Comments on: Jobs: New Intel Macs are 'screamers'

Apple CEO Steve Jobs introduces the first Intel-based Macs, almost a half a year ahead of schedule.

[make_or_break]

Hmmm...twice the speed

Guess that settles the performance question between PowerPC G5 versus the Wintel processors.

AMD is the fastest.

[Dachi]

4x the speed actually.

On their front page the caption under the new laptop reads "4x faster. (Wishes do come true.), 15.4-inch MacBook Pro starting at $1999"

The system is dual core, but 2 cores != 2x speed. I know PowerPC has lost some ground but only a couple years ago they were claiming to be faster.

Were the last couple years THAT bad for PPC?

Nope, sounds like marketing math to me.

Dual Core???

Um, lets see, Dual Core vs Single Core. Ya, might be a bit faster...

[EmbSysPro]

Marketing Hyperbole

People,
Please try to understand the difference between "speed attained" and work performed?, anyone who has seriously looked at the different cpu architectures that are continuously involved in this argument will tell you that ?THESE ARE MYTHS?. Intel?s architecture excels at speed. AMD?s architecture excels at work and the PowerPC architecture excels at both, while not leading at either.

Steve Jobs is doing what he does best, selling ice to Eskimos.

[Mephisto_Puck]

Speed Attained

Let's have a look again at the architecture issue:

The whole point of a dual-core processor is the ability to
multitask. Given, Intel is speed-drunk and AMD is more or a
number-cruncher (hence more gamer-used), but at this point,
the dual-core technology promises a better POWER than before,
specifically because the work is now split, and not sequential.
Just look at the Xbox360 for an example of a multi-core
processor working better than the previous.

However I write this with a grain of salt: The Intel duo-core has
not yet been proven as far as its ability. The theory is sound,
the power is there, but all this is lab-tested, or other controlled-
state. We shall wait and see, but my predicition is that Pixar, ILM
and other Mac-based, power-hungry and demanding industry.

[Robert Scheide]

Should I feel burned?

Charles, I hope you're right about the speed thing being marketing
hyperbole. I just bought a G5 iMac ten days ago, and now Apple
says the new G5 is "twice as fast and twice as amazing." Should I
feel burned?

[lingsun]

$1299 for an Intel Apple machine???

$1299 for an Intel Apple machine??? I'll stick to my Windows XP-AMD 3800+ for $720. Why are the prices so high? Just to discourage anyone who doesn't own one from ever buying one? I don't get it. Does Apple make $500 per computer?

[djemerson]

Does that $720 price include...

- System/Display integration
- A built-in webcam
- A built-in mic
- Built in stereo speakers
- Integrated remote system
- Built in wireless (Bluetooth 2.0 and 802.11g)
- Mac OS 10.4

[zigziggityzoo]

Hahaha...

Show me a $720 Dual Core Yonah that has no viruses, then you can
get back to me.

[brian.bezanson]

Let's Make the Machines Equal

As others have mentioned, let's make these similar in just a few key areas:

- 17" High Quality LCD - $300
- Web Camera, closest in quality is a Logitech QuickCam® for Notebooks Pro - $99
- Windows XP Pro (really you need Longhorn which may ship this year or next) - $200
- Adobe Photoshop Elements 4.0 plus Adobe Premiere Elements 2.0 - $149
- You'll Need MS Office for Outlook 2003 which is the closest to Apple's Mail, Contacts, and Calendar, the Outlook Express isn't in the same class.
- You'll need to add Nero for DVD burning - $79

The above items are now over $800 in additions to your Windows based system.

Add on the speakers, microphone, and a host of missing hardware and software and you'll spend another $300+.

So when we sit down at the compare table, a new iMac will cost $1299. Your system to be similar for software and hardware will cost close to $200 -- and you'll have to spend another $200 for the Windows Vista update in 10-12 months to catch up to where the Mac is now. Apple will be ahead further with Mac OS 10.5.

[assman]

is that price for a...

LAPTOP or a desktop?

u kno.. laptops are much more expensive than dektops

besides, your getting apples incredible innovation - such as the optical in and out and the magnetic power cord (truly genius)

[sath71]

The three Apple S's

That's the premium you pay for 'Stability, Security and Style'. It's
like anything in life, you get what you pay for. But they do also
offer great value - Apple is offering consumers this machine with a
flat screen built in, built in iSight camera, as well as the brilliant
iLife software. With new dual core processing for the same price as
the outgoing model - it is a great deal! If you want cheap as chips,
wait for the new Mac Mini, which is really the only comparable
thing to your PC!

[GAVINDEWEY]

apple vs. pc

1)apples have such great design why oh why does Steve Jobs make a mac version and a PC version that can run business pc software. So us business people can have a cool looking PC!

2) i-games idea downloadable games for your game consoles way lower ditribution costs and packaging. It is a no brainer Put BOB(likes robert) kondrk on it!

[Earl Benser]

Once more....

.... irrelevance from Bill. No, he doesn't get it, nor will he.

[Mister C]

Eating My Words!

An Intel based Mac that has a Linux based OS. Looks like it is time for a big plate of Humble Pie! To all you Mac-aholics I take back all the bad things I said.

And M$ does it again, snatches defeat from the jaws of victory!

[TyTyson]

ummmm

Apart from the fact that OS X is NOT Linux based - yours was a good post..

*rolls eyes*

[joelwest]

ExpressCard?

Apple's ahead of the curve with ExpressCard, but is this sane? With USB they gave up their proprietary ADB, but here they're giving up an established standard for a new one that (they hope) will catch on soon.

None of the big 3 (US) cell phone carriers offers data cards in this format. Will they? Given their active neglect of Mac users, until Dell (or maybe HP) owners start demanding ExpressCard it isn't gonna happen.

just like...

usb and firewire.... right?

[ewelch]

Yep

Apple pioneered USB. The iMac had it and everyone was saying
"But there aren't any peripherals for it!" Sure enough, in a few
months there were.

Apple had WiFi on Macs a year befor the next manufacturer
(Dell) did.

They pioneered Firewire. (Well, okay, so that hasn't bee as
successful.)

The list goes on and on and on. Nobody drives new hardware/
software adoption like Apple does. Their impact on the industry
is way out of proportion with their market share. And that will
likely continue (except in music where they eat everyone's
lunch.)

The only think Bill Gates has over Apple is his's a better
philanthropist than Steve Jobs by a long shot.

[startiger]

Any Multi-Core Programs?

Dual care chips, in any box, PC or Apple, still have one thing limiting their proformance. The programs. Dual core processros only combine two processor cores into one chip. YOu still have to have both an OS and programs that actually take advantage of both processors.

While the majority of modern operation system (except XP Home) support two processors, and therefore dual core chips, Last I checked, unless you were running server applications or high end (much higher than the adverage user will ever run) aapplications, the vast majority of software out there does not take advantage of anything beyond the first processor.

While eventually multi-core processos look like they will become standard, right how, how many people have programs that actually use that second core?

In a year, when a hot new game come out that requires a multiple processor system, they may grow in popularity with programers, but untill then, the adverage user is not going to see much differance between a single and a dual core chip of the same clock speed. FOr now, they are great for marketing to people who don't know what they are listening to and a reason to add several hundered dollars to the price of a computer.

For the time being, because the idea of a multi-processor in the adverage computer is still new, who actually makes software to put that second core to use? So this "screaming mechine" will only be slightly facter than a single core mechine of the same clock speed to the adverage user. Marketing math is at it again.

[mgreere]

Both cores will be used

Apple's been running and writing code for dual-processors for
years now. In fact, given the processor-intensive high-end apps
(Final Cut Pro, iDVD, Aperture, Motion, etc.), I'm sure many of
Apple's apps are built from the ground up to run on to cores.

Of course, that's assuming the OSX kernel doesn't handle the
threading to begin with.

[bill Kline]

MultiCore OS

Bob,

What you said may be true of Windoze programs.. MacOSX has as a
core technology Symetrical Multiprocessing. PowerMacs have been
dual-processor for 4 or 5 years. Many programs worked with
multiprocessing before OSX, but all programs work that way with X.
Sorry you windoze users have been left so far behind!

[BaldSpot]

Multi-Core Programs

My boss bought a dual-core computer for Christmas. I told him his games would suck because they are not made for dual-core. He came back after the break and said his computer SCREAMS when running games or anything else. Apparently there is some tweak you can do for non-dual-core programs so they still run like lightning.

[ewelch]

You obviously don't know Apple software

There are quite a few programs that are multi-processor aware
in OS X. Even Unreal Tournament 2004 unloads the audio to a
second processor to speed up the rest fo the program.
Photoshop is somewhat multi-processor aware. After Effects
from Adobe is especially multi-processor aware. It actually can
use all four cores in the new Quad Mac G5. Reports are it churns
out the fastest numbers any personal computer has even spit
out.

There are quite a few other Mac apps that are multi-processor
aware. Quite a few aren't. So your point is partially correct. But
hardly as correct as you think.

[mortis9]

obviously you have no idea what you're talking about

even in windows (which is a threaded OS) at all times you have a multitude, shall I say a plethora, or processes running, in addition to whatever applications you are running at any given moment. On a dual core system the OS intelligently distributes the workload amongst the available resources (processors in this case). kind of like a balancing act. Of course it will never be perfectly balanced at any given moment but the second processor doesn't just sit idle as you put it.

[zaznet]

Don't worry, many are coming...

There are some programs out there now that will make use of it. The most important aspect of a dual core system is that two programs can each have full CPU power at once.

Where you will see the multi-core development is from the game industry. Each of the new game consoles provide multiple cores in order to increase overall system performance. The game market is forcing app developers to start thinking on a multi-core method for their programs.

I've said this over a year ago, and those who scoffed at my prediction are seeing it come true now. :)

[discern]

Like evertyhing but the name

MacBook is hard to say. I know Apple wants to distance itself from
PowerPC by dropping "Power" from its brands but MacBook Pro?!
How about iBook Pro? There could be iBooks and iBook Pro models.

Just my $0.02. All in all, I'm impressed. Saving my pennies.

[zaznet]

Not hard to say.

The name "MacBook" isn't hard to say, but I do think the "iBook" would sound better and and could benefit from other marketing such as from the iPod.

[ROFLance]

Writer

Whoever wrote this should have finished middle school before attempting to prove any points. I found 20 typos and numerous grammar mistakes in this article. If you need someone to write grammatically correct and typo-free articles for you, come to me.

[mcthingy2]

Screamers

Someone should tell His Steveness that a "Screamer" roughly
translates as "flambouyant homosexual" in UK.

[tahbasco]

Boring....

Extremely happy the elitist Mac fans have something else to brag about, but these Mactels are boring. Maybe I'll get excited in a few months, but for now it's nothing new and spectacular. Still slower than AMDs at twice the cost.

[swortis]

Slower at twice the cost?

Can you back that claim up?

[bcsaxman]

What A Load!

Sorry to be so crude, but the performance claims for these machines is, ah, suspect to me. Did anyone notice those graphs? They were very pretty, woodgrained thingies, but totally devoid of meaning!

Lets try to be realistic about things here. Even though I'm sure both the new iMac and the Mac Book Pro (clunk) are better than their PPC-based predecessors, especially the laptop, the performance increases clearly have as much to do with the supporting technology as with the CPUs, if not more. PCIx over AGP - no contest. Slower video processor vs a faster one - 'no duh' there. Serial ATA over Parallel ATA - another big improvement. And (at least with the MBPro) FSB speeds that can't even be compared to the earlier model. All of that could have been incorporated into any Mac laptop, including a G4 based one, at any point, going back for the last 2 years.

Now, out of curiosity, I went to the site of the company (Freescale) that makes the G4. How many people realize that they too have a dual core CPU, with the same general clockspeeds as CoreDuo, and FSB support that is just as fast as this new Intel CPU too? Check it: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=0162468rH3bTdG7249

If the old G4 is any indication, they'll be pretty power efficient too.

So what? So why make a lateral move in performance and power efficiency, especially when - if moving to x86 is a good idea for some other reason - AMD is available? The new FX-60 is dual core, probably the most efficient desktop CPU ever, and a REAL "screamer" to boot. I'll be putting my money on AMD to surpass Intel even in the mobile space soon. As for PPC ... I don't claim to be an expert, but I do know that PA Semiconductor is reportedly bringing to market a mobile class, 64bit dual core CPU that promises to be very impressive, IBM has a 4+ghz Power6 in the pipeline for '06-07 that has Altivec on it (no one but Apple would compel them to add that, so I guess that lays to rest the idea IBM didn't care about them), and Cell is the most forward thinking CPU design I've ever seen or heard of.

All in all, this move to Intel seems supremely pointless to me. Question for Apple/Jobs: If second best is a worthy enough goal now, why bother with the charade? Just sell the company to Intel and be done with it.

[Xiaxua]

I agree

There's something about the Intel move that Teh Steve is not telling us. Was he pissed with IBM the way he was with Moto before that? If so, how long will it be before we have to move house yet again? Until his buddy leaves, maybe?

[JonB.]

Does that $720 price include (cont.)...

You keep forgetting that Winbows is still sftw from the Teletubbies and has no guarantee that it will work with your stuff or hardware.

[Godi GUtierrez]

I was screaming when I found out that my 2-weeks old iMac is now obsolete.

I am a loyal Mac user/owner who bought a brand new iMac as a
New Year's gift to myself two weeks ago. I went to several Mac
stores before buying my new iMac online with a 1.5 GB/500 HD
for $2,100+.

I kept asking sale people in the MAC stores if they will have a
new version of the iMac and they kept telling me that it is the
Mac Mini and the iBook that will be the first ones to change to
the new Intel Dual Core. So I bought the iMac thinking that I
have at least a year--since the version I bought just came out a
few months ago.

Anyway, it's not even two weeks and I have an obsolete unit. I
went to check the price for a 2.0 GB/500 HD iMac and it's
actually cheaper than what I have!

Apple should have a trade-in program for the hundreds of
thousands like me who bought iMacs in the last, say, two
months or so.

Anybody else out there with the same experience?

[Earl Benser]

You couldn't have missed all the hype...

.... about the MacWorld show. And by now you should have
known that Apple always announces new products at shows like
this. And no one tells the sales people what the corporation is
going to do, unless the sales people are locked into not telling
the public. So, your surprise shouldn't have been that much of a
surprise.

And the Intel iMac actually is $100 more than what you paid.
And right now, I think that I'd tend to appreciate the proven G5
performance, without Rosetta, slowing down my apps. In all
probability, the G5 may be as fast as the Intel Mac on non-
universal binary software. And if not as fast, it won't be all that
much slower.

Go for the swap, if it's important. Relax and go with the G5 iMac
if you want proven Mac performance.

Try Applecare

Try calling Applecare. In the past they've had a 30 day replacement policy for product update situations like yours. If its any consolation, I bought my iMac about 6 weeks before the Intel switch announcement. Avoid buying Apple hardware in the weeks before any event where Steve Jobs will present a keynote speech. Remember - even if you keep it, that is an awesome machine that will serve you well.

[Llib Setag]

iMac G5 is NOT obsolete...

Until ALL major programs are converted to UNIVERSAL BINARY apps for PowerPC AND Intel Core Duo Macs, you will be fine for quite awhile.

Depends on what you are working with presently...

Also, being on the bleeding edge vs. the cutting edge has it's benefits & detriments...

Try AppleCare or your nearest Apple Retail Store to see if they will exchange it...

I purchased the iMac G5 with built in video camera & Front Row for the Holidays too & I was predicting the Macintel Portables only for the MacWorld keynote...

I'm still happy.

[VTAlum]

Gotta love Apple marketing spin

It seems like only yesterday that Apple was hyping "the world's first supercomputer on a chip", and claiming that the PowerPC processor could run circles around x86 processors. Now Apple's entire marketing message is basically "The Mac finally has the world's fastest processor inside". Gotta love 'em.

[getwiththeprogram]

TYPICAL MACSCREWED

I learned the same thing a few years back when I actually made
the tragic mistake of buying Mac's popular fruit desktops,
blackberry, blueberry, snow, etc. Only to be crushed to learned a
month later that the new edition iMacs with a multitude of
improvements arrived and was selling for the same proce I paid
not six weeks before and that my machine was now effectively
being sold for like $1,000.00 less. This is a real Machievelian
strategy Mac has been doing for years now. Strategically
DUMPING old units on the cusp of the new arrivals to maximaize
profits before the unveiling. I learned my lesson the hard way,
and almost gave up my lifelong loyalty to Macs because I felt
shortchanged, duped and treated like a fool. If they had any
integrity beyond the modern day obssession with profit over
customer loyalty and support, they would have done the decent
thing and lowered the prices on units they well knew would be
old news after the New year's bells finished ringing. Now, I have
learned to wait until after the annual Mac show, when Mr. Jobs
(who received a piece of my mind via the Classic mode of
comunication: a hard copy letter) unviels his new tricks of the
trade to make people buy buy buy. They refused to refund my
money. I think you have like thirty days from date of purchase
depending on where you bought your machine to return it.
Otherwise, live and learn. I am on the verge of buying their new
MACBOOK PRO, but I just KNOW the Firewire 800 they took out
of the configuration and the DVD burning speeds will soon be
sold, my guess is by summer or fall latest, so I might just sit on
my good hard earned cash until this happens. Fool me once,
etc. etc.

[iZune]

Who Cares

Jobs is fighting for his measely 4% of the market...as he has been for the last 30 years. This just proves he is a 30 year loser.

[mattumanu]

30 year loser?

30 years in business doesn't add up to a loss. In fact, they are doing fine. iPod is the de facto number one MP3 player on the market, and Macs have been the choice for artists, architects, and musicians for years.

[757addict]

Apples accomplishments after 30 years...

With the move to Intel processors and Bootcamp Apple has finally realized its goal of catching up Microsoft and copying its product (think New Coke)...

[757addict]

Apples accomplishments after 30 years...

With the move to Intel processors and Bootcamp Apple has finally realized its goal of catching up Microsoft and copying its product (think New Coke)...