Comments on: 64-bit Vista, memory, and you

Gateway's newest desktop taught us a few things about how much memory is just too much memory.

[nxcmp]

So what!! Ya not many programs can take advantage of 6-8 Gig of RAM. As for the kind of person I am, have you even considered virtualization, as an option ? Yes don't hound me about it, the tests are viewed toward the modern user but still ! Say if you had 6Gig of ram, In a 64-bit OS you want an even amount of RAM to be split by the number of CPU cores you have. Have a Dual Core CPU? Great ! 3 Gig of RAM for each.

[maxdiputs]

Sometimes it really shows that the people at cnet don't have actual degrees in anything related to computer technology. The whole point of having 8gb of ram is so that you can turn off virtual memmory and the extremely slow paging file system. Why don't you rerun your meaningless tests but with the paging file in windows turned off. Then compare 2, 4, and 8 gb machines (6 is retarded and should be ignored because the memory sizes are usually 2 x 2 gb and 2 x 1 gb).

[The_Decider]

But if it doesn't improve performance like the benchmarks showed, then what is the point of spending more memory on RAM?

Yes, not having to use VM speeds things up, but not if the bloated OS uses a set percentage of RAM no matter how much you throw at it.

[The_Decider]

Why is 6 GB "retarded"? I suspect that you don't have an "actual degrees in anything related to computer technology" either, if you do let me guess: ITT Tech?

Since 6 is a multiple of 2X1, what is wrong with 6GB? Let's see your technically informed opinion on why it is "retarded"?

[The_Decider]

I forgot to add: The very act of having a lot of memory negates the need for using VM. Keeping it on is a very good benchmark for why well the OS manages memory. If you test 4,6, and 8 GB and the size of VM stays the same, that would more than likely means that the OS is not doing a proper job, and turning it off will result in considerably slower performance since there is no VM to help negate the overhead of disk access. If your system is using VM with 6 or 8 GB, turning it off will slow it down, is that simple enough?

A proper OS only uses VM when it is required. So either Vista is not a proper OS, or you are very uneducated. Probably both.

[maxdiputs]

In reply to the first response, Almost all implementations of the paging system use page tables to translate the virtual addresses seen by the application program into physical addresses used by the hardware to process instructions. Not to mention the fact that having this extra layer running slows the system if even the slightest, but windows will generally allocate some disc space as memory even if you have 128 gb of ram.

2nd response: The reason why I believe performance is degraded in using 6gb is because often times computer manufacturers will use different brands/types of ram when they are dealing with non-identical sticks. Because different types of ram (including the same brand but different sizes) have different channel lengths and times to clear, address, and input data into the different flip flops. This can lead to synchronization issues that would slow the memory if only by a little bit.

Third response: I really just think you wanted to take cheap shots at a particular operating system so i don't know how to respond to this.

By the way, a lot of people do go to ITT tech and although many schools consider it to be of inferior training and quality it doesn't give you the right to insult them. It would appear by the way you responded to multiple peoples questions that you just have a lot of anger.

[fauxnewsfox]

You are simply wrong. The third reply said it best, which oddly enough is the one you chose to give the least credence to.

"A proper OS only uses VM when it is required. "

exactly. The only thing disabling page files will do is stop constant access to the disk - if you run out of memory, it will start closing programs and/or crash on you. A proper Operating System manages it's VM as such that it will not use ANY unless it is needed by applications. as the_decider said, either Vista is not proper, or you don't know what you are talking about.

[dmarkle]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't think you can accuse any vendor of selling too much memory -- especially with virtualization becoming more and more mainstream. Very soon, even average consumers are going to start using VMs all over the place, and when they do, they'll likely need well over even 6GB of memory.

[The_Decider]

They are adding memory to try and hide the performance defects in Vista which are still very apparent.

[clrgj2]

Over the next few years, there will be even more applications and games that require 4 or more GB ram. But for now, i am happy with my 2GB :)

[ronnopiano]

I guess for the casual user, more ram doesn't always equal better performance. With that being said, I am a professional photographer & PC enthusiast who just built a new machine. I opted for 64 bit Vista Ultimate with a motherboard that supports quad core, 800, 1066 & 1333 MHz system bus. The RAM is DDR2 1066. I'm not running any paging files on any of my hard drives. I also run a MS Virtual PC as Quickbooks doesn't support 64 bit. I have MS XP Pro running as a Virtual PC. With all the Vista goodies left on, I'm still only using perhaps 20% of my RAM. So What? When I render video on this system, it's amazingly fast and uses all four processing cores. Anything to keep Windows from accessing scratch disk is a positive thing. RAM is King no matter what your tests show!

[Lerianis]

Some programs are 'Ram-hogs'. Most tellingly: video making and processing, however if you have a graphics card with a LOT of memory..... you won't use very much system memory when you are processing your videos, you will use the memory on that card.
Also, you did the right thing by disabling the paging file. That is the NUMBER ONE thing that slows down a modern PC: the freaking paging file for XP or Vista.
I disable it on EVERY machine I see that has over 2GB of memory, and the customers always tell me "What did you do? My machine is MUCH faster now!"

[Nighteye19]

I disable it on EVERY machine I see that has over 2GB of memory ---- That's just a bonehead move. It does nothing for performance because it won't use a PF if it doesn't need it. And when it does need a PF, well that will just crash the OS.

[Tinman52]

I would agree with everything above. Maybe the casual user doesn't need all the memory. However, there are a lot of ways to utilize more than 4GB of memory if you're doing something more advanced than MS Office with your machine. Computers need to be replaced/upgraded every so often, but I'd prefer to buy/build something that's not obsolete in 12 months. Last year 2GB was enough. This year, it doesn't get you too far. Next year, 4GB isn't going to be a lot.

[Lerianis]

Give up with the wish of building something that won't be obsolete in 12 months. Computer hardware/software changes SOOOOOO fast, that is the impossible dream, as I bluntly told my father.

[The_Decider]

The problem is that Vista uses so much memory that you don't see much in the way of performance gains, like you might with XP, Linux, or OSX.

Secondly, there are other factors that determine performance more than memory. On a lower end OEM machine, you are not going to get a very good processor, memory will be high latency, the video card will suck, and the HD will not post good latency and rotational delay times. The OS is also a significant factor, as there are many legitimate benchmarks that show that Vista causes common appls to run significantly slower than on the moderately performing Windows XP.

[Lerianis]

Excuse me, but Vista uses about the same amount of memory as XP does. I configured two EXACTLY ALIKE machines, one with Vista HP, one with XP MCE.... guess what? Without any security software installed or any running programs, the machines used the EXACT same amount of memory.

It's time to stop blaming all problems on 'Vista uses too much memory! WAAAAAAH!"
The real problem is that a LOT of people haven't updated their drivers (I find 5 or 6 new drivers for my laptop every month, especially for the graphics chip and the motherboard), which is where the performance problems are coming from.

Not to mention, a lot of people NEVER DEFRAGMENT (which I do on almost a daily basis).

[Nighteye19]

Not to mention, a lot of people NEVER DEFRAGMENT (which I do on almost a daily basis) ----- You defrag on a daily basis? Kind of an overkill isn't it? And there is no way that Vista uses the same amount of memory that XP uses. Plus, Vista IS slower at running the same tasks. Quit spouting BS.

[dreamer77dd]

i would have like to have known what would be using so much ram in the near future. what software, when it will come out and so on. i like looking forward tot hese types of things as for now i do not know what takes even 1 gig of ram. I only know it helps with manyy programes and windows to function right with 2 gigs of ram but for a programed to use ine gig of ram, i would not know what that is. Anyways more on software that needs ram and the future would ahve bin nice,

[rasmasyean]

How is running one program supposed to benchmark the advantage of more RAM? Try running 20 like how many office workers do. In addition, the Superfetch advantage (which is not even considered here) makes much use of multiple apps running and periodic usage. If you don't know what that is...

Vista uses extra RAM to store commonly used files in a new activity known as ?disk caching? (SuperFetch). The computer uses artificial intelligence to determine which files will be used most and copies it to RAM (where it is much faster than accessing your hard disk). This includes components of the programs you use on a regular basis. When you need more RAM for programs you launch, etc. the computer purges the ?least likely used? files from RAM to make room for the new program. So in theory, the more RAM (for disk cache) you have, the faster your computer will operate. This can also be augmented (to a lesser effect) with a flash drive/card with a technology called ReadyBoost. Just stick it in and select ?Speed up my system? and leave it there. Google ?AnandTech ReadyBoost Performance? for basic test examples.
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=735
High RAM will be especially helpful for those people who like to leave all their windows open and use Vista?s ?S3 sleep mode? (2 watts) so they can resume where they left off almost immediately after they turn their computers on. Your apps are pre-opened where you left them and your RAM cache is loaded too, just as if you just walked away and came back.

http://blogs.technet.com/askperf/archive/2007/03/29/windows-vista-superfetch-readyboost.aspx

Considering this, SuperFetch is probably the most significant feature that distinguishes Vista from all other OS's for the users across the board. Many other features won't be noticeable or even used by the common person (that is until commercial developers start using WPF/WFC etc., and even more DX10). So why not take advantage of it?