Comments on: Alternative browsers pose challenge for cybersleuths

The advent of Firefox and Opera means cybercops have to learn new tricks to conduct successful investigations.

standardization

Yeah, I really agree with CNET on this one. Speaking of standardization, you know what sucks for mechanics? That there is more than one type of car in the world. Nissans, Mazdas, Toyotas, Hondas have different engines, body designs, and electronic systems than their ford counterparts. This makes it extremely difficult for mechanics to do their job, because not everything is in the exact same place as a taurus. Why do mechanics have to go through ALL of that trouble of looking through pictures in a manual or even, READING ONE, once in a while? Why cant there just be ONE type of car in the universe? It may get horrible gas mileage and break down alot, but damnit, its popular. It would make mechanics' lives so much easier, dont you think?

Jesus. Is this story some kind of way late april fools joke?

You must get $$ from Microsoft

Why else would you call these "Alternative" browsers?

If people think that anything by IE is an "Alternative" browser, then this fact just strengthens the case for Microsoft's blatant anti trust exploits.

You must get $$ from Microsoft

Why else would you call these "Alternative" browsers?

If people think that anything by IE is an "Alternative" browser, then this fact just strengthens the case for Microsoft's blatant anti trust exploits.

[leguirerj]

Federal mandate to use IE

There will be soon a Federal Mandate to only use IE for web browsing! Since it is only available for Windows, no one is allowed to use an alternate OS!
Microsoft Wins! I just go goo goo for MS!

[leguirerj]

Federal mandate to use IE

There will be soon a Federal Mandate to only use IE for web browsing! Since it is only available for Windows, no one is allowed to use an alternate OS!
Microsoft Wins! I just go goo goo for MS!

Well, I hear McDonalds is hiring.

Seriously, if these guys are really this challenged by the extremely straightforward way that modern browsers store data, then perhaps they should look for a position in fast food, or perhaps ditch-digging. Hopefully this 'reporter' can put out a story that has a bit more basis in reality next time. Perhaps the author ought to verify something is realistic before publishing a story, instead of just talking to the people on one side of an issue and assuming it's true? Hmmm... thought this was covered in the introductory level journalism courses....

[teknight]

Reality Check.

This is definately an important issue concerning computer forensics because getting evidence in a manner that's acceptable to a court of law is very hard to do. You can't just say, "Uh, yea I found this evidence here by myself..." You need to use court approved scripted evidence gathering programs like Encase in order to get court worthy material. If alternative browers are being used that store information in another location, it makes investigative work much hard to preform since the program's script might not pick it up. If you have to manually direct Encase to document the information for the new browser, it's going to be a major time sink and pain in the butt- especially when you have a 4 hour deadline to make. It's not like investigators have all the time in the world to toy around with a suspect system, you have to use scripts and all the tools available to make the job as quick and efficent as possible.

Well, I hear McDonalds is hiring.

Seriously, if these guys are really this challenged by the extremely straightforward way that modern browsers store data, then perhaps they should look for a position in fast food, or perhaps ditch-digging. Hopefully this 'reporter' can put out a story that has a bit more basis in reality next time. Perhaps the author ought to verify something is realistic before publishing a story, instead of just talking to the people on one side of an issue and assuming it's true? Hmmm... thought this was covered in the introductory level journalism courses....

[teknight]

Reality Check.

This is definately an important issue concerning computer forensics because getting evidence in a manner that's acceptable to a court of law is very hard to do. You can't just say, "Uh, yea I found this evidence here by myself..." You need to use court approved scripted evidence gathering programs like Encase in order to get court worthy material. If alternative browers are being used that store information in another location, it makes investigative work much hard to preform since the program's script might not pick it up. If you have to manually direct Encase to document the information for the new browser, it's going to be a major time sink and pain in the butt- especially when you have a 4 hour deadline to make. It's not like investigators have all the time in the world to toy around with a suspect system, you have to use scripts and all the tools available to make the job as quick and efficent as possible.

[rdean]

Well Boo Hoo Hoo

Waah, the consumers get to do what they want.

Sorry to sound unsympathetic, but they should grow a brain and learn to cope.

[rdean]

Well Boo Hoo Hoo

Waah, the consumers get to do what they want.

Sorry to sound unsympathetic, but they should grow a brain and learn to cope.

[Transaction7]

Cybercops, Browsers, Bad Guys, & Our Privacy

While I believe it is nobody's business what sites I visit, I have typed in and gone to some by mistake that shocked me,and my computer, although on line, should be secure from prying eyes as my desk or safe, I do want the honest cops to catch the terrorists, and child pornographers,and scam artists on line. Maybe we should require warrants for this kind of sleuthing, and restrict it to HOmeland Security, law enforcement, and the National Committeetee for Missing & Exploited Children, and require warrants, but does anyone know when, or if, a magistrate ever turned down a warrant application? Private snooping into this kind of thing should be treated like burglary and private possession of my browsing history should be a felony, aggravated in the case of a commercial data colector, broker etc. Now do any of the experts know how we can protect our legitimate privacy while still allowing the duly constituted authorities and legitimate outfits to catch the really bad guys?

[Transaction7]

Cybercops, Browsers, Bad Guys, & Our Privacy

While I believe it is nobody's business what sites I visit, I have typed in and gone to some by mistake that shocked me,and my computer, although on line, should be secure from prying eyes as my desk or safe, I do want the honest cops to catch the terrorists, and child pornographers,and scam artists on line. Maybe we should require warrants for this kind of sleuthing, and restrict it to HOmeland Security, law enforcement, and the National Committeetee for Missing & Exploited Children, and require warrants, but does anyone know when, or if, a magistrate ever turned down a warrant application? Private snooping into this kind of thing should be treated like burglary and private possession of my browsing history should be a felony, aggravated in the case of a commercial data colector, broker etc. Now do any of the experts know how we can protect our legitimate privacy while still allowing the duly constituted authorities and legitimate outfits to catch the really bad guys?

[nuopus]

Because they are not coders

The reason these people cannot figure out the file locations or structure of files based on the already provided source code is because these investigators are really not "computer people".

They know how to use a computer and are taught tricks ... but when it comes to software source code or even figuring out their OWN solutions to a problem they are all lost.

What they need to do is hire some people who are REALLY computer literate to do the computer investigation. Currently, most are like the new computer user who has been using AOL for a week and now he thinks he is a computer master.

[nuopus]

Because they are not coders

The reason these people cannot figure out the file locations or structure of files based on the already provided source code is because these investigators are really not "computer people".

They know how to use a computer and are taught tricks ... but when it comes to software source code or even figuring out their OWN solutions to a problem they are all lost.

What they need to do is hire some people who are REALLY computer literate to do the computer investigation. Currently, most are like the new computer user who has been using AOL for a week and now he thinks he is a computer master.

[nuopus]

Are we to all wear the same face?

Does this story take the side that third party browsers should not be used because it makes it hard on everyone?

All computer programs ... ALL of them store files in different locations and in different formats. Why should everyone program their software identically just because a few computer illiterates in law inforcement do not know how to work with computer files?

Should all car manufacturers build a car to work the same way so that the non-automotives can learn to work on all cars at once? I mean ... get real.

The reason I love being an American is because of freedom of choice. If I want to draw my picture my way ... I can do it. If I want to walk my own way ... I can do it. If I want to build a snowman my way .... I can do it. And if I want to write my software MY way ... I had better be able to do that also without some illiterate yuppie telling me it must be a certain way so that other people can break it.

[nuopus]

Are we to all wear the same face?

Does this story take the side that third party browsers should not be used because it makes it hard on everyone?

All computer programs ... ALL of them store files in different locations and in different formats. Why should everyone program their software identically just because a few computer illiterates in law inforcement do not know how to work with computer files?

Should all car manufacturers build a car to work the same way so that the non-automotives can learn to work on all cars at once? I mean ... get real.

The reason I love being an American is because of freedom of choice. If I want to draw my picture my way ... I can do it. If I want to walk my own way ... I can do it. If I want to build a snowman my way .... I can do it. And if I want to write my software MY way ... I had better be able to do that also without some illiterate yuppie telling me it must be a certain way so that other people can break it.

[Des Alba]

If you don't want people snooping...

...erase your cache, cookies, and history file, no matter which browser you use. Or write a routine that cleans everything up when you shut down. Depends on if you have something to hide, I guess. It isn't only the Feds and Law Enforcement that snoop on your PC data, it can be any hacker/cracker worth his salt. It's always a good idea to keep the minimum of info on a PC with 'net access. You never know who's watching you.......

[teknight]

Deleting files isn't the answer

Computer forensics specialists can easily retrieve deleted files. So Good Luck trying this solution.

[Des Alba]

If you don't want people snooping...

...erase your cache, cookies, and history file, no matter which browser you use. Or write a routine that cleans everything up when you shut down. Depends on if you have something to hide, I guess. It isn't only the Feds and Law Enforcement that snoop on your PC data, it can be any hacker/cracker worth his salt. It's always a good idea to keep the minimum of info on a PC with 'net access. You never know who's watching you.......

[teknight]

Deleting files isn't the answer

Computer forensics specialists can easily retrieve deleted files. So Good Luck trying this solution.

Keep it simple

Ok, life threw the a curve ball at you. Are you going to stand there and tell the pitch I can't hit that it is moving? Here's an idea... ask yourself how can I do this, how can I hit the ball. If you jump in their with a solution you might even make money at it, like a professional in job. It is software, if you need information, have a software engineer build a program to gather the information and display it to you if you don't want to find it yourselves. Sell the software to the donut eaters across the country.

Keep it simple

Ok, life threw the a curve ball at you. Are you going to stand there and tell the pitch I can't hit that it is moving? Here's an idea... ask yourself how can I do this, how can I hit the ball. If you jump in their with a solution you might even make money at it, like a professional in job. It is software, if you need information, have a software engineer build a program to gather the information and display it to you if you don't want to find it yourselves. Sell the software to the donut eaters across the country.

[mnmus]

That's not the half of it

Not know where Opera/Firefox stores browser cache, etc.? Poor pseudo-professional "cybersleuths"--wah.

*sheesh* Probably have a hard time with my machines, anyway, since

1.) Opera's set on them to empty all cache.history info every time it's exited and I'm paranoid*, so
2.) Security software's set to wipe free space daily.
3.) Files created personally by me: multi-backups, encrypted and under lock and key. If some snoop wants that info, they're gonna have to work for it.

You mean most people don't clean up after themselves as a matter of course? :-)

*not really paranoid, just a wee tad curmudgeonly and KNOW the government has a habit of sticking its nose in where it doesn't belong. My computers (and my data) are mine, dammit.