Comments on: 'Sandal and ponytail set' cramping Linux adoption?

Yes, says former Massachusetts CIO Peter Quinn. To be taken seriously, open-source community needs to dress the part.

[Tiger1964]

That not the problem

In my opinion the problem is simple. Linux comes in too many
"flavors". I have tried several distros and all of them were
different in the driver support and applications. Some distros
use rpms, some debs and who knows what else. Getting the
same application to run on the various flavors and kernals is
somewhat of a challenge for the average (read not tech people)
person. It seems to me that a universal installer and a
consensus on the kernal used would simplify the process and
Linux would be more universally adoptable.

Until Linux becomes "one" like Windows or OSX, it will not be the
choice of the masses and software companies seeking to make
money will avoid it like the plague.

[Sboston]

No,

Business people don't care how it works as long as it does work. They have IT staff to run/maintain the stuff for them.

[Tiger1964]

That not the problem

In my opinion the problem is simple. Linux comes in too many
"flavors". I have tried several distros and all of them were
different in the driver support and applications. Some distros
use rpms, some debs and who knows what else. Getting the
same application to run on the various flavors and kernals is
somewhat of a challenge for the average (read not tech people)
person. It seems to me that a universal installer and a
consensus on the kernal used would simplify the process and
Linux would be more universally adoptable.

Until Linux becomes "one" like Windows or OSX, it will not be the
choice of the masses and software companies seeking to make
money will avoid it like the plague.

[Sboston]

No,

Business people don't care how it works as long as it does work. They have IT staff to run/maintain the stuff for them.

[XB-70]

Quinn's so right

I've been involved in the opensource community for years. So many people have tremendous ideas; the problem is that they are truly not skilled at communicating them. If you want to get Open Source accepted by the business community, it had to be professionally marketed and presented. You have to show a clear path to increased profitability and/or reduced costs. You just can't simply say it's better because it is - management needs proof positive before they can commit vast sums and resources to the better alternative.

[XB-70]

Quinn's so right

I've been involved in the opensource community for years. So many people have tremendous ideas; the problem is that they are truly not skilled at communicating them. If you want to get Open Source accepted by the business community, it had to be professionally marketed and presented. You have to show a clear path to increased profitability and/or reduced costs. You just can't simply say it's better because it is - management needs proof positive before they can commit vast sums and resources to the better alternative.

[theoldman59]

It's a combination of problems

There are a series of problems with Open Source
1. Software quality is definately a problem. Linux (depending in distro) and Open Office are fine. Just about everything else is suspect.

2. There isn't enough software. Windoze covers virtually every aspect of business, hobbies and games. Even in business, Open source lacks. Virutally no drafting (AutoCad) and other specialties

3. Open source proponents have absolutely no clue about business. Take a look past "Free" to what the business really needs. Cost of software (including Windoze) is only a few percent of total costs over the life of the computer. User familiarity (Training) costs lots more than any OS.

Mostly, the Rebel Attitude is killing Open Source. Linux is slowly gaining in the Server dept, but, that is a very technical area. If Open Source is ever to compete with Windoze, then, it has to move out of the back room and into the front office. Won't happen until the community gains trust of Management.

Just ask yourself, "What has the IT Department done to gain Management's trust lately?"

That question might be the real key.

[naddy69]

Until there is real Marketing...

Nothing will change in LinuxLand. You don't send programmers out to clients to sell the product, just as you don't have marketers coding the product. Both are necessary, but they are not interchangeable.

I've been programming for many many years. I wouldn't dream of going on a sales call, and none of the sales folks would dream of asking me. It just isn't done, and for good reason.

"Open Source" or "Closed Source" - it doesn't matter. Just like 10 years ago when the Java People thought all you had to say was "It's written in Java" would produce an instant sale! Business doesn't care about things like that, or the latest buzzword. Business wants a stable, professional company behind the product they are buying, not a bunch of immature-looking hippies.

Whether they like it or not is beside the point. If they want Linux/"Open Source" to succeed, they will have to learn to Play The Game.

[rcsteiner]

Yes and no.

I'm not sure that I completely agree with your assessment. (1) There a quite a number of core open source projects which are of very high quality which you don't list including key ones like Apache, Perl, FreeBSD, Firefox, and GCC. They still represent a fairly small number relative to the total number of projects out there, but they're a lot more than Linux and OO. (2) No, there isn't enough software, but some types of software are so complex (large applkications) or require such specialized skills (games) that they don't lend themselves well to volunteer projects. (3) Companies like IBM might disagree about the lack of business acumen amoung open source proponents. I do agree that much of the problem relates to management acceptance, but so many managers are relatively clueless about real world functionality (they seem more impressed with brand names and Gartner reports than hard up times or support costs) and are a very hard sell unless you are also a manager. Perhaps that's the answer -- more programmers should get MBAs so they can speak the language (and get inside the heads) of upper management.

[Bill Dautrive]

re

1. Everything else is suspect? On what planet? Ever heard of Firefox, Apache(THE largest server market share), mySQL, ect. You are obviously ignorant of open source.

2. True to an extent

3. Who cares? Open source could care less about what some brain dead businessment thinks of software. Businessmen don't have a clue about tech stuff. Training does not cost more on Linux, who told you that lie, MS?

Ask yourself this: What has MS done to gain managements trust lately? Unsecure systems, constant need to bring down systems to apply buggy patches, risk of getting hacked, ect.

[theoldman59]

It's a combination of problems

There are a series of problems with Open Source
1. Software quality is definately a problem. Linux (depending in distro) and Open Office are fine. Just about everything else is suspect.

2. There isn't enough software. Windoze covers virtually every aspect of business, hobbies and games. Even in business, Open source lacks. Virutally no drafting (AutoCad) and other specialties

3. Open source proponents have absolutely no clue about business. Take a look past "Free" to what the business really needs. Cost of software (including Windoze) is only a few percent of total costs over the life of the computer. User familiarity (Training) costs lots more than any OS.

Mostly, the Rebel Attitude is killing Open Source. Linux is slowly gaining in the Server dept, but, that is a very technical area. If Open Source is ever to compete with Windoze, then, it has to move out of the back room and into the front office. Won't happen until the community gains trust of Management.

Just ask yourself, "What has the IT Department done to gain Management's trust lately?"

That question might be the real key.

[naddy69]

Until there is real Marketing...

Nothing will change in LinuxLand. You don't send programmers out to clients to sell the product, just as you don't have marketers coding the product. Both are necessary, but they are not interchangeable.

I've been programming for many many years. I wouldn't dream of going on a sales call, and none of the sales folks would dream of asking me. It just isn't done, and for good reason.

"Open Source" or "Closed Source" - it doesn't matter. Just like 10 years ago when the Java People thought all you had to say was "It's written in Java" would produce an instant sale! Business doesn't care about things like that, or the latest buzzword. Business wants a stable, professional company behind the product they are buying, not a bunch of immature-looking hippies.

Whether they like it or not is beside the point. If they want Linux/"Open Source" to succeed, they will have to learn to Play The Game.

[rcsteiner]

Yes and no.

I'm not sure that I completely agree with your assessment. (1) There a quite a number of core open source projects which are of very high quality which you don't list including key ones like Apache, Perl, FreeBSD, Firefox, and GCC. They still represent a fairly small number relative to the total number of projects out there, but they're a lot more than Linux and OO. (2) No, there isn't enough software, but some types of software are so complex (large applkications) or require such specialized skills (games) that they don't lend themselves well to volunteer projects. (3) Companies like IBM might disagree about the lack of business acumen amoung open source proponents. I do agree that much of the problem relates to management acceptance, but so many managers are relatively clueless about real world functionality (they seem more impressed with brand names and Gartner reports than hard up times or support costs) and are a very hard sell unless you are also a manager. Perhaps that's the answer -- more programmers should get MBAs so they can speak the language (and get inside the heads) of upper management.

[Bill Dautrive]

re

1. Everything else is suspect? On what planet? Ever heard of Firefox, Apache(THE largest server market share), mySQL, ect. You are obviously ignorant of open source.

2. True to an extent

3. Who cares? Open source could care less about what some brain dead businessment thinks of software. Businessmen don't have a clue about tech stuff. Training does not cost more on Linux, who told you that lie, MS?

Ask yourself this: What has MS done to gain managements trust lately? Unsecure systems, constant need to bring down systems to apply buggy patches, risk of getting hacked, ect.

[Blito]

Short hair != success // bad article too

Humph I look at plentny of 'open source people' and they look clean and pretty cool if you ask me instead of another fool in a ceep suit and bondagy nek-ctie. I am against baggy dirty pants though.

Anyway I am all for formal dress but that doesn't neccessarily equal a tie. A person can have long hair and where a colorfull robe for instance. Sorry but America needs more culture and that's the whole problem with today's homoginized society. Everyone looks like a fool with cheap ties or diryy baggy pants

Whatever the dress as long as it's quality and clean it's diverse and brings out the charecter in people.

[Blito]

Short hair != success // bad article too

Humph I look at plentny of 'open source people' and they look clean and pretty cool if you ask me instead of another fool in a ceep suit and bondagy nek-ctie. I am against baggy dirty pants though.

Anyway I am all for formal dress but that doesn't neccessarily equal a tie. A person can have long hair and where a colorfull robe for instance. Sorry but America needs more culture and that's the whole problem with today's homoginized society. Everyone looks like a fool with cheap ties or diryy baggy pants

Whatever the dress as long as it's quality and clean it's diverse and brings out the charecter in people.

[patgrahamblock]

I think the time has come...

For folks to be judged on merit and not looks.

Pat Graham-Block

[patgrahamblock]

I think the time has come...

For folks to be judged on merit and not looks.

Pat Graham-Block

[fakespam]

American Beauty

If order to be successful, one must project success.

Case in point, the TWiTs all dress nicely, and the NerdTV
interviewees are all dressed nicely, as well as Robert X. Cringely
himself.

Dressing well is advertisement to the word about who a person
is, then speaking well, then thinking well as one is going about
in action, so forth and so on.

After all, who would you most likely trust with watching your
house while you are away on a trip?

A) Fred Plaid, sells used cares with sawdust in the gas tank, sold
his mother to a circus for a cone and a sucker.

B) Big Bill, rides a Harley, smokes pot on weekends, has been in
trouble with the law a few times.

C) Alice Allison, lives next door, godmother to your children,
always looks like, speaks very well.

D) Big Bob, owns a Fortune 500 company, rides a Harley, but has
never been in trouble with the law. Married Alice LOL.

Just thoughts.

Still, what Linux really needs (and frankly, I don't give a damn
who looks like what when they're programming) is to ditch open
source.

Don't like it? Well, Mark Twain didn't get rich because he used
photocopied his own books at his own expense and gave them
out for free in a crate on the side of the road in New York,
letting other authors add to his tales. Actually, from local
legends about Twain here, he's just about kill you for messing
with his stories.

Think about it. Open Source is just that. I'll make a product,
dump it out there for free. Let others tinker with it. I don't want
a cent. But I'm not really motivated to fix it, either. It's why less
people use Linux over Mac, even.

Time for change. Ten years almost, and . . .

Linux is insane: Constant doing the same thing expecting
different results. Microsoft and Apple still dominate, big corps
have switched back from Linux to UNIX, Mac OS, or Windows XP
Pro or Server 2K3.

Linux now needs to do something that gets different results.

Perhaps if HP were to start offering really good, budget PCs with
a fully-functional Linux OS and other perks, and still plays
Windows software via "Classic" mode (Mac OS X users know what
I'm talking about).

Just a thought.

[Bill Dautrive]

Truly clueless

"Dressing well is advertisement to the word about who a person is"

Yup, wearing a suit says: "I know you only care about my looks and since we are both so shallow we will great along great"

What does A,B, C or D have to do with anything. This is total nonsense and off-point.

"hink about it. Open Source is just that. I'll make a product, dump it out there for free. Let others tinker with it. I don't want a cent."

That is a truly stupid comment. DO you realize that billions of dollars are generated every year by open source?

"Just a thought"

I suppose that is a thought, too bad it is complete illogical and wrong.

[fakespam]

American Beauty

If order to be successful, one must project success.

Case in point, the TWiTs all dress nicely, and the NerdTV
interviewees are all dressed nicely, as well as Robert X. Cringely
himself.

Dressing well is advertisement to the word about who a person
is, then speaking well, then thinking well as one is going about
in action, so forth and so on.

After all, who would you most likely trust with watching your
house while you are away on a trip?

A) Fred Plaid, sells used cares with sawdust in the gas tank, sold
his mother to a circus for a cone and a sucker.

B) Big Bill, rides a Harley, smokes pot on weekends, has been in
trouble with the law a few times.

C) Alice Allison, lives next door, godmother to your children,
always looks like, speaks very well.

D) Big Bob, owns a Fortune 500 company, rides a Harley, but has
never been in trouble with the law. Married Alice LOL.

Just thoughts.

Still, what Linux really needs (and frankly, I don't give a damn
who looks like what when they're programming) is to ditch open
source.

Don't like it? Well, Mark Twain didn't get rich because he used
photocopied his own books at his own expense and gave them
out for free in a crate on the side of the road in New York,
letting other authors add to his tales. Actually, from local
legends about Twain here, he's just about kill you for messing
with his stories.

Think about it. Open Source is just that. I'll make a product,
dump it out there for free. Let others tinker with it. I don't want
a cent. But I'm not really motivated to fix it, either. It's why less
people use Linux over Mac, even.

Time for change. Ten years almost, and . . .

Linux is insane: Constant doing the same thing expecting
different results. Microsoft and Apple still dominate, big corps
have switched back from Linux to UNIX, Mac OS, or Windows XP
Pro or Server 2K3.

Linux now needs to do something that gets different results.

Perhaps if HP were to start offering really good, budget PCs with
a fully-functional Linux OS and other perks, and still plays
Windows software via "Classic" mode (Mac OS X users know what
I'm talking about).

Just a thought.

[Bill Dautrive]

Truly clueless

"Dressing well is advertisement to the word about who a person is"

Yup, wearing a suit says: "I know you only care about my looks and since we are both so shallow we will great along great"

What does A,B, C or D have to do with anything. This is total nonsense and off-point.

"hink about it. Open Source is just that. I'll make a product, dump it out there for free. Let others tinker with it. I don't want a cent."

That is a truly stupid comment. DO you realize that billions of dollars are generated every year by open source?

"Just a thought"

I suppose that is a thought, too bad it is complete illogical and wrong.

[zedvee]

Peter Quinn is a LACKEY

Oh dear Mr. Quinn, the only reason that the governments and other communities haven't adopted linux is because people are too ******* stupid and lazy and make ASININE presumptions about it: just like the ridiculous statement you just made about 'pony tails' and 'sandals'. It's an attack not on sloth nor any other thing that affects WORK PERFORMANCE and anybody going along with this sort of thought is welcome to get a gun and go fight, and get killed, in Iraq or move to a 3rd world country in order to do something that would promote world peace. East coast CRETIN!

[zedvee]

Peter Quinn is a LACKEY

Oh dear Mr. Quinn, the only reason that the governments and other communities haven't adopted linux is because people are too ******* stupid and lazy and make ASININE presumptions about it: just like the ridiculous statement you just made about 'pony tails' and 'sandals'. It's an attack not on sloth nor any other thing that affects WORK PERFORMANCE and anybody going along with this sort of thought is welcome to get a gun and go fight, and get killed, in Iraq or move to a 3rd world country in order to do something that would promote world peace. East coast CRETIN!

[zizzybaloobah]

I've experienced this phenomenon myself

In one company where I worked the ancient mainframe was considered more reliable than our LAN server.

In reality: the mainframe crashed almost daily, didn't use databases (everything was text files) and it hard drives the size of washing machines. Meanwhile the server ran for months without interrruption and provided many strategic benefits for our employees.

What was the difference? The mainframe personnel wore shirts and ties (and very often suit jackets) and everything was in a pristine server room. The network guys were in Polo shirts and khakis who worked in moderatley disorganized cubicles.

[Bill Dautrive]

illogical

Put those poor saps in suits. Do you really think they will suddenly become clowns?

Judge the group with regards to its work ethic and technical knowlege and you will see the suits are just superficial nonsense.

Reason #5489548053454352145 why businessmen are idiots.

Jello Biafra has the right idea: "require all businessmen to wear clown suits from 9-5."

[zizzybaloobah]

I've experienced this phenomenon myself

In one company where I worked the ancient mainframe was considered more reliable than our LAN server.

In reality: the mainframe crashed almost daily, didn't use databases (everything was text files) and it hard drives the size of washing machines. Meanwhile the server ran for months without interrruption and provided many strategic benefits for our employees.

What was the difference? The mainframe personnel wore shirts and ties (and very often suit jackets) and everything was in a pristine server room. The network guys were in Polo shirts and khakis who worked in moderatley disorganized cubicles.

[Bill Dautrive]

illogical

Put those poor saps in suits. Do you really think they will suddenly become clowns?

Judge the group with regards to its work ethic and technical knowlege and you will see the suits are just superficial nonsense.

Reason #5489548053454352145 why businessmen are idiots.

Jello Biafra has the right idea: "require all businessmen to wear clown suits from 9-5."

[Bill Dautrive]

typical business BS

Anyone who thinks that what the developers wear affects the quality of the work has been wearing ties to long.

Dressing up for work, is just vanity. Everyone judges what others wear, not the quality of their work or ideas. This is what happens when you wear a tie and your brain experiences oxygen loss.

What a ridiculous claim.

[VI Joker]

Yes and no

Would you respect a programmer who does not comment their code or document their application? I would not, because it shows that they are not professional, which is what business men care about its just they are not (and shouldn't be) looking at code. Its not that they are saying the software or service is inadequate, they are saying the they are not seeing a professional appearence. Perception and appearence plays a part in business as well as technology.

[Bill Dautrive]

typical business BS

Anyone who thinks that what the developers wear affects the quality of the work has been wearing ties to long.

Dressing up for work, is just vanity. Everyone judges what others wear, not the quality of their work or ideas. This is what happens when you wear a tie and your brain experiences oxygen loss.

What a ridiculous claim.

[VI Joker]

Yes and no

Would you respect a programmer who does not comment their code or document their application? I would not, because it shows that they are not professional, which is what business men care about its just they are not (and shouldn't be) looking at code. Its not that they are saying the software or service is inadequate, they are saying the they are not seeing a professional appearence. Perception and appearence plays a part in business as well as technology.

[commsoft]

Is this what passes for news now?

Some former government worker who was removed from public office telling productive developers to get a haircut?

Why does this sound like news from forty years ago? Oh, wait, it's because it's the same thing idiots like this were saying forty years ago... Amazing (and sad) that anyone will still give this message a soapbox.

[commsoft]

Is this what passes for news now?

Some former government worker who was removed from public office telling productive developers to get a haircut?

Why does this sound like news from forty years ago? Oh, wait, it's because it's the same thing idiots like this were saying forty years ago... Amazing (and sad) that anyone will still give this message a soapbox.