Comments on: Hybrid-electric carmaker readies 220 mpg 'super car'

Watch out, Tesla Motors. Hybrid Technologies is preparing a sports car for the Automotive X Prize contest.

[epinion]

"The gas-battery hybrid will get 220 miles per gallon while the all-electric will get 150-180 miles per gallon. "

The ALL ELECTRIC will get 150-180 miles PER GALLON. Please clarify.

[Heebee Jeebies]

I am sure that that is equivalent. Since most people rate millage as MPG it makes sense that they would put it in that frame of reference for people. Though they could have said that.

[Zero187]

"The gas-battery hybrid will get 220 miles per gallon while the all-electric will get 150-180 miles per gallon." Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the issue is that "all-electric" means that it doesn't use gas.. So why are they saying 150-180 mpg? Did they mean miles per charge?

[Zero187]

"The gas-battery hybrid will get 220 miles per gallon while the all-electric will get 150-180 miles per gallon." Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the issue is that "all-electric" means that it doesn't use gas.. So why are they saying 150-180 mpg? Did they mean miles per charge?

[mlamonica]

All-electric cars use a standard conversion to do MPG equivalents.

[sanenazok]

Why isn't EEStor entering the contest?

Could it be that the X Prize requires a real product?

[ArnieB49]

O.K., I'll bite. What does a 'gallon' of electricity cost?

[ArnieB49]

O.K., I'll bite. What does a 'gallon' of electricity cost?

[mikekrause]

The better question is how much coal is burned in order to generate this electricity?

[fuzzyCWD]

6 cents per kilowatt gallon? sounds right to me...

[totalmonkey]

I'm sorry but any all-electric vehicle that doesn't get INFINITY miles per gallon is just not worth buying.

Also, I noticed that, so far, no one has commented on this sentence: "But Hybrid Technologies has ambitious plans to make a range of cars that run on lithium-based batteries, scooters, bicycles, mopeds, motorcycles, cars." I wonder how many miles per scooter that car will get, or maybe miles per car -- I would love a car that runs on lithium-based cars, but only if I can get it in black.

[Vik Hathi]

I think Martin means 150-180 glasses of whiskey.

[gsekse]

They maybe using the "electric power to gasoline" calculated equivelence. Not sure, but I have seen articles that specifically discuss it.

[mlamonica]

Yes, electric cars use a measure that's meant to be the equivalent of miles per gallon. Sorry for the confusion.

For the nitty gritty, here's a snippet from Tesla's web site: Conversion from electric consumption to gallons of gasoline equivalent is calculated using the EPA conversion factor documented in the Federal Register: June 12, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 113), Rules and Regulations, Pages 36985-36992.

[fuzzyCWD]

well, just take ALL THE FUN out of our sails...

[hornerj99]

I believe the key phrase is "...will get the equivalent of 220....".

[ReVeLaTeD]

Finally...an efficient car that looks attractive. It's about time. Got tired of all of these horrendous looking hybrid cars.

[demner]

The term the article should use is "MPGe" (or MPG equivalent). So the electric motor uses the equivalent amount of energy as a 180MPG car (but of course with zero emissions). This metric is to account for differing battery sizes, fuel sources, etc

[Seaspray0]

Hmmm.. what should they call it? Well, they named an SUV with a big engine that sux gas, gets poor milage, and was made to tow things like big boats or trailer homes through the countryside on camping trips but poorly suited to commuting a "Suburban". Maybe they should name a fuel efficent car not designed for towing and camping but perfect for suburban commuters the "terranaut" (land voyager). It would fit will in the subdivision of "Piney Shores" where there are no pines, nor shores.

[hador_nyc]

When they say 150-180 MPG, they probably mean equivalent energy.

1 gallon of gas has 1.3 X 10^8 joules of energy in it.
1 KWH is equal to 3.6 X 10^6 joules
therefore
1 gallon of gas is equivalent to about 36.1 KWH of power

Here's what they mean then.
The car is efficient enough to average 220 miles per gallon of gas, but the all electric version of the car is not so efficient; it only gets 150-180 miles on 36.1 KWH stored in it's batteries. This is probably due to the extra weight of the batteries. Liquid fuels store more energy per pound than batteries. Gas is stored in a tank, and electricity in this car is stored; probably; in Lithium Ion batteries. As per unit weight, gasoline stores more joules of energy per unit mass than lithium ion batteries.

Gas also has the advantage of being used up as it goes. When you burn the gas, it's mass is converted into exhaust, and goes from the tank to the atmosphere. The batteries don't lose mass when the energy is used up. Think about it, your dead AA batteries aren't any lighter than when they were new, but carrying a tank of gas from the station to your lawnmower is harder than walking the empty tank to the station.

So, the article does make perfect sense.

[mattblasi]

First to totalmonkey, I think you need to reread that last sentence there is an "including" there that you missed.

About the car, it sounds like a great idea, but honestly my concern is price point and actual usability. Look at the other entrants for the X Prize they are cars that yes can get you from point A to B but are so light and small that they have less room than a Smart car. I have seen in persona many of the entries for the contest and so far have seen none that would make a good reliable usable method of transportation.

The reason most of these vehicles are getting great gas mileage is due to their weight and lack of structure. Good examples include the K1 Attack that was created as a hybrid, and the entry using an Ariel Atom chassis. I would not think it too hard to get great gas mileage when you are converting a car that already can get 30 mpg on a supercharged 4cyl gas motor over to a electric/gas hybrid.

Now lets look at cost, the Tesla Roadster which has gotten a great deal of fame is great for gas but the trade off is now you are spending $110K for the car. My annual gas cost on my 700rwhp turbocharged mustang is less than $4,000 a year so with a car that I have $40K into it would take me over 17 years to break even. Where is the trade off. A Toyota Prius has a better return on value.

I would love to see a production car come out of the X Prize but the rules for the contest do not focus on that and thus it will not happen. What I would pay more attention to is the auto manufacturers who are doing their own testing. Examples include the BMW Hydrogen 7Series, the Nissan Cube, the Audi's with their Bio Diesel and lets look at the fact that many race cars are running on E85 Ethanol.

In the end we will have to wait and see but at some point the manufacturers are going to need to pick a direction, just at the moment no one can decide which is the better option to adopt.

[totalmonkey]

The "including" was edited into the article after the fact -- my text was copy-and-pasted directly from the article. I just find it a little disheartening that most online "news" outlets these days do little-to-zero copyediting these days, and rely on post-publish reader comments for copy-checking. Journalism has taken quite a fall over the years, in content, merit, and quality.

[chuck_whealton]

All I have to say is that I hope they REALLY do make one that can be AFFORDED by the masses.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[fuzzyCWD]

i believe SCHWINN made one that is both economical, ecological, and affordable. they called it a BICYCLE.

[strategynode]

Cool exterior design, not so sure about its innards.