Comments on: Ballmer attacks Linux on patent front

Microsoft CEO says Linux may not really be free given the intellectual-property risks.

[JuggerNaut]

Isn't Windows infringing on some patents as well?

I read somewhere that Windows is infringing on various patents
that Microsoft doesn't hold and is pretty much in the same boat
as Linux because of it.

So everyone is affected by patents and litigation.

[David Arbogast]

EXCEPT

Except that Microsoft has the money and an indemnification program to handle any IP law-suits that may arise. And lets not forget, that the existing lawsuits all point to Linux, not Windows.

Who do you sue when Linux incorporates some piece of technology you own? Unless you know who stole your code, you are left with no recourse other than sueing Linux users.

Who do you sue when Windows has incorporated some piece of technology you own? Your only option is to sue Microsoft.

Personally... if I wanted to severely reduce legal liability from IP infringement in my software, I'd be considering Microsoft software... not OpenSource.

[dejo]

Maybe MS is. But who can tell?

There may be patent infringements in Microsoft code. But since
the code is closed (and Microsoft is not about to open it up), it is
very hard for IP owners to evaluate whether Microsoft is
infringing or not.

We all know...

We all know Microsoft is a big bunch of do-do. However any of you that don't think the companies that own the patent rights for the 283 or so patents that Linux is infringing on won't come after the money they are owed is kidding themselves.

More and more these days companies make their money and survive off the fees they get from their patents. Like at the browser plug-in patent that IE and some other browsers not to mention millions of web sites had to deal with and are still dealing with. Or the patent law suite that Adobe filed against Macromedia over tabbed palettes.

Companies, especailly the greedy ones and that is pretty much all of them will go after every cent they can. They can't see the forest for the trees and realize that Linux should it make it to maturity could be PC users' only hope for a viable ulternative to Windows and just let the patents slide for the benefit every PC user.

Know Microsoft is counting on corporate greed to put an end to Linux and you can bet that corporate greed will do it. Just like Copyright greed is going to kill off P2P, MP3 players and many other devices when the induce act or some other half-as*ed similar law gets passed by the anal repulicans how running this country.

Robert

[David Arbogast]

sheesh

Robert, you make some good comments, but you seem to be very anti-business. The concept of greed is not as firm within a business as you would suggest. Likewise, the concept of benefitting all computer users is pretty foreign to businesses too.

Corporations exist to increase shareholder value. If they do so successfully, investors make money, employees make money, jobs are created, retirement is supported, and health-care is provided.

Businesses are making decisions to increase shareholder value. Ideas like... reshaping the industry and personal greed are dangerous to a business, and are generally not supported by shareholders. The decisions in the future will be made the same way they've been made in the past. Options will be evaluated against their potential affect to net present value. Those with the best outlook will be accepted.

It is open-source that has changed the landscape. Introducing the concept that changes should be made to business models and the industry as a whole to provide detrimental influence to existing software businesses without directly benefitting any investors, employees, retirees, or anybody else who helps to build software. Think about it. If open-source were to suddenly prevail on a massive global scale... how many software companies would be destroyed? How many jobs lost? How many investors sunk? And what do we do about all these new jobless people? Try to employ them all as customer service representatives for Linux distributors? How much will they make doing that? Customer service is commonly outsourced...

The existing system is in place, and is strong, because it works. Because it provides benefits to tens of millions of people around the world.

The www.fudfactory.com campaign

Someone should start linking the words FUD Factory to www.microsoft.com.
Oh, wait.
Someone did.
They seem to rally up a campaign over at http://www.fudfactory.com

[David Arbogast]

hey look!

More overflow from the clogged drain known as slashdot!

[David Arbogast]

The facts are coming

People from all camps of technology business are keying in on the IP infringements in Linux. Law suits exist, and the key open-source founders are banking on legal trouble related to IP.

There is absolutely no similar activity surrounding Windows.

So... you want to speak reality? Okay... There is far more evidence supporting IP theft within Linux than any other operating system. Court cases that are scheduled and have been refused early dismissal will iron out any more proof you need.

SCO said they had millions of lines of code as proof

They asked for more time to gather 'evidence' a few months back. Any source that they have shown has been proven as not infringing.

SCO has nothing, because there is nothing, and they are about to get the majority of their case tossed out.

As for windows, who knows how much of the code was stolen and who really cares? It is all garbage.

[Gayle-Edwards]

FUD FUD FUD

>> "There is absolutely no similar activity surrounding Windows."

Here's a simple question...

Are you really that ignorant of such BASIC FACTS as,

...The fact that Microsoft has, in fact, been repeatedly found, by both U.S. AND Foreign COURTS, to have STOLEN the INTELLECTUAL-PROPERTIES of others.

...The fact that much of the MOST DAMNING EVIDENCE against Microsoft (in the numerous SUCCESSFUL cases AGAINST the company) often came directly from Microsoft's OWN 'e-mails', and 'internal-memos' (...to which, Microsoft's IMMEDIATE response to 'Court ordered monitoring' of their activities was to implement an 'internal policy' of "...rapid e-mail destruction", ...and, COINCIDENTALLY', to redesign "Microsoft Office's"-'Security-features' in such a way as to prevent future 'leaks' of such "...internal-memos" to "...unauthorized recipients").

...The fact that Microsoft has been acting like a 'PARANOID-PSYCHOTIC" when it comes to ANYBODY getting a hold of ANY of the "...MS-Windows source-code", ...even though, by law, any such release would ACTUALLY STRENGTHEN any of Microsoft's future 'IP' and 'copyright' claims (kinda makes you wonder what they’re HIDING).

...The fact that, in actuality, there have been NO SUCCESSFUL CLAIMS of 'IP theft' brought against "Linux", ...despite the endless 'FUD' and the apparently baseless, legal-claims made primarily by a SINGLE 'failing-company' (...right after Microsoft, just happened to have, pumped 'tens of millions’ of 'life-saving' dollars into it).

...The fact that Microsoft's obvious "FUD Campaign"" is INAPPROPRIATELY trying to 'lump together' such 'HOTLY-DEBATED' "IP concepts" as 'license infringement', 'copyrights', and 'patents' (...Frankly, it appears that they [Microsoft] are doing this so that they can FALSELY CLAIM that, somehow, 'end-users' can be held responsible for such 'IP violations', ...which, in reality, most legal-experts will tell you is simply NOT the case).

...the fact that much of the so-called 'Patent Issue' actually seems to revolve around a large number of recently applied-for, and incredibly WEAK, 'patents' (many of which were apparently hastily created, or held, by, ...surprise, ...surprise, ...Microsoft).

And finally, ...the fact that many of these CLEARLY BOGUS PATENT-CLAIMS have already been, or are currently being, 'INVALIDATED' in court.

Sure, many people are talking about this issue (that is the 'nature' of "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" campaigns, after all). But it also seems that MOST people DO realize what a 'SHAM' this is.

So, for the supporters of this 'Anti-Linux' NONSENSE, ...just how desperate are you to justify these ludicrous claims? And, ...WHY?

I doubt it

David, I can't seem to find information on the web substantiating those claims. I looked all over slashdot and then gave up... JOKING! Sorry I couldn't help myself... Can you share some links with the group? That might get you a bit more credibility around here.

This whole Open VS Closed thing is turning into a FUD war. Personally, I think both camps have a lot to win if they'll just sit down together and work it out, but maybe I'm just an idealist. The thing is, people tend to get so emotional about open source (myself included) and emotion clouds judgement. IMHO open source would benefit from a few more level-headed individuals.

Copyrighted code is likely not going to found in Linux. SCO's claims do not seem to be holding up in court, and are also being debunked web-wide. I can't seem to find much of a support group for the SCO claims, try as I might. Linux and GNU apps likely infringe on some patents, but the patents will have to hold up in court. I doubt they will because it will be too easy to demonstrate prior use in most cases. Killing Linux in the US wouldn't even do anything to stop the development momentum; I bet it would spark even more world-wide interest in developing the OS & apps. Ah, but here I am talking about the future again, and it's all speculation; educated speculation, I hope. I think open source software is the future, and countries that enforce companys' ability to block open source will find themselves technologically inferior in short order, and will learn from it and reverse the decision. But that's just what I think and I'll just have to wait and see. I want to be a driving force for Linux when the time is right, and I even have some crazy ideas for business plans.

change

It's very possible for people to get paid for developing open source software--and paid well. You just gotta get creative. Yes, I believe it's possible, and I have some crazy wild-eyed ideas. Which I WON'T be sharing with the likes of you all ;)

We'll just have to see how well they pan out in the real world.