frames when I started editing video, so I switched to what I then called "Mac-in-trash." Then I noticed I was using my Mac for e-mail and internet because it didn't crash and didn't get viruses. Now I own 4 Macs, and gave away my last PC at least a year ago, if not two...

[markdoiron]

Sounds Like ...

Sounds like you don't need to worry about reinstalls (unless you plan to install Vista on one of your Mac's).

But, while I did find it best to reinstall Windows when I ran ME and earlier versions (though not as often as you describe), XP is a much better beast. I've got three machines (mine, my son's and our laptop) and all run just fine without any reinstalls (two oldest installations are three years old).

mark d.

[xhable]

How is this different?

I don't see how this is different from the xp activation that can be "worked around" in less time than it takes to install the stupid thing.

if there going to charge what they say they will for the full experiance, then I can't see how they really think key codes are going to baffle students who have grown up used to downloading cd images cracks and working with registrys.

[Mallardd]

RE:How is this different?

Server side authentication and encryption
(Trusted computing) can make it significantly
different from previous versions if Microsoft
wants to. A simple patch or registry hack would
not help in such a case.

[jypeterson]

Pain to Keep MS

The whole point is that Microsoft can defend it's business practice, as it should. The problem will come with the implementation. There will be many headaches as people who have legitimate licenses will have issues. This will create a customer service nightmare for MS. Because of this issue, I can see many people keeping XP for many years to come. Also, since the hardware requirements are much higher, people will be looking more at other operating systems, either upgrade and purchase a new Mac or replace Vista with Linux. I think that we will see a greater increase in the amount of *nix based system in the wild that has been in the past.

Poor MS. They have always had a difficult time with customer service...

[pilaa]

Just Validates Purchasing Vurtualization Software

While Microsoft has a right to protect its Vista OS I am sure people will consider virtualization software more that ever now since XP (and even Win2K) is sufficient enough for most users. I know I have many copies (legimate copies by the way) of various Windows OS's from the constant upgrading I have done over the years and it would be just as easy for me to stick with my older copy of XP and Office 2000 on a Linux box running VMware rather than upgrade to one of the many flavors of Vista. I already own an Intel iMac and have been testing Windows 2000 and XP using Parallels virtualization software and I must say that with the way it works I won't be standing in line at midnight waiting to get a copy of Vista when it does finally arrive.

[iBuzz]

I'm out

I've used Windows for years because I found it unobtrusive. Sure there were blemishes here and there (like that awful animated search puppy that popped up when you first did a search in Explorer-- glad the guy or gal who did that isn't working at Google!). But for the most part, Windows allowed me to get my work done with little annoyance.

With Vista, this has all changed. Now, Microsoft has coded things so that they force me to be in a constant dialog with my OS. It's continuously asking me questions about whether I want to trust something or give permissions to something else. Microsoft has completely ruined the experience of working on my computer. Sure, I understand that they're trying to make the OS more secure, but if this is the only solution they can think of, they can keep it!

I've considered staying with XP for as long as I can, but who wants to be on an OS that is on its way out?

I've had it with Windows. They can keep Vista. I'm buying a Mac.

[rmjb]

Before you buy a Mac

Try Ubuntu http://www.ubuntu.com
Hey, you loose nothing by trying it, an high profile people have switched from Mac TO Ubuntu...

- rmjb

[Robert_Allan]

Good for you.

iBuzz,

Good, enjoy the Mac and all the great software that goes with it.

As far as "ruining the experience of working on your computer," and "the only solution they can think of," I'd be curious to hear the suggestions your comments seem to imply you have.

Hope you get back to answer.

[Amigoid]

Lets see what happens when hackers lock out users en masse

I wonder just how hard it will be for a hacker to develop code that crashes the authentication, so that millions of vista users suddenly fail authentication...the more complex the plumbing, the easier it is to plug the pipe...

[ddesy]

Hadn't thought of that...

Good point. I can even imagine some ways that this could be done.

The future of Windows could be bleak if people write code to force failures.

[imacpwr]

Same story, new OS..

Isn't this the exact same article cnet wrote prior to the release of
XP..??

[guano77]

Former MS Fan seeks another way

I used to be a BIG fan of MS, but I just got tired the hassles MS made in my life, and of course I never really liked being treated like a thief.

I used reformat my hard drive drive about one a year--kind of like spring cleaning. I'd get rid of applications I didn't use and start fresh. My system seem to always work better this way. Then this verification system when into effect with Win XP, and I had to stop doing that. My system seem to crash more often.

Then MS did the same thing to Office XP, doubled my headaches.

When my system died and I had to replace it this summer, I opted to install Open Office 2.0 rather than the copy of MS Office that I legally own. My needs in an office suite are simple, so Open Office wasn't that much different from the MS version, at least for what I use it for.

I don't miss MS Office.

When support ends on XP, I'm thinking it will be time to dive into the Linux pond. I already have been playing with a live DVD to learn my way around.

I'll bet I'm not the only one that is looking for a newer or "maybe" better way of computing. I think these new anti-piracy measures MS is implementing will drive other users to something to find an alternative to MS.

[qwerty75]

re

You are right, MS is constantly getting in the users way and treating them like thieves. Why people put up with this, and even agree with it is beyond reason. People even put out the tired "if you aren't a thief you shouldn't mind the intrustion". This is spyware, end of story.

The reason you got better performance from regular clean installs is due to the poorly thought-out and even more poorly implemented registry.

Windows degrades over time, by design, or rather lack of good design.

It is very telling how many people go to alternatives and report not having nearly as many headaches.

[cnutsucks]

Another reason not to install Vista. Thanks M$.

Not that there wasn't enough reasons to avoid Vista,
http://www.teckmagazine.com/content/view/635/43/
M$ helps convince users not to install Vista.

[qwerty75]

yup

It is funny. MS does everything they can to hassle its customers and people come back for more, willingly.

[john55440]

No Impact on Legal/Legitimate Users

Copyright criminals are outraged, but this will have no impact on legal/legitimate users of Vista.

Microsoft isn't in the business of keeping criminal pirates happy. :-)

[qwerty75]

wrong

Look at the last WGA snafu, lots of legit customers were unable to download updates because of the buggy system.

How many legit copies are going to get flagged as pirated copies this time around? It is going to happen, so your assertion is false.

What happens if you have to reinstall, change out hardware, ect? XP validation only works for a set time, then you have to talk some poor soul in India to give you a new authorization key.

It would not be that big of a deal if it were a one time thing, it is not. It is constantly checking as if somehow the copy will somehow become illegitimate. This is spyware, nothing more.

Treating all your customers like criminals is bad business.

I bet you are the type that likes warrentless searches.

[mrmister2000]

No Impact to Legitimate Users, You Say?

Sorry, but I think you're wrong. At last count I owned at least FOUR legitimate copies of XP in various types and flavours. So, one could then deduce that as I am a legitimate user these activation/piracy tecnologies have no impact on me. Right? Wrong!!! I constantly swap out given hardware items on any of my legitimate PC's... for example, I might upgrade to a better motherboard every few months or so and nothing annoys me more than swapping out my motherboard and then being prompted by Microsoft to re-activate my legit PC and copy of Windows, at which point the online activation feature tells me that "too many hardware items have changed" (it's a friggin motherboard... with different chipsets, lan connections, integrated sound chipsets, etc.) and that I can't activate online. So then I get the "pleasure" of being on the phone for close to 20 minutes while some Microsoft techie who asks me all sorts of questions and has me enter in some riduculously long, new activation code... which will only be invalidated again one month later when I decide to add/replace some new PCI cards and such. Now... multiply that by maybe three PC's which I might regularly upgrade every 4 months, or so, and... well, you can see where I'm going with this. Having to go through so much trouble on a regular basis is a slap in the face to those of us who have spent many a $$$ purchasing multiple copies of Windows for each PC that we build/own. If Linux only offered slightly better hardware support for the latest chipsets, vid cards, components, etc. (Linux's one, true achilles heal, if you ask me, based on personal experiences with the OS) then I would dump Microsoft in a heartbeat.

[guano77]

not a Copyright criminal, but still impacted

I am not a Copyright criminal and yet I have been impacted. I like to reformat my hard drive once a year, some times more frequently, but every time I reinstall I have to go to MS get Win XP reauthenticated. I have to hope MS doesn't think I'm a pirate, and refuse to authenticate me. Then I would have to buy yet another copy of XP. That is a very BIG impact on a "Legal/Legitimate" user.

[burgher]

Are you sure?

Microsoft, also isn't in the business of keeping their customers
happy either. Everytime I have to reinstall Windows or Office I'm
only all too well reminded of that when I have to repeat a 42
digit number three times to an automated voice response
system and two more times to a phone operator who can barely
understand/speak English.

I guess it's my fault, for taking the easy route when re-installing
Windows:

1.) Yank 3 of the 1GB memory sticks out of the computer. So
there's only 1GB of memory in the computer, cause the Windows
setup routine is too stupid to deal with more than a single 1GB
DIMM.
2.) Hook up the spare floppy drive to the computer so I can
install the RAID drivers.
3.) Fire the beast back up, pop the CD in, and hit the special
keys to boot from CD.
4.) Use the same license key I've used for my other three
Windows installations because it's the only CD I have that's a full
version (the others are all upgrade license keys and I don't see
why I should be forced to jump through 75 extra hoops when I
have a direct route already available -- Microsoft somehow
thought that a separate key algorithm for upgrades and full
versions is a good idea for some reason).
5.) Call the MS activation line which has yet to refuse to unlock
an activation (which makes me wonder why do we really need
this activation crap if they'll simply unlock windows everytime
i've ever called). Although, for grins, the next time they ask,
"Can you tell me why you are reactivating this copy of Windows?"
Just say, "No, I can't tell you that, it's a secret." It's actually kind
of fun.
6.) Shutdown the computer. Yank the floppy, and put the other
3GB of memory back in.

Last time I reinstalled my Mac and Linux boxes, the process was:

1.) Insert DVD
2.) Turn computer on.
3.) Follow the prompts.

No phone calls, no removing hardware and putting it back in
later.

[rodneyg79]

RE: No Impact on Legal/Legitimate Users

BS, legal/legitimate users will be affected by this. I brought a new laptop this year in Feb '06. I am a grad student and get free academic versions of various MS applications. I decided to upgrade my laptop's OS from Win XP Home to Win XP Pro. Of course I kept putting off activating it. Then I moved to an off-campus apartment and well my period to activate windows expired and I was locked out of my laptop. Everytime I tried to logon it'd automatically log me out of windows. Luckily for me, since my cable or phone service wasn't connected yet, I just used the laptop when I go on road trips and stuff and primarily use my desktop cpu which was already activated.

Also some of us are "power users" whom upgrade various parts of our cpu hardware with some frequency or periodically reinstall a "fresh" copy of windows since all the "junk" applications sneak and install can slow down your systems performance. Both of these situtions requires having to re-activate windows and well MS may blacklist a legitimate key thinking it may have been posted on the internet due to freuqent reactivation request using that same key (even though it's for the same cpu or the same cpu with upgraded components).

So when you say legal/legitmate users won't be affected that's not true. MS definitely has a right to try and protect it's product, but there has to be some better way.

[js334422]

It's Legal/Legitimate Users who suffer with MS

I purchased Windows 2003 last year and tried to install it on a server. The server spec wouldn't support it, so I wiped it and tried to install on another server. MS activation wouldn't accept the second install (even though I was really only trying to complete one install). I ended up chucking Windows 2003 and going back to 2000. No bloody way am I going to pay for a product that uses this kind of anti-customer technology. I'll still be using Windows 2000 ten years from now.

[sokorie]

CHEATERS and PIRATES- stick with your linux and mac

CHEATERS and PIRATES- stick with your linux and mac , and stay far away from VISTA if you are not willing to provide proof that your copy of VISTA is legal. for now , keep using your linux freeware. when you are ready to play with the big boys , then purchase your own copy of VISTA , or buy a new PC with vista pre-loaded, and upgrade to WINDOWS VISTA baby ....

[ddesy]

Obvious fanboy

You must be a fanboy!

I have had a 100% legit copy of Windows XP provide a lovely WGA failure. That's right, 100% legal copy of Windows XP Professional, only installed once and never even reinstalled!

Linux, is "big boy" software and NOT freeware. It is free software, a big difference known by those who bother to do anything but support MS. It is used on countless web servers and by many large companies.

I'll be ready for Vista when I regress to my second childhood... maybe. Until then, I'll use Linux and Mac OS X.

[qwerty75]

lol

Yeah, pay through the nose for what is already available. You will be missing features others have.

Pay for an OS that is bloated beyond reason: for proof, look at the minimum requirements and compare that with OS's that do even more.

Pay for an OS with built in security issues.

Pay for an OS and have to proof over and over again that it is legit.

People would willingly go through this? Why???

[GGGlen]

BWAHAHAHAHA

OMG, you just made a funny!!!!
EVERY Linux and Mac user I know BUYS ALL OF THEIR SOFTWARE,
while EVERY WINDOWS USER I know STEALS IT.
C'mon, man, tell me another joke as funny as your last, 'cuz you're
killing me!!!
:)

[js334422]

Don't you mean LEGITIMATE USERS should stick with LINUX and MAC?

This technology is really an insult to legitimate users. Mac and Linux treat their legitimate customers better than this. Cheaters and pirates will find a way around it, but it will be continually backfiring on people who've paid for Windows.

[Stormspace]

XP OEM licensing

Try to replace a motherboard in a machine with an OEM XP license. MS won't let you. You have to buy a new license unless the mother board is exactly the same in every detail. Try finding one for your white box PC.

[Doctuh]

Not Exactly

Microsoft requires the exact replacement, or whatever replacement is given, from the manufacturer if under warranty. If a motherboard fails after warranty, you are allowed to use basically the same level of technology. I replaced a motherboard in a system with OEM Windows XP Pro. I replaced a dead socket 478, 865PE motherboard with another socket 478, 865PE motherboard. Not a peap from Microsoft.

[jezzur]

Correct

Over the years I have bought so many copies of windoes its ridiculous.

They forget that some users have been users their whole lives. I was 8 and running windows 1.0, or maybe 2.0. I just wrote a response about Yahoo, and the way companys' personalities change.

If microsoft was your friend, would you stay friends?

[sanenazok]

What's the E in OEM for?

OEM is a highly discounted license SINCE it's tied to particular equipment. OEM Windows XP does not allow you to install it on a different motherboard, because it has activation. If you look at the licenses for most if not all OEM software, you would see that they are ALL tied to particular hardware. So when you replace a motherboard you should stop using all OEM software. It's just Windows that enforces this term, although granted it's not perfect since if you replace the mobo with the same model it'll let you through.

A different example: let's say you have a video card which comes with a particular program for something like rotating the screen. You decide that you need to upgrade your video card so that you can use Vista to its full potential. If you buy a different manufacturer of video card or different model from the same one, would it surprise you if you no longer could use the video card management program? It's an OEM license we've come to accept.

[Commandoclone87]

NOT Always True

My parents had an IBM computer that fried some time ago and the had to replace the motherboard and their copy did not require them to buy a new licence key, I myself had an oem of XP (Media Center 05 (for a laptop no less) and when my computer died, I just built a new desktop and installed XP from my laptop's recovery DVD.

Aside from having to install drivers for the hardware I had no problems, there wasn't even the bloatware many people complain about (that is thanks to manufacturers not MS).

Unlike many of you, I am mature enough to admit windows has its faults, but do not knock a product just because you don't like Gates or his company's policies (noting that Gates is no longer in charge).

[heystoopid]

Choices!

It's all about choices, with M$ slamming one door closed to lock itself in it's own "I'm king of the glass castle", it has merely open the floodgates for the opposition to swamp the market!

But then again , I hear that all is not well over at M$'s WGA, as it has now locked out a large number genuine volume license customers, keelhauling them and accusing them of running a pirated windows OS, and the company has been forced to offer a work around!

Oh well, what price fair use indeed , if you choose to onsell a genuine license to another party at a future date? , or will the third party be permanently locked out of M$'s glass castle in the sky and left to die in the wilderness!

[mkhecker]

It had to be done

From my experience, I have little doubt of the accuracy of the one-third figure for copies of Windows which are pirated. Considering that this is an operating system, not some optional piece of software, it certainly has an affect on Microsoft's sales. I know a lot of people who pirate Windows who would purchase it if forced to.

Doing away with the corporate volume licenses is common sense. Microsoft should never have offered them for XP. It basically voided the entire point to requiring validation by making a version of XP which didn't need validation. Of course it would be heavily abused by pirates. Saved them the trouble.

Genuine Advantage was just as poorly thought out. Sure it did the job of catching illegitamate keys and then locking the system from receiving updates. However because Microsoft was concerned that a "bolted on" anti-piracy software might cause problems for legitamate users, they left ways around it. Pirates likely took advantage of those more than the legitamate users did.

All this announcement is saying is that Microsoft is doing away with the loopholes that pirates abused with XP, and that it will be getting tougher about disabling illegitamate installations. It's all common sense and should come as no surprise.

[jones_8099]

Why do we still call it buying?

Why do we still call it buying? Its not buying anymore, its a one
time (at least its supposed to be one time) rent fee because you
don't own the software, MS or whatever other software company
does. This is the only industry where big business can get away
with this crap. Could you imagine the problems the auto industry
would have if they tried to do something like this when you bought
a car? I can hear it now; "I'm sorry you bought the car but we still
own it so you kinda have to consult us before you do anything with
it." We would laugh in their face.

[sanenazok]

'twas never buying

Software was always sold as a license. I remember running mainframe software that would create fake error messages forcing you to call the company to make it run again. When you called, they checked your license, and gave you "code" to fix the "problem." At least now it's publicised and clear.

I had to reactive XP after a lighting storm blew out my network cards and modem (thanks surge protector for keeping the LCD safe). It was an annoyance but hardly a reason to quit the OS. Guess what, since I had a legal copy the process took two clicks.

As long as we're on the auto industry, it's not uncommon for drivers to have terms imposed on them during a lease. Licensed software is like a lease for a term rather than ownership. You can always get alternatives that don't have such limits.

[lonewolf1234]

Just use Freespire or Ubuntu

Otherwise Linux. Does what Windows does and it's free.

[Had_to_be_said]

With shaking fingers... Microsoft...

Microsoft had finally reached the end.

Bill Gates had known what was coming and had already run away to hide himself, and his money, behind his charity-organization. Steve Ballmer had clearly, simply, gone insane. Most IT people had also sensed the impending demise, and had begun frantically looking for the alternatives which would replace the "Behemoth of Redmond", once the giant fell.

"Trusted Computing" had been Microsofts last hope. Only by encouraging others, such as ISPs and Government-bodies, to literally force everyone to use Microsoft-products, and by Microsoft being able to use their, long-standing, unethically-created, monopoly-position and various, under-handed, technological-means to lock-in customers, and lock-out competition, ...not to mention forcibly-extract revenue from virtually the entire computer-industry... did Microsoft stand any chance of remaining "...on top".

But... They had pushed too far, too fast, and too often.

And, there were "alternatives"... Even Microsofts best propaganda-campaigns had failed to hide that truth.

The impending customer-rage, consumer-backlash, anti-trust prosecutions, and countless lawsuits, would kill Microsoft more quickly than had ever before been seen in connection to a multi-billion dollar corporation. Yes, Microsoft had a long history, ...of making history. Just not in a good way. And, now, they were paying the price for their long history of raping absolutely everyone.

If only... They had invested more time in actually producing better products. If only... They had, had, any ethics. If only... They had accepted reasonable profits. If only... They had been forced to compete fairly. If only... They actually had changed... instead of simply, perpetually, claiming to have turned over a new leaf. If only... They had respected consumers, and not continually tried to eliminate virtually every right that consumers had. If only... they hadnt always tried to cheat, everyone, from the very beginning.

If only... in the end... their desperation hadnt been so pathetically-obvious.

...Then, maybe, Microsofts collapse, and the economic-devastation that would obliterate Microsoft stock-holders, ...could have been avoided.

But, Microsoft was one, consistent, thing. And it, just, could not change its spots...

So... with shaking fingers... Microsoft inserted the last bit of DRM into "Vista"... slowly put the muzzle of the OS in their mouth... and clicked "...activate".

[C_G_K]

No end to Micro$oft's Greed

The apologists for M$ always amaze me. I am starting to think that Bill Gates has his own misinformation squad that monitors any of these kinds of areas and posts pro M$ messages. This is just a continuation of their belligerent policies designed to squeeze as much money out of everybody as possible with no regard paid to the needs of their customers or to the security ramifications. Now that they've (in many cases illegally) demolished the competition, we all pay the price. Look at the way they've designed their OS. Tightly integrating everything makes no sense from a software engineering point of view, but only serves to lock out any competition. The only one standing in their way is the EU. Let's hope they can keep M$ honest, but I'm not holding my breath. Wake up guys, M$ is a threat to everyone.

[godam_registration]

Nonesense

Who cares how much money they make? Are you jealous? MS makes the American and world economies stronger and richer, and for this, I'm thankful.

Anyway, WinXP is a fine OS and I'm glad I have it. I do not think it would have been better by much if MS had competition.

Speaking of competition, look how it drives video card prices up while ATI and NVidia settle their difference! Who would have dreamed of a $600 card 5 years ago??

[Vegaman_Dan]

Yes, let's legalize theft!

It's terribly offensive to me that airlines seem to want MONEY for hauling me from place to place. Why, did you know that when I tried to get gas for my truck today they REFUSED to give it to me free?

How dare they! I demand that I should be given things for free and if I don't, I'm going to complain and whine about it loudly! I'll argue to the ends of the earth that I DESERVE to be given all this free because I have a right to it.

Now where's my key to Fort Knox? I need to make a withdrawal. I'm sure they won't mind or even attempt to stop me- why would they? Taking things that don't belong to me isn't illegal, is it?

Oh... right, it is. Sorry, I keep forgetting that.