Comments on: Netflix to hike up monthly Blu-ray fee by up to $8

Video rental site raises prices on renting Blu-ray Discs by up to $8 a month, for a total of $9 a month for its heavy users. The change is going into effect next month.

[GotCobol]

I pay extra to get a few blu ray's a month, but I can stream HD content to my xbox or tivo all day long 365 days a year and not pay a dime extra? something just does not make sense.

[checodaman]

What doesnt make sense? Blueray was free for awhile but they eventually decided on raising prices. Im guessing that they havent put much thought into the pricing for streaming HD content...yet.

All in all Netflix is an awesome deal in my opinion. I pay less than $10 a month for unlimited streaming video and 1 in 1 out.

[sanjayb]

Streaming HD isn't the same quality as BluRay.

[BigGuns149]

Bluray is uncompressed 1080p. The Xbox 360 videos are compressed 720p AFAIK. The amount of data in one Bluray disc is easily 3 times as much data as the "comparable" "HD" content you are referencing. Furthermore, you are paying for the bandwidth even if you don't realize it (ie. it isn't free merely because you don't seem to notice the cost).

The only thing that doesn't make sense is your entire post, GotCobol.

FYI, Bu-ray is not uncompressed, it's just not as compressed as streaming HD.

[BigGuns149]

FYI, the bitrates on streaming "HD" aren't even close. Bluray is typically 20-30Mbit/sec while most streaming "HD" is 4-8MBit/sec. Save for Bittorrent you aren't going to find any feature length films that are going to a comparable bitrate at this point. Streaming content certainly is giving DVD a run for its' money, but Blu-ray wouldn't face serious competition from legal online streaming for a couple years.

[GotCobol]

My comment is not a comparison of the quality of Bluray vs. Streaming. It's a comment on them claiming that the new increase is because of the cost of buying the Bluray disks. The massive amounts of bandwidth they require for the streaming of HD to xbox,Tivo, etc.... is also extremely expensive, but not passed on to their customers....

I can get 1 bluray a month and have to pay 3 dollars, but I can stream to my hearts content 24/7 and not get charged a dime extra.

[SoCalHampshire]

Wait...so youre complaining about the fact that Netflix is essentially subsidizing the cost of you streaming HD content? Uhhh?

[celticbrewer]

it costs a lot to mail out those movies and pay for the warehousing, labor, and logistics of that all, too. Yes, bandwidth costs money, but so does the physical rentals.

[hansinla]

It doesn't make sense because Netflix doesn't have enough copies per title on Blu-Ray.
So you wait forever for the most current titles and get shipped foreign films and documentaries on plain old DVD while you wait for the titles that you really want to see.

[GotCobol]

and at least in the case of my self and co-workers, about 30% of blu ray disks received are cracked and must be returned.

[Stammy12]

This is why I could never justify a Netflix account. The subscription model doesn't work for me. If they increase the price anymore it won't beat pay per view. On VUDU HDX movies are now less than paying for a 3 at a time Blu-ray plan.

[BigGuns149]

I don't really understand your argument at all. Vudu costs $4-6 per "HD" film that you rent. The 3 at a time plan now cost ~$21 with Blu-ray access. If I only watched two Blu-ray discs a week, which is so little that the 3 at a time plan is a bit overkill it would be cheaper to pick Netflix instead of Vudu and that is before you ignore the cost of buying the Vudu box($150).

I have played with Vudu before and I like the UI of the Vudu box and their library of SD content is slightly better than Netflix's streaming collection, but the price points seem relatively high for renting the HD content and unless you watch films relatively infrequently most people would be better off with Netflix.

If you were arguing that Vudu was better because their collection of stuff you could watch at the spur of the moment was better I would agree with you there, but I don't really see price as being Vudu's major selling point at all.

[Stammy12]

My point was that most people aren't renting purely Blu-ray discs from Netflix. I could rent around 5 movies all in HD from VUDU in a month for around $21. Of course, I wouldn't want to watch all of these movies in HD, just as most Netflix users aren't watching every movie in HD. Therefore I could rent more than 5 with SD prices.

Factoring in turnaround I think this is comparable to having a 3 out at a time Netflix plan, if not better because of the lack of wait time and the movie are not listed as "Wait" or "Long wait"

[iautom8u]

The ONLY way I will continue to use Netflix with the increase is if I actually get shipped some of the Blu-Ray moives that are at the top of my queue. I have waited for about a month to get Madagrascar2 for my daughter.....finally came today.

[celticbrewer]

maybe it depends where you live. I very very rarely ever have trouble getting a newly released BR disc. At worst it's a "short wait" which usually means 2 to 4 days.

[repete66211]

It's location but it's also the movie you choose. I've never had more than one disc at a time, but then I rarely have the blockbuster movies at the top of my queue. If it's the #1 movie in Netflix and you want the Blu-ray version you're probably going to have to wait.

[codynews]

F blu ray. Just download the movie.

[megustansalchichas]

this is ridiculous. netflix can negotiate good rates for blue ray disc purchases, since they buy in bulk. this just smacks of opportunism and opens the door for Blockbuster to start offering blue ray rentals for the same price that Netflix now does DVDs, or at least a few bucks less.
but I guess if you already have a blue ray player you're an early adopter and have the extra bucks to shell out. i'll wait until there's enough titles that the rental prices of blu ray come down the same price as dvds.

[dragonsky1]

Blockbuster already does. There is no difference between rental plans on BB, whether you choose bluray or DVD. You simply change your disc preference, and it will automatically send you blurays for available titles.

[supergoodnachos]

Lame. I understand Blu-Ray disks cost Netflix more, but when each disk is sent to thousands and thousands of customers what is the additional cost per transaction, a few cents over the life of the disk? This to me doesn't justify the huge price increases. $1 or $2 seems like a reasonable premium, $4+ more per month is a rip off and $9 is an ass reaming. I expect fee increases to use streaming (or caps on quantity) are coming next.

[ramarc]

a $9 increase ONLY if you're already paying $48 a month! for most folks itwould be a $3-$4 increase. and have you forgotten that Netflix lowered their rates just last year? they gave practically everyone a buck off each month.

[weggemana]

If they are going to increase the price of blu-ray they better begin to carry more copies of each movie. Right now it takes forever to get the new releases where I live.

[dcase99]

Mine went from $1/month to $4 per month, a 400% increase? No thank you! Canceled blu-ray access immediately. Vote with your dollars, pretty soon if we keep hitting them in the pocket book Netflix will take notice.

[BigGuns149]

Did you fail elementary school? Seriously? A shift from $1 to $4 is a 300% increase, NOT a 400% increase.

Why can't Johnny do arithmetic? It is simply: Mommy and Daddy can't do arithmetic either!

No, it is 400%. You seem to be the one who failed arithmetic.

[pianom4n]

yeah, that's a 300% increase, get your elementary school math right.

[BigGuns149]

Sorry, I hate to slam you, but you are the DUNCE!!! Worse yet, you are an idiot who doesn't even realize that you are an idiot.

When you go from $1 to $2 is that is NOT a 200% increase it is a 100% increase. A 100% increase means that the value is DOUBLED (ie. $1 to $2 is a 100% increase). A 200% increase would be another dollar($1 to $3) and a 300% increase is an increase from $1 to $4!

I SERIOUSLY hope that you DO NOT have any kids because that is 3-4th grade type math mistake! If you don't understand such basic math I am scared to think how much you have screwed up on more complex math (eg. exponential growth of interest). The vast math ignorance that people like yourself demonstrate is part of the reason why this country is in such a mess.

[Buick107]

The exact reason why I sacrifice and send my daughter to a private school!

[ender21]

BigGuns149, I hope YOU don't have kids. People can make a MISTAKE in math, but it's clear from the bulk of your posts that you're a jacka $ $ ON PURPOSE. That's a heck of a lot worse than anything anyone else is doing.

Try a shrink. Might help your very evident woes. You have many YOU problems.

[repete66211]

Don't be surprised if the vote you're casting with your dollar drives Blu-ray out of existence.

[faceless128]

this move only makes sense if they actually buy more than 3 of each bluray movie. if the price goes up, the queue time should come down.

[Renegade Knight]

They should be showing how much of that price is in the higher "Sony Tribute" that is paid just to use the format.

[tbsteph]

If Sony really wanted blu-ray to succeed, they would charge less per DVD - not more. I'm sorry, but on my 65" HDTV upscaled DVD and downloaded HD content looks great. I refuse to spend more money for a blu-ray player or disc to gain a very minor improvement in resolution.

[BigGuns149]

Your first sentence doesn't even make sense! Are you trying to say that Blu-ray discs should be cheaper than regular DVDs? That doesn't make sense because the discs cost more to create. Are you trying to say that the prices should go down? That would still be a silly statement because the prices have come down. My local Fry's now has a Blu-ray discount section with discs starting at $7. 2 years ago when Blu-ray launched I didn't see a single Blu-ray titles selling for less than $20.

BTW, you do realize that companies other than Sony make Blu-ray discs? Sony doesn't control the prices that other studios sell their discs for.

If you don't have a Blu-ray player how are you so confident that there is no difference? I will agree with you that there are some titles where the Blu-ray version may not be worth the premium, but that doesn't mean that Blu-ray is the same.

[-Roddly]

It absolutely blows my mind people will spend thousands for a 65" HDTV just to watch SD and faux HD content because watching HD movies, half the reason to own one, is too expensive. Way to be frugal.

[-Roddly]

What's even more mind-boggling is that people will spend $200-300 for a box and pay an extra 10 bucks per disc, a total of 60 bucks, to watch their video game toons in HD, all while complaining about BR price and claiming they can't tell the difference in upscaled SD. If you look at the comments for these BR articles you can tell it's based on silly video game wars for many people, because people associate BR with Sony,("Sony this, Sony that") even though there are numerous patent holders for BR, just like there are for DVD's (which Sony is a part of too).

[fiver0013]

I don't buy Netflix's justification for this price increase. First, the increase in titles and/or copies available is difficult for the customer to measure. Perhaps the former is true; however, the well publicized shortages of Netflix Blu-Ray discs prove the latter hard to believe. Netflix could do a better job of publicizing both facts, particularly to prospective customers.

Finally, the contention that Blu-Ray discs are significantly more expensive than DVDs is only a half truth. Studios have reduced DVD prices in the past year or two because of declining sales and in an effort to push Blu-Ray. Still, many new release Blu-Ray films now cost what first run DVDs cost a few years ago: $20-$30 per title. Netflix was clearly profitable a few years ago with DVD prices at those levels, and they have been reaping the savings of declining DVD prices since. Thus it's a bit disingenuous to claim the extra costs are entirely "new"; I'm not convinced they're proportional either.

I suspect what's really happened here is that the studios have recognized Blu-Ray as an opportunity for pricing leverage with Netflix. They might have given too ambitious discounts for DVD bulk purchasing, and they've recognized the format transition as an opportunity to start charging Netflix something closer to retail prices. Moreover, they see Netflix's increasing market power and a threat from HD "Watch Now" to Blu-Ray profit margins. Remember, the distribution and production costs when shipping to Netflix are lower than those in a consumer sale (one destination, no packaging, no retailer in the mix), so the distribution cost savings vs. streaming are lower too.

Expect a more limited HD selection granted to "Watch Now" in order to push Netflix customers towards subscribing to the Blu-Ray service. This will drive up Blu-Ray sales numbers for the industry.

[BigGuns149]

While the Watch Now feature is neat it isn't HD quality. I don't think Netflix really sees it as a competitor to Blu-ray at this point. Ignoring the likely higher licensing fees for the 1080P versions of the same content you would be easily spending 3-5 times as much on bandwidth costs to stream HD versions of the Watch Now content.

I've watched Netflix's streaming content and while it is decent it isn't the same as Blu-ray content. The bigger reason that Netflix hasn't been able to dramatically expand their catalog is because there is a lot of content that the media companies haven't licensed to anybody for online streaming yet! At lot of media companies have taken a slow uptake to license their content period (ie. you wouldn't see it on iTunes, Vudu, etc. either).

[fiver0013]

I stream off the Xbox which often results in much better quality than PC streaming. You are indeed correct that it doesn't match Blu-ray for quality, but I'd argue that most consumers won't be discriminating enough: they perhaps care about pixels but don't care about compression, bitrates, or artifacts. Look at the crap that cable providers call HD on demand or the "HD" films coming through the iTunes store. I think Netflix's "HD" streamed episodes of The Office are far better quality than most of these options.

Your point about licensing is also well put. Still, I think the extra revenue coming from Blu-ray sales to Netflix will only be a further deterrent to media companies contemplating streaming. What's the incentive for streaming through Watch Now if they can guarantee greater revenue through Blu-Ray sales? Netflix only charges extra for the latter...for now.

[BigGuns149]

Great point about that Netflix doesn't charge any extra for streaming for now. I don't think that they will force people to pay extra for the feature, BUT there has been talk to make a premium tier for more expensive content. Except for briefly offering Spiderman 3 most of the Netflix instant view catalog whereas films are concerned is a lot older stuff. They have a OK selection on new TV shows, but finding a streaming title that came out in the last 2-3 years isn't easy. At some point I imagine that either the cheapest plan with unlimited streaming will increase in price or they start their premium tier so that they can make more money off of people willing to pay to watch more expensive titles.

[pentest]

The difference in quality between dvd and blu-ray is so slight, only a lemming with a low brains to money ratio would dive in.

[sandrat888]

The price hike is way too much than the value that I got from my currently Netflix plan. I usually have to wait for months for new releases and many titles do not even have Blue Ray.

I just downgraded my plan for 3 out with Blue Ray Access to 2 out with Blue Ray Access and it is actually $1 cheaper than my current 3-out plan.

[stuntman_mike]

It is very simple. Switch to Blockbuster. Netflix has gotten more and more ridiculous since I left. My worst fear is that Blockbuster goes bely up and I have to go back to them.

[dragonsky1]

Yeah same here. I originally went to Blockbuster because of the free instore rentals, and they were cheaper at the time anyway. Now that you factor in the added cost for Bluray, I'm really glad I didn't go with Netflix. I just hope Blockbuster sticks out the poor economy.

[AceinLA]

I switched to blockbuster a year ago and never looked back. With blockbuster there is no premium for blu-ray (although you often have to wait a while to get the disk). I love the ability to return the disks to my local store for another movie or a discount on a PS3 game. Also, when you rent in store you get an extra week, which is nice for the games. It is also much easier to get the new release blu-ray disks from the store rather then the mail.

[BigGuns149]

Considering that BlockBuster has increased the cost of their plans and cut the free instore rentals I would say it is a bit unfair not to mention that Blockbuster's plan has gotten less appealing as well.

[dragonsky1]

Blockbuster still has free in store rentals, but the amount you get depends on your plan. Not to mention, the free rentals were never part of it originally. They were added much further down the line when they created Blockbuster Total Access. The current online only plans are a little more expensive than a few years ago, but still offers a better value than Netflix.

[WahooonYahoo]

Started with Netflix moved to Blockbuster

Blockbuster had 3 at a time movies AND 3 in store movie OR game rentals for 15 or 16 bucks a month.

Then the prices went up and up and up and they started to remove items like free game or movie coupons from 3 to 2 to 1 to 0!

They started the "swap out a movie" for a movie program and it was awesome at first AND THEN it all went downhill fast. The free "swap out a movie for a movie" system fees appeared then it went down to 3 swaps a month, then it was removed entirely from the plan that I had.

After the plan was stripped down and the prices jacked way up they sent me an e-mail telling me that I was actually getting more now than I was before!

I sent them a screen cap with my old plan and bills showing my old plan and they talked to me like I was a moron for not agreeing with them.

Their customer service was AWFUL and I finally had enough and switched back to Netflix.
At least I'm not bitter about it...

Hopefully they will get flooded with calls and e-mails so this nonsense is reversed because I fear that this may just be the start of more price hikes.

So if you are unhappy with this CALL THEM! (which if you call the number they gave you in the e-mail you will not get in touch with them)

The real number is 1-866-716-0414.

I called earlier today and the CS rep did not disagree with my anger or defend Netflix at all, they know it's BS.

[umbrae]

I agree with OP. Blockbuster has been much more responsive to me as a customer then NetFlix ever was. Blockbuster is now cheaper than Netflix, and for $5 (and only the month you have one out not all the time) you can rent games. Sure they canned in-store returns, but I never used it anyway. Why would I get stuff through the mail and want to ride to the store.

Netflix is evil and only wants your money. They will hook you with features then remove them or start charging for them. I NEVER GOT NEW RELEASES from Netflix, and they even hide new releases from their search. BB is almost ridiculous how often I get movies on the DAY OF RELEASE.

I had a lot of hopes for Netflix and hated BB, but 6 months on Netflix was a punishment and a waste of money. This move only proves they will do anything to charge you more.

[repete66211]

Go to Blockbuster? Excuse me? Were you born yesterday or do you have no long-term memory?

Blockbuster is exactly why Netflix became successful. Blockbuster's corporate policy was to milk their customers for every penny they could. I mean why, not? It's not like there's any competition. People also grew tired of a store that had 1,000 copies of the latest Adam Sandler movie but no foreign/classic/cult//arthouse section. Besides, Blockbuster as it is now is nothing more than a direct ripoff of Netflix. They're just copying their business model.

[ewelch]

Well, I can see Netflix argument if this is the case that the Blu-ray manufacturers see this as a way to extort more money per disc. But I better be getting the whole disc, the same as if I bought it retail. And not the discs that won't have any of the special features that the movie studios are talking about.

But Netflix is wrong to not reveal the difference in price. I really think it won't justify the difference. Blu-ray discs are more scratch-resistant and should have longer service lives than DVDs. The increase is way too much. I'm seriously thinking of downgrading from three a month to two a month, but that only saves a buck.

[DavidEsrati]

This may have been the true pivot point in the power of twitter. Considering Twitter/Blu-Ray and Netflix are all tied together by geek users who are influencers and early adopters- the power of the backlash was almost instant. Has marketing changed? I wrote about it here: http://www.thenextwave.biz/tnw/?p=675
If I was the person who came up with this at Netflix- I'd be looking for a job.

[Videotronic]

wow who would have thought that "HD DVD" should have been the winner of this format war after all.
If HD DVD won we wouldn't have this issue.

[BigGuns149]

This is a decision by Netflix. HD DVDs were actually LESS durable than Blu-ray discs, which is why Netflix stopped adding new HD DVD before HD-DVD died. I fail to see what Blu-ray's win over HD-DVD has to do with this story, but than again HD-DVD fans never seemed to acknowledge that Toshiba was subsidizing the cost of HD-DVD. It was only "cheaper" because Toshiba was betting the farm that they could make up their close to a Billion dollars in subsidies on the back end.

[GotCobol]

BG if HD-DVD was so less durable then why did I never receive a single HD-DVD form netflixs that was cracked or non-playable. Where as BluRay about 3-4 in 10 disks must be returned because they all have the same little crack?

if what I have read and my own experience, this increase may in actuality be due to extreme losses of disks to cracking in their shipping process, not to increase disk supply.

[Videotronic]

Sure BigGuns this is why SD DVD is still the #1 format as it is as durable than HD DVD, I am so tired of the BS about the scatch proof? coating on a BD disc, they are also MORE expensive to make than a SD DVD or HD DVD thus why the great Netflix is hiking prices. duh

[celticbrewer]

I've watched mainly BR movies from Netflix for the past year and I've only had 1 disc with an issue. Maybe GotCobol should complain to his/her local post office.

And when it comes to the physical cost of printing the media itself, I'm sure it's pennies. Sure, the licensing and equipment and all that jazz costs money, but in the end, the product is just some plastic and metal. It'll eventually even out. I've seen BR sales for $9+. Yeah, they're old or unpopular movies, but considering there's normal DVDs selling for $20-25 still, obviously it's not all about the manufacturing cost.

[littleM]

Any way you look at it, Blu-ray media cost more than DVD since there is less equipment, it is all licensed from Sony, and there are special DRM fee to pay for authoring content. While there is an antiscratch coating on Blu-ray (Durabis2 or AccuCorse 2 or ScratchGuard or whatever), they are the same 1.2mm thick polycarbonate as CDs and can break in transit (those USPS sorting machines are not always kind). Most of all, Sony has no intention of letting their technology become commoditized. It wouldn't surprise me if Sony wasn't behind the price increase in order to keep their $8-14 premium for retail sales up.

[Lerianis3]

Excuse me, but if the discs from the places that I buy DVD's from can get them through the mail in those folders without problems...... Netflix should be able to do that.
As to the 'All the equipment to make the discs is licensed from Sony!'..... BZZT! WRONG! The technology ITSELF is licensed from Sony with the rights to USE the technology. The actual equipment to press Blu-Ray discs is NOT made by Sony itself, but by many smaller manufacturers using a template given to them by Sony.

[pentest]

LOL@leria

But all the money flows to Sony.

[emarkhasin]

I'm very disappointed in this move, I will have to downgrade my monthly plan now, and I think many people will do the same. I don't think that it is fair that people that have bd players now are paying more for the service, why just not to increase all monthly plans by 1 dollar for everyone, the idea is that people that don't have bd player now will eventfully buy them, and they will pay now $1 to use this disks in future, instead of just getting them when the price will be the same and not paying a dime to Netflix for acquiring a huge library of bd disks. I think its fair enough! It's not like blue-ray is an experimental standard so we should be punished by using it, we already punished by not having all movies in blue-ray! Everyone will have bd players at some point of time and I don't want to pay extra for those disks now so everyone can use them for free in future!!!

[open-mind]

Seems like Netflix should be offering something ... anything ... in exchange for the price increase. Like maybe an extra bonus CD out. Also, shouldn't economy of scale start making Blu-Ray cheaper at some point? Or is the cost of Netflix just gonna keep going up up up as Blu-Ray spreads?

I really don't need 3 disks at a time, so at the end of April I'll probably drop my account back to 2 at a time.