Comments on: PS3: Final nail in SACD's coffin?

While Sony PS3 can allegedly play SACD's, the truth is a lot more murky and may spell the end for an already dying format.

[GiveMeAUserNamePlease]

I'm willing to pay for something that sounds good!

I've lived with the disappointment of CD since 1984. 15-bits (+ 1-bit checksum)
at 44 kHz sounds terrible. It barely worked when it was introduced and it's not
much better now. SACD is the closest anyone will get to what engineers hear in
the recording studio. It failed because it's not easy to steal. DVD audio, another
vast improvement over CD, failed for the same reason. I'm willing to pay for
something better than a CD, but I suppose I'll have to lower my expectations
even more when the only format I can get is MP3.

[joegillespie]

right on...............

You get what you pay for....

[kurt]

burying the good?

it just takes a little switching which anyone can do-plug out plug in but the change of the sound will blow you away. but first you must know what your looking for/hearing for. it ain't mp3 sound.

[andrep74]

Death of SACD/DVD-A???

I don't know who told you there was a 1 bit checksum, but CDs are definitely full 16 bit. Back when good CD player servo mechanisms were expensive, an alternative was to put tons (6/14 bits) of error correction on the disc. Nowadays errors are less likely due to faster electronics driving cheaper servos.

CDs were difficult to steal in 1984, and were still difficult to steal in 1992, when they were as old as DVD-A and SACD are now. But the mainstream isn't interested in stealing them because 1) they can't afford the equipment to hear the difference and 2) they (think they) can't hear the difference. In fact, the mainstream even puts up with MP3 as an acceptable alternative to CDs, despite inferior quality.

A major reason CDs sounded bad at first was the inexperience of recording engineers in recording for a media that was vastly more transparent than, say, LPs. While there are a few rare ears that, in double-blind tests, can hear a difference between a well-recorded CD and a SACD, I'd venture a guess that the difference in soundstage, headroom, etc. only justifies the extra cost of the format when ear fatigue is taken into account.

[aka_tripleB]

I'm not too suprised about this

It's not like many people even know about them. They weren't widely marketed, and the only reason I ever even heard of SACD is because I just happened to see the little label after buying one. That's right, they don't have them proudly labeled as being superior CDs, probably because no one has the equipment to get the better sound. Quite frankly though, I couldn't care less about better quality, I listen to music for a distraction (mostly when driving), so I wouldn't even know that there is anything special about the disks anyway.

[markdoiron]

CDs Are Fine

CD quality is fine. Perhaps not for the audiophile; but it's easily the 99% solution. And it's orders of magnitude better than the formats that precede it (LPs and Cassette Tape), which is why it took off. Turning to HD DVD and Blu-Ray, there's only an incrememtal improvement over DVD. Which is why I believe they will go the way of SACD and DVD-Audio (unless one of them agrees to let the other rule the roost).

--mark d.

[jhracing]

Didn't even know

I own a PS3 and SACD player and didn't even know the PS3 played 'em! Without 5.1 channel analog outputs you won't get multi-channel or bass management, but I wonder how stereo SACDs sound. Might try a little back-to-back tonight.

[slbrownhk]

HDMI 1.3 can pass SACD

The PS3 has HDMI 1.3, which can pass SACD signals to a receiver that has an HDMI 1.3 input (1.2 is also SACD-capable as well, if I remember correctly). If you want to stick a fork in SACD, it should be due to the lack of titles, not due to the PS3. Regardless, it will live on as a niche format. I have three players and around 350 SACDs, and I've really enjoyed most of them, from a sonics perspective. I wish there was more rock available in the format, but fortunately, I'm also a fan of jazz and classical music, so I haven't been completely hung out to dry.

[ematcion]

Dave needs a reality check

David Carnoy obviously has no idea what the heck he is writing about. It's actually amazing he's getting paid at all to write. First of all, the Sony website Carnoy linked has long been abandoned by Sony. Same with Sony Europe's SACD website at superaudio-cd.com. Sony has since refer people to sa-cd.net for SACD info. Get with the program, Dave.

If Dave still thinks SACD will achieve mainstream acceptance, Dave must be hiding out in a cave somewhere for the last 5 years or so. However, as an audiophile niche format, SACD is quite healthy. According to sa-cd.net's numbers, 758 SACD titles were added to the site in 2006. That's an average of 63 titles each month. I personally has another 30+ titles that aren't even listed on sa-cd.net, including new releases from labels like EMI Classics. For 2007, new SACD titles have already been announced by Genesis (the beginning of a massive catalog reissue on SACD), Moody Blues, Rickie Lee Jones, and Depeche Mode, with a strong possibilty of a new SACD from Enigma (announced on its official website). Otherwise, classical SACD releases remain strong and audiophile label Chesky Records plan to go single-inventory hybrid SACD later this year. As of today, as listed on sa-cd.net, there are 4,328 SACD titles released worldwide. At the current release rate, 5,000 titles by year end is entirely possible. The titles are definitely out there and if you can't find them, the internet is your friend, Dave.

SACD can be transmitted using HDMI v1.1 already. Perhaps you have heard of the $150.00 award-winning Oppo 970HD universal player? Certainly, HDMI v1.2 and v1.3 can do a better job but such connection already exist. And what's wrong with listening to SACDs in 2 channel stereo using the analog outputs?

[joegillespie]

PS3 connected to a Yamaha YSP 1000

Okay so I can obviously play SACD on the PS3 but my YSP 1100 is connected via HDMI. Are you all saying it is crippled?

[dmac03]

No multi-channel support?!

Ok, has Dave even thought about looking at the PS3 manual?! Or does he just assume he already knows everything. The PS3 manual CLEARLY states that you can already acheive SACD multichannel output through the HDMI. This is no future possibility about it...the thing already works! Sure, sure...you do need an HDMI compatible receiver but you can grab the Onkyo '604 that can do a mighty good job (doesn't upconvert) for under $400 on the net. PS3 is a console for the future (not that past when you needed 6 RCA cables to listen to SACD)

[pcgamerguy]

I agree with Dave. SACD +PS3 = Worthless

I bought the Playstation 3 not for its gaming abilities, which I will never use, but for the ability to play high definition Blu-Ray movies and high-fidelity SACD sound. I hooked it all up to my Sony HDTV with component video cables and to my Denon Amp with a digital optical audio cable. (Although I have what I would consider to be fairly high end equipment, at around $3500 original cost for the HDTV and $2000 for the amp, they are each a few years old and therefore do not have HDMI inputs.)

The Blu-Ray movies played fine over my 5.1 surround sound speakers. After that positive experience, I excitedly purchased Dark Side of the Moon on SACD at a local store so I could listen to it right away, and then ordered about 20 more SACDs on the internet.

Lo and behold... the SACD will not play! All I get is a cryptic error message from the playstation saying "Use a different type of cable besides optical." Well, there are no other types of cable that will work! The only options are HDMI, which will not work with my amp... and dual (stereo) RCA cables, which obviously won't carry multichannel sound.

I'm completely disgusted that this $599 product won't play SACDs without another $2000+ investment in a new amplifier. Two words for you, Sony: "F--k that." I have canceled my order on amazon for all those SACDs; The pink floyd SACD goes back to the retailer tonight, if they will accept the return. As for the PS3 overall... I haven't made up my mind entirely, but I'm leaning toward returning it to the store as well.

[dlstone63]

Got SACD to work through the PS3 HDMI output!

Connected my PS3 to Sony's new STR-DG1000 receiver with an HDMI cable and was able to play Telarc's Sound and Vision SACD multi-channel sampler disc successfully on my 5 speaker setup. Have ordered a number of other SACD discs and will report my results with them once I get them.

[Steven H. Taylor]

PS3 a bad thing for SACD?

If PS3 were to seal the fate of SACD because you need a recent type of receiver to enjoy it, then the console must also ring the death knell for high-defition video (games and movies) since you need a recent type of display to enjoy that. The author's reasoning sounds like twisted logic to me.

Anyway, there's a new site for people who are interested in augmenting their PlayStation3's hi-def video set-up with high-resolution audio at http://www.ps3sacd.com

[applefool]

Ok, this guy is a moron...

"Even if Sony allowed for a digital connection, there isn't enough bandwidth in an optical or coaxial connection to pass a multichannel SACD track."

This guys is a moron. Do your homework and get your facts straight. Toslink easily supports 3.1Mb/s bandwidth rates and has been expanded to 125Mb/s.

Dolby Digital is usually 640Kb/s;
DTS is usually 1.5Mb/s;
Doly Digital Plus 1.7Mb/s;
(all encoded using a lossy format)

Even the new DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD (on Blu-ray and HD-DVD) audio tracks will be transmitting at 6.0Mb/s (lossy) and up to 18Mb/s lossless.

Uhhh... I think the fiber and coaxial connections will do just fine.

** Do your part -- stop the spread of misinformation **

[Jack_C8]

To play SACD's on the PS3, you need to have it hooked up to your receiver via an HDMI cable. Receivers that decode audio over HDMI are readily available, and start at around $400. But they're getting cheaper every day.

Jeez, I don't even own a PS3 and even I know that.