Comments on: Bait and switch: Online electronics stores caught in fraud

Seven Brooklyn-based electronics retailers operating more than 40 Web sites are fined for fraudulent practices, including bait-and-switch tactics.

[umbrae]

A shame RitzCamera is not on the list. They did the same thing.

[drara07]

Same goes for HpShopping. They sold those defective Nvidia Graphics card on their laptops even though they were aware of the issue. Plus now they are not honoring a free repair to thousands of their consumers who are stuck with a dead laptop. Check out www.hplies.com , a place which has been put up by all the helpless consumers to voice their concern.

[turbineseaplane]

LOL...

This reminds me of the experience I had a couple years ago with "Broadway Photo"...

The order was cancelled after I refused (by phone) to purchase any of the dozens of "extras" that were being forced down my throat.

The guy reminded me of a timeshare salesman.

It's nice to see a small amount of justice in the world.

[mcclaren1005]

I had a similar experience with Broadway Photo. I ordered a handheld GPS unit from them. I received a phone call the next day stating that they need to talk to me about my order. When I called them back they tried to get me to buy an overpriced warranty for the thing, but I had already gone to the BBB and read about them doing this to other customers. I ended up just purchasing the item locally on sale. They also operate about 40 different companies under this same tactic. I'm happy to see they got what was coming to them.

[MMX0]

I just ordered form Bway photo and it looks like its under new management..... I purchased a Canon sd 1200 and i got it very quickly. They also seem to have a rating of over 8.0 on reseller ratings.. i had a great experience with them (will surely order again)

[zakb7]

This is a big problem when buying photo gear. Always check these two sources before buying a camera:

www.resellerratings.com
http://donwiss.com/pictures/brooklynstores/

[txstubby]

Another scam works like this

A very low price for high end photographic equipment, place the order they call you, then you find out that it's just the camera body - none of the normal accessories are included. By the time the accessories are added the cost is more than purchasing from a reputable dealer.

They tried this one on me about 6 years ago (no I didn't fall for it), the question I have is why did it take so long for any action from the authorities.

[jmfb_k7]

You can buy just the camera body, without accessories, for a lower price (than it would be if it had all the accessories) from just about any major retailer.

Not everything is a bait and switch.

[FargoUT]

Like jmfb_k7 said, this is done all the time. Camera bodies (SLRs) can be sold sans lenses, flashes, etc. This reduces the cost. Many camera owners buy lenses on their own. When I had an SLR, I had three lenses. If I were to upgrade, I wouldn't need new lenses. Just a new body.

Now, if the ad said it was the full camera with lenses, you'd have an argument. But usually, it will says (Body Only) in the header or description.

[canon40d]

jmfb_k7 and FargoUT:

When you order a body-only camera, those stores will call you back and tell you that you get the camera body only and in order to use it you need to purchase the battery for $100, the charger for $150, the neck strap for $50, the manual for $20, the software for $100, the body cap for $20 and the camera that you order is acutally a cheap made-in-china version, you need to pay another $200 to upgrade to the made-in-japan.

What if you don't want to buy any of those stuff? Well, they either cancel your order, put you on back order or send you the stuff that you didn't order, and good luck on returning that item.

Before I first got my DSLR, I had spent many hours researching, and when I ran into one of these scammers I knew right away that there was something fishy about these guys. Their prices were rediculously low and too good to be true. Just google their names and you'll find a lot of complaints about them. They don't let you go easily if you just want that $1200 Canon 5D Mark II body.

jmbf_k7 and FargoUT, time for you two to wake up. and stop being so gullible.

[eletain]

Thes companies have been pulling these scams for 30 years or more frrom their ads in the photography magazines like Popular Photography. Why did it have to wait till they had web sites for the NY state authorities to act? Has the consumer protection legislation shanged?

[c|net Reader]

If people don't complain, how would the authorities know about the problem? If people don't document their encounter well, the authorities are hard pressed to prosecute. If the authorities have limited staff and funding, it can take a long time to address a particular case; still longer to build a case. I'll grant you that in 30 years, there were likely enough complaints and was sufficient time to build a case, but are you sure nothing was done to other companies in those 30 years?

[R1one]

Ohh man.. i bought my gps a year ago from broadway ohto as well. Got an email and wanted or needed clarification over the phone before they can process the order. I denied the sales pitch and not surprising the man sound like an a...hole! Thankfully i got mine with no problem. Finally somebody is doing something abt it. Cause i know its bunch of BS

[R1one]

Ohh man.. i bought my gps a year ago from broadway photo as well. Got an email and wanted or needed clarification over the phone before they can process the order. I denied the sales pitch and not surprising the man sound like an a...hole! Thankfully i got mine with no problem. Finally somebody is doing something abt it. Cause i know its bunch of BS

[jokayhn]

A few years ago I bought my dad a really good Canon digital SLR, the best at the time. I researeched the price everywhere and ended up on Broadway Photo. Regular price was around $2500 and they were selling it for around $2100. After I hit the button to purchase I got a funny feeling. So I used resellerratings.com and started to get the idea I had gotten myself into something. I figured the high quality of the web site indicated it was a professional up front business when in fact it isn't (at least all the chatter I was running across indicated as such). The concern was that they might ship me a grey market item. A Canon but one designed for Europe. As far as what I purchased on their site I was thorough at checking it out. I didnt buy just a body. Anyway, I called them up and after some issues getting through I told them I wanted to cancel the order. I made clear thats what I was doing and I wasnt budging. Surprising, despite the warnings on the forums I didnt have much if any of a problem. I got lucky. Basically I don't buy electronics from the Internet except through Best Buy or Amazon (and I guess I should be careful about Amazon because that in some cases could be a front for some other company actually providing the merchandise). The lesson I learned was don't trust that the quality of the web site indicates its trustworthy. Im glad I had that funny feeling.

[brianbot5000]

Best Buy did the same thing to me about 8 years ago. I bought a computer online, they called to sell me on the extended warranty. I refused of course, and a couple of days later my online order was cancelled. I called to find out why, and they claimed my credit card rejected the charge. I called my credit card, and they disputed that - stating the exact amount that it was approved for, but that BB had cancelled the transaction before funds were transfered. And of course the next day, the sale ended on the item I had ordered.

[tzetter]

Same thing happened to me at Best Buy the day after Thanksgiving--ordered a great desktop bundle for a killer price only to have it cancelled for the same bogus reason after it was "no longer available" on their site. Fishy. I don't stop with them anymore. Good luck in the New Economy with tactics like that.

[CEB1970]

So, does the $765,000 settlement come anywhere close to the amount of ill gotten gains they raked in over the past 10 years or so? I doubt it. Once again: crime pays. A fair settlement would have been to take ALL of their money and bar them from ever operating in NY again.

[bgitt]

And cut off their hands and legs, pop their eyeballs and make them eat them. Scumsuckers at bestpricecameras.com wasted about 9 hours of my life over three days chasing them down to remove bait and switch sales from my credit card. Finally had to cancel the card and wait 2 weeks for a replacement. We suffer and the State of NY receives a $765,000 bribe to not prosecute the scumsuckers. Cuomo. You blow! No gonads to take these cybertheives to trial? Surrender your license to pracrice law and give the AG job to someone who's competent and unafraid to try a case against vermin like these.

[pjk0]

I agree with CEB1970 - the settlement amount is peanuts (probably less than a day's worth of revenue for these people), and the fact that many of these people are still in business certainly does send the message that "CRIME PAYS".

There is something very fishy going on here: #1, that it took so long to crack down on these scammers, when people have documented this stuff for years (the photos of all the Brooklyn shyster-operation storefronts have been around for years), and #2, why the "settlement" was so trivial. I'd say that these people have probably done more than their share of paying off law enforcement figures, among other things.

At least Madoff got 150 years.

[george_liquor]

Funny, I was just looking at prices for Pioneer plasmas, (hoping that they have miraculously dropped somehow) and found several online sellers listed with ratings of 4-5 out of 5 stars. However, when I drilled into them a bit further, I saw nearly every recent review mentioned crappy customer service, nasty bait-&-switch tactics, like selling refurbs off as new, or 'losing' merchandise that was paid for and never shipped. Not surprising, the two cheapest vendors, iBuyDigital.com and ElectroZone, were the worst offenders. It's nice to see the BBB finally intervening, but I'm guessing $765,000 is a drop in the bucket for companies who routinely defraud their customers like this.

[bermudamarlin]

Yup, I had the same thing last year with I think RitzCamera, or someone like that. The basic problem is CNET lists all the sellers and the prices that go alone with the item after their reviews. So I was looking at GPS for a motorcycle and the lowest price is at the top of the page. So what do you do? You go with the lowest price.
As I said, when you see all the company's names on the CNET site you think these guys must be legit.
Anyhow, I'm talking to Amazon after talking with these idiots, and I say, ......So listen, how come the Neanderthals over at Whatever Photo have the unit for a couple hundred cheaper? Guy just laughed and said....... dude, buy from Amazon, bestbuy, walmart or any other reputable reseller...... go with these hole in the wall guys; and you'll get messed around one way or the other.
He then said, believe me, if they're selling a unit for 500 that we have for 799, most people know damn well something ain't quite right.

[sythara]

Exactly. Standard price variation is no more than 5-10% for online purchases. Anything over that is most likely a scam... some businesses can run more efficently, less overhead, etc.

[ferricoxide]

Ok, so they're doing online what they've been doing via newsprint and magazine ads for DECADES. How is this news?

[74roadrunner]

I was a victim of this a long time ago, when I bought a camera from one of these outfits. They sent me an obviously repacked or refurbed camera. My credit card company resolve it pretty quickly after I spoke with a really hostile guy on the phone a couple of times without any luck..

. A few years ago, I attempted to order a receiver from 6th Ave Electronics online, but soon after, realized that it was missing a needed feature, so I called to cancel the order and change it to another model, one that was discontinued. The person I spoke with said that they didn't have that one in stock anymore. He looked on his PC and I was waiting for the "For this much more, I can" line, but he said he would just send me the more expensive model that was the next step up from the original one for the price I had paid for the one I had ordered online. It came a few days later, and it's been great, it's not a grey market item or a refurb, and I got it for a great price. Since then, I and some of my friends have bought items from them and all has gone well. I also had good luck with B&H over the last half dozen years.

NYC camera and electronics retailers have a bad reputation, and much of it is truly deserved, but some are decent enough.businesses.

[ikramerica--2008]

"They have all the name brands. Sorny, Magnetbox..." - Homer Simpson

[timetraveler7000]

finally these businesses get caught! they got what was coming to them.

[acousticb1-2009]

or Dealtree.com who does variety of names dealing auctions on ebay and overstock. They get NPB plus not sell stuff as described and get the money to boot

[acousticb1-2009]

The problem I see is that you get shafted by auction sites who do not realize that the company is ripping people off. Paypal is useless against rip off artist like some of these sites

[canon40d]

In the last 3 years, I have ordered over $6000 worth of photographic equipments from 2 New York and New Jersy retailers and they're are B&H and Buydig/Beach. These guys are reputable dealers, their prices are cheaper than your local brick & mortar stores but not rediculously cheap that once you look at the price you know they're all BS. You get what you order with B&H, Buydig/Beach, Adorama,, Newegg or 17th Street and never have to deal with a phone call from them (if you order a $8000 600mm f/4 L IS lens, they may contact to confirm your puchase and that's it). Just check the reviews on resellerratings.com if you're not sure.

[sythara]

B&H is not on the list.... right? (unless I missed it)

Their prices are well within 5-10% margin from big retailers like Amazon which simply means their overhead is much less due to more efficent business practices and/or cheaper labor.

[tzetter]

I've always had a great experience with B&H, highly recommended. Shopped both in their store and on the web and always legit.