Comments on: Microsoft to lock pirates out of Vista PCs

Antipiracy tech to shut people out of their PCs if the OS isn't activated soon after installation.

[rcrusoe]

"They will just need to do a little extra planning,"

Great, the cost of operating Windows computers is going up again.

And MS thinks businesses are going to adopt Vista faster than they did XP?

[cnutsucks]

Vista to be shoved down your throats

Remember that some major software companies will
http://www.teckmagazine.com/content/view/551/43/
probably be releasing Vista-only software. This will force people to upgrade. It's a strong-arm tactic but that's the M$ way of doing business.

[Raemir]

Why would anyone....

want to "upgrade" to an OS that requires even more to work to do less? I have yet to see any "feature" in Vista that I actually want, let alone need--and if I'm going to have to work harder.... Microsoft is just shooting themselves in the proverbial foot.

Microsoft grew to be a market leader because their software was easily obtainable and useable. But, there is no reason to believe they'll stay a leader when their software is hard to obtain and use.

I know I won't be upgrading to Vista and I'll find ways to keep my current version of XP working as long as I need to. And, this is what I'll be suggesting my employer do as well, since all Vista would do is steal company resources we could much better employ elsewhere.

[baswwe]

let the pirates flourish and you corner the market..

then you prevent piracy and are already top dog

Works in almost every market.

[Heebee Jeebies]

That will only get you so far...

Sooner or later you will have to upgrade, either to support hardware or software. I don't know if many of you have noticed but there have been more programs released that require Windows XP or higher, how long until we are Windows Vista or higher? It isn't as much that you don't want or need the features it is what the new OS allows companies like Adobe and others to do that will require the new OS. Lightroom from Adobe will require XP minimum simply because it allowed them to do things that older OSes couldn't do or couldn't do without a lot of trouble.

In a few years you won't have a choice. My problem is I don't think any company that only sells you one small part of your computer should be able to basically disable the entire thing and that is what Microsoft is basically doing. Add to that that Windows Genuine Advantage is well known for causing problems with people that have legitimate copies of XP and I see this in Vista as being just as unreliable. I guess we are going to need a major class action lawsuit.

Robert

[godam_registration]

I can definitely see that

It's not the first time I hear this argument. Most often, upgrading to a new OS or MS Office version really doesn't give you much for your money.

Other than the cute GUI, Vista is just a service-packed XP Pro.

[cnutsucks]

Vista Schmista...Just Another Hacker Tool

MS is wasting sooooooooooo much time trying to stop
http://www.teckmagazine.com/content/view/603/43/
legitimate users from using Vista, that they are making this new OS a hacker's best friend.

[PCCRomeo]

Windows is forever in "reduced functionality mode"

...I give it 3 days 'till after Vista's release to be hacked......

[GrandpaN1947]

Linnux is a failure

and Microsoft knows it. Otherwise they wouldn't get away with this crap. Now, more than ever, we need an alternate OS. For the immediate future we may see more multiple boot configurations so other OS's will do what Vista won't.

VISTA: Defective by design

[Seaspray0]

I dissagree

On the contrary, I think it is far from a failure. Although not as popular as windows for client and home computers, much of the webpages on the internet are brought to you through linux servers. The operating system does take more of a learning curve, in my opinion, but it will allow you to perform just about every function you would do with windows. I won't say "all" because 3rd party programs tend to differ between the two. If you're not happy with a particular OS, then use a different one. Each one available today is a success in its own right or it wouldn't still be around.

[jones_8099]

Linux is a good OS

if you know a little more about computers than the average user.
And there are alternatives (ever heard of OS-X). OS-X is a great
OS and i've never heard anyone say it wasn't (most people who
complain about OS-X have never used it or are just die-hard MS
fans). The old "I can't find programs for Apple computers" is
almost a none issue nowadays (unless your a gamer or have a
need for a very unusual program and even the game issue is
slowly going away) so with the price in Apples coming down
there is no real reason not to consider one. And just so we are
clear I own both types of systems (OS-X and XP) and use both
regularly, I'm not some blind apple fan boy (I know that attack is
coming sooner or later it always does when someone says
something good about Apple)

[roland827]

For now... because u can have pirated XP/98

but now with Vista, and eventually phasing out of XP, by the time XP becomes obsolete, people would be clamoring for an alternative and slowly we would be forced to go to Linux, since people won't be able to afford Vista (specially those in third world countries)... Results? More market share for Linux...! And Microsoft would then realize that the reason why they were number one in the first place - because Windows was usable and available even to the poor (via piracy). Now that the tap is gone (with Vista), they'll move on to other OS (or figure out some other way to run Vista)... simple as that.

[GlennAl]

Not a failure for the millions who use it

It may not do everything you want it to, or not the way you want it to, or maybe it does and you just don't know how because you haven't explored what it can do. At the very least, Linux gives control of the user's computer back to the user. Those who want large companies to do all the work for them can stick with Microsoft and Apple; others, who prefer to "roll their own", can join the open source, open software crowd, which is only going to grow and grow and grow and ...

The thing is, it's your choice.

[NoIBnds]

Linux IS the alternative

http://www.pclinuxos.com/page.php?7
Try this Linux, it's FREE and had the an Office Suite and more software than ANY Microsoft OS. Try it live without an install. See and you will not go back.

[godam_registration]

I totaly agree with this

Linux's only value is as the "symbol of the opposition". It's not a real OS, it's an interesting experiment at best. It's like comparing homemade fireworks to the Apollo program. Or rather, like not comparing them.

[Heebee Jeebies]

You are right Linux is a failure...

But not because it isn't a good OS, it probably is. However, it is a failure in that it has failed to get main stream software companies to design things like Dreamweaver, Photoshop, etc. for it. That there alone makes it a failure.

Having it used for web servers or computer geeks does not a success make at least not when talking about going against Windows.

Add to that that the only company to jump on the Linux bandwagon for consumer software almost pulled a Titanic and you can see why other companies aren't going to make the move. BTW that company was Corel Corporation. They pushed Linux software hard and it almost killed them.

Part of the problem too is that it "SEEMS" like those that use Linux expect the software to go with it to be free as well. So many companies don't see a large income from doing Linux software as well. That maybe why companies like Adobe have only released things that are free to start with and not the for cost products.

If Linux is ever going to be a threat or even moderate success for consumer desktop and many businesses it is going to have to have main stream software from main stream companies. Open source isn't going to cut it. While open source can be nice they often do not have the features, integration, support both from the company as well as third party (books and training, etc.) and they take forever and week of Sundays to get major updates done. Consumers and businesses simply can't or don't want to deal with that.

I hope Linux makes it. However, my feeling is if it hasn't by now it never will. It isn't like Linux just came out last week. It seems to have found it's place in the computer world and for most it isn't on their desktop computer. That also means that Microsoft is going to get away with shafting us for sometime to come.

Robert

[Brandon Bartelds]

How much of a failure can free software be?

I run all OSes, including a number of different distros of Linux. Linux may be the MOST insecure (even more than windows) but there are two things that need to be considered before calling it a failure.

That learning curve that people claim is so hard, not only teaches you how to work with linux, but causes users to understand a computer more than just pointing an clicking, and thus creating users who have a better chance of securing their own computer.

Secondly, IT'S FREE!!! What can you really demand from a free OS that doesn't disable your system because they want money?

[W2Kuser]

Gates - "Golly, why are Vista sales slow?"

What an extraordinary disaster in the making.

Vista already has my vote for "biggest disaster of the decade".

Brilliant marketing moves like this just add to the highlight film...

[jones_8099]

Taking Bets?

I bet the online activation is hacked on the same day as the official
public release. After-all XPs online activation was hacked before
the official public release date so I am willing to say MS is a little
smarter now thats why I'm saying it will take until the release date
this time.

[jeffhesser]

1 Week before release

I would put my money on it being hacked with near perfection at least a week before the public release. All M$ has done is give the crackers an excuse to avoid sunlight for a few extra weeks.

[Mallardd]

This may be a good thing

If Windows wasn't as widely pirated as is
currently the case, then perhaps more people
would be using something different. Piracy has
actually helped Microsoft immensely with pushing
their products while displacing the competition.
People may be more willing to consider or at
least try alternatives such as Open Office or
Linux if they they actually had to pay for
Windows or Microsoft Office. Piracy is wrong
anyway... I could go on but I won't.

[Seaspray0]

Sound logic

Microsoft is not guaranteed success with any release of a new operating system. As a precedence, Windows Millenium was a dissaster. Only time will tell how all this unfolds.

[ddesy]

Exactly

Although piracy is wrong, it did indeed help Microsoft to grab such a large amount of the market.

How many people do you think actually used valid copies of DOS and Windows 3.1/3.11? I knew many people who simply made copies of DOS and Windows from each other's disks or disks from work. In fact, I didn't know many people who did own valid copies!

These days Microsoft already has a stranglehold, though, so even if piracy is severely cut down the competition will still have a bit of a fight.

[PhilMacD]

Activation Existed in Windows XP as well

Guess you kinda overlooked that tho.

[td1138]

Sometimes activation existed

Activation did NOT exist for volume licensing customers or those who had a volume licensing key.

Guess you kinda overlooked that.

[ballssalty]

Once again CNET misreports

XP does the same freaking thing! If you install XP you have 30 days to register either over the Internet or over the phone. This is no different.

[roland827]

But you can bypass this with hack tools

Vista would take it a step further by having the Windows Geniune Advantage tool as standard as opposed to XP which allows you to have WGA optional (if you decline the WGA update, configure your update to ignore WGA, etc.)

This way, even if you were able to bypass the 30 day registration "request", WGA kicks in for ALL facets of Vista (updating media player, running IE 7.0, etc)...

I predict that with Vista's anti-piracy salvo, lots of users will stick with XP, move on to Linux, or the Linux community would be more pressed to come out with a better GUI interface for Linux... Microsoft would initially get more revenue from those with no choice but to upgrade to Vista, but eventually it would trigger a catalyst for people fed up with Microsoft's WGA "Spyware" and force people to try Linux (or at least make some other open source OS more popular)

[aabcdefghij987654321]

Once again you failed to read the article

which clearly discusses XP and it's activation scheme and how it's been changed in Vista. The evidence is that you didn't read the article, not that the author of the article misreported.

[jezzur]

No they didn't

The main point is that Microsoft has introduced newer and more harsh 'penalties' for not having proper activation. Namely that you can only browse for an hour.

Did you actually read the article?

[FusedAndCondazed]

You guys don't get it

The activation model in XP was in previous versions of Office (2000). It was basic, and it was easy to get around once you figured out the process. Vista is a whole new monster. Think of it as the difference between using a network trace to sniff for clear text passwords vs. encrypted passwords. Which one is going to take seconds to get vs. one that takes hours or even days?

Just by making it a little harder, its more revenue. Truth is, if people didn't want to run Windows, they have other options. They are just either too lazy to try them or too stupid to figure out how to do the same thing on another OS.

[ddesy]

Wrong about Office activation

Office 2000 did not have XP style activation. I happen to have both Office 2000 Professional retail at home and Office 2000 Professional volume licensing version at work, and neither contain activation.

[thomaskray]

SOunds like some of you are pirates

Some of you complain about having to activate your software. Well that makes me think you're wanting something for free. If you were in Gates's position, I bet you wouldn't want to give away your software for free either. While Linux is free-as-in-beer, it wouldn't be for long if it was widely adopted.

[jones_8099]

No I'm not a pirate?

However if I have get Vista (I would buy it because pirating is
stealing and I don't steal) and there is a way around the activation
you can bet I would use it. However I will avoid Vista as long as I
can because upgrading would mean I would also have to upgrade
hardware also.

[Stormspace]

Free?

Do I want my OS for free? Yes, I do. But who doesn't? I don't like the MS licensing model now that doesn't take home users into consideration. See if you can replace a motherboard in a generic PC with an OEM license without having to purchase windows again...

The real bite here is that Microsoft is putting more onto the IT departments and increasing TCO as a result. For companies with a small IT department it may be the difference between staying with XP indefinately or using an alternative OS. For larger companies it will definately push back any migration plans. The real kicker with Vista will be the hardware requirements. Most companies are getting by on 256mb P4's with minimal video memory. Add in Vista's new requirements and talk of Thin Clients are back with a vengence.

[baswwe]

if you bought the software, why are you being treated like a criminal?!

nmdfa

[HandGlad2]

Can't believe what WIndows users will put up with

>"Some of you complain about having to activate your software. Well that makes me think you're wanting something for free."

No, I'm just spoiled by open source. Been using Linux for six years now and I'm not used to being bullied and lorded over by arrogant software companies. It's incomprehensible to me why Windows users allow themselves to be treated this way.

However, it's your choice so y'all just carry on whining.

>"While Linux is free-as-in-beer, it wouldn't be for long if it was widely adopted."

Wrong. Some commercial distributions already exist, but so do many free ones. The commercial distro's have to bend over backwards and bundle a lot of extra value to persuade users to switch from the free distributions. It's a totally different experience from the way Windows users are treated.

[dland51]

Linux

Seems you don't understand the Linux license system.
Might want to take a look at that to get a better understanding of how it works, and why!

[jabbotts]

Free as in Speech, not free as in beer

A small correction. free software (of which linux is a small but prominent part) is free as in speech not free as in beer. It may cost you financially but more often costs you only time to aquire the related knowledge.

The concept of piracy is completely foreign to the very lucritive world of Free Software and Open Source Software (F/OSS).

I think the real gripe here is not registering your OS but Microsoft's gaining a dominant position through the same level of morality they now seek to abolish. Do I want to buy software from a company who considers their own customers adversaries. In my case, the bigger turnoff is the unreasonable retail cost, license terms and inefficient bulk that dosXP has evolved into.

[ddesy]

Sounds like you haven't been listening...

...to the news! WGA can, and does, sometimes identify valid copies of Windows XP as being pirated. If WGA is faulty enough to do this even ONCE it is too much.

Oh yeah, and Linux is free as in speech, not beer. Plus if you think it wouldn't remain free, you are ignorant of what Linux even is.

[kelmon]

Activation / WGA Great - When It Works...

I'd like to note that I have absolutely nothing against "product activation" to verify that I have a legitimate product. I also had nothing against WGA until it screwed up on my PC and started claiming that I had an illegal version of Windows XP installed. This was an interesting report since it had recognised it as a legitimate copy for the purposes of downloading things like IE 7. In the end I wasted over an hour of my time getting this issue fixed. OK, not a huge amount of time but when you're under pressure to get a job done then time is very important.

Anyway, this isn't a problem for me as long as the implementation of it is bullet-proof. Start mucking around legitimate users and my support of the proposal dwindles very quickly.

[jeffhesser]

1 week before release!

I would put my money on it being hacked with near perfection at least a week before the public release. All M$ has done is give the crackers an excuse to avoid sunlight for a few extra weeks.

[thomaskray]

That's my point...

MS wants to stop users like you who look for ways to beat the system. If you invented Windows, you would do the same thing that Gates is trying to do. Sure, free unlicensed computers for everyone would be nice but this is not utopia.

[rcrusoe]

You beat the system by not using Windows

A ton of governments and businesses in Europe have dumped Windows for Linux. It's not for everyone, but then again, neither is Windows.

I prefer OS X for desktops and Linux for servers, but the day is fast approaching when most users will use thin clients.

It won't be long until most business and home users won't know or care what their internet device runs, much like they could care less what runs on their cellphone.

Microsoft knows this, which is why they are desperately trying to break into new markets with XBox, Zune, etc. Their Windows/Office empire has peaked, and while it will take quite some time, will eventually decline and disappear.

[josephatshop]

HOW LONG?

Good for them and I hope it lasts but realistically speaking. It's only a matter of time till the Chinese etc hack it and someway bypass these security features. The only way which will help curb the counterfeiting is only for their governments to enforce copyright laws once and for all!!!!!

[john55440]

I don't care what MS does to pirates -nt

no text

[pchesels]

MICROSOFT ALLOWED THE PIRACY

M$ allowed the piracy of Windows NT server for years to gain market share. If you remember, Novell had the major share of the Network operating system market until M$ came onto the scene and offered windows NT server. How did M$ win over the 70% difference from Novell? Novell used to charge people for CAL's that you had to purchase and was sent to you on a floppy. M$ decided that they would offer their NOS and allow users to add CALS freely and the "Pay for them later" honor system. Obviously it was the IT folks who gave M$ the market share by piracy, but for M$ to allow piracy then to gain total control of the NOS market then start cracking down on piracy is lunacy. Call the kettle black. The only reason why M$ has what it has today is because of piracy and m$ thieving other peoples ideas and software. Now they want to critisize other people for doing exactly what they did and got away with. Shame on you M$!

[richto]

Ermmm, no...

Microsoft have always required that to use a CAL you MUST have purchased it prior to use to be legally licenced. They have never offered a 'pay for it later scheme'.

Even if they did 'allow users to add CALS freely' - which they still do - then why shouldnt they enforce you actually purchasing the license to go with them - not to mention for the OS itself.

[Vegaman_Dan]

If that were true...

If that argument was true, then why isn't Apple's Mac OS the #1 OS today? There was no protection on that OS from copying either. You could clone a disc and slap that into another machine in just a couple of minutes. We better add Apple to that list of guilty parties- well, them, and IBM, and of course Linux is guilty because they made the OS free- obviously in an effort to derail Novell by your logic.

I think you need a OS patch for your water bucket, sir. :)

[Amazingant]

Ok,

So it sounds like a good idea. But what about all those crazy people who have no internet connection? If they can't connect to the internet to prove it's a paid for copy, then they just waisted money on a computer they can only use for 30 days.

[aabcdefghij987654321]

Activate by phone

if you can't connect to the internet. That's how it works now and if you'd read the article you should have seen that MS will still offer that option.

[Jonathan]

More Power to 'em

I tried out RC1 for a month. Utter garbage. The UI is a fricking mess. Go and try to modify your network settings. I dare you. It will take you 20 minutes. Just try and find how to change the computer?s name. Its nothing like XP/2K?s. The new graphic subsystem? A joke. Windows own screensaver crashes once a week or so. FireFox crashes once a day. Right clicking in some apps crashes the app until you scale the UI back from Aero to ?classic?. If this is what the ?final? version of Windows Vista is supost to be MS can keep it. I know they have done a good job on the undercarriage of Vista but I?d pull out my hair if I had to use this GUI on a day to day basis. So MS can do whatever they want to getting pirates off their OS. I wouldn't touch this OS with a 10 foot cattle pro or at the very least a new version release. Maybe Vista 2010.

[palapaquete]

To risky to use hacked software version.

The number of bad hackers is on the rise. They will hack windows vista and release it to the ?public? along with back doors and spy ware built in. They do not work for free. You get free software, they get free hardware. I installed an illegal Photoshop copy from bittorent. My antivirus did not find any virus or something wrong, but the firewall started to complain about Photoshop trying to reach the net? and it was not trying to call adobe. If they can hack the program to bypass registration, why not add extra lines of code to do something else? And what best way to infect a machine than this one?

So my days as a pirate are over.

[Bjorn Hallberg]

Bill, is that you?

"Cracked" software is safe. Stop spreading lies.

While I'm sad that you happened to get a malignant version of Photoshop I cannot agree with your generalization. The scene is functioning as it pretty much has since its conception. As long as you get legit releases from legit sources you should be fine. I've never bought a piece of software in my entire life and yet I've never come close to what you describe.

And besides, with the world being what it is, I could just as well rustle up some odd example of how some cracker actually removed spyware or call-back. It doesn't prove a thing either. Use common sense and don't let yourself be intimidated by the industry and their propaganda.

As for the article, obviously, no one is going to use a legit dvd to install from when you can download a privacy protected cracked and otherwise much improved version from the net. I mean seriously, give it a few months and industrious people out there will have removed all the MS bugs, making the user experience all the more enjoyable. And so, as noted by others here, the real suckers will be those that bought the product. Now, what did you learn from this?

[chuchucuhi]

casual

The activation probably won't stop the hardcore pirate but may put more of the kabash on the "casual pirate" which I think is what they are going for.