Comments on: Microsoft's antivirus package makes a splash

Aided by low introductory pricing, Windows Live OneCare lands No. 2 sales spot at U.S. stores in its debut month.

[n3td3v]

hackers like onecare

hackers don't use onecare but they like it because its doing damage to symantec

symantec is thought as a bigger evil of the two

[Jerry Dawson]

Symantec...

We used to run it (Norton Antivirus etc.) - this dumb program has to examine each and every program/file you open thus slowing the computer to snail's pace. It's also expensive.... duuuh... no brainer... uninstalled! We tried McCoffee Pot, PcCiller, and Pand-won't-work - settled for AVG, which does its job.

[Jerry Dawson]

If it were for free...

I still wouldn't use it. Use AVG instead - it's free and works reasonably well. Nothing M$ has ever done has ever worked properly.. a wolf can change its coat but not its bad habits, as the Italians say. I would put no faith in it whatsoever.

[Jerry Dawson]

If it were for free...

I still wouldn't use it. Use AVG instead - it's free and works reasonably well. Nothing M$ has ever done has ever worked properly.. a wolf can change its coat but not its bad habits, as the Italians say. I would put no faith in it whatsoever.

[n3td3v]

avg is crap too

i use my own small application which i load virus definition files into. it is very lite, under 500k in size and its fast. all the av vendors are taking you for a ride with their bloatware. there is no excuse for an av product to be any higher than 500k. as for monitoring system processes, thats not needed for home users in my humble little opinion...only needed for corporate networks. even with your own av application with process monitoring, one can still be coded within 1000k, well below what the av vendors offer. get devcpp out and start experimenting :D

[Jim Hubbard]

OneCare should be illegal

Who can honestly say that selling a product KNOWN to be buggy and then SELLING you a product designed to correct the bugs in the original product should not be illegal?

Thats like Toyota selling you a car that they know is subject to catching fire via faulty electrical system THEN charging you to fix it.

Nobody in the world would put up with this type of unethical behavior in any other industry - so why are we putting up with it here?

If Microsoft knows the OS is unstable because the registry (which was a BAD, BAD idea to begin with) becomes cluttered with crap and must be cleaned up to restore the PC to optimal operating efficiency - they should just build it into the OS.

The same goes for antivirus. If they know that they have flaws in the OS (and who in the world doesn't know there are flaws still to be uncovered) then antivirus should be a part of the OS - just like air bags are required equipment on automobiles.

Microsoft should NOT profit from thier own mistakes while we suffer the consequences.

[n3td3v]

i still prefer...

i still prefer microsoft fixing their own bugs and offering their own anti-virus for their operating system, than a third party vendor like Symantec, making money out of another companies mistakes. Symantec should eh-f off and build their own operating system to secure, than relying on other companies like Microsoft for revenue. I think its a vendors responsibility to secure its own products, than third parties like Symantec doing it. I also don't believe Microsoft have bugs in their products on purpose, like some folks think, I think Microsoft Windows genuinely has bugs, which were/are accidental for one reason or another, and I think Microsoft were getting sick of third parties like Symantec making so much money out of their own bugs, that Microsoft has decided to bring out Windows Live OneCare. I'm not saying I like Microsoft or its OneCare product, i'm just saying I understand why Microsoft have OneCare and the reasons for it. Weather Microsoft should offer OneCare for free is another matter. Either way, Symantec lose out and thats got to be a good thing for everyone.

[Macsaresafer]

You bought it.

As Doritos used to say, crunch all you want, they'll make more.
They wouldn't be selling this crap if you weren't buying it.

OS X - five years and still NO viruses. Not fewer viruses:NONE.
Before some bonehead claims it's because of marketshare,
remember that OS 9 had viruses AND a smaller number of users. It
isn't how big the target is, but how soft it is. Windows is as soft as
it gets.

[unknown unknown]

RE

"Who can honestly say that selling a product KNOWN to be buggy and then SELLING you a product designed to correct the bugs in the original product should not be illegal?"

It impossible to make complex software like an OS totally bug free. Though malicious software can exploit flaws to infect system the can also exploit the user. Just look at the people that get infected because they run programs sent to them as attachments. Viruses aren't necessarly the result of bugs, though they often exploit them. The product designed to correct bugs in Microsoft's OS software at least, is Windows Update which is free.


"Thats like Toyota selling you a car that they know is subject to catching fire via faulty electrical system THEN charging you to fix it. Nobody in the world would put up with this type of unethical behavior in any other industry - so why are we putting up with it here?"

No one is forcing you to buy this, there is other anti-virus software avaliable and some of it is free. Besides designing and building a car is different from building software. It's simply not feasible to test software for every thing it might encounter and under every configuration it may run under.


"If Microsoft knows the OS is unstable because the registry (which was a BAD, BAD idea to begin with) becomes cluttered with crap and must be cleaned up to restore the PC to optimal operating efficiency - they should just build it into the OS."

Built what into the OS? Part of the reason the registry gets messed up is because of sloppy uninstallation software, and not just from Microsoft. It could be done like it was pre Windows 95 with individual config files. As far as harddisks and file systems go, it's usually more effcient to make one large file instead of a bunch of smaller ones. Microsoft did include a registry maintaince utility in the form of scanreg in Win9X and WinME. They also release Windows based utility as freeware called regcleaner.


"The same goes for antivirus. If they know that they have flaws in the OS (and who in the world doesn't know there are flaws still to be uncovered) then antivirus should be a part of the OS - just like air bags are required equipment on automobiles. Microsoft should NOT profit from thier own mistakes while we suffer the consequences."

Why don't you tell that to Symantec and other companies that would gladly sue them for being anti-competitive if they made such a move. That's what happened when IE was included and it's what's being done for Windows Media Player. Our courts and the European courts have said competition is more important.

[chuck_whealton]

Re: OneCare should be illegal

I have to agree with you. Now there's no incentive at all for
them to cleanup their operating system. I read in another article
that conveniently, other vendors are getting locked out of their
latest kernels. However, I'm sure their own products won't be
locked out.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[Tanjore]

Then don't buy it

Then don't buy it. Buy from symantec or mcaffee.

I looke at onecare as more of ongoing protection.

There is no OS that is inherently bug free and no OS can gaurantee that it is not prone for virus attack.

You have lots of choice. You can go and buy Mac OS X and be happy instead of buying microsoft OS.

Of download opensource anti virus for microsoft os!!!

[keaggy220]

MS is laughing all the way to the bank!!!

This is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. A lot of MS
people call Apple people fanatics, but I must say, this takes the
cake.

MS has officially waved the white flag concerning virus' and now
they are going to make money off the fanatics that must have
anything and everything with Microsoft written on the box. Let's
face it, they are the number two anti-virus maker at this point
with a totally immature product - this says a lot about their
customer base. Pathetic.

[sgt1035]

Here! Here!

...and 30 rounds of applause!!!

[herby67]

What's wrong with the registry

Seriously. I repeatedly hear that the registry is a bad thing. But I don't think an OS can do much with a repository of configuration information.
There are two alternatives: a myriad configuration files in different formats, stored all around the disk and with no consistent tool to edit, secure and access them, or a single configuration database, searchable, with access control and consistent tools to manage it.
Face it: the problem is not with the registry. The registry is just the place where you see the problem.
The problem is with applications (and the OS) not being consistent in the locations and formats they store the configuration information. But they would be doing that regardless of the registry. If the registry didn't exist, it would be even worse. Much worse.
Now, to your point: the analogy with Toyota is wrong. Microsoft is not selling the fixes. They give the fixes away, for free, and they have always done so.
What they are selling is help in managing your OS, doing backups and blocking attackers.
A more correct analogy would be Toyota selling you theft insurance, a localizer system or an alarm. Which would be OK even if they knew their cars can be stolen by a determined individual.

[wbenton]

Right on the mark!

>>>Nobody in the world would put up with this type of unethical behavior in any other industry - so why are we putting up with it here?<<<

It shouldn't be put up with here.

Microsoft should be held liable for their own mistakes... like everybody else!!!

Walt

[redrasys123]

OneCare illegal??

Well, imagine this. Will Toyota be paying for you to buy for your steering column protectors, security system (alarm), a bullett proof wind shield etc? Should Toyota have to pay for your carelessness when you open your car door and go shopping? What if a malicious gas station decides to mix water with your fuel - should Toyota pay for your damages? How about if you drive your regular sedan over spikes - do they pay for your flat tire? What if you replace the Toyota parts and replace them with some MomandPop store accessories ending up damaging your tranmission - will Toyota take care of the charges? Wake up and smell the coffee!!

[Alfred John Sandberg, Jr.]

Microsoft's Windows Live OneCare

After using Windows Live OneCare for a week and spending almost every day on line with Microsoft's support personnel, I have uninstalled it and intend to either return it or drop it in the trash can. The biggest problem was that when the Firewall was turned on, some of my email was blocked from being received or sent. Microsoft Support personnel were unable to determine what the problem was/is. This product was put on the market before the bugs had been worked out.

[JoeyD]

Weird!!!

I've installed OneCare on no fewer than 10 computers over the last few months. Every single one, ranging from out of the box new machines to my own 3 year old Dell worked perfectly the first time. Without exception.

[hfhlt004]

One Week?

This is not inherant in the program. There must be something you and your computer. I've used OneCare for 6 months with no problems after the first week or two. Perhaps you were too impatient to program it correctly and/or have conflicting programs.

[Trojan cow]

Selling faulty items? Is this a fraud?

I tried it, it's full of bugs, even in the forums there are a lot of complaints. This "thing" should still be in beta and more rigorous testing

[The Harper]

Still better than Norton AntiVirus

As time and changing market dynamics will prove, consumers will ultimately choose OneCare over anything Symantec puts out. OneCare might not be the "best" security offering, but relative to anything Symantec has released in the past few years, and relative to Symantec's stalled Genesis/Norton360 product, OneCare is a "star". (remember we are speaking relative terms, here)

If the outside world was given insight into how software development is performed at symantec, there would be a rush on the market and symc would tank forever. Not a company that is capable of creating world-class software. Microsoft (or hell, anyone... Even McAfee if they can continue their current trend and continue slimming down their products) will continue to erode symantec's market share. The execs and sales people within symantec can continue to spin and talk their way out of it, but the numbers don't lie.

[john55440]

Not A Megasuite (Good!)

One attraction of OneCare is that it isn't one of those bloated Megasuites. Symantec products keep getting bigger, and worse.

In McAfee's just released 07 line, two of their four products look pretty reasonable, in terms of what they try to do.

[OneWithTech]

Microsoft is INCAPABLE...

...of maintaining a secure computing environment, how the hell does it expect to keep up with the Antivirus and Antispyware realm.

Microsoft is notorious for leaving the consumer hanging when it comes to security issues with it's current OS, XP, how doe they plan to maintain a valid secure environment for it's clients.

FYI, the only reason Microsoft's sales of LiveOne Care has escalated is do to market up-sales and spiff's given to those the pump OneCare instead of a VALID ANTIVIRUS and ANTISPYWARE solution like Norton's.

Coming from a computer expert like myself, I would continue to invest in Symantec as well as Lavasoft's AdAware and Spybot Search and Destroy. It's just a matter of time before a security issue gets exploited in OneCare leaving the consumer to suffer once again. Maybe Microsoft should have left this in the "door stop idea" category!

JUSTIN

[keaggy220]

Symantic, AdAware, Spybot and Destroy

Wow, all of these are needed to keep Windows operational? Mac's
could be (and this is questionable) a little more expensive to buy,
but in the long run I would say they are much cheaper to own.

[maverick_nick]

Microsoft's Capability

As a software developer (somewhat of an expert on the subject), I do believe that Microsoft is an incredibly capable organization. Firstly they're the most attacked operating system in the world and they hold up pretty well. Obviously they get the most heat, because they're the most popular. Try patching a linux maching (it's hell).

I think it was AUS-Cert whom said that 80% of malware slipped through the premium antivirus solutions, so how great are they compared to Microsoft? Not too good I'm afraid - I'd go with Microsoft anyday.

After all they care about the people that made them what they are today - software developers. How many development environments like Visual Studio does linux have? None!

[wbenton]

Not possible!!!

Since removing Symantec as their favorite defacto pre-installed antivirus package... it's no wonder.

Symantec's past popularity was only due to the fact that it was included as the defactor pre-installed standard.

Personally, I never liked Symantec, but now that Microsoft is shafting them too... my sympathy goes out to them.

Regardless of what Microsoft claims as their pre-installed defacto standard WILL become a bit hit only due to the shere number of shipping OS's with that product included as standard.

Only thing is that older burned CD's are still shipping with Symantec and thus these figures must be a farce for future shipments... and not actual sales to-date!!!

Walt

[cary1]

It's a manufacturer's preference

for example, Dell machines come preinstalled with McAfee. My HP came with Symantec. I custom build my second desktop, so it didn't come with any of these... it all depends on what aggrement the manufacturer has with the AV makers.

Besides, the data presented in this article is from the retail stores like Bestbuy. So this time, MS is not riding it's market share. Perhaps brand name and low price are doing the magic

[bits95]

Yes please, can I spend more to secure my new OS

This is all one be FARCE. Windows security that is. I just by a new PC with OS and I need to spend more to secure it and my data.

Frankly, many users, and YES even Windows users are going to continue to switch to Macs because they pay just a LITTLE bit more, but they don't have to buy anything else to protect themselves.

User's are getting smarter about this topic. Bill better change some things before he leaves MS.

[pmfjoe]

Actually you are wrong..

Dell, Acer, and HP are still going to be shipping Symancrack's pathetic 90 day trial software on their PCs, they are not changing.

[travisL]

Maybe you should switch

Switch to Linux, it's more powerful, runs most Windows apps, or you can run it virtually, and.. oh yeah no Anti-virus software needed!

[hfhlt004]

OneCare

I have been using OneCare for 6 months. It is a pleasure to have ONE program to take care of everything. I may be naive, but I find that I have no problems with OneCare, and have had no intrusions since using it. I find it curious that there are so many people using Windows OS and MS products that have nothing but criticism for them. You DO have other choices. Why don't they use another OS, even Mac and Apple products. Why use MS products at all if you have nothing but venomous statements.

OneCare was meant for the average user who has no clue (like my sister) how to put together a protection suite and keep it updated.

[007geheim]

Better protection for less

Want a real solid, no hassle protection:
- cyberhawk (behavorial IPS) = free
- Antivir ranked advanced+ (seehttp://www.av-comparatives.org/) = free
- Prevx home (windows shield) = free
- Defense Wall = protection for P2P (e.g. limewire, mail, internet) by virtualisation, see what the experts tell you on wilders and catlecops = 30 dollar lifetime (shareware)

You do not need an ANTISPY with this freeware/shareware, no pop-ups all easy to use and a very high safety level

[RGarrard]

"Microsoft's antivirus package makes a splash"

It makes a splash; like when you tip over an outhouse...

[Apacheking]

Incorrect Suggestion. Linux is no more secure

The virus threat is serious in both OS. Try patching a Linux system - This is false information that Lixus is more secure. Windows by the very fact it being vastly used makes attcks visible. The virus attacks against both systems were documented by the DOD and found equally suseptable. More interoperability means more doors to attack.

[sgt1035]

More than questionable...

"It particularly gained on market leader Symantec, which saw its unit share drop 10.1 percentage points from May."

I don't like Microsoft, but, in this case, when will Symantec wake up??? The above is NOT the reason it lost any shares. Symantec lost shares because it screws with the operating systems and is almost impossible to remove!...and they will continue to lose shares as long as there are groups willing to get the word out.

I have contact with over 200 people that wouldn't touch Symantec products if you paid them to use the products!!! I'm sure many of you do too.

'Newbies' use Symantec until they learn the hard way.

[wbenton]

Anti-competitive Pricing...

The average price was $29.67, well below Microsoft's list price of $49.95. Online at Amazon.com, OneCare is available for only $19.99.

If a foreign country tried to price anything that was listed at $49.95 for $19.99... they would be brought up on anti-competitive charges...

So where are the charges against Microsoft?

FWIW

[tsm26]

Not anti-competitive

Do you even know what anti-competitive pricing laws are? Simply pricing a product below a competitor doesn't mean anything. If you think it does than go join a socialist country because that is what you are wanting. It only becomes anti-competitive if you lower your price to below cost for example, and after you have taken a desired chunk from a competitor or crippled them then you raise the price.

There are all sorts of products that have the competition priced all over the map (cars, computers, clothes). Is Kia then anti-competitive versus Dodge or Chevy? Is Dell anti-competitive over Mac? Levi over Banana Republic? If Symantec truly has a better product (which it doesn't), then people would pay more for it.

If after a year or something MS suddenly raises the price to 50 dollars after it takes a big chunk then you might have a case. However, MS still has the right to have an introductory offer for a few months also. Being too concerned about what you consider "fair pricing" will often do the exact opposite of what you want and actually stifle competition.

[firstlast]

That's stupid

Instead of making Windows less vurnerable to viruses and spyware they introduce their own antivirus? It's like you buy a new car with crappy tires and seller will include very cheap glue to fix them everytime they break.
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