Comments on: FBI director wants ISPs to track users

Robert Mueller becomes latest Bush administration official to call for ISPs to store customers' data.

[manicoti]

stupid people in the fbi

anyjerk who might have terrorist thoughts can go to a wi-fi hotspot and do the net
anyjerk who might have terrorist thoughts can go to most libraries to use the net
anyjerk who might have terrorist thoughts can use web mail under an assumed name in any pay to use internet like those offered in public transportation places and in various cities around the world.

this is just blantant stupidity so the government can say they have done something wonderful to protect us. JUST DUMB!!!!

[manicoti]

FBI director wants ISPs to track users

anyjerk who might have terrorist thoughts can go to a wi-fi hotspot and do the net
anyjerk who might have terrorist thoughts can go to most libraries to use the net
anyjerk who might have terrorist thoughts can use web mail under an assumed name in any pay to use internet like those offered in public transportation places and in various cities around the world.

this is just blantant stupidity so the government can say they have done something wonderful to protect us. JUST DUMB!!!!

[elderban99]

I see a problem with this...

Ok...the FBI wants ISP's to track what their users do so they can "preemptively" catch terrorists or sexual predators.

Now, think about it...in order to catch them *before* they take action, wouldn't they have to sift through the data first looking for possible violations? And isn't that illegal?

There's obviously no way they could use the data after the fact to try to stop them.

Couple this with the Military Commissions Act, and things get even scarier.

[1950trek]

Erosion of Privacy

Already under the current Bush administration we have experienced an enormous amount of erosion of privacy, all under the pretense of "catching bad guys." It is time to wake up, folks. How much more of this type of governmental intrusion are we going to allow before we shout from the roof tops, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"? Expressing our opinions here in this forum is a great first step. However, if you really want to take action, contact your state and federal government representatives and tell them of your concern regarding the erosion of our freedoms.

[tjrebel]

wait, whats the plan?

so the plan is to complain to the government that is committing
these very offenses???? and expect change, as if they dont know
what they are doing??????


genius

pure and simple genius

[tjrebel]

It's been said before...

"You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will
convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it
would do and the harms it would cause if improperly
administered." -- Lyndon Johnson

and...

"Power always has to be kept in check; power exercised in
secret, especially under the cloak of national security, is doubly
dangerous." -- William Proxmire

Reminds me of something... and does anyone really honestly
know how the government monitors our calls and banks, or
under what circumstances? The lack of transparency is what
really bothers me.

[jpaulspencer]

RE: FBI

Suppose you cruise internet sites looking at porn but otherwise you are an "outstanding" citizen. Then, for what ever reason, you become politically active (could be in any capacity). Your political opponent can then obtain these records to blackmail you. The use of electronic monitoring (or any kind of monitoring) as a political weapon is demonstrative in the examples of a few senators (Foley??)and Martin Luther King Jr. It most certainly is being used to keep the populace in check.
Don't get me wrong, I favor the pursuit and destruction of terrorists and traitors... But this development, along with others, crushes the rights of innocent people and can define our government as the biggest terrorist in our lives.

[BattleAce7101]

Wake up

Wake up America. Your country has been hi jacked!
You will have cameras on evry street like Britain. George orwell 1984 is here.
Fight for your constitutional rights!
Do you want an American Union much like the European Union? It will be here by 2008!
You need to find an indepedent to vote for because the wealthy own the Republicans and Democrats. America is an Oligarchy owned by the wealthy. Why do you think that the leaders now totally ignore the will of the people.

[LLLActive]

Pleased to see some wide awake American Citizens

I am well pleased to see some well awake citizens of the USA here.

Just one from Dalkorian:

Remember who the true enemies of America are. They are not hiding in spider holes in some desert, nor being tried in some Iraqi show trial, nor are they prancing around the Tora Bora mountains. THEY ARE IN THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW!!!

It is quite normal for Europeans to be absolutely open with criticism of its leaders if the mess up. We have had our share of despots, some not so long ago. Some, however, of the new and aspiring countries like the despot Putin is also trying to get in (God forbid). We have even more problems with the ex commies, who are 'converted' nakedly criminal capitalists and oligarchs today, east of us.

Do not wait till the US capitalism and democracy has devolved to these quagmires of the ex-commies. Stand up now, tomorrow you will be in detention because your nose is not Bush-liked enough!

Where does the term 'Bush'-whacked come from? Where will this Bush-guy attack from next? Isn't that a ter.or.st act? (too scared to write it out. IP's are all logged).

[buddesatva]

FBI internet tracking

Privacy has never extended as far as popular expectation with respect to the internet. Its always been a matter of technical competence. Anonymity seems to be the real concern. It would be interesting to contrast the arguments being made with reference to an individual's web activity and those made when the U.S. instituted an income tax. I am not disparaging the idea of protecting free speech. It clearly covers taste and intrests, opinions and just plain running off at the mouth. That said, what the FBI is proposing will come to pass. It will go beyond the monitoring of terrorists and we will accept it. The internet has never been a sphere of private activity. Email is a postcard, not a sealed envelope. The arguments against this type of data collection are just misinformed.

[twyrick]

re: blackmail

Absolutely! This type of legislation is a *horrible* idea! The problem is, we all still operate under a "reasonable expectation of privacy" with the things we do on a regular basis. Meanwhile, we're constructing a country that completely pulls that out from under its citizens!

All of this logging of information will just lead to its improper interpretation and misuse against people.

The current push to stop "child porn" is the perfect "hot button" for would-be blackmailers. Say you're involved in a messy divorce, for example? Your wife wants to make sure you don't get a chance to see your kid again. All she has to do nowdays is a Usenet search on your PC for child porn photos and drop a few on your hard drive. Then put in a call to the FBI and rant about your tendency to collect the stuff at home, and how it "ruined your marriage", etc. etc. They pull the ISP records that show your IP address indeed did fetch those files at a certain date and time. Coupled with her testimony, bam! You're looking at jail time and a permanent "sexual predator" branding on your record.

Another example was the big university that recently decided they'd crack down on "illegal file download activities" by their students. They started monitoring who downloaded the most MP3 music and video content, and terminated their net access. The student they "busted" first? Turns out he was working on a thesis project on "new media"!

[chuck_whealton]

Re: Blackmail

>Another example was the big university that
>recently decided they'd crack down on "illegal
>file download activities" by their students.
>They started monitoring who downloaded the most
>MP3 music and video content, and terminated
>their net access. The student they "busted"
>first? Turns out he was working on a thesis
>project on "new media"!

You're kidding, right? The arguments you listed are the exceptions, not the norm. As far as the thesis student goes, assuming that the student wasn't REALLY doing anything wrong, I'd be willing to bet his access was restored immediately.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[ghost113]

scary times we live in, FBI makes it Scarier!

It's scary to think that even if the FBI and American Government in general, are not as evil as I think they are, that they would make these outrageous proposals knowing that someday some administration would use each of these new Unconstitutional laws agains our own citizens. That's what the Bill of Rights is for, to protect against this kind of Big Brother, unwarrented search and seizure and harrassment which falls outside of the responsibilities of legitimate government. It's scary that we have allowed these kinds of Nazi-like, totalitarian bills to be signed into law in this country, signing away your rights and your children's freedoms for some false hope of security. It's sad to see this generation throwing away what the Founding Fathers fought so hard to achieve for us, that which has been so successfull for the last 200 years being discarded with nary a whimper on the part of the American people. We should all be ashamed of ourselves, most especially the CIA, the FBI and the Bush administration. These three domestic enemies of the Constitution have proved to be a far greater threat to peace, freedom and security than any terrorist could ever be!

[ASTRO6]

Indian Givers!

Too late dudes. The Govt used to control the internet WAY BACK in the day when it was in its infancy. They sold it however into private sectors giving up control. NOW, all of the sudden they want "control" again. Because they see how profitable it is! THAT'S WHY! I am so sick of these muthas sticking their noses into private business owners affairs trying to control them. IT'S DISGUSTING!!! Internet pervs and alleged "terrorists" are a very, very tiny fraction of the world wide web. This is but just another GOP BS tactic to get their dirty, greedy hands on anything they can and using the excuse - It's for "the children" it's for "your safety" Thanks, but no thanks! I can take care of myself! Go steal some more oil and mind your own damn business.

[ASTRO6]

Indian Givers!

Too late dudes. The Govt used to control the internet WAY BACK in the day when it was in its infancy. They sold it however into private sectors giving up control. NOW, all of the sudden they want "control" again. Because they see how profitable it is! THAT'S WHY! I am so sick of these muthas sticking their noses into private business owners affairs trying to control them. IT'S DISGUSTING!!! Internet pervs and alleged "terrorists" are a very, very tiny fraction of the world wide web. This is but just another GOP BS tactic to get their dirty, greedy hands on anything they can and using the excuse - It's for "the children" it's for "your safety" Thanks, but no thanks! I can take care of myself! Go steal some more oil and mind your own damn business.

[enigma.live]

911 Terrorists Won the War & Destroyed USA

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like maybe the 911 terrorists won the war and have effectively destroyed the USA???

I mean the USA that I used to be proud of when I was a child, when kids used to proudly say the pledge of allegience, doesn't seem to exist anymore. It seems we've been taken over, it just feels that way. I know we haven't had a military invasion but my instincts tell me we've become unknowingly an occupied country and our enemy is so dangerous we are all so afraid to shout out the name of the occupying army for fear of reprisal by the occupier. God help us all.

[bmh129]

AOL search records

I can't believe she thinks the AOL search records appeared to be useful. All this would do is show that SOMEONE sought the knowledge of how to commit a crime, and it doesn't even show WHO that someone is. Anyone seeking to frame someone else could easily use their IP address to create evidence. Wouldn't something like that lead to false positives? Besides, knowledge of how to commit a crime is not a crime.

Hey, Anne, read up on the Gestappo before you decide their sort of tactics are "useful."

[gernblan]

You have no right to complain!

You are the ones that keep putting these morons into office in the first place!

[mills357]

Re:Pleased to See Some Wide Awake American Citizens

You snot-nosed twerp.Where do you get off talking about Bush that way?
And then you have the audacity to run your mouth about how we are not up to the Euro level of cynicysm.
You go to hell,you Brit/Frenchy whatever.
Soccer stinks,fooball rocks.
We are playing the World Series over here because you people can't play baseball or anything else.
You stink at everything.

[LLLActive]

Result of FUD

Nobody could have presented a better reflection of underdevelopment that Bushian FUD produces than your post. It is sad to see human material going down the drain like you do.

[billyv88]

Re:Pleased to See Some Wide Awake American Citizens

Americans can't or won't play baseball either in case if you haven't noticed.

[blueyes123]

Everything outside of your home is fair game.

That is the only way to catch illegal activity and spammers. Got something to hide????

You must be doing something illegal---RIGHT!!!

[anarchyreigns]

Fvck you Muelller, you're scum.

My father slit the throats of garbage like you in WWII.

[GlobeResearcher]

Remember "limited government"

"Money is the mother's milk of politics." With or without lobbyists, everything politicians and bureaucrats do is evil. To limit the expression of evil, keep money private. Drastically slash taxation at all levels. Dismantle most of the state. Just say no. Don't get seduced by demlican-republicrat calumnies. "Scratch a liberal; you'll find an authoritarian" just as thuggish as these obscene "Republicans".