Comments on: Police Blotter: Can Circuit City techs legally peruse files?

After retailer allegedly discovers contraband on man's PC, he asks judges to say results of search can't be used as evidence.

[bdennis410]

Child porno? Who says?

The tech's self-generated definition of porno on the client's computer fails the smell test. I hate child pornography; it's generation, use, transmission, whatever.
But, in this case, the collective actions of Circuit City and the police and judiciary amount to a big wrong, Constitutionally, and otherwise.
I would bet the tech purposely picked the named file beause of it's name. Otherwise questions arise. Was this the first video file in the directory? No? Then why was it picked?
It is one thing to use legal tools to track and capture child pornographers; it is another to subvert the Constitution to ostensibly further a societal "good' as it's justification.
That, too, is wrong, just as real "torture" is wrong, even in the interest of protecting our society. As far as I am concerned
the invasion of this client's privacy is no more justified than the torture issue is justified by national security. If our scoiety has a true value, and it does, that value is not enhanced by doing things that diminish the stature and idealism of constitutional protections.

[notgonnatellya]

I find it strange

that the appeals ruling states that the tech was searching for a video file to test the new dvd-burner. Why does one need to have a video file to test a burner? Saying he was testing new codecs makes no sense either. if the guy had these files on his drive, then clearly he already had the codecs to play them. Certainly he didn't grab some kiddie porn and say, "hmm...it won't play...lemme go to CC and see if there techs can get it to play for me."

In short, I question the need to search for any files. One could easilly just go to my documents (or even the windows directory) and highlight a gig or 2 of data and make sure the burner burns the files and that the software verifies that the burned files match the originals.

With that said, if there was REALLY a legit reason to search for video files, I think the fact that the names said male 13 or 14 is a pretty clear give away. No adult porn that I've seen was ever labeled like that.

So I question the ruling because of the need to have a video to test the burner. Frankly, I think an executable is a much better test...but that's just me.

[moxienet]

What if it were financial records, passwords, etc.?

Are we "professionals" or not? What ethics should we follow when working on a clients computer system?

[Too Old For IT]

Now you have to turn them over

If you find passwords, financial records, you now can turn them over to the police or the nearest identity thief.

No problemo, says the PA courts.

I retire to bedlam ...

[Spazm1702]

What If I Buy A Second Hand Computer?

I wonder how the laws rule on someone who buys a broken second hand computer on EBay for example and takes it to Circuit City to get it fixed? If I don't know the contents of the hard drive, I wonder if I am liable for it's contents?

[unigamer69]

Why take a chance?

I was given a computer - an old one - second-hand. I wanted to fool around with configuring Linux on an older machine.

The first thing I did, was run Darik's Boot and Nuke (a secure deletion utility) with a Gutmann wipe on the hard drive.

I wanted the machine to have no record of its past. This is not only for liability, but also philosophical reasons.

[Leria]

If you can prove that you bought it second-hand

Then you do have an out there, as long as it has not been a very long time since you bought the computer used.

Personally, if I was to buy any kind of computer used.... I would immediately take it, format and wipe the hard drive (using a CD based disk overwriter that does a 7 or 35 pass erasing on the whole disc), and then re-install everything clean from the manufacturer discs that you should get from the person selling you the computer.

That way, if there was anything illegal on it before that.... no way for it to be found, you have removed it (thereby meeting your legal obligations) and you cannot be held responsible for it and won't because it will never be found.

[Flinxi]

Since when does 'DVD Burner' automatically mean 'video'?

I have 2 DVD burners in my system (installed myself - 1 is dual layer), have had them for about a year or more.... and I have yet to EVER burn a "VIDEO DVD".... I use mine to create data back-ups... as I can fit more on the dvd's than I could previously on blank cd's.

Secondly... What does Circuit City do if I go in the store, buy a computer off the shelf that doesn't have a dvd burner in it, but has other features I want... and at the same time as them to install a dvd burner in it. THERE ARE NO VIDEO FILES TO BE USED FOR TESTING!!! So what does the tech do then??? THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON - AND I DO MEAN NO REASON - FOR THE TECH TO HAVE SEARCHED THE USER'S FILES!!!

[Jim Harmon]

Not automatically...

Any time equipment is installed, a good technician will verify that it is functioning properly. One of the functions a DVD burners is designed to do is play video DVD's.

What this has to do with playing vids on the hard drive is beyond me. The burners I've bought and installed came with all the necessary software to ensure proper playback.

[wjsteele]

Since when does 'DVD Burner' automatically mean 'video'?

Well, let's break this down a bit. "DVD Burner"... "DVD"... expanded to "Digital Video Disk"

And you ask when does that automatically mean video? Sounds like it does to me out of the box!?!?! It just happens to also be good for data as well - which I might add isn't in the name.

Bill

[Spyers]

Have none of you heard of encryption?!?

Seriously, if you keep sensitive files on your computer and allow someone else to use your system it's your own bloody fault for not protecting your files. In the end it your responsibility to protect and back up your information.

It's like taking a shower in a glass box on Main Street and expecting no one to look.

[The_Decider]

MIssing the point

The 'tech" has no legitimate reason to do this.

That is the issue.

[ferretboy88]

Thats what I use.

I encrypt all of my photos so nobody who steals my computer can look at my naked girlfriend.

[TSBTech]

CC Techs

As an owner of a computer service business, the moment you hand your computer over to me, you have given up your right to privacy. The very first process we do, before performing any task, is to remove your hard drive and back up your data. I am not going to be yelled at, cussed at or have legal threats made to me because I didnt back up the pictures of your wifes fat naked but before we began work.
If you dont want a computer tech see your private pictures, or information, store it on a flash drive, or an external hard drive people. I will see whats on your hard drive. It is not that I am snooping, I am doing my job.

Sean

[Woodmon]

Unknowledgable tech and appeals court

It appears you are not a very knowledgable tech.

You do not need to view any files or observe one single directory name or filename to "image" a hard drive or back it up.

As to the specifics of the case at question, it was commented previously in thread that on installation of the DVD burner application bundled with the drive unit, the software automatically indexed the hard drive and the names of files with media file types appeared on screen and this is why the name of the questionable file came to the attention of the tech.

Even if this were the case, what gave the tech the authority to open/view the media file? If the tech had an issue of the filename and the potential legality of the file content it was NOT the techs responsibility to open/view the file.

At the very least the Circuit City legal department and the local police department and DA should have been brought in BEFORE a decision was ever made to open the media file.

It is possible the burner sw indexing application displayed a thumbnail of the media files as the drive was indexed, but I highly doubt if the display resolution of such thumbnail would have been detailed enough to come to a reasobale conclusion any laws have been broken.

An example scenario to consider...

If a customer asks you to install a QuickBooks upgrade on their PC do you assume that you have implied right to open their QuickBooks company file/data, without ever asking? Keep in mind that you can test/configure QuickBooks with the provided sample file and you do not have to open the customers company file to set it as the default company file?

Do you assume when you backup the customers company data file within QuickBooks you have the right to open the backup file?

Of if you install MS Office do you assume you have the right (and/or responsibility) open any Word or Excel doc with a questionable filename.

I suspect this case will be going to the Supreme Court.

[ferretboy88]

he has to pay to have a drive installed.

What an idiot. He should be arrested just because he is a moron.

[aSiriusTHoTH]

Simplicity of a genius

So you are one of those, "you got what you deserve" fools eh?

The Circuit City techs broke the companies privacy rules, and now it appears that have broke privacy laws. What the guy had on his computer definitely is illegal and just disgusting.. but even people such as this have "rights". If you don't like it.. move to a Communist country...

[davidrowland]

Really Simple Answer!!!!!

Why wait for a a new version of Windows? Even now Windows offers the option of filename changes. Change the name of the "My Documents" folder to "My PRIVATE Documents."

[boyien03]

They should ask the people

They should ask the customer(s), what they are accessible to because customers only think that tech are going to do only what they told. They should inform the customers of what they can access. Tech shouldn't be allow to look through, even if the customer didn't mention it.

[nick238]

Circuit City Techs.

I hope The techs have not signed a privacy document! Could cost CC some VERY BIG $$ On the flip side; There is no such thing as privacy! If anyone belives in privacy on the world wide web I have some ocean front property for sale in Iowa.

[egf247]

These Days....

Thanks to the so called Patriot act,No American has a reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to information either stored or transferred electronicly and those who believe otherwise will be in for a rude awakening,Guilty and innocent alike.

[MrTroy03]

They signed

Nope, The techs do not sign a document, but the CUSTOMER SIGNS A DOCUMENT RELEASING ALL PRIVACY, you can view it on circuit citys website

[MrTroy03]

WRONG

I agree with you for the most part, but the fact is CIRCUIT CITY CUSTOMERS SIGN AN AGREEMENT WITCH RELEASES ALL LIABILITY FOR PRIVACY, LOOK IT UP ON CIRCUITCITY.COM

[Fat_YouKnowWho]

Since when...

Since when does installation of a dvd burner necessitate the playing of video from the harddrive? The dvd burner is not used to play the video content already on the drive, so there should be no reason at all for anyone to access files to play. Yes, the employee may have wanted to select a few files of ANY type to burn a dvd as a test, but there should have been no reason to pick and play video files in my opinion.

However, the fact is, the sicko had kiddie porn on his computer, and took it out to a public place for servicing, so he can't expect too much privacy. I think the employee did exactly the right thing in this case. He stumbled on something apparently illegal, and reported it to the proper authorities to let them sort it out. Had he been accessing bank records, or some other private files that required a password to access, then things might be different.

That's what you get for putting kiddie porn on your computer! He probably wanted to get caught, or was fishing for others that share the same interests. It's a sick world!