Comments on: Sun criticizes popular open-source license

Sun Microsystems President Jonathan Schwartz applauds the open-source software realm but takes jabs at the GPL.

Spastic drivel

"Schwartz also predicted that companies that pledge support for open-source software but that keep their own products proprietary will eventually be exposed as hypocrites and fall by the wayside"

Hah! Last time I checked the Sun LDAP Directory, web server, messaging, et al is proprietary software.

[Shankland]

Author replies: Yes, but more open source is likely

You're right that Sun has plenty of proprietary software. However, more open-source software is likely. Schwartz has discussed an open-source database (http://news.com.com/Sun+floats+open-source+database+idea/2100-7344_3-5562799.html), and Java Enterprise System server software, which includes the LDAP and other components you mentioned (http://news.com.com/Sun+warms+to+open-source+server+software/2100-7344_3-5550457.html). And today, Schwartz said to expect more open-source projects from Sun.

Meet the New Boss

Same as the Old Boss

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

[pcLoadLetter]

What?

So he doesn't like the GPL because corporations can't use GPL code for their proprietary projects? What sense is that?

So they want to climb on the backs of others who wanted there code shared, but not share any resulting code, and the GPL is the problem.

That is just too much irony to take.

[ebbek]

Using GPL'ed code has a price

What most people don't understand is that when you use GPL'ed code, you must pay the price. The only difference is that the price isn't money, it is the code you create with the GPL'ed code.

So if you don't want to release your proprietary code under GPL, don't use GPL'ed code when you create it. Yes, it really is that simple.

[aabcdefghij987654321]

No need to pay

It's public domain. You are not paying a price. You can pay a price if you start working on the code but you don't have to.

[BuffaloSoldier]

release if sold / distributed

I'm sorry if I have misunderstood GPL. But from what I understand is you only have to release the code if you're distributing the software to other people.

Anyway, I think us third world countries don't mind sharing and contributing. I think it's a win-win situation and a fair deal.

Mr Jonathan Schwartz has kind of insulted us. It's like he's insinuating that we only want free things in opensource and are not interesting in giving back to the community. (Sorry Jonathan Schwartz, not everyone is as stingy as you and SUN)

[nealda]

Pure Propaganda

Anyone who uses the term "intellectual property" is engaging in propaganda. I'll keep posting this quote until people understand that:

If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property. Society may give an exclusive right to the profits arising from them, as an encouragement to men to pursue ideas which may produce utility, but this may or may not be done, according to the will and convenience of the society, without claim or complaint from anybody.

-- Thomas Jefferson

From the article:
The GPL purports to have freedom at its core,
but it imposes on its users "a rather predatory
obligation to disgorge all their IP back to the
wealthiest nation in the world," the United
States, where the GPL originated, Schwartz said.

So, he's standing the US as a representative of a US-based corporation and using scare tactics to frighten people into believing that the GPL is a US plot to steal their intellectual "property." What a bunch of tinfoil-hat-wearing crap! Predatory?? He wants the right to confiscate other peoples' hard work and make a profit from it without giving them anything in return and he has the audacity to call others "predatory??!!!" Holy Cow! This guy is completely deranged!

[RandomUser]

Re: Pure Propaganda

Indeed, if there was any slightest doubt left whether Sun was to be mistrusted or not, then the strongly misleading (FUDing) USA part of Schwartz's comment sealed it.

Sun's actions keep being deeply schizophrenic.

Whether this is the way to lead a business and to build public confidence in a company I don't know, but what I know for sure is that I for one will avoid Sun like the plague from now on.

(not that I really learned to like Java much before anyway, though...)

Of course some people dislike the GPL

"But Schwartz said that some people he's spoken to dislike it because it precludes them from using open-source software as a foundation for proprietary projects."

That's exactly the main reason why so many people are prepared to contribute to open source projects. They have reassurance that no-one can simply take their contributions for free and use them to bootstrap their own commercial enterprise without giving anything back.

Of course "some people" are going to dislike that! Why should anyone have or expect that right?

[BuffaloSoldier]

"some people" = Schwartx & Gang

"But Schwartz said that some people he's spoken to dislike it because it precludes them from using open-source software as a foundation for proprietary projects."

some people = Schwartz and the gang.

Schwartz, please don't accuse us third world countries to be as shallow and stingy as you are.

And exaclty how is US going to monopolize GPLed Software?

I'm suprised that one of SUN's highest executives have this wrong view of GPL and Open source in gneral..

Let's see, Let's suppose I design a system that fullfils a need in my country (Mexico) and I decide to make it GPL or I developed it using GPLed software as a start point, so I have to give the code back to the community (here you can read "to the WORLD"), and the preferable way to dothat is by posting it on the internet.

Ok, now lets suppose that a town in Africa, Australia, Argentina o even Cuba or Pakistan have the same need and they realize that the GPLed software of my invetion is usefull for them.. HOW in the world is the US going to stop them to get use modify and upgrade my invention?.. They just can't, imagine the US trying to control Cubans and noth coreans from learning physics or math, its just a fool idea.

What this companies want is to profit from the hard work made by a lot or people, just for free (gratis). Sorry.. GPL was intended to be like that.. you can be sure that the C O D E you give to the community wont be profited bye no one, because everyone leggally have to give thier improvements back to the community.

What's the rush about GPL?, if you develop a single driver, process, deamon, etc for Linux (just to give an example)and you give it for free (libre),you can then enjoy an etire Operating System free as well as a payback.

I wonder why people think that is a bad deal.

Greetings from Mexico

[unknown unknown]

I guess that fair considering...

several in the open source community have take jabs at Sun's license. The licensed used for a given peace of software is at the discretion of the author/copyright holder. There is nothing preventing an author who has released their code under GPL from granting a company a special license to use the code in closed source application. Sun's license also require that any software that uses CDDL licensed code that is distributed in executable form be made avaliable in source form. It also places contributed code under the CDDL license. It seems as though many of the criticisms being made of the GPL also apply to Sun's CDDL.

[scdecade]

A Sun shareholder's view

HOLY *****! Schwartz is dumber than a bag of hammers. And I mean no offense to bags of hammers. Even if some of the drivel he's spewing is more or less coherent he's a fool for saying it. Does anyone really think IBM is a big proponent of Linux? IBM brings customers in the door because they appear open, friendly, and ready to educate about the latest trends in technology. IBM appears to offer everything IT without prejudice so their customers can decide for themselves. IBM then sells them what they really need, i.e. mainframes, aix unix, and OS/400. There are more corporate types that are ashamed of their IT systems than there are happy ones. Sun continues to marginalize themselves by being tech smart and public dumb. Dumber than dirt. Very, very disappointing. What benefits are bestowed upon Sun (and Sun's poor shareholders) by slagging off the GPL and further alienating the now gigantic linux community?

[RandomUser]

Re: A Sun shareholder's view

You nailed it!
(gotta keep the hammer analogy, ya know ;-)

Sun is alienating every single person on earth with their outrageously dumb propaganda.

This is NOT how to do business.

If we look at IBM (as you said), they're not doing overwhelmingly much for the OSS community (at least AFAICS, considering weak hardware support), yet they're still doing their fair share and, most importantly, don't spread dumb criticism.

[BuffaloSoldier]

From 3rd world country. SUN +CDDL = Th real Imperialist.

Jonathan Schwartz must have thought that the people and leaders of 3rd world countries are idiots. His remarks are an insult. He thinks that we are blind!

The truth is the actual imperialist is SUN and their CDDL license. Having people reporting bugs on their software for free and then retaining the control of the software. Jonathan Schwartz is a classic colonist and invader.

Mr Jonathan Schwartz sir, you and your company are best out from Malaysia.

[aabcdefghij987654321]

How is this different?

I recall a MS representative (Ballmer?) called the GPL "viral'. This story here just sounds like Sun has figured out the same thing, just years later.