Comments on: Apple breaks up Palm Pre-iTunes lovefest

With the release of iTunes 8.2.1, Apple puts a stop to the Palm Pre, iTunes synchronization.

[Xenovic]

I am not anti-Apple. I think the big bite is a great company with some innovative ideas, and I think the iPhone significantly changed the face of the mobile market for the better.

But, Apple has decided to cut off its nose to spite its face on this one.

I liked using iTunes to buy my music and then sync it with my Pre. It really seemed to me that Apple was getting the best of both worlds here, they weren't able to sell me an iPhone (because AT&T doesn't operate where I live) but they are still able to make money off of me.

I say, no more!

I'm boycotting Apple until they let us use their service again. I won't buy music or videos from the iTunes library. I won't buy iPods, laptops, desktops, servers or even headphones from the company until they understand that we really were happy enough to co-exist.

Hopefully this will show them that their squabbling with rivals doesn't help their bottom line, and it hurts the consumers.

I understand the arguments that "they don't have make a huge profit margin on music sales." But the truth is: profit is profit (that's probably even a Ferengi rule of acquisition or something). They are making some money, and some moneys is always better than no moneys.

[AllenKids]

@Xenovic

While iTunes store is a significant part of Apple's whole picture.

Dealing with media companies is apparently not something Steve Jobs enjoys to do. As a matter of fact, it's getting increasingly difficult cause now due to iTMS's massive success all these content providers are really hostile against Apple fearing one day they will totally lose control over distribution terms.

Of course as consumers we shouldn't care about all that fuss, we pay our money, we deserve what we are supposed to get from it.

The thing is: you are never supposed to sync your Palm device with iTunes! Not according to Apple.

You bought the Pre either knowing Apple would most likely shut the loophole sometime soon or under the false pretense your phone is officially supported by iTunes, which, is not at all Apple's fault.

If you have a problem with Apple's deeply integrated business practice, boycott as long as you wish.

It's just technically, Apple just did what it have to do to protect its business model, nothing more than that.

Do I fully support this particular move? No, because as you stated, consumers did get burnt in the process. But did Apple do something wrong or illegal? I don't think so.

[AllenKids]

@Xenovic

My iTMS related comment was just trying to state one fact: If you don't buy iDevice, Apple really don't need your nickels and dimes from the music purchase. 1, as you all ready understand, it's not very profitable actually. 2. The store almost become too big it stand in the way of Apple's product stratagy (if iTMS is half its size now, I believe the studios will be much less uptight regarding AppleTV content selection and service terms, which is the number 1 problem of AppleTV.)

[tipoo_]

Itunes is a pile of poop anyways, who would want to use it when they have the option not to?

[Mindsnapper]

Screw apple and their overpriced music store, bloated I-tunes software and overpriced computers, and the white horse they rode in on. Black is back, I love my Pre

[AppleSuxLeo]

I heard a Mac expert call iTunes "a bloated , monolithic , spreadsheet" LOL

[brynn08]

pathetic attempt to stop the PRE'S momentum...and apple fan boy idiots are lovin this....haha losers

[Tiggobittie]

Actually we are not losers. We're cool. Everyone knows it too. I'm not saying you're not cool, it's just that Apple users are really creative, interesting, and special. It's kinda the difference between a chevy and a Merc. Both get you there... but the Merc gets you there in style. BTW - mine is an 500 S-Class.

[TextMailManiac]

Nope. Palm Pre users have their finely tuned Acuras. Apple Mac users are Cadillac Cimarron drivers -- they think they're special because they have a "luxury car," but they're too dense to realize they're just driving a Chevy Cavalier that they paid 2x as much to drive.

[puterhead]

I think everyone is raging on and on about the Pre being shut out of iTunes and not thinking about all the other implications that came from what Palm did to make the Pre sync in the first place.

From what I have read here , other tech sites and after some googling for information, and please correct me if i am wrong on this as I have no access to a Pre to know if its true, that Palms programmers (ex-apple ipod programmers) created a bit of code that when connected to itunes recieves itunes polling for a ID ipod/iphone serial number and ramdomly generates a fake number to spoof the program into thinking it is an older generation ipod and opening up all the sync capabilities itunes has to offer.

Forget about the fact that they ignored completely documented ways to do this already. What i would be more concerned with is how this effects security of information in iTunes.

Using their code could anyone with a Pre sync up to anyone elses itunes? I mean does it bypass other aspects of the security in iTunes, which i have read is limited anyways? Does it let you have access to any information that is not normally auto-sync'd with iTunes? Did it provide a base for those of less than legal intent to produce a plug in auto-breaker for getting a persons private information and finacial institution information or allow for the spoofing of content purchases onto someone elses account?

i do not know the answers to these questions myself and would very much like to hear even an explaination as to exactly how it was done and why none of my questions are possible using their work around.

[darreno1]

Well I'm not surprised, after all it's Apple and as usuall they're making sure they lock their users into their hardware/software. That's ok cause Itunes is borderline tardware imo. I have an iphone 3g and use itunes for updates only. I use sharepod for moving music back and forth. Anyway I won't have to use any Apple product as of tomorrow since I'll be switching to a Pre. They can keep their crappy hardware since they seem to be programmed to die at or after the warranty is up. If you don't believe me about the crappy hardware, visit the iphone support forums you might be surprised. Right now mine is randomly shutting down and doing all sorts of crazy things. The honeymoon is over, F*ck Apple, F*ck AT&T and F*ck the iphone!

[georusking]

I own a Mac, and used to have an iPod until the volume broke. I used to use iTunes but dumped it for Songbird.

All the Mac apologists say that iTunes was solely designed to work with Apple items. This unfortunately is not entirely accurate. If this were the case, it would not be a FREE download. If it were to be exclusively an Apple related item, the only way to get it would be to buy an Apple product, and quite possibly, it would be designed to only work on Apple computers and not windows machines.

[naterandrews]

I don?t understand why people are making a big deal of this.
Everyone knows iTunes is expressly designed to sync with iPods and iPhones. Any other device that forbids the rules of the EULA will be deactivated (in due time) from the sync feature. Users should understand this too, and even though a small few will gripe about this, the limitations are generally accepted.
If Palm wanted to create an experience for Pre users, then they should funnel the R+D together to create their own app, instead of portraying Apple as some bully locking them out (of THEIR OWN software..). And for those of you above that think this is anti-competitive or monopolistic, think again. When you first launched iTunes, you are presented with FAIR and just rules for using the software. No one is forcing you to agree with them or use iTunes; and if you accept the agreement, then you shouldn?t be in for a shock.

For those of you that think your iTunes purchased music can?t be synced with the Pre, think again. Simply (and painlessly) navigate to your My Music folder, go to iTunes, and drag-n-drop the content into the appropriate Pro-Pre application, to initiate the sync. Who knew your legally purchased media was so easy to find?

[619clean]

Apple like other traditional companies wants to make it harder for others, even if it is one step at a time.

[LjasonG]

Look, Apple Software is notoriously invasive to begin with (if you use Win) and is KNOWN for not playing well with others. add to this the launching of their newest iPhone. Why would they encourage some third party? It's business, kids. Simple.

I wouldn't assume to offer advice to the tech-savvy group here, but...

Why not just load your media via USB? F**k the the middleman. Don't be so lazy.

Jusssayin'...

[LjasonG]

you ARE The Man! so ridiculously true! Cheers!

[bsmithtwz]

I thought Palm paid Apple to cut off iTunes support for the Pre to generate all this attention. Then, when more people buy a Pre, Apple will open up iTunes again with more customers buying music from them.

[ebpda9]

Gotta love it how the Apple fanboys claim that this is apple's right, but when MS sued Tom Tom for patent infringement MS was the bully, and had no right to do that, and blah blah......Can we say double standards?

[X-sync]

You know you're right. It's just like Microsoft fanboys angry at Apple for similar reasons. Oh well, sounds like there's always two sides to everything.

[motlee2]

Geez arent we all worked up. iTunes is a FREE program. You never have to buy anything from it. How dare those Apple people offer such a thing, At its core, Apple is a business, and businesses need to make money, so why would they allow other devices to use their program when the fact is, those pre users probably arent buying anything from iTunes anyway?
Anti trust? Monopoly? seriously? If you dont like iTunes or you just hate Apple, then dont download it. Seems simple enough to me

[X-sync]

I agree with you. It's funny how people can passionately hate Apple. I think that they love it almost as much as they hate it.

[georusking]

First, why in the world would you assume that a pre user would not buy from iTunes? Do you assume that because they did not buy an iPhone? Guess what, I won't buy an iPhone because ATT is overpriced and the network is terrible where I work. Here in Hawaii, half my co-workers have an iPhone and they constantly complain about how bad the network is, and as a result how bad a phone the iPhone is. OTOH, I almost never have service issues with Sprint, and the speed is fast.

BTW, you do not buy things from iTunes - that is simply a media manager and front end for the ITunes Store.

As I said above, the fact that iTunes is free undercuts the argument that it is designed to enhance the iPod experience, etc. Again, if that were truly the case, iTunes would not be available as a free download, or you would get a warning everytime you booted the program that iTunes is not compatible with non-Apple products.

[X-sync]

gerousking:
Are you telling this to me or to motlee2? If it was to me I wasn't assuming people won't buy from iTunes if they don't use an iPod or iPhone.

[X-sync]

iTunes belongs to Apple. What you get from Apple when you download it is a license to use their products and services that comes implemented into the software. I know most people don't read their terms and conditions, so I am not surprised they don't know this. We are very used to have "fair" terms by law, I suppose. iTunes doesn't belong to anyone but Apple, Inc. and the Corporation has the right to do business as they please. Naturally, they want to do it in a way they can make most profit. Allowing third party hardware to use it's program without a proper license is not profitable, of course. But don't get angry at Apple, every company does this even Palm. It just so happens that the best way to bring popularity to Palm Pre was hacking iTunes. And it did bring popularity. Thousands of people decided to buy Pre instead of iPhone. I can see how Apple saw this as a danger to them, at least long term speaking. They never have to allow hackers, so, naturally, they blocked them at the end. Do some research on the companies before you say Apple is the only business that is "evil". Microsoft, Palm, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, Linux, Mozilla, Amazon, Ebay, all companies are trying to make money. Oh and that also brings out another point; there are enough companies for you look around for what you're searching. If there's something you want or like from a company then get it. If you don't like it then don't get it.

[darreno1]

People who are switching to the Pre are doing so because they are unhappy with their iphone or AT&T. The fact that itunes worked with it was more of a convenience than anything else as there are several other pieces of software that can function the same and in many cases, better.

Undoubtedly some who are new to the smartphone market will consider the Pre's ability to work with itunes a bonus, but not the sole or even the main reason on which to base their decision. They will be trying each device before buying, I can guarantee that. And more often than not, the iphone, just by sheer word of mouth and the 'cool factor' will win by default. So IMO this latest move by Apple was just to make it harder for the competition at the expense of their user base (those for example who may have an ipod and Pre or just a Pre and want to keep itunes for music purchases). Yeah it might be seen as a shrewd business decision (based on self preservation)but it's in poor taste and was unnecessary. Will it hurt the the Pre? Hardly.

[X-sync]

I don't think they'll consider it a bonus. On the contrary I think that many people will buy it and, not only that, they will feel more prone to switch. No I think it was too risky. Apple needed to block them. What Palm can do is make a nice music player with a nice scanner that finds music on the computer, which would include all the iTunes folder. That way you can still purchase from iTunes and seamlessly synchronize your information.

[darreno1]

Even if Palm can come up with a workaround, I'd rather give my money to somebody else than Apple. They can keep their itunes and their store. For a little while the iphone was great but the 'cool factor' wore off and I now have my Pre sitting right in front of me. And so far, absolutely no regrets. Goodbye Apple!

[X-sync]

That's cool Darreno1:
So, what new store is in your mind now? I know there's tons of stores out there. Or are you planning to buy your music from a music store that is not online?

[darreno1]

Well I already have a large music collection (both mp3s and cds)so there isn't a huge rush to purchase but I'd probably give AmazonMP3 a try first of those listed here:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11297_7-6518467-2.html?tag=rb_content;rb_mtx

[DrtyDogg]

darreno1: You can already purchase from Amazon right on the Pre

[TheOldDessertRat]

I'm about to buy a Pre. Gee, I wish there was someplace besides the Apple store to buy music.

Oh, wait. There is. Try to guess if my money will go to Apple or to some one of the other guys. Come on, try to guess. And regarding Apple, it'll be a cold day in... someplace when/if I ever hand them any money -- for anything. Money talks, and bovine excrement walks.

[X-sync]

I find it funny how many people used to say things like this about Microsoft and now people are saying it to Apple. Of course, back then, the issue was computers and in this case is music and cellphones.

[AppleSuxLeo]

I make it a point to buy all my music on Amazon.
What is iTunes ? Who is Apple ?

[sjonsi1188]

Dick move, Apple, though I am in no way surprised. I'm just so sick of technological exclusiveness. I have an iPod Touch and a Palm Pre. Why can't my two devices get naked and enjoy each other?

No one cares about making the consumers' life easier and more compatible, recognizing that people will purchase and use the devices that make their lives (their uniquely individual, unbranded lives) simpler. It's not like Apple is at risk of loosing their stronghold on mobile music. In the first quarter of 08 they posted a revenue of 9.6 billion. It's shame that their "My ball, go get your own!" intentions are so blatant. Way to be difficult. Sigh. Anyhoo, off to the store to pick up a macbook pro...

[X-sync]

I've been wondering that too. The problem is that a lot of articles say that the Pre hacked iTunes and acted as an iPod. There wasn't any deals between Pre and Apple if you ask me. So, Apple just blocked them from using iTunes. I kind of consider this move less ethical than just suing Palm. But I guess Apple must have thought blocking them would be more cost efficient and I agree that it is. I sure do want to find out more about this.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Warning...the Jew Jobs is kidney shopping someone said.