Comments on: 'Sandal and ponytail set' cramping Linux adoption?

Yes, says former Massachusetts CIO Peter Quinn. To be taken seriously, open-source community needs to dress the part.

[Ballenger]

Eye Abuse

A guy wearing that tie should never tell anyone else how to dress.

[Ballenger]

Eye Abuse

A guy wearing that tie should never tell anyone else how to dress.

[mgreere]

The real movers and shapers are too busy to be concerned about dress

Dressing well implies pleasing others. If you have something real to
contribute, dressing well is unnecessary.

[mgreere]

The real movers and shapers are too busy to be concerned about dress

Dressing well implies pleasing others. If you have something real to
contribute, dressing well is unnecessary.

[skin256]

Come on now...

Is this guy serious? To quote a line from Pirates Of Silicon Valley "The worse you look the smarter they think you are".
If you are a master kernel hacker, system administrator or Unix guru I dont believe you got there from standing in front of a mirror examining your new three piece suit. It was from thousands of hours cooped into a small dark room honing your skills.
It is my opinion that this guy is so far off base, the people really behind the scenes shaking up the industry have no need to dress to impress it is obvious big business && now big brother(at least the dress code big brother) are coming for them.

[skin256]

Come on now...

Is this guy serious? To quote a line from Pirates Of Silicon Valley "The worse you look the smarter they think you are".
If you are a master kernel hacker, system administrator or Unix guru I dont believe you got there from standing in front of a mirror examining your new three piece suit. It was from thousands of hours cooped into a small dark room honing your skills.
It is my opinion that this guy is so far off base, the people really behind the scenes shaking up the industry have no need to dress to impress it is obvious big business && now big brother(at least the dress code big brother) are coming for them.

"never trust a programmer in a tie"

A reseller of my previous-employers products once said that, after seeing us all gussied up for visiters.

"never trust a programmer in a tie"

A reseller of my previous-employers products once said that, after seeing us all gussied up for visiters.

[bluemist9999]

Issues Go Far Beyond Dress

Most developers, myself included, dress casually. But that isn't the biggest obstacle to widespread business adoption of open source software.

In my opinion, the biggest obstacle is the total difference in cultures and needs. Business people need integrated solutions to their problems. Open source developers create focused tools to solve specific technical problems.

Sure, saving money is a good thing, but the biggest focus for business users is finding the best, easiest to use tool for the job.

I feel the more open source advocates provide integrated business solutions, the more widespread business will adopt open source software.

For example: business users need easy-to-use tools for effective management of large numbers of systems. Open source software can easily do this, but nobody has yet done it.

[bluemist9999]

Issues Go Far Beyond Dress

Most developers, myself included, dress casually. But that isn't the biggest obstacle to widespread business adoption of open source software.

In my opinion, the biggest obstacle is the total difference in cultures and needs. Business people need integrated solutions to their problems. Open source developers create focused tools to solve specific technical problems.

Sure, saving money is a good thing, but the biggest focus for business users is finding the best, easiest to use tool for the job.

I feel the more open source advocates provide integrated business solutions, the more widespread business will adopt open source software.

For example: business users need easy-to-use tools for effective management of large numbers of systems. Open source software can easily do this, but nobody has yet done it.

[rockstarstatus]

cry, cry, cry.

First, if the article isn't a real story and cnet is grasping at
straws, why then are there so many people posting?

Second, you dress to the crowd you're selling to. Whatever it is
you're selling be it software, an opinion, a car or even yourself
(like in a job interview). On a job interview for a construction
job, I wouldn't wear a suit. I'd dress to the occasion. If I'm
selling a program or an idea for a program, I'd dress in a nice
shirt and tie and NO open toe footwear.


Dressing more formally is less an issue of "do or die" and more
an issue of respect. It shows you care enough to about what
you're selling and who you're selling to. It's a demonstration of
respect for the people you're presenting to and respect for your
appearance. It says "I respect you as professionals and I want to
show you a professional product. You have to give respect to
get respect, it doesn't happen in a vacuum.

It's the same thing with dating. I wouldn't wear a suit if I'm
going out for beer a pizza. I wouldn't even wear a tie. If she
and I are going to a symphony or a play, the suit is good. It's
about respect. I want her respect so I'm going to show her some
respect to GAIN her respect.

Some people don't WANT to make time to look beyond the
tattoos, piercings, sandals and ponytail. So what?! They don't
have to. I don't have to.
There are other people in this world besides me.
It's not all about MY comfort.

[Sboston]

Yes

Exactly.
You don't walk into a place of business with a big chip on your shoulder that states "I dare you to hire me or buy my product!" It just won't happen.

[Bill Dautrive]

Sad

How did so many people become so shallow?

What I wear and don't wear has no meaning in regards to my ability, professionalism or respect.

If you take it as such, I recommend that you loosen the tie so your IQ has a chance to get into double digits.

[rockstarstatus]

cry, cry, cry.

First, if the article isn't a real story and cnet is grasping at
straws, why then are there so many people posting?

Second, you dress to the crowd you're selling to. Whatever it is
you're selling be it software, an opinion, a car or even yourself
(like in a job interview). On a job interview for a construction
job, I wouldn't wear a suit. I'd dress to the occasion. If I'm
selling a program or an idea for a program, I'd dress in a nice
shirt and tie and NO open toe footwear.


Dressing more formally is less an issue of "do or die" and more
an issue of respect. It shows you care enough to about what
you're selling and who you're selling to. It's a demonstration of
respect for the people you're presenting to and respect for your
appearance. It says "I respect you as professionals and I want to
show you a professional product. You have to give respect to
get respect, it doesn't happen in a vacuum.

It's the same thing with dating. I wouldn't wear a suit if I'm
going out for beer a pizza. I wouldn't even wear a tie. If she
and I are going to a symphony or a play, the suit is good. It's
about respect. I want her respect so I'm going to show her some
respect to GAIN her respect.

Some people don't WANT to make time to look beyond the
tattoos, piercings, sandals and ponytail. So what?! They don't
have to. I don't have to.
There are other people in this world besides me.
It's not all about MY comfort.

[Sboston]

Yes

Exactly.
You don't walk into a place of business with a big chip on your shoulder that states "I dare you to hire me or buy my product!" It just won't happen.

[Bill Dautrive]

Sad

How did so many people become so shallow?

What I wear and don't wear has no meaning in regards to my ability, professionalism or respect.

If you take it as such, I recommend that you loosen the tie so your IQ has a chance to get into double digits.

Its not the clothes its the crap software

If the software actually worked as promised then you would see much faster adoption. In my experience open source software is too buggy, doesnt deliver, too many se4curity updates and basically just doesnt work.

Blaming the problem on the way people dress is a cop out, this guy really should tell the truth.

[anarchyreigns]

I Guess You Don't Get Out Often

If that's your opinion of open source software...it's pretty obvious that you don't "get out" often.

[cabinger]

Ever Used Open Source?

It's pretty obvious to me that you don't use free software often, if at all. If you had, you would retreat from the grossly unjust comment about it all being so buggy and unreliable. Are you kidding me?

I use free software on Unix platforms daily, and while some things might be buggy, most of the time it all depends on a variety of factors. Load up a vanilla Slackware machine, and give it a test drive. Rock solid.

[rcrusoe]

In your experience?

If open source software was as you described a lot of companies
would be in big trouble. Companies like the New York Stock
Exchange have been running on Linux for several years and over
90% of the world email routes through open source servers.

As far as stability & security, open source operating systems like
Linux rival that of established *nix systems like Solaris and beats
the pants off of Windows.

But I've got to admit, I cringe when I see certain Open Source
advocates speaking in public with untrimed beards and t-shirts.
I agree with Mr. Quinn. It's time F/OSS visited Men's Warehouse.

At least that's what I think, based on "my experience" acquired
building and managing international networks since the early
90's.

[Sboston]

No

No, the software is not crap! But having Joe T-shirtJeansandSandles telling you his application Rocks isn't going to fly.
If you make your business appearance respectable then you will be sucessful.

Its not the clothes its the crap software

If the software actually worked as promised then you would see much faster adoption. In my experience open source software is too buggy, doesnt deliver, too many se4curity updates and basically just doesnt work.

Blaming the problem on the way people dress is a cop out, this guy really should tell the truth.

[anarchyreigns]

I Guess You Don't Get Out Often

If that's your opinion of open source software...it's pretty obvious that you don't "get out" often.

[cabinger]

Ever Used Open Source?

It's pretty obvious to me that you don't use free software often, if at all. If you had, you would retreat from the grossly unjust comment about it all being so buggy and unreliable. Are you kidding me?

I use free software on Unix platforms daily, and while some things might be buggy, most of the time it all depends on a variety of factors. Load up a vanilla Slackware machine, and give it a test drive. Rock solid.

[rcrusoe]

In your experience?

If open source software was as you described a lot of companies
would be in big trouble. Companies like the New York Stock
Exchange have been running on Linux for several years and over
90% of the world email routes through open source servers.

As far as stability & security, open source operating systems like
Linux rival that of established *nix systems like Solaris and beats
the pants off of Windows.

But I've got to admit, I cringe when I see certain Open Source
advocates speaking in public with untrimed beards and t-shirts.
I agree with Mr. Quinn. It's time F/OSS visited Men's Warehouse.

At least that's what I think, based on "my experience" acquired
building and managing international networks since the early
90's.

[Sboston]

No

No, the software is not crap! But having Joe T-shirtJeansandSandles telling you his application Rocks isn't going to fly.
If you make your business appearance respectable then you will be sucessful.

[mmcaulay]

Playing by the rules

The bottom line is that by wearing a suit etc. you?re communicating, and you?re doing it in their preferred language. You?re telling them that you play by the rules. And businesses like people who play by the rules as it generally implies stability. I?ve been a programmer for close to 15 years now and have always hated to ?dress up? for the client. That doesn?t mean I under estimate the need for it. Risk is a part of business, but so is the management of risk. Of course a guy in shorts etc could be a genius and produce a spectacular product. However if he?s unwilling to play by corporate rules, you?ll see a very twitchy business man sitting across from him. My solution has always been to find a good face person, this doesn?t mean a salesman as much as it means someone who is both technical AND enjoys that ?side? of doing business. So you have twenty coders, in shorts if you like, behind the scenes making a great product and one or two bright, technically minded, business minded individuals to handle the customer interface.
As I see it the real problem is that the open-source community is comprised largely of rebels. And rebels make business people nervous. This is the root of the problem, the open-source movement IS a movement, not a business idea.

[mmcaulay]

Playing by the rules

The bottom line is that by wearing a suit etc. you?re communicating, and you?re doing it in their preferred language. You?re telling them that you play by the rules. And businesses like people who play by the rules as it generally implies stability. I?ve been a programmer for close to 15 years now and have always hated to ?dress up? for the client. That doesn?t mean I under estimate the need for it. Risk is a part of business, but so is the management of risk. Of course a guy in shorts etc could be a genius and produce a spectacular product. However if he?s unwilling to play by corporate rules, you?ll see a very twitchy business man sitting across from him. My solution has always been to find a good face person, this doesn?t mean a salesman as much as it means someone who is both technical AND enjoys that ?side? of doing business. So you have twenty coders, in shorts if you like, behind the scenes making a great product and one or two bright, technically minded, business minded individuals to handle the customer interface.
As I see it the real problem is that the open-source community is comprised largely of rebels. And rebels make business people nervous. This is the root of the problem, the open-source movement IS a movement, not a business idea.

[noldrin]

but did people trust you?

But wasn't it you who was dress properly promoting this idea? And why did you bring sandal and ponytail wearing people in to promote it? Why not go to Sun who makes Star Office, and is the father of Open Office? Why didn't you go to IBM? Novell? Surely these companies have people who look how you think they should. Heck, even the Free Software Foundation next door in cambridge has someone in a suit and tie they can send out for professional presentations.

Perhaps it's easier to blame an entire group of people in a very discrimitory manner for short comings then it is examine the shortcomings of your own work. Unfortunately it sounds like you are about to exclaim "Darn Beatniks!" in your rationalizations.

[Sboston]

Nope!

Its not that at all.

Let me give you an example.

3 people show up at a business to try to sell their product or services.

Person 1: Suit,tie, nice shoes and well groomed.
Person 2: Casual Businees dress (Polo shirt, slacks and nice shoes) and groomed.
Person 3: T-shirt, jeans, sandles and long hair/ratty beard.

Business person has already elimated one person without even hearing about the products.

Is it right? no, but that is the way it works.

[noldrin]

but did people trust you?

But wasn't it you who was dress properly promoting this idea? And why did you bring sandal and ponytail wearing people in to promote it? Why not go to Sun who makes Star Office, and is the father of Open Office? Why didn't you go to IBM? Novell? Surely these companies have people who look how you think they should. Heck, even the Free Software Foundation next door in cambridge has someone in a suit and tie they can send out for professional presentations.

Perhaps it's easier to blame an entire group of people in a very discrimitory manner for short comings then it is examine the shortcomings of your own work. Unfortunately it sounds like you are about to exclaim "Darn Beatniks!" in your rationalizations.

[Sboston]

Nope!

Its not that at all.

Let me give you an example.

3 people show up at a business to try to sell their product or services.

Person 1: Suit,tie, nice shoes and well groomed.
Person 2: Casual Businees dress (Polo shirt, slacks and nice shoes) and groomed.
Person 3: T-shirt, jeans, sandles and long hair/ratty beard.

Business person has already elimated one person without even hearing about the products.

Is it right? no, but that is the way it works.

[J.G.]

Open source guys ARE yucky

I must agree with the source. It is not just the ponytails. Some
of those fellows haven't washed that hair in months. They are
likely to be overweight and pale as ghosts. I've encountered
some with b.o. Instead of the ultra-defensive posture we're
seeing on this thread, people in the open source movement need
to engage in some self-examination.

Their attitude of 'I am pure, everyone else is a corporate tool'
doesn't help matters either.

Even if the open source movement were to be extremely
successful in creating software, it will not matter much if hardly
anyone is willing to use it because people find members of the
group unsavory. It is up to the open sourcers themselves to
change that perception.

[ddesy]

Broad generalization

You know, just because some of the Open Source
people are this bad at personal hygiene doesn't
mean most or even many are. Many are just fine
when it comes to staying clean. They just
prefer not to wear the expensive and often
uncomfortable clothing that corporate types
often wear. I can't say I blame anyone for not
wanting to wear that stuff!

[J.G.]

Open source guys ARE yucky

I must agree with the source. It is not just the ponytails. Some
of those fellows haven't washed that hair in months. They are
likely to be overweight and pale as ghosts. I've encountered
some with b.o. Instead of the ultra-defensive posture we're
seeing on this thread, people in the open source movement need
to engage in some self-examination.

Their attitude of 'I am pure, everyone else is a corporate tool'
doesn't help matters either.

Even if the open source movement were to be extremely
successful in creating software, it will not matter much if hardly
anyone is willing to use it because people find members of the
group unsavory. It is up to the open sourcers themselves to
change that perception.

[ddesy]

Broad generalization

You know, just because some of the Open Source
people are this bad at personal hygiene doesn't
mean most or even many are. Many are just fine
when it comes to staying clean. They just
prefer not to wear the expensive and often
uncomfortable clothing that corporate types
often wear. I can't say I blame anyone for not
wanting to wear that stuff!