Comments on: 'Sandal and ponytail set' cramping Linux adoption?

Yes, says former Massachusetts CIO Peter Quinn. To be taken seriously, open-source community needs to dress the part.

[ddesy]

Arrogance - the real problem

People who are so concerned with how others dress are simply arrogant. They believe that if you don't spend hundreds on a suit you aren't worthy.

The truth is that looks don't really matter to those who care about non-superficial things.

[DougDbug]

But, the real solution....

It doesn't matter what the "real problem" is. The REAL SOLUTION is to adapt to the real business world... You can't tell your "customers" "YOU have to change!"

Or, The open source people can stay out of the business world altogether and keep it pure...

[scottlewis101]

Don't interpret the content literally

Daniel, don't interpret the comments in this story so literally. The point the subject is trying to make is Big Business has to be able to take something seriously in order to adopt it for the enterprise. When real dollars are on the line, what is going to seem to be more legitimate, "WebSphere" or "Geronimo"? What about "Subversion" versus "PVCS"? You may read it as 'sub version' but the double entendre suggests zealotry.

Marketing may be fluff and utterly irrelevant where substance and functionality is concerned, but can you see a CIO standing in from of the board defending his use of the product "Eddie" over IBM HACMP? Functionality aside, they may do the same thing (these don't, but whatever) but you're not going to find a CxO willing to bet the farm on an open source product with a cutesy name.

Furthermore, zealotry will hamper open source projects. Rally cries of "Microsoft Sucks, Run With Tux" don't address the needs of businesses. Dollars are not made by technology - technology enables dollars to be made. If the technology is a superior performer and the risks of using it are manageable, it will win on its own merits.

[janetvande]

Arrogant all the way

The problem is that the overly dressed corporate world is treating the software like they treat the people. The clothing problem is only a symbol of what's really wrong. The arrogance runs through and through.

If you'd rather spend zillions on something "acceptable" like a big ticket MS program rather than a less costly and infinitely more adaptable open source program, you deserve to spend too much and fail. Simple. The market will come back to bite even the most well-dressed, proper and conservative company over all this. Lean will win the day.

[timberman]

Sad, but true

Nothing ever gets done if the morons are afraid, and the morons
are always afraid. A guy with sandals and a ponytail might be a
flake, or he might be the most qualified person in his field.
Judging which he is means taking a risk, and morons take as few
risks as possible. Being morons, they also believe that there's
no risk at all if he's wearing a suit. What a wonderful society the
corporate elite has created for itself! It's no doubt the reason
why IBM missed Bill Gates until he started eating their lunch --
off their own plates, no less.

[ddesy]

Arrogance - the real problem

People who are so concerned with how others dress are simply arrogant. They believe that if you don't spend hundreds on a suit you aren't worthy.

The truth is that looks don't really matter to those who care about non-superficial things.

[DougDbug]

But, the real solution....

It doesn't matter what the "real problem" is. The REAL SOLUTION is to adapt to the real business world... You can't tell your "customers" "YOU have to change!"

Or, The open source people can stay out of the business world altogether and keep it pure...

[scottlewis101]

Don't interpret the content literally

Daniel, don't interpret the comments in this story so literally. The point the subject is trying to make is Big Business has to be able to take something seriously in order to adopt it for the enterprise. When real dollars are on the line, what is going to seem to be more legitimate, "WebSphere" or "Geronimo"? What about "Subversion" versus "PVCS"? You may read it as 'sub version' but the double entendre suggests zealotry.

Marketing may be fluff and utterly irrelevant where substance and functionality is concerned, but can you see a CIO standing in from of the board defending his use of the product "Eddie" over IBM HACMP? Functionality aside, they may do the same thing (these don't, but whatever) but you're not going to find a CxO willing to bet the farm on an open source product with a cutesy name.

Furthermore, zealotry will hamper open source projects. Rally cries of "Microsoft Sucks, Run With Tux" don't address the needs of businesses. Dollars are not made by technology - technology enables dollars to be made. If the technology is a superior performer and the risks of using it are manageable, it will win on its own merits.

[janetvande]

Arrogant all the way

The problem is that the overly dressed corporate world is treating the software like they treat the people. The clothing problem is only a symbol of what's really wrong. The arrogance runs through and through.

If you'd rather spend zillions on something "acceptable" like a big ticket MS program rather than a less costly and infinitely more adaptable open source program, you deserve to spend too much and fail. Simple. The market will come back to bite even the most well-dressed, proper and conservative company over all this. Lean will win the day.

[timberman]

Sad, but true

Nothing ever gets done if the morons are afraid, and the morons
are always afraid. A guy with sandals and a ponytail might be a
flake, or he might be the most qualified person in his field.
Judging which he is means taking a risk, and morons take as few
risks as possible. Being morons, they also believe that there's
no risk at all if he's wearing a suit. What a wonderful society the
corporate elite has created for itself! It's no doubt the reason
why IBM missed Bill Gates until he started eating their lunch --
off their own plates, no less.

[yellowjester]

Corporate Monkey Suits

cramping humanity. Burn your tie.

[yellowjester]

Corporate Monkey Suits

cramping humanity. Burn your tie.

[Charleston Charge]

Looks

probably aren't benefitting the cause, but the main issue is still lack of serious business apps. The linux desktop has become a pretty solid alternative for your basic home user, but even that won't take off like it could until you can easily buy a new PC preloaded with Linux.

[cyber_rigger]

Preinstalled Linux

"but even that won't take off like it could until you can easily buy a new PC preloaded with Linux."


It is getting easier.

http://www.addonshop.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.ibexpc.com/
http://www.koobox.com/
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/
http://www.microcenter.com/
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.outpost.com/
http://shoprcubed.com/
http://www.sub300.com/
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.walmart.com/

http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html

http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information)


No OS

(Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes)
http://www.avadirect.com/
http://www.asimobile.com/
http://www.powernotebooks.com/

[Charleston Charge]

Looks

probably aren't benefitting the cause, but the main issue is still lack of serious business apps. The linux desktop has become a pretty solid alternative for your basic home user, but even that won't take off like it could until you can easily buy a new PC preloaded with Linux.

[cyber_rigger]

Preinstalled Linux

"but even that won't take off like it could until you can easily buy a new PC preloaded with Linux."


It is getting easier.

http://www.addonshop.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.ibexpc.com/
http://www.koobox.com/
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/
http://www.microcenter.com/
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.outpost.com/
http://shoprcubed.com/
http://www.sub300.com/
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.walmart.com/

http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html

http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information)


No OS

(Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes)
http://www.avadirect.com/
http://www.asimobile.com/
http://www.powernotebooks.com/

[cyber_rigger]

Steve Jobs is a disgrace

I mean all he wears is that black T-shirt and jeans.

[DougDbug]

Don't dress-up at Apple

Yeah, If you're a programmer at Apple and you come to work dressed like Wall Street, they'll beat you up!!!!!

[cyber_rigger]

Steve Jobs is a disgrace

I mean all he wears is that black T-shirt and jeans.

[DougDbug]

Don't dress-up at Apple

Yeah, If you're a programmer at Apple and you come to work dressed like Wall Street, they'll beat you up!!!!!

Professional Open Source ...

... strategy for executives, that's what we (the Olliance Group) do, been doing it for 5 years with all the top tech companies. Instead of asking the community to convince a bunch of suits that Open Source is good, you need to look for other suits that can do it and can do it on their terms. And those are not things like free speech or the technical prowess of Open Source, generally.

I'm not surprised he had issues with the developers who play the most prominent and critical role in Open Source. However, those are not the same people who make the big decisions about widespread deployments. If he'd done a little homework, maybe he could have found some boardroom level advocates, and not just us, but others like IBM, Amazon, HP, Google, Sun, etc.

Chris.

Professional Open Source ...

... strategy for executives, that's what we (the Olliance Group) do, been doing it for 5 years with all the top tech companies. Instead of asking the community to convince a bunch of suits that Open Source is good, you need to look for other suits that can do it and can do it on their terms. And those are not things like free speech or the technical prowess of Open Source, generally.

I'm not surprised he had issues with the developers who play the most prominent and critical role in Open Source. However, those are not the same people who make the big decisions about widespread deployments. If he'd done a little homework, maybe he could have found some boardroom level advocates, and not just us, but others like IBM, Amazon, HP, Google, Sun, etc.

Chris.

What bunk

Since when have any innovators in software had 'professional appearence'?

Open Source isnt being adopted wider because 99.99% of people arent programmers or interested in the source, so the source being open or closed makes no difference because they'll never change it. So instead they prefer the more polished commercial apps with perks such as complete help files. Its not a religious issue - they just prefer paying X in dollars, and getting Y in software and support in return. People just dont have the time to wading through an endless collection of Beta version 0.2's of open source apps to find one that'll work for them, or updating their systems ever time a new bug-point-alpha build comes out. Commercial software is (not always, but usually) easier and lets them get on with their lives and jobs.

What bunk

Since when have any innovators in software had 'professional appearence'?

Open Source isnt being adopted wider because 99.99% of people arent programmers or interested in the source, so the source being open or closed makes no difference because they'll never change it. So instead they prefer the more polished commercial apps with perks such as complete help files. Its not a religious issue - they just prefer paying X in dollars, and getting Y in software and support in return. People just dont have the time to wading through an endless collection of Beta version 0.2's of open source apps to find one that'll work for them, or updating their systems ever time a new bug-point-alpha build comes out. Commercial software is (not always, but usually) easier and lets them get on with their lives and jobs.

[Sentinel]

Clothing dictates quality of software

That's right. It doesn't matter how robust the application is or how many hours were spent in its creation. What matters is that you wear a tie when you go and try to get companies to use your app. These people keep forgetting that open source software is made by volunteers. Volunteers who are not often business inclined. the initial idea of open source was to exist apart from propietary software, apart from the capitalist industry. The fact that the capitalists came to open source looking for cheaper alternatives seem to be lost on these people. If they came to the open sourcers, then telling them how to dress is basically an insult.

On the other hand, why is this a story? I guess CNET has determined that publishing stories about criticisms gets ratings or something, because frankly, I don't think this story deserves to be reported on a respectable news site. It's just not important.

[Sentinel]

Clothing dictates quality of software

That's right. It doesn't matter how robust the application is or how many hours were spent in its creation. What matters is that you wear a tie when you go and try to get companies to use your app. These people keep forgetting that open source software is made by volunteers. Volunteers who are not often business inclined. the initial idea of open source was to exist apart from propietary software, apart from the capitalist industry. The fact that the capitalists came to open source looking for cheaper alternatives seem to be lost on these people. If they came to the open sourcers, then telling them how to dress is basically an insult.

On the other hand, why is this a story? I guess CNET has determined that publishing stories about criticisms gets ratings or something, because frankly, I don't think this story deserves to be reported on a respectable news site. It's just not important.

[janetvande]

And what would the properly dressed have done?

Nothing. Nothing good, anyway.

The suit-and-tie set would still be suing each other over who owned what. Open source culture simply evades them. It's time for the suits to get over their bad selves.

Adopt Linux or stay in the Micro$oft mold (and don't we always hear about how casual MS is compared to the rest of the corporate world)?

[janetvande]

And what would the properly dressed have done?

Nothing. Nothing good, anyway.

The suit-and-tie set would still be suing each other over who owned what. Open source culture simply evades them. It's time for the suits to get over their bad selves.

Adopt Linux or stay in the Micro$oft mold (and don't we always hear about how casual MS is compared to the rest of the corporate world)?

[xoundmind]

Wanker

Presumably he has a problem with folks like this:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=46

I'll take the hippie sover the suits any day.

[Sboston]

Example

Greg is a good example of what this story is about.
A very smart guy with a good product, but if he showed up dressed like that clients like I deal with every day (Bankers) would not listen to him. They would see him as someone that rode up on a skateboard. The only way he could have made a worse impression is to have holes in the knees of his jeans.
Dress up a little better, a nice shirt, slacks and shoes and he would be listened to.

[xoundmind]

Wanker

Presumably he has a problem with folks like this:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=46

I'll take the hippie sover the suits any day.

[Sboston]

Example

Greg is a good example of what this story is about.
A very smart guy with a good product, but if he showed up dressed like that clients like I deal with every day (Bankers) would not listen to him. They would see him as someone that rode up on a skateboard. The only way he could have made a worse impression is to have holes in the knees of his jeans.
Dress up a little better, a nice shirt, slacks and shoes and he would be listened to.

[TomTester]

Conform or...

Silly man...

If all of these "ponytails" had conformed to old-school business customs (e.g. proprietary code, secrets, etc.) the innovation of open source would never have taken place.

I think the support and longevity issues are way more important in the open source vs commercial buying decision. And... I'd hire the creative ponytail sandal-worshipper ANY day over a buzzword-puffing hot-air generating confirmist any day.

In business, there are tools & Tools. Don't become one... create and play boss...

[VI Joker]

Give and take...

.. on both sides is needed. I would not want to have a business partner who has tunnel vision about how a business person should or not be. If that is the case then it would make me wonder what else they are narrow minded about. The flip side of this is if you are going to a company that you know has a certain perception on how people should appear then you have to either play the part or direct your business elsewhere.

[TomTester]

Conform or...

Silly man...

If all of these "ponytails" had conformed to old-school business customs (e.g. proprietary code, secrets, etc.) the innovation of open source would never have taken place.

I think the support and longevity issues are way more important in the open source vs commercial buying decision. And... I'd hire the creative ponytail sandal-worshipper ANY day over a buzzword-puffing hot-air generating confirmist any day.

In business, there are tools & Tools. Don't become one... create and play boss...

[VI Joker]

Give and take...

.. on both sides is needed. I would not want to have a business partner who has tunnel vision about how a business person should or not be. If that is the case then it would make me wonder what else they are narrow minded about. The flip side of this is if you are going to a company that you know has a certain perception on how people should appear then you have to either play the part or direct your business elsewhere.