Comments on: Apple pushes Safari on Windows via iTunes updater

Company makes a more aggressive move to gain browser market share by offering Windows users the option of downloading Safari 3.1 in its Apple Software Update.

[gopnick]

Bold move

Apple is feeling gutsy, especially since Microsoft could stop Office
development at any time and virtually stagnate Apple's laptop and
desktop sales.

Is Apple becoming more of a software company?

[protagonistic]

RE: Bold move

I don't think so. With many of those same business people already
running virtualization software all it would do is shift sales from
the Mac version to the Windows version. Or, even worse for MS
more people might actually find out they really don't need MS
Office at all. :-)

[Penguinisto]

I doubt it.

MSFT cannot afford to exclude OSX from their Office product, for two reasons:

1) it makes them a lot of money

2) it will only bring Apple into the OpenOffice fold, and accelerate the delivery and replacement of a new and very powerful competitor to MS Office (even if it wasn't OOo). That would, in less than five years, destroy one of the two pillars that MSFT depends on for income.

/P

[The_Decider]

Apple is a software company

Hardware companies include the like sof Intel, Motorola, Cisco, etc.

They can be sort of compared to Dell, but Dell is not a hardware company either. Putting together hardware is not the same thing as designing and fabricating it.

Yeah, Apple has a few pieces of hardware they can truly say they created, but they produce way more software.

[Jonathan]

If Microsoft did this....

Everyone would be screaming bloody murder...but its Apple so it's OK.

[nmcphers]

If Microsoft did what?

Pushes IE on Windows users? They do. It's listed as 'critical update' too.

[technewsjunkie]

"This" is what made MS, MS.

You guys kill me. Do you read the news at all?

Apple is not a Monopoly, Microsoft is. That was determined by the
United States Department of Justice lawsuit against MS.

[Penguinisto]

Oh? How so?

...because last I checked, Internet Explorer arrives with the OS, whether you like it or not - you cannot remove it.

At least w/ Apple Update, you can uncheck the box, and *poof* - no Safari install.

/P

[jrgraff]

Itunes Updater for Windows

I run XP via Fusion on my Mac and really don't need Itunes installed on both Mac and Windows partitions. It sure would be nice to stop getting requests to install Itunes + Quicktime and now Safari when running Windows.

Anyone know how to do this?

[lantzn]

Software Update

I have Fusion/XP. I believe you can go into the Control Panels and
use the add/remove software panel to remove the Apple software
updater. At lease that's what I think I remember seeing.

[henebry]

What's Apple's motive here?

I guess I don't understand how makers of free apps hope to make
money. What's Apple's motive? I see why they made Safari for OS X:
they needed a decent browser and didn't want to depend on MS
Explorer for Mac. But now that Firefox is going strong in the
windows world, what's the advantage for Apple in driving up
Safari's browser share?

[russkeller]

They got sick of loosing

I'm guessing they do it with this the same type of thing mozilla firefox does. I've read that mozilla gets millions from google for making it the default search engine.

http://blogsforfirefox.blogspot.com/2006/03/how-open-source-firefox-makes-money.html

[jelloburn]

Motive

It makes people aware of their brand. If a Windows user were to
download iTunes, Quicktime, and Safari and had great experiences
with them all, they are more likely to have a positive view of Apple.
Thus, next time they buy a computer, they might be more willing to
consider an Apple product.

[lantzn]

Safari for iPhone

I would guess that if more people use Safari it would force the web
developers to support it and would do away with the IE only
websites. Also the iPhone and iP Touch use Safari, so better
support for these would come also.

[Woodmon]

Positioning Safari for mobile market

I suspect it is about positioning Safari for the mobile market. when possible end users tend to remain loyal to the same vendors across different platforms (applies to software, hardware, appliances, consumer electronics, gizmos, etc). So if safari can get into the devices of desktop/laptop users then Safari has more chance to be chosen as the browser of choice when the market explodes for mobile OPEN platforms (coming soon to a device/network near you).

Note that Mozilla does not yet have any good solutions for the mobile market. They are far behind in that aspect. After FF3 is released watch for Mozilla to refocus a bit. the question is will Mozilla be in direct competition with Google? Or in cahoots as they have been on the desktop? It's difficult to figure out after observing Google's dev efforts for the iPhone and other devices.

And not enough people have complained about Apple now requiring the install of QuickTime if you want to install iTunes (note: there are workarounds to this which Apple does not let on too). So I supect they would try the same with safari.

Why they just don't try to slip iTunes + QuickTime + Safari as in one single download option? Is the FTC and/or EU lurking around the corner?

The Apple that everyone loved is now just the same as the grubbing MS that everyone loves to hate. And while you are at it you can throw Google and Sony into the same crowd. They all have their own plan and define openness in their own way with their own self-motives in mind. For better or worse that is what big corpoartions do.

[PortVista-19095313035016904102]

Bad taste in my mouth

This is what gives me a bad taste in my mouth about Apple. I never liked how it tries to install Quicktime with everything, and now Safari? And doesn't Apples try to install toolbars too? VERY BAD APPLE! GO TO YOUR ROOM!

[nmcphers]

umm....

Everything like what? You mean iTunes? You need QuickTime with iTunes. Not sure what other Apple product you use that pushes QuickTime. And no there is no Apple toolbars. Does google leave a bad taste in your mouth pushing their tool bars with Java, Flash, Adobe Reader, and a ton other installs? I think that's where your bad taste is coming from.

[protagonistic]

RE: Bad taste in my mouth

I hope you are a linux user so you won't be in really bad shape
after the taste MS leaves in your mouth trying to install IE and
WGA every time you update?

[lantzn]

taste

Boy! Then I'd hate to guess what kind of taste Microsoft leaves in
your mouth.

[Dead Soulman]

Don't care much for it

I have installed on my XP system and don't use it other than to check the websites we designed for our clients. Other than that, it stays dormant. Same thing with Opera and Internet Explorer. Other than that, I use Firefox.

[waldolc]

I'm with you on this one.

'Nuf said.

[book_geek]

Does it even work?

Installed Safari yesterday on WinXP system. First site I tried was Amazon, and the browser crashed. Uninstalled it immediately after. I expect better things from Apple.

[jamie.p.walsh]

I don't like that they snuck that in there

I was surprised to see an icon for safari on my desktop and nearly screamed at my mother-in-law for installing something on my pc after letting her check her email the other night. I paused, and then realized I just did an iTunes update the other day, and combined with the fact that she has no idea what safari is, I knew it wasn't her.

Thanks Apple, you nearly caused a rift in my family!!!!

[cynicalcheeto]

Perhaps therapy would work better...

So, basically, you blame Apple for you blaming your mother-in-
law for something you accidentally did. Sounds like Apple Software
Update is the least of your problems.

[protagonistic]

RE: I don't like that they snuck that in there

Perhaps if you would learn to read the list of programs to be
installed you could avoid this problem in the future. Oh, wait, I
forgot. You have probably been trained to let MS update install
anything it wants on your system and can't be bothered with
those details.

I have said it before, if you blindly accept updates from any
software company you deserve exactly what you get. Stop
blaming Apple and put the blame squarely where it goes. You
are the one who clicked OK, not Apple.

[Warhaven]

My Only Gripe...

My only gripe about Apple's updater is that you can't install just
Quicktime through it. Okay, so, I go to Apple's website and
download just the Quicktime installer, but when it's out of date,
Apple's updater insists that I install iTunes along with the
Quicktime update ... not just the Quicktime update.

Also, and this is the biggest peeve, would the updater please
ASK before it throws shortcuts onto my desktop? Maybe I don't
-want- shortcuts on my desktop. Every single time I update the
software, it has to throw shortcuts onto my desktop.

Oh, and XP x64 support would be nice.

[rcardona2k]

Uninstall Apple Software Update

Just uninstall Apple Software Update and/or iTunes from your XP
system. That's where the notices are coming from.

[scweezil]

easier solution

Disable the automatic update in your preferences. How hard was
that.

[delf76]

Let's Say Microsoft did something like this..

OK.. follow me with this scenario.

Let's say hypothecically speaking, Microsoft was the one that made the Ipod and marketed Itunes. The Itunes software is installed on a Mac and Microsoft decided "Hey, let's push Internet Explorer to all Macintoshes".

People would HATE this idea. But, I guess since Apple is doing it, it's ok... Whatever.

I really hate it when companies have a core product, and then on the next update, instead of just updating the core product, they push other crap onto the PC.

Personally, i think this is a bad move for Apple.

[lantzn]

IE on the Mac

Did you know that before Apple created Safari that MS IE was the
default browser on the Mac? Yes back in the late 90s Microsoft
paid off..., er invested in Apple and that was part of the deal.

[mudmanmike]

It is sneaky. But Safari is faster.

Other than my Iphone I have never owned an apple product. I
Declined installing Safari when I was prompted by Itunes, but I then
looked at the news articles on the subject. I decided to try it and
they are right. Pages definately load faster! I am blown away.

[cynicalcheeto]

Sneaky, but delicious

I concur. Safari seems to be a tad faster than Firefox, and is
definitely faster than IE. But what isn't these days?

[lantzn]

Web Standards Compliant

You will also find that Safari has been the leader in web
standards compliancy since it's release. Apple has worked hard
to make sure this browser renders pages the way they are
suppose to look. The only trouble I've come across are pages
that have been built to only run with IE. With Firefox and Safari
marketshare increasing monthly this is bound to change.

Check out how your different browsers render this web
standards test. IE is the worst.

http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2

[Brian]

Apple is better, but...

Apple is making better products, but their aggressive approach is
very wrong.

I feel that Apple is not very consumer friendly anymore.

There is NEVER a sale at an Apple retail store - EVER.

Yet, there is always a sale at Best Buy.

[blazted]

Bad move

I hate Safari for Mac's and many Mac users don't like Safari as well. And now they want to push it on through Itunes! Many users will simply install it by accident when Auto update kicks in as they wont pay attention. Why is Apple doing this. If Microsoft did this it would have a Lawsuit against them for monopoly.

[cynicalcheeto]

It's not a bad browser

I've become a bit disillusioned with Firefox recently, and when I
saw that Apple's software updater had decided that I needed
Safari, I was a tad peeved. I don't like it when programs such as
Windows Update decide I need to use their browser or email
client or whatever. I had some extra hard drive space, though,
so I downloaded it, intending to try it and then quickly uninstall
it. I ended up liking it enough to switch over, at least
temporarily.

All I'm saying is this: don't get angry at Apple for slipping it in
there until you've tried it. Then, you can get angry.

Also, don't yell at your mother-in-law. Never a good idea.

[cynicalcheeto]

IE = Safari?

But, see, part of the reason everyone would be in arms if Microsoft
pushed IE onto Mac users is because IE is an inferior web browser
(when compared to Firefox or Safari). That, and Microsoft has a
history of aggressively dominating their market, whereas Apple doesn't have that kind of reputation.

[Steve Hirst]

They call that a Browser

Why they are jamming it down people throats? Simple, I just went through it, it stinks, its horrible. Everybody has to be having a good belly laugh at Microsoft, Mozilla and FlashPeak. Yes it runs fast, that is because it doesn't do anything... duh.

[mudmanmike]

What dosent Safari do?

What is it that Safari is missing? I ask because I really do not know.

[lantzn]

FUD

You is the FUDmeister.

[sandersen68]

yea, it doesn't allow malicious software to be downloaded and installed w/o your knowledge whilst loading legitimate web pages at lightning speeds. Hmmm, what exactly are you looking for your browser to do other than provide an efficient method for cruising through the infinite amount of information on the web while providing the best security available this side of Carnivore? If I gave you a million dollars, you'd probably complain about how dirty the money is....gee whiz!

[Madison43130]

Go Apple

I use Safari on my PC and Mac its great. I have had trouble with IE
causing my computer to freeze since one of Microsofts updates.
Apple at least lets the user deselect Safari if they don't want to
download it.

[gambit32]

Not a chance in hell

I saw this come through yesterday. F no. I already have a browser Im happy with.

The utility is Updater, not Install-Crap-You-Don't-Want

[lantzn]

Neon

This guy came to my home and held out a set of keys to a Dodge
Viper. You know what I did? I told him, hell no, I'm happy with my
Yugo. The nerve.

[Fireweaver]

Why Apple is abusing their updater

I posted a comment about this on a CNET Safari story yesterday. Apple is being very shady in this practice. Here's why:

Apple allows you to install Quicktime and then asks if you want it to check for updates. Anyone that knows about Quicktime knows that Apple updates the software monthly or more with Critical Security patches. You'd be foolish NOT to update it. So you're stuck saying "yes" to get updates.

Apple, having you as a captive now, tries to constant push iTunes onto your PC to gain marketshare. Obviously this has worked well for them because they are now using their Quicktime install base to push Safari 3.1 as well.

And they treat the iTunes and Safari like they are critical updates! Even if you only have Quicktime installed and you've installed all of your Quicktime updates the Apple Software Updater (should be called "Marketer") pops up daily to tell you that you haven't installed your iTunes and Safari updates.
I haven't seen any options for turning that off or stating "Only solicit me with updates for installed software".

[lantzn]

Software Update

The Software Updater has an option to check for updates daily,
weekly, monthly or uncheck the box if never is wanted. It's in the
preferences.

[sandersen68]

oh and Microsoft would never install software w/o your knowledge, right? Give me a break. What company was under indictment for Anti-Trust in Europe for this very thing? You know, you can uncheck the 'Safari' box when the updater brings up the software update list. Just because most people don't pay attention, it doesn't immediately translate to 'maliciousness' on a companies behalf. Remember, 'Ignorance of the law is no excuse', well that also applies here albeit a slightly different meaning. Pay attention to what your computer is doing. It's only going to do what you allow it to do.

[jltnol]

the difference is....

With Apple, they ask you if you want to, and one click allows you
NOT to.

There is no way in hell MS would ever ASK you if you wanted to
download it... they'd just push it on you

[Seaspray0]

Lies

"There is no way in hell MS would ever ASK you if you wanted to download it... they'd just push it on you"

FUD! You can pick and choose which updates you want. You can even click an option to not show that update to you ever again. Except for a very small percent, updates also comes with an uninstall ability. You are also NOT receiving all the updates in automatic updates, just those that are critical. There are some optional updates that you must select manually or you will not receive them (i.e. hardware drivers).

Either you are intentionally posting lies, or are simply ignorant about windows.

[fl1ckmasterflex]

spoken like a true fanboy

[vanillacokehead]

deja vu....

Reminds me of when Apple tried pushing iTunes when updating QuickTime Player...

[o1d_dude]

Win2K Not Supported...

...but Apple Updater willingly installs Safari.

Does Safari run on Win2K? Nope.

Better change your TV ads, Apple.