Comments on: Eclipse lights up Java crowd

The open-source Eclipse project steps out of IBM's shadow to become the center of Java tools innovation.

[katamari]

Interesting.

An associate of mine and I were talking about the "situation" between Sun and IBM, particularly because of this article. His argument was that Java could really go places if Sun didn't have such a stronghold on the Java product, and by "opening it up" (having it managed by a public committee of different groups/teams, as well as the open-source community), could actually put Microsoft's .NET to shame.

The amusing part is that Eclipse requires a Java VM to run. Consumers and developers are left with only one choice of JVM out there: the one from Sun. So, in English: Eclipse -- an IBM product -- requires a Sun product to work.

My colleague pointed out that there was an IBM JRE/JVM available (Java v1.4.2). I took the liberty of examining IBMs page, only to find the following pre-requisite for using IBM's JRE/JVM:

- Required for installation:
- * Computer must be an IBM system. This program will not install on non-IBM systems.
- * Computer must be running Microsoft Windows Me, 2000, or XP. Or must be updated withthe latest WMI classes if running an older Microsoft operating system.

Again, in English: IBM's JRE/JVM can't be used on any NON-IBM computer. I believe their claim to be accurate (re: won't install on any non-IBM computer), though I have not tested it.

Some may be thinking "What about Microsoft's JRE/JVM? HUH? WHAT ABOUT THAT?" You won't find it on Microsoft's page. If you remember, Sun took them to court -- and won. You can find Microsoft's JRE/JVM floating around on the 'net, but it's not supported, hasn't been updated in years upon years, and doesn't exactly work as well on newer Windows releases (compared to back then).

With all of this in mind, I would say the "stronghold" attitude is a two-way street. Sun's releases a JRE/JVM to the public for free (which is an absolute pile of garbage, for the record); IBM's Eclipse relies on that crappy JRE/JVM to run; IBM's own JRE/JVM is only available to users using IBM-specific equipment.

I believe the final inning to this game will result in Java dying off entirely -- something that, in my opinion, should've happened in the late 90s. Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily want to see Microsoft .NET dominate either, but the reality of the situation is that Java is going to end up a corpse unless BOTH corporations decide to team up and make something worthwhile for both consumers and developers.

[System Tyrant]

Java

I think in a lot a ways you are right. I think Sun needs to relinquish total control of Java if they expect it to become dominant. However, I don't want to see 10 different JVM's or people just bloating it up to suit everybodies needs.

More over though I think it's time for a new language all the way around. One that is clean and neat and can be compiled to machine language or byte language. One that doesn't allow for as much control as C++, but doesn't limit it to uselessness. Pascal would be a good example of a clean language. Java is a good example of limiting control.

Unfortunatly Java and .Net have a lot of overhead. C++ allows for to much control over programs when it's not needed. Pascal like a lot of other languages isn't support very well.