Comments on: FBI director wants ISPs to track users

Robert Mueller becomes latest Bush administration official to call for ISPs to store customers' data.

[Jim Hubbard]

Just like Nazi Germany....

...when the Nazi government got citizens and businesses to spy on one another in the name of the state.

But, consider yourself lucky. You get a front row seat to the decline and collapse of the United States of America.

I really wish it were not so. i love my country. But how can we do the same things - follow the same paths - as other failed governments and expect different results?

Physics and life just don't work that way.

[mbucci]

Or...Just like China...(?)

I agree, Jim. And I do believe there are more people who agree
with you than disagree, my friend. And this just makes the
situation incomprehensible; as incomprehensible today as it was
for a Jew in 1939 asking why no one could see, hear, or report
the truth.

As a very young person, I witnessed the later years of Joseph
McCarthy (R). Then, as a young adult I endured the insane years
of Vietnam, Nixon (R), and Watergate. At our present point
during the Vietnam era, the country was ablaze with revolt and
civil disobedience. Campuses were shut due to demonstrations.
Mark Rudd, by this point in those times, was smoking a cigar in
the President's Office of Columbia University. The talk was of
revolution; and, later, of impeachment. But this is NOT 1968.
Because today, there is....NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why?

Incomprehensible? Incomprehensible!

Our present time combines McCarthyism, witch-hunting, red-
baiting, erosion of Constitutional rights, press censorship, illegal
spying, unbridled capitalism, an imperious and unstoppable
Chief Executive and Congress, and I might add, the descent into
a social, moral, and spiritual malaise overall. The current efforts
to police, invade privacy, and conduct systemic surveillance of
all internet activities are nothing less than "Totalitarian" (read:
China).

While Joseph McCarthy had the excuse of "Communism", Bush
and Congress have the excuse of "terrorism". As Nixon used
political spying and espionage to uncover his "enemies", he was
ensared by his own tape recorder. Today, we witness the same
stratagems used then, the same fear monging, the same casus
belli, the same intent to create a police state - by members of
that same political party.

And, hopefully, the outcome too will be the same as it was in
1954 and 1974.

PS: Americans do catch on eventually. Be patient.

[cnutsucks]

When they begin to track lawmakers FIRST....

When the government (including the idiot FBI director) agrees to have their lives tracked for the
http://www.teckmagazine.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/plextor-px-760a-internal-dvd-drive-review.html
world to see their pedophile behavior, then MAYBE I would consider this outright invasion of privacy.

[tashametego]

Just like Germany today

Did you notice the even more draconian measures adopted by German and the other EU members? If the proposed US policy is Nazi-like...well I guess we have to tip our hats to the originals.

[LLLActive]

YES - I experienced it all

This is where Bush FUD gets a nation.

FUD ? = a manifestation of the appeal to fear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt

....

In the past it was the McCarthian and Evangelical fundamentalists that saw communists and daemons behind every bush, now Bush sees terrorists behind every democratic liberty like privacy and freedom of speech.

...

I experienced it under Nazis in my family and personally in another despotic system like the DDR (German 'Democratic' Rep) and South African Aparteid's National Socialism. The openness of the culture of democracy is usurped to produce a completely transparent citizen, who's information will be misused; no it is not a question of 'if' ? it is only a question of 'when'. If the information could be kept secret and safe, it will be OK. Those who believe it is safe, is "living in cuckoo land"! Bush has shown us how unscrupulous he is with the misinformation and blatant lying about the Iraq war. ?Welcome to 1984?; George Orwell. Phone tapping without legal foundation; Fabricating reasons for and results of wars; removing freedom of speech and misusing privacy; maiming and torture to get the answers you determine to be the truth; legalising the use of such information as truth, like in the middle ages (what kind of legal system allows that? - but where capital punishment is exercised, this primitive age has prevailed).

How do you solve the problem that 'apparently' needs these measures. Everyone knows that injustice breeds contempt and terror. Stop the injustice. Just read your Bible! Psalm 58 - ?1 Do you rulers indeed speak justly? Do you judge uprightly among men? 2 No, in your heart you devise injustice, and your hands mete out violence on the earth.? Also read Micah 3: ?9 So listen to my message, you rulers of Israel (USA)! You hate justice and twist the truth. 10 You make cruelty and murder a way of life in Jerusalem (Washington).? You are a God fearing president's God loving and divinely elected greatest nation on the planet. How do they get it so wrong ??? (I know most US citizens do not share these divinely bestowed beliefs. It is time to rise up and stand for justice. You stood up to Adolf H!) - and I do not need to read the Islamic literature to see the injustice ? it's in the book the president lays his hand on when he makes a 'holy' oath! Someone that is unknowingly doing evil is better off than someone who knowingly under oath is doing evil. For this the Catholics invented purgatory.

[ASTRO6]

Bunch of Indian Givers!

Too late dudes. The Govt used to control the internet WAY BACK in the day when it was in its infancy. They sold it however into private sectors giving up control. NOW, all of the sudden they want "control" again. Because they see how profitable it is! THAT'S WHY! I am so sick of these muthas sticking their noses into private business owners affairs trying to control them. IT'S DISGUSTING!!! Internet pervs and alleged "terrorists" are a very, very tiny fraction of the world wide web. This is but just another GOP BS tactic to get their dirty, greedy hands on anything they can and using the excuse - It's for "the children" it's for "your safety" Thanks, but no thanks! I can take care of myself! Go steal some more oil and mind your own damn business.

[FooKBush]

Our founding Fathers are rolling in there graves

And as far as im conserned any public official that demands , asks for, proposes, votes for this or any other invasion of american privacey no matter how small...should be down there rolling with them.

[enigma.live]

we need more people like you

I have just heard from an undisclosed founding father, and indeed he has confirmed that he is rolling over in his grave right now. In fact he is concerned that George Bush is spying on him right now and is careful of his movements, he believes that they will be attaching an RFID chip or GPS tracking device on his dead body to determine his every move.

[zanzzz]

Total Security

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom."
- Dwight Eisenhower
Well we are all going to prison- step by step. It's all courtesy of a government that has more fear than wisdom. Each new intrusion, inspection, and limitation enacted with the best of intentions upon us by our government transforms our way of life into a system we fought and are fighting wars to resist. Each policy change viewed in isolation seems hardly a threat to the average law abiding person. Who is hurt if all our calls and emails are monitored by government agencies? Why get upset if everything we do is recorded so authorities can later sift through the paper trail to find criminal behavior? Why object to a president that signs a law entitling himself to decide what constitutes torture or who has constitutional rights? Why raise a fuss if our government decides a group or country it distrusts must be attacked now to prevent a possible future threat?
It seems irresistible for a government to always reach for more power, more authority, more instruments to conduct in the illusive goal of greater security. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is one government project we seem to be making much progress in!

[PuurrlGirl]

PRISON PLANET

not just a police state these days - we are living on a PRISON PLANET!!!

[HandGlad2]

I have a better idea

Hey lets just allow the FBI to put wire taps on everyones phone. That is in essence what this is doing, as more people use the internet instead of the phone the FBI forcing companies to record peoples usage of the internet is the same thing as a global wire tap. It doesn't matter if the FBI uses the wire tap, the fact is their are already legal ways for them to tap into peoples communications. The FBI just want to throw away all any right to privacy that we have. Vote democrat and get these power hungery right-wing nuts out of our lives.

[n story]

Right Observation, Wrong Answer

Absolutely true, our government seems to want to take more and
more of our rights and privacy away.

To say it is just because of the Republicans, however, is very naive.
Just look who is introducing the bill . . .
http://news.com.com/Data+retention+bill+expected+next+week/21
00-1028_3-6118283.html?tag=nl
It's a Democrat. Everyone pretty much knows that the Democrats
are more socialist in nature than the Republicans. Hitler was a
socialist. Wait, I'm not saying that Dems are nazis, but that socialist
policies often ask citizens to give up personal rights "for the greater
good." Hitler just used the concept for his own selfish and evil plans.
Republicans, however stupid they are being here, are traditionally
less government and more capitalistic in nature. For capitalism to
thrive it requires a free and open society. Before you jump to
conclusions about people groups, look back into history and study
the philosophies and ideas behind the names you quote. The truth
is that Republicans here are acting more like socialists than capitalists.
Shame on them.

[J_Satch]

Read the article

A Democrat has promised this legislation. We would be better served to vote Democrat and Republican OUT.

[umbrae]

Please contact your local Congressmen...

Please, oh, please contact your congressmen if you are against this. We need them to understand this is unreasonable.

I wonder if they release that this information will be kept on THEIR access as well.

[AgileMolecule]

No, I have the better idea

Let's just clone 240,000,000 FBI ratsnitches and let these freaks live with each and everyone of us in our homes. Do these people even understand the concept of a Limit? I don't think they do.

The FBI Director can take a flying leap from the Statue of Liberty for all I care, since he is pretty much throwing the American Citizen from it anyways.

[umbrae]

Please contact your local Congressmen...

Please, oh, please contact your congressmen if you are against this. We need them to understand this is unreasonable.

I wonder if they release that this information will be kept on THEIR access as well.

[JG725]

FBI rats

Don't even try to keep them off -- they're already spying on you -- and they don't bother asking permissions from anyone, even from Mr President.

[crystallady]

Government and the Internet

Most governments are scared to death of the internet. Now their dark deeds can be flashed around the world by passing boundries and language barriers. It threatens their hold on the people and is harder to control then newspapers and other information media. Anything they can do to sound the death bell on the internet is just to protect their own behinds. Intimidation is the name of this game. If they really wanted to get the porno off the web they could do so. Just shut the filth down. This is just the excuse to find a way to curtail the peoples right to know. I am sure registaring on this web site will put me on somebody's watch list.

[extinctone]

You People are Un-American

I guess you people want the terrorist to win? You people are all un-American. I'm going to be a good American and report all your names over to the FBI. Dear Leader will be so proud of me!

[AgileMolecule]

Ha-ha

You naughty widew wat....

[Tomcat Adam]

Scary.

The scary part is that your post was indistinguishable from reality up until the last sentance.

Very funny, though.

[anarchyreigns]

You're an utter moron. Go away, clueless clown.

<eom>

[bvdon]

This is not America

Data Retention is akin to recording everything you say in the
privacy of your house... you know, just in case you turn out to be a
criminal - we need to have that.

I hope people are going to fight this.

[LLLActive]

Pre-Crime ?

...
The year is 2054. In many ways, the United States is the same five decades into the future as it is today, but, in other, important ways, it has changed. Washington D.C., once the murder capital of the union, is now the safest place to live - thanks in large part to the Department of Pre-Crime, an elite taskforce of law officers who, by using the predictive capabilities of three captive "precogs", know that a murder is going to happen before it takes place. Armed with that knowledge, they can arrest someone before he actually kills, saving the victim(s) and preventing the crime.

Minority Report - not so strange after all... Bush is exporting (besides democracy) a global Pre-Crime effort .... together wirh his new "Space Policy"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/18_10_06_usspace.pdf
A small sample:

?To achieve the goals of this policy, the Secretary of Defense shall:
? Maintain the capabilities to execute the space support, force enhancement, space control,
and force application missions;
? Establish specific intelligence requirements that can be met by tactical, operational, or
national-level intelligence gathering capabilities;
? Provide, as launch agent for both the defense and intelligence sectors, reliable, affordable,
and timely space access for national security purposes;
? Provide space capabilities to support continuous, global strategic and tactical warning as well as multi-layered and integrated missile defenses;
? Develop capabilities, plans, and options to ensure freedom of action in space, and, if
directed, deny such freedom of action to adversaries;?

Who are the adversaries - the Axis-of-Evil now, anyone next - no still better; everyone is denied the freedom. What arrogance? The Chinese will not obey! This is the reason why Iran, Pakistan, N.Korea and others are also working on it to get nuclear arms to keep US warmongers at bay. Bush has made it all far worse, and there is no turnabout any more ... The Nuclear arms race has just started thanks to the US-Oligarchical imperialistic tendencies (Europe as the biggest imperialists of them all, closed that chapter not so long ago).

...

[jendeb2010]

This legislation, while fair, invites fanaticism.

I applaud the FBI directors goal of enhancing law enforcements ability to prosecute criminal activity. The dilemma is that the proposed legislation is has aroused intense privacy concerns. My real fear is that anti-government fanatics on both the far right and far left will be inspired to brutally assassinate government officials and their families in a misguided effort to "get even" with a government they percieve as being too intrusive in their personal lives. I don't want to see bombs going off on Capitol Hill, with bloodied innocents emptying out of firey buildings only to be gunned down by waiting squads of "militia" dispensing warped "justice". This legislation has practical merit, but privacy concerns must be addressed in detail lest a tragedy befall this great nation.

[FooKBush]

Just two words for your view...

**** OFF

and go to north korea i,m sure they will protect you.

[chris_d]

here's where your tax dollars are going

The Bush Admin. has spent close to $2 billion on spin, something the Government Accountability Office called "blatantly illegal". Now it's been revealed that the administration is paying people to go out and make comments on blogs in an expansion of the propaganda war on the American people. This comment I am replying to appears to be just such a piece of propaganda. Good job, I say! You have earned your money well!

[enigma.live]

You are BLIND. YOU ARE THE TRAGEDY

you state, "lest a tragedy befall this great nation."

Wake up, you and your comments are the tragedy that has ALREADY BEFALLEN, this once great country.

Too late pal...bumbling idiot

[RichAndPretty]

What's the big deal?

Phone companies regularly keep our phone records, and when properly obtained by warrant, they have proven to be very valuable in solving crimes. I don't see how this differs, except to the paranoid, that is.

RAP

[AgileMolecule]

Smile (I appreciate your trust, but....)

Paranoid is what I would call law-enforcement privacy-stripping activities at this point in time.

And, since the article is NOT addressing phone records you, predictably, will not see it addressed in these privacy-advocating comments.

The whittle effect is in play here. Law enforcement is stepping over the line and will continue to push the limits of privacy-invasion until someone who actually has some IQ about it can step in and get the system balanced.

[Orange County Ca]

They'll abuse it.

No power the government is given or takes remains unabused by that government.

[JohnnyL]

No Real Need...

When you think about it, there is no more justification for tracking our every online move than than there would be for tracking what we do in our everyday lives. So far I haven't heard of any terrorist investigations that have been foiled by the inability to sift internet records. Seems like the only crimes being committed these days is terrorism and sexual predation....or these are the ones that are being brought up on a regular basis to justify just about any invasion into our private lives. I do know that if they start to track searched, my local libraries are going to start showing up as hot beds of terrorism and sexual depravity....at least it will look that way when they start to go through the records. Everyone should start doing that. Once a week, go to your library and start searching for how to build bombs, famous landmark bluprints, kiddie porn, anything you can think of. Have some fun with it....cause you know that pretty soon, if they can get this through they will start to look at the records without even getting a warrant. Lets fuzz up the records. Put so much static out there that it clouds up eveything. I know I'm going to do my part.

[Mage99]

Read the article before you jerk your knee...

The article clearly states that to comply with US law US ISP's must retain at least 90 days worth of IP usage data i.e. who used the IP not what data was passed. By law that both types of data can only be obtained with a court order i.e. subpeona by law enforcement. All this says is that they may by law to make the retention time longer i.e. six months like the EU laws require. Again ISP's already provide this data, it's nothing new and they've been doing it for YEARS, to GET THE BAD GUYS. And unless your against persuing child predators and scam artists ripping off the elderly, this type of legislation shouldnt scare anybody.

[capitalanarchist]

Read the Declaration of Independence...

...before you flap your yap. The government, if it has my consent at all, has it only insofar as it is using the just powers implied by that consent to protect my rights. Period. I'm capable of finding other ways to pursue bad guys, ways that don't involve pursuing good guys, too. BTW, I'm scared of the exercise of illegitimate power, not its enabling legislation, and you would be too if you had more than four grey cells hooked up in parallel.

[matt_parker]

Where Are The Limitations and Target Definitions?

They say they want this information to catch pedophiles or terrorists, but I have yet to see a deinition of a terrorist. It can mean anyone that the government doesn't like. The government has no business regulating private companies for their own ends. They need to go through the proper channels and get a judge to approve surveillance before they snoop on whomever they want. There is simply way too much room for abuse in the name of the law. They are counting on the general public to have the attitude that if you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about.

[tmeyers]

I agree....

...Freedom was a great ride. I'm sorry to see it go.Governments cannot be trusted with personal information. It is simply too tempting for them to stretch the limits. One day you're legitimately hunting terrorists, then "suspected terrorists", then "individuals who fit "terrorist profiles", then individuals who participate in what are deemed "anti-American" activities, then ...well, that's the end...welcome to China.

[Dalkorian]

Fine

No problem. Once the government can prove that it can secure
our private data and not lose it in yet another "break-in" or "lost
laptop".

Since they obviously can NOT accomplish that simple task, I say
they should WORK WITH THE LAWS THEY ALREADY HAVE!

Come on people, do you really believe that the guilty have gone
free due to the ISP's not working with the police? DEE-DEE-DEE!
How stupid can you be? Re-read that article, the ISP's are already
retaining data for police use. The issue isn't the data isn't there,
the issue is the government can't go back 6 months to find
skeletons in the closet of AMERICANS who don't agree with their
draconian, nazi view on the world.

WAKE UP PEOPLE - IMPEACH THE SON OF A BUSH!! NOW!!!

[Dalkorian]

case in point

Right from this very site!

<http://news.com.com/2061-10789_3-6126816.html?
part=rss&tag=6126816&subj=news>

Until "accidents" like this are halted entirely, I say we TAKE AWAY
our government power to violate the privacy of AMERICAN
CITIZENS! I mean really now, isn't identity theft enough of a
problem already?

If you're still thinking this is OK, keep in mind the two key
phrases they are using to push through this nazi trash -
"terrorists" and "child molesters". Remember they use that same
line anytime they want to trample on YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL
RIGHTS!

It's not about terrorist or child molesters, they can catch them
now with the tools they already have (if they wanted to, but then
they couldn't use these "magic" phrases anymore). It's about
keeping tabs on the government's enemies, both foreign AND
DOMESTIC! No, I'm not talking about domestic terrorists, but
political demonstrators and true PATRIOTS.

Remember who the true enemies of America are. They are not
hiding in spider holes in some desert, nor being tried in some
Iraqi show trial, nor are they prancing around the Tora Bora
mountains. THEY ARE IN THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW!!!

[waterspider]

FBI

Someone has to do it. The FBI can't figure out who is in the office on any given day.

[enigma.live]

All Libertarians..Vote DEMOCRAT this time

The only possible fight we have to protect our rights without taking drastic measures is to VOTE DEMOCRAT...unfortunately the reality is in most all cases is when it's a Presidential or Congressional race then it's either going to be a Republican or Democrat and if you think an independent is going to do something, forget it. Yes, it's the worse of two evils right now. Republicans are unprecendently trampling on our privacy rights and all other rights. Simply they are arrogant and don't care. The only ones who have really done something to uphold the constitution is Democrats, and I'm no Democrat, but look at the judges behind some of the best upholding of constitutional rights, they were appointed by Democrats. If you want your rights as an American citizen, vote Democrat!!!

[TheNightFly]

Heck No! Libertarians should always vote Libertarian!

As was mentioned in an ealier comment, this policy is being proposed by a Democrat. And, this is just one of many examples that prove that Republicans and Democrats are just opposite sides of the same coin- Republicrats. They pretend to vie for control but it's just as fake as WWC wrestling. They all support unlimited forced taxation and unconstitutional legislation. We don't need to spy on anyone to prevent terrorism, we need better boarder security, guest identification and tracking. We don't need to collect internet IP records to protect our children from violent sexual preditors, we need parents to control their childrens internet access and teach them not to trust strangers in person.

[capitalanarchist]

All libertarians...vote NOT this time

No, that's not NOTA, that's DON'T VOTE. Not even for a Libertarian. The election system has been hijacked and is completely under the control of the two branches of the Incumbent Party. The Dems and the Reps may want to drive in slightly different directions, but they both want us all to bend over so they can drive away as pleases them. Don't lend your name and acquiescence support their scam. UNREGISTER.

[Jim Hubbard]

Dems should vote Libertarian...

....aww crap! I forgot, the democratic party is the party of MORE government, MORE taxes and MORE dependency.

My bad. Sorry.

[Sunflare98]

A step closer to 1984

So it starts with wire tapping, continues on to Internet usage, and
then culminates with chips, GPS, and cameras everywhere. Doesn't
anybody remember 1984 and the story of Big Brother?