Comments on: Why don't video recorders have HDMI inputs?--Ask the Editors

DVD recorders don't offer HDMI inputs. Here's why.

[Wilund]

As Close as You'll Get

About as close as you're going to get to recording any hd source is the Intensity card manufactured by Black Magic. It's the cheapest hdmi capture solution you'll find on the market (for now) but it requires a fairly beefy computer to support its technology and a pci express slot.

It's not a terrible solution, but as far as convenience it has a bit to be desired.

[Wilund]

As Close as You'll Get

About as close as you're going to get to recording any hd source is the Intensity card manufactured by Black Magic. It's the cheapest hdmi capture solution you'll find on the market (for now) but it requires a fairly beefy computer to support its technology and a pci express slot.

It's not a terrible solution, but as far as convenience it has a bit to be desired.

[Wes#1]

There are component inputs on some DVD recorders.

I used to have a Philips DVDR985 DVD recorder that had component inputs. Yes, inputs. This was not HD, of course, and the inputs only accepted an interlaced (non-progressive) signal.

That said, the DVDR985 recorder was a finicky pile of junk, like other Philips DVD equipment I've encountered. It stopped working after about 6 months and I could never get decent support from Philips (they employ clueless thick-accented phone operators off-shore reading scripts) for this DVD recorder, as well as Philips DVD player I bought. The DVDR985 is now a worthless doorstop. I'll never have another Philips-anything in my house and would not endorse buying a Philips machine just to get component input.

But I digress... I believe Philips has had component inputs on several of their recorders; other brands may (hopefully) also, but I'm sure there are restrictions such as 480i-only. Component-in is going to provide a cleaner recorded signal than S-video, and would be preferred if your camcorder (or PC) provides an output for recording this way to a DVD recorder.

[Larsd01]

In defense of Phillips

They DO make great electric razors....

[Wes#1]

There are component inputs on some DVD recorders.

I used to have a Philips DVDR985 DVD recorder that had component inputs. Yes, inputs. This was not HD, of course, and the inputs only accepted an interlaced (non-progressive) signal.

That said, the DVDR985 recorder was a finicky pile of junk, like other Philips DVD equipment I've encountered. It stopped working after about 6 months and I could never get decent support from Philips (they employ clueless thick-accented phone operators off-shore reading scripts) for this DVD recorder, as well as Philips DVD player I bought. The DVDR985 is now a worthless doorstop. I'll never have another Philips-anything in my house and would not endorse buying a Philips machine just to get component input.

But I digress... I believe Philips has had component inputs on several of their recorders; other brands may (hopefully) also, but I'm sure there are restrictions such as 480i-only. Component-in is going to provide a cleaner recorded signal than S-video, and would be preferred if your camcorder (or PC) provides an output for recording this way to a DVD recorder.

[Larsd01]

In defense of Phillips

They DO make great electric razors....

[gregbair]

Why would you need HDMI or component inputs?

Why would you when the DVD recorder can't record in anything above 480p? That doesn't make sense. Even an upconverting DVD recorder records in SD then upconverts on playback.

I see your point about why they don't (HDCP and all), but why do they need it?

[Wes3000]

Because even at 480 lines, component is superior

in quality to S-video and composite. It's all in the color seperation that component (red, green, blue) provides, along with lower noise. A component copy of a standard DVD or DV tape, or hi-8, will look far closer to the original than S-video.

[gregbair]

Why would you need HDMI or component inputs?

Why would you when the DVD recorder can't record in anything above 480p? That doesn't make sense. Even an upconverting DVD recorder records in SD then upconverts on playback.

I see your point about why they don't (HDCP and all), but why do they need it?

[Wes3000]

Because even at 480 lines, component is superior

in quality to S-video and composite. It's all in the color seperation that component (red, green, blue) provides, along with lower noise. A component copy of a standard DVD or DV tape, or hi-8, will look far closer to the original than S-video.

[tebz1123]

Japan set-top Blu-ray recorder?

Let's say I had the means to procure a Japan set-top Blu-ray recorder. Would would be the limitations of using it here in the US? Would it even be possible?

[tebz1123]

Japan set-top Blu-ray recorder?

Let's say I had the means to procure a Japan set-top Blu-ray recorder. Would would be the limitations of using it here in the US? Would it even be possible?

[JimOD]

So, what are we mere mortals to do?

I have been taping football games on my old VCRs (Mitsubishi). When I am taping, I can edit them "on the fly" to remove the commercials by simply pausing the record function when the commercial begins, backing up a few frames and continuing the recording from that edit point. If I want to make a DVD of the game I can then just copy the finished (or edited) tape to DVD.

This brings up 3 questions:

1. Am I correct (as I assume) that this recording method would be impossible on a DVR recorder? and

2. When we move to all High-Def Broadcast, how is one to record the HD broadcast? and then

3. While recording in HD, how will one be able to edit out the commercials "on the fly" (so to speak) while maintaining all the HD qualities of the broadcast?

Does anybody out there make a DVR that can do this? Or, will I continue to be stuck in the dark ages with my VCRs and analog signals from the dreaded cable company?

[jpfalcone]

the answers

@ Jim--here are the answers as I see them:

1. True DVRs would simply pause the live stream, so yes--it would be impossible to ride the pause button to edit out commercials on a DVR.

2. HD broadcasts can be recorded on DVD recorders with built-in ATSC tuners, although the recording will not be in high-def. To record in HD, you'll either need a DVR (no commercial editing) or a more niche solution, such as a Windows Media Center PC or something such as the Gefen HDMI Recorder:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-03/gefen-dvr-records-via-hdmi/

3. While recording in HD, it'll be extremely tough to edit out the commercials on the fly. You'll need one of the specialty options listed above.

If any readers have any better suggestions or options, please respond below.

[EdNowak]

I don't know why you'd want to make a recording without commercials on a DVR since it's a trivial thing to skip through commercials when you're watching a show from your DVR. This commercial skipping is certainly easier than what you go through to make a commercial-less VCR tape. But if you still really want to make a commercial-less VCR tape, then you could employ the very same technique you use now, but you'd be recording from a DVR playback rather than live TV. Or you could keep the VCR running continuously while you skip through the commercials on your DVR, but the VCR tape would pick up the jumps. (My Tivo skips in 30-second increments. I can skip through 4 minutes of commercials in perhaps 3 or 4 seconds.)

[JimOD]

So, what are we mere mortals to do?

I have been taping football games on my old VCRs (Mitsubishi). When I am taping, I can edit them "on the fly" to remove the commercials by simply pausing the record function when the commercial begins, backing up a few frames and continuing the recording from that edit point. If I want to make a DVD of the game I can then just copy the finished (or edited) tape to DVD.

This brings up 3 questions:

1. Am I correct (as I assume) that this recording method would be impossible on a DVR recorder? and

2. When we move to all High-Def Broadcast, how is one to record the HD broadcast? and then

3. While recording in HD, how will one be able to edit out the commercials "on the fly" (so to speak) while maintaining all the HD qualities of the broadcast?

Does anybody out there make a DVR that can do this? Or, will I continue to be stuck in the dark ages with my VCRs and analog signals from the dreaded cable company?

[jpfalcone]

the answers

@ Jim--here are the answers as I see them:

1. True DVRs would simply pause the live stream, so yes--it would be impossible to ride the pause button to edit out commercials on a DVR.

2. HD broadcasts can be recorded on DVD recorders with built-in ATSC tuners, although the recording will not be in high-def. To record in HD, you'll either need a DVR (no commercial editing) or a more niche solution, such as a Windows Media Center PC or something such as the Gefen HDMI Recorder:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-03/gefen-dvr-records-via-hdmi/

3. While recording in HD, it'll be extremely tough to edit out the commercials on the fly. You'll need one of the specialty options listed above.

If any readers have any better suggestions or options, please respond below.

[MaxxFordham]

1. We're NOT going to be suddenly switching to all-HD TV broadcasts. There is a switch to all-DIGITAL TV broadcasts that will happen in February next year, but this is not just HD. Unfortunately, plenty of shows will still be stuck in SD quality by then.

2. So you're recording to standard VHS and THEN to DVD? I wouldn't recommend that, because you're just lowering the quality of your video by doing that. Your video has a VHS-quality bottleneck if you do that. If you would record to your DVDs directly from your TV source (as with a standalone DVD recorder), then you'll maintain DVD-quality picture, and you can in fact pause the standalone DVD recorder just like a VCR. Not only that, but some allow you to just record straight through and then do split-edits to remove the commercial blocks between show parts (especially those DVD recorders with hard disks).

3. As for recording HD to removable media, read the above comments for the current disappointing answers.

[cedrictimmy]

Very distressing, that you cannot record from an HDMI source, as there is lots of good stuff now on the satellite which is broadcast in HD and which my Canal+ Decoder puts out in HDMI.

But perhaps there is a workaround.

I have found a device called a

"HDMI/DVI Scaler". A box which costs about $230 which converts HDMI to DVI and vice versa.

http://www.hdstep.com/Atlona-HDMI-DVI-Scaler-with-Analog-Digital-Audio-p-17507.html

Now, could I use the output from my Canal+ decoder in HDMI, pipe it into this converter, and get DVI output to put into a high quality HDMI capable recorder? Is this a useful avenue to be pursuing ?

Second question: I would like to network the recorder so that I can grab stuff I have recorded and store the files on a server on my local network. It seems very rare to have an ethernet connection on the recorders, although in my initial research I have found one that has one, the Pioneer DVR-LX61D. (Unfortunately it does not seem to have DVI input ... ) In any case, is this a usual use of the Ethernet connection on these devices, should I find an acceptable one? Is the disk readable (or writeable for that matter) from the network ?

Many thanks for your help.

Jon Cooper
Etretat
France

[sg71music]

HELP! I do not have an HDMI tv. But I do have a digital box so I can receive digital tv.
I use my video recorder with progressive scan to dub from VHS to DVD and record from tv to DVD.
Can I use a new JVC DRMV79B video recorder that has HDMI ?

Please reply. Many thanks

[malos333]

that sux for many legit users i have a sony hd cam with hdmi i want to get a blu ray recorder for 2 reasons 1 to record tv shows when im not home onto as i dont have any recorder at this time and to record blu ray movies from my cam into that as my pc is slow and would be cheaper just to get a blu ray player rather then buying a blu ray recorder and a new fast pc .....

do those tools in hollywood really think doing this will prevent any piracy NO cause its all done on pc`s not players on tv ....

[ukndoit]

99% of the time I get a "cannot record: copy-protected"...
sometimes it does work then when it tries to write it to the disk it then says "Cannot record: copy-protected", so it seems to only work 1% of the time. It does not matter what I try to record off my dvr, live tv works a little better, but I still don't get to record much, even commercials!!

So I think that it would not matter if it was an HDMI input or not, copy protection can be read by a slow input or fast and better quality one.

[wsbnradio]

If copying Hollywood DVDs are as rampid as noted, there is a very simple method put a stop to this activity. Frankly, I know a good deal of people both family and friends and I do not know a single one that copys copyrighted movies or whatever. Prices, for pre-recorded DVDs, have come down to a tolerable level for the average movie watcher; however, even a further decrease in the cost would eliminate those that find it still necessary to copy. When the cost of the DVD + cost of software + time + not having a neat folder for the movie library + the loss of high quality recordings and the loss of a well made disc lable = it is not worth copying a pre-recorded DVD. Hollywood pays out all the funds to find a way to stop copying pre-recorded DVDs and shortly after they come out with their allegedly uncrackable method, the uncrackable is cracked. The the process starts all over again. It sure seems to me to lower the price sufficiently where it is not worth the cost and effort for the copying of DVDs will either stop or greatly squash it down. I much prefer the impressive folder, high quality pictures and sound and all the extras than to add a inferior copied version of movies to be viewed on my 55" HD plasma television with a great sounding audio system is just out of the question. Hollywood just needs to get smart and make it not worth the effort to copy a movie. I have seen where record number of blockbuster Hollywood (or any wood where-ever) movies have had record sales. In a nut shell it comes down to Hollywood greed to want more and an individual's budget that does not include pre-recorded DVD movies that are rather expensive....especially blu-ray movies. The question, what came first high costly movies or the criminal?

[lecochonbleu]

It's such a shame that it has not been possible to record video signals by HDMI input. Naturally I'm thinking of the great benefit of standard definition including D.V.D resolution, and also 720p, home video clips upscaled on D.V.D. upscalers or Blu Ray upscaling to 1080p. It's a real waste that it can not be recorded somehow and burned to disc, even if some very good conversion program would be needed for a digital file. People would love their V.G.A. home clips much more.

[lecochonbleu]

... continued from comment. It's only now that home video editing software such as ArcSoft's Total Media Extreme and CyberLink's Power Director (v.8 Ultra) are getting popular with making upgraded resolution copies of standard definition home video - making these closer to H.D.

If it were also as simple as playing the blu-rays or D.V.D.s written in the past and recording the result, to Full H.D. resolution, it would be a great thing.

[BDraper62]

I found that the Astar 2100 DVD recorder (stand alone model) does not allow HDMI input, but does upconvert S-Vid signal to HD. It also doesn't suffer from copy protection issues. Unfortunately the hardware does suffer from a short life span and is no longer available on the market.