Comments on: Google's censorship struggles continue in China

At some point before the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre, Google changed its method for censoring search results. It refuses to discuss the new method.

[Super2online]

A classic case of preaching "WE DO NO EVIl" with the right hand, while secretly slipping under the covers with China with the left hand. The moral high grand has no gray areas people, Google should be ashamed.

[ralfthedog]

While the other right had was allowing access to the "Restricted Sites" in China through Google Cache.

[Seaspray0]

If you're going to do business in a country, you have to follow their rules. I give google credit for being the least censored search in china. That tells me they are doing their best to follow the rules but not one website more than necessary.

[emad_ramzy]

It is not the first time the "do no evil" company has dealt with two faces. Take, for example, the case of Ed Magedson (of ripoffreport. com fame), the man is a known crook and extortionist but who is the only company that is helping him in his "enterprise"? You guessed it, the "do no evil" company. I have no respect for Google and I thank God that there is an alternative to their search engine now, I boycotted them long time ago

[ITcomposer]

Its a communist goverment case and point, just like we should be ashamed of doing business with them.

[karpenterskids]

How does China justify hiding/censoring things with their people? What's their reasoning? Do they not know that the truth will set you free? Or that history not learned is bound to repeat itself?


I know the American Government hides lots of things from us as well, but most of it pertains to national security, so it's understandable...

[mmntech]

They justify it because the censorship is needed to maintain power. The chocolate ration of four grams is being increased to two grams. It's all about fooling people into making the government administration look better than it actually is; a government which puts grannies in the gulag for protesting the destruction of their houses or turns tanks on unarmed citizens. Censorship is never acceptable and Google, a company that actively promotes liberal values, should really be ashamed of themselves.

[freebird333]

I've learned in politics that where there is smoke there is fire. Keep in mind that Google has a virtual monopoly on Internet search and monopolies are the calling card of totalitarian regimes and crony capitalism (to call it communism is being kind). I wouldn't be surprised if Google censors the Internet right here in the states or that they actively work with our government and others to not only censor but to spy on and silence political dissent. "We do no evil," whatta slogan; another trick that works well in politics is betrayal. Look up the documentary on the economic collapse in Argentina.

[weegg]

$$$$ trumps freedoms

[Super2online]

It's very unfortunate but in many cases your right, money does trump freedom. But Google shouldn't claim the moral high ground on one hand while at the same time doing this kind of stuff behind your back.

[ralfthedog]

Google left back doors open to let the Chinese people see content that was restricted. You had to know the content was there. If you did, Google made it easy to see.

[ddesy]

Although Google is lending a helping hand to the censors in some ways, it is clear that they are leaving some holes for people to get through. I'm glad to see that.

China can put requirements in place for PCs sold to have software that goes against basic human rights, but you can bet that there are plenty of people who will simply work around that. After all, it isn't as if they don't have access to Linux and other versions of Windows (whether legal versions or not).

[InklingBooks]

Google says that, "Google.cn complies with Chinese laws."

German business and universities said much the same thing when they followed German laws and their fired their Jewish employees in the 1930s. "But it's the law," is a pitiful excuse. And unlike those Germans, Google has an alternative. They have always had the option of visibly and loudly yanking their business out of China. We could respect them if they did that. No one respects the greedy little excuse-making corporate wimp that is Google. Notice how carefully it tweaked its anniversary search results for " Tiananmen Square" to please the Chinese government, which had apparently not even asked for the favor. They could have at least done an "oops" and let the searches work until an angry phone call came in from Beijing.

Since censorship is at the top of the list of sins for someone in the information business like Google, is there anything else Google wouldn't do if the law demanded? Would they reveal who is making 'forbidden' searches? Would they do the same here if our government turned bad? Are they already tilting search results here in ways that fit their corporate or political agendas, particularly with Google News? I've seen evidence of that. We can be almost certain that someone who'd do something unethical to suit someone else in the face of widespread criticism would also do something unethical to serve themselves, particularly if they can conceal what they're doing.

A tale is told of an American who solicited the sexual favors of an attractive French noblewoman, offering her $50,000. She hinted that she was interested. He then bluntly asked her if she'd have sex with him for $50. Outraged, she replied, "What sort of woman do you think I am?" He answered that that matter was settled, that they were merely haggling about the price.

China's market is huge and potentially lucrative. Some time soon look for Google to protest loudly when some little and impoverished dictatorship asks for business on the same terms as China's. When it comes to Google, ethical debates seem always in the end to be 'haggling about the price.'

Much the same is true of Google's current efforts to twist a class-action settlement into a scheme to acquire de facto U.S. copyrights to virtually all the out-of-print books authored on the planet. There Google is showing no concern not just for national laws, which require a copyright holder's permission, but for carefully crafted international treaties such as the Berne Convention, which forbids precisely what Google intends to do.

When censorship makes them money, Google censors and points to laws as an excuse. When copyright laws get in the way of making money, Google shows no concern for what national laws or international treaties say. Fortunately, the latter issue is still in the hands of a Manhattan court. Google's attempt to distort a class-action settlement into an end-around well established law could crash and burn.

The issue of "orphan works" is one that can only be settlement by international agreements. Google's heavy handed attempts to bypass that could add years of delay to any such agreement.

[Mergatroid Mania]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Come on Google, get some balls and leave China. Tell them to make their own damn search engine.

Maybe it's time for some laws preventing any company that operates in North America from assisting in censorship in any country.

We can tell what's more important to Google (and other companies and governments too), money or human rights. Of course, the allmighty dollar comes in first.

[apple-pi]

"They have always had the option of visibly and loudly yanking their business out of China"
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

I find it mildly amusing how everyone encourages Internet companies to leave China due to censorship concerns, and at the same time no one finds anything wrong about buying cheap stuff made there. I mean, common, the US runs a huge trade-deficit with the country and has been running it for years.

I do not think it is news to anyone that

(a) China finances a huge chunk of the US debt.
(b) Every time you go to a store and buy a tube of toothpaste, there is a good chance it is made in China.

If you want to know who cooperates with the Chinese government, just look into a mirror... and we know it, and we do not care as long as our toothpaste is cheap. But then, when the subject comes up, we are suddenly good guys?

[Seaspray0]

@apple-pi. My sentiments as well. And have you noticed that all that stuff they make tends to break?

[desertcities]

What Google should do is franchise out their name and allow the Chinese to run their own Google, since they pretty much do this already.

China has always been more of an intranet verses being part of the internet. They are so large that they basically are their own internal internet controlling what the people see and hear. That's what communist countries do. So we shouldn't be surprised so much at what Google must do to stay alive in China.

But at what point does it affect America when Google censors information that reflect America's ideas, beliefs and policies? The very things that founded our country. I mean after all, the last time I checked Google was an American company. More specifically, China is a communist country and censorship goes hand-in-hand with communism.

For example, if a military situation took place over N. Korea or Taiwan, how much censorship would Google.cn require to keep the truth from others? And does this type of situation ever turn into a viable threat to America? China has plenty of allies that are not so friendly with America. Allies tend to stick together, bully together, watch each others' back.

It makes one wonder how much will someone compromise and sell-out to the highest bidder, especially if they are working and living in another country? Namely, if one is willing to censor, and perhaps even change, information for the sake of that country it's working in, they might be willing to go even farther and commit a lie or two.

I think there's a lot to say about patriotism. Whatever country you are born in, you do have a great pride for your country, and rightfully so. Google was born in America, and my hope is that Google remembers that when times get tough.

[hkslai]

Youtube is still blocked in MSN Space

[i_made_this]

@ hkslai

As is google.cn still being outflanked by the Chinese government as of 63 minutes ago, Google's recent comments not withstanding.

But we know that:
(1) we Americans still live in the home of the free and the land of the brave
(2) we are not owned by the Chinese Government's investment portfolio
(3) Japan was wrong when their Chief of State once referred to the Chinese as "barbarians" - how very silly of Japan to have taken such an offensive POV to an ancient culture that's been in business - big business - longer than any other on earth!
(4) we would never dare action anything remotely military against a so-called "communist" country that refuses to respect the sovereignty of a free and democratic island nation named Taiwan

So, we've established many things in this fascinating article and this comments section. BTW, Google got that "do no evil" handle from the MD Hypocratic oath. Those Googles were just kidding. We Americans know that - I mean, have you ever encountered an American MD who does no evil? Of course, you haven't! That'd be as silly as saying that you've ever been "hacked" by Google! C'mon .. a huge publically owned American firm doing such things?

But wait a sec... . Come to think of it, didn't GOOG admit to having hacked google.cn in this very article? And in a manner they refused to disclose, no less? Google adores competing Search Engines, just like Microsoft Live Search (or whatever it's called this week) does? You know Google's CEO would never throw desk chairs across his office in fury, or something equivalently politically correct, the way that Ballmer guy did, right? Right??

There are those amongst us who'd say that at least Steve behaved honestly. He didn't even sue journalists' publications for sharing that alleged tidbit.

I mean, c'mon, you people are acting so silly with all of this gossipy "news". CBS would never do such a thing. It's not they're an entertainment firm. I think they were at some point, but they're journalists now. Remember that, please .. a bit of of respect is in order.

No advertising [of what?? in a news publication, no less?]. ah! perhaps they mean of competing publications .. I always wondered. Anyway. No profanity. No personal attacks. Oh, and for those of you who forgot, it also says: "Click [below] to 'review' this [CBS' publication's] Terms of Service."

Is that what this Google thing is all about? Who're the Saints and who're the Sinners? Please. I'm sure that "moral high ground" would disallow an important publication like this fine one from wishing to do do business in China like those bums at GOOG.

Aren't you? If so, you may wish to stop buying PC's from Lenovo - BTW, should you need to get in touch with Lenovo's Senior Management over this sorry state of affairs, you can contact that Chinese firm's Senior Management on the long-time "IBM Campus" located in a suburb of New York. It's right around the corner of Pepsi - you can't miss it.

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