Comments on: New Xbox 360 coming fall 2010?
Gaming site 1Up is fueling rumors that a brand new Xbox 360 will be released next fall in conjunction with the release of Project Natal.
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If M$ upgrades, they should offer: quiet, Blu-Ray, bigger HD, faster load times and Tivo like capabilities. This, coupled with Natal, would make the Xbox360 the "must have" media hub. Imagine being to control all your media without a remote control.
Bliss.
Note to self... ensure only my voice commands work to change channels.
But I do have the surround sound booming, so I guess it doesn't matter how loud the 360 is.
i would like to see microsoft add a better, and bigger processor in it, maybe some more memory, and a web browser, and while im at it, why not throw in a wireless N adapter built in...oh and no over heating problems!! :)
you guys have to be 24/7 gamers, or just have no life, (same thing), to be arguing about something like this.
I mean, if people like MS, they like MS, if like Sony, they like Sony, both are great technology/gaming companies. For example, Microsoft: for all of you people whose typed this review, how many of you MS dissing idiots not realized that your more than likely using Windows, made by MS, to run your browser to type it.
And for Sony dissing people, how many of you are watching TV on a Sony tv. Or calling people on a Sony Erricson, or Typing on a Sony VAIO? or taking pictures on a Sony Camera?
* Sony most likely won't come out with a new platform. Let's be real here. Odds are they have not made back all of their R&D and marketing money from the PS3. If so, it's been on the heals of the PS2, which still out sells the PS3 (sad, sad, sad).
* It's certainly debatable if Natal needs additional processing muscle to perform as desired. That or you'd have to make some tradeoffs on gameplay vs simplicity of input.
- However, it's never really been document how well the different cores are being used in either the 360 or the PS3. Could the rev really just be a library rev where they give new tools to developers to better utilize the additional cores? I could easily see that being the case; especially if most developers aren't using all the cores.
* MS would certainly be in an interesting spot if they did decide to launch a new platform - or even a hybrid platform (mostly current hardware just with a different primary controller). Consider my first point, that if Sony still hasn't made back it's money then they're certainly not sinking a ton of money into a new platform. They could. But that's very risky financial gambling we're talking about. If MS could simply rev the current platform to support the new idea, without sinking millions into new R&D (well, beyond the Natal), they'd be in a nice new position to cut into Nintendo's market.
Further consider the moves MS has been making with the marketplace. What if MS could position themselves as a console platform for casual games, similar to the Wii, BUT with all the media and online capabilities of the 360? Wouldn't that be a rather appealing multi-use platform the masses? "Hey, with our console you can watch Netflix, Youtube, keep up with friends on Facebook/Twitter AND you can play great game with the whole family (ala the Wii) or with a group of friends using your body as the controller! Live Party even lets you do all of this together if you're not in the same room."
Suddenly MS's new platform doesn't look all that unrealistic. If at least not a new marketing platform/strategy. I kind of hope they get there. This is something I could see myself getting into. This is assuming the days of hardcore games are not numbered!
The first is that Blu-Ray would immediately take off and become the new de facto standard in physical media. I'll grant, if this had happened, Sony might have sold a hundred million PS3's. But it didn't. The other bet was that gamers would demand giant, epic games with mammoth physics engines and photorealistic graphics. That subset is there, to be sure, but nobody saw the Wii coming. The PS3 often reminds me of that lawn mower Jesse James built from a Mustang 5.0 - highly capable, to be sure, but nobody needs half its capabilities, nor do they want to pay for them.
The price point is just killer. A base model 360 (Arcade) is $200. A base model PS3 (80gb) is $400. Were you to get a PS3 bundle with an extra controller, four or five games and miscellaneous accessories, you could be looking at over $800 before you're done. In a recession, that's way beyond a 'walk away' price. And as far as price cuts, I'm not sure they can do this without taking a substantial loss on the hardware, and you can't make your money back when you're giving it away hand over fist. I'm sure Sony appreciates your optimism, but I can't share it.
Ok, so you did you're math for the PS3...but for some reason $200 is all you'll spend on an xbox 360? Doubtful. If you do the math: Arcade $200 + Wireless card $99 + 60GB hard drive $90 + Extra Controller $50 + Couple Games $60 ea. = ummm like $10 less...and then if you count in the money that you will be eventually paying for bricked hardware...hmmm so what exactly is that price efficiency that you get from the xbox 360? Its all been scammed into the consumers brain by Microsoft, that they paying so much less than any ps3 owner when in reality, they aren't even getting a whole system.
You don't need any of that 360 stuff you rattled off if you just want to play a game. You don't need a wireless card, or an extra controller, or even a hard drive. Your cost is $200 plus games. Do you have to spend the $800 plus I mentioned for the PS3 to play a game? No. But your cost will be...wait for it...$400 plus games. And trying to argue that hardware failure somehow factors into cost of ownership is moot when there's now a retroactive three year warranty against RRoD. Additionally, what exactly do you consider a "whole system" to be?
I don't own either console, by the way - I'm just an intrigued, disinterested observer who knows what he would and wouldn't shell out for a gaming machine, and who is wryly amused by the amount of vitriol that inevitably gets spewed back and forth in console debates.An interesting space, indeed.
No one thought that Blu-ray "would immediately take off and become the new de facto standard in physical media." Nor did Sony promote it that way. Blu-ray launched in the U.S. in 2006, and most people still don't own an HDTV now. DVD and VHS didn't immediately take off and become the new de facto standard in physical media, either, and they didn't require special, significantly more expensive displays to take advantage of them. It was always going to be a gradual thing, if it occurred at all for Blu-ray.
My thrust in making that comment was simply that, in my opinion, I think Sony expected more spoils after their victory in the format war (HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray). They spent millions of dollars burying HD-DVD, and thought that people would settle down and buy Blu-Ray stuff now that they didn't have to throw the dice on one format or the other. That hasn't happened...yet. Now, do I think Sony was delusional enough to believe everyone with a DVD player was going to burn it ceremonially on their way to buy a BD player? No - but I think there was some expectation that videophiles and people beginning collections from scratch would port over to Blu-Ray fairly quickly. The rise of upconverting DVD players was a groin shot to that hope, in my estimation.
ROTFL!
The PS2 was one of the most unreliable/worst pieces of equipment ever made. The PS2's were breaking down all the time when they were luanched. Fo ryou to come here and even try and pretend that somehow, the PS2's were a paragon of reliability and should be held up as the shinning beacon on how relaible equipment is made, is the biggest joke I ever heard!
I do feel back for my XBox friends, like killa08 says. Having to upgrade to Elite. Getting boned on the HDDVD add-on. The constant RRODs. Paying for XBox Gold. It would have cost them less to get the PS3, which they said they prefer but "can't" afford.
Xbox is TERRIBLE hardware. Plain and simple.
As far as a new Xbox goes. Well, we're due for one. It'll be five years by the end of 2010 since the 360 came out and gaming consoles usually come around every five years. Xbox to the 360 was only about four years (yeah, they rushed it, but their gamble paid off).
It is smart for Microsoft to build a newer machine that would still play the older 360 games. That way, gamers would buy the new system and sell their old ones to others and those people would then go out to buy games. Companies make their money through software, not systems ... so the more systems they have out there ... the more people will buy software.
I like my 360, especially after they updated the software to the new GUI. I like how it connects with my computer easily too. This could also be the last generation of consoles. Once higher-speed broadband internet becomes the standard, low monthly fees for any game you want to play will be the norm... just log in and play.
Like mathcreative said, Sony may have won the disc format war, but it did so at a cost. Blu-Ray is just now starting to sell a little better, but people are not going to grow as big of collection with Blu-Ray like they did with regular DVD. They are still too expensive and some upscaled DVD players make regular DVD look fine on a hi-def screen for many people. Downloading movies (for sale or rental) is going to be the norm. I wish Sony cared more about their gamers than trying to get a monopoly on hi-def.
I doubt Microsoft is gonna come out with a complete new system next year, but I might consider an upgrade to the one I already have.
Another thing that people forget when they talk about bluray is that it is not only a dvd player, it processes faster and can read larger discs. Which means that game producers can create games that are much more detailed and in-depth. Now I can't rant on about the PS3 being perfect because I have only had one problem with my elite and it was just overheating while the laser on my PS3 recently burnt out and it cost $80 at my local Best Buy to repair the system.
A steering wheel is a steering wheel. If NATAL can 'visualize your motions as a steering wheel, it only needs to forward the controller attributes of the MS XBOX Steering Wheel to the xbox - THUS, I do not expect the requirement of a new xbox.
Got It?
(db)
The only upgrades the 360 would need for Natal would be 45 nano chips, smaller cooler chips for the GPU,CPU, motherboards, combining the GPU/CPU into one chip, a redesign of the 360 to make it the 360 "slim" (like the PS2 kept doing), together with SKU's incorporating Natal etc.
The idea of upgrading Natal 360 with a faster CPU, more powerful GPU, more RAM all at extra costs, is the most stupid idea I ever heard. The 360 is not a PC.
Again, this all makes sense, "
No it doesn't make much sense. And here's why:
# 1. Increasing 360 specs(GPU/CPU/RAM etc) could put MS right back in the red again. Why would they take such a bone-headed business decision to lose even more money after already losing over $6 billion on the XBOX business in the last 8 years alone?
# 2. The ony people who care about higher specs are the "hardcore" gamers. The thing is, the 360 already owns the hardcore gamers. Microsoft isn't so much trying to attract the hardcore, they have them in their back pocket. They are all about attracting new audiences. Upgraded hardware specs bundled with Natal at a HIGHER price is only going to be counterproductive to their strategy of trying to broaden their userbase
# 3. Developers could need to develop to 2 versions of games. One version for the old 360 and another version for the new, higher spec, uneccesarily increasing their development costs, at a time when most games developers are operating in the red.
#4. Splintering the 360 user base for no good reason. People buy consoles instead of PC's precisely because they don't want the same console to keep getting memory/GPU/CPU upgrades and what not every 2 years, and leaving early adopters in the sand.
# 5. Natal is aimed at the mass marktet/non-gamer market. The underpowered Wii has already proved that them non-gamers dont give two hoots about gee whiz grpagics.
It's already been proved that the mass market will simply NOT buy any console that is expensively priced(the PS3 says hello).
# 6. Possible loss of of games sales as the by then 50 million 360 existing user base get annoyed at getting gimped vserions of new games, while the new new more powerful 360 gets the better versions of games.
# 7. A bundled Natal will alreaday add in extra costs of maybe $100 to the 360 price, which could take it above the mass market prices, and make it harder to sell to the masses alreday, why add in even more costs by increasing the specs for GPU/CPU/RAM again in 2010?
For those who are comparing this to Nintendo's launch of the more powerful DSi, I have this to say:
1) The DS is market leader, the success of the DSi was pretty much guaranteed.
2) A household can easily have several handhelds, but it's hard to convince oneself to buy an upgraded 360 when there's already a 360 in the house.
3) The DSi is expensive, but compared to an upgraded 360 for 299$ it's still affordable for every type of gamer.
DS -> DS Lite, PSP 1000 -> PSP 2000, PSP 2000 -> PSP 3000, DS Lite -> DSi all saw tangible sales boosts despite no hardware improvements for all of those transitions except to the DSi, so why can't Microsoft simply introduce a 360 "slim" with exactly the same specs as the 360 (except for inculudng Natal and smaller chips, slimer package), and sell them by the bucketload at mass market prices?
I think the 360 has plenty of horsepower to handle the calculations for facial and voice recognition already. You also need to remember that they will have a very uphill battle if they ONLY way to use the Natal is to also buy a new console. If they do that they might as well just make the Natal a stand-alone console and break the tie to the 360 altogether. Same battle.
Bluray and SSD are too damn expensive, not cost effective, and can only lead Microsoft to even more losses on the 360 if they have to keep prices down in order to sell 360's. Any exec at Microsoft that decides to bring such a bluray/SSD 360 device to the market next year, and cost shaeerholders even more money, on top of the over $6 billion the XBOX people have alrready lost, should be fired on the spot.
The original XBOX was racking up huge losses for Microsoft with no hope of ever being profitable. By contrsat, the 360 has been profitable for the past 2 fiscal years.Tthere is a a big difference.
@ d--keller :"Why is everyone so excited about Natal"
Because it's the most exciting technology to have hit video gaming in the past 20 years, if not ever.
@ d--keller :"Funny, it's the same people that tear the Wii apart for all the garbage games that are so excited."
Because the Wii is the home of shovelware, while the 360 has more AAA games than any other current gen console by far. The Wii was attacked for having too many garbage games, often with horrible graphics.
Have you looked at the system exclusives for Xbox 360?? The biggest portion of them are shovelware...only a few can truly be called AAA games. I mean honestly, you have Halo, Gears, and well, I've heard a couple people liked Fable...Its stupid to say that xbox 360 has the best line up or the most exclusives because its simply not true. It all depends on what you like to play, and lately the 360 has been really slacking with exclusives and especially with any good ones worth playing.
What games are you looking forward to for Natal Captain Kwasiowusu?
Halo takes no kind of strategy to play a five year old could play just as well as a 30 year old vet.
Gears? Yeah you would have to say Gears since Gears 2 blew harder than a hungry hooker on thanksgiving.
Only exclusives worth mention would be probably be Fable and Mass effect and even then they're easily sacrificed for the better line up of PS3 exclusives.
As for the PS2 being unreliable - come on - this was last generation's best seller by a wide margin. Let's not make things up. The 360 will historically be known as the most unreliable of all consoles thanks to the RROD and other issues, but thankfully MS has these problems remedied.
As for noise, my PS3 is quieter than my PC by a wide margin. If yours is noisy, try blowing out the fan with compressed air.
And the PS2 was still the most unreliable of the 3 consoles at the time(XBOX, Gamecube, PS2), by far. The fact that it sold more doesn't change the fact that the PS2 had a very high failure rate.
Well heck MS did play catch up and match Sony's policy. Alas the point isn't moot since Microsoft forgot to do the same with the Xbox and burned me there while Sony has proven it's support for the PS2 which is still the #1 console.
Once bitten twice shy. I trust MS to pull support like they do for other products. Only Sony has proven they will do the job in this department.
However I think that IF it is true that MS will be making an incremental upgrade to their system it would be very foolish. Sega has been down that path and killed themselves. That being the extreme, the precedence is still there. Folks won't want to spend another X amount of dollars on a tech that will be shortly outdone by MS themselves only a couple years later. It would alienate thier customers which they also have set a precednce for with their Windows iterations.
If Natal needs new hardware to support it sufficiently then they need a complete new system. If they'd simply like to offer a diff sku of the 360 which is more reliable/prettier/quieter/built in HD.. etc.. go for it.. But an incremental upgrade and slapping a new pricetag and the 360 label on the box would be a big big mistake... I wouldn't put it past Microsoft however.
- by sav1981 June 15, 2009 2:48 PM PDT
- I think that Project Natal is a fad just like the Wii is a fad. Both are innovative in their own ways but once the novity wears off they will be nothing more than dust collectors. Nothing beats accurate control of one's favorite games like a gamepad.
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- by play7 June 17, 2009 2:42 AM PDT
- fad? Oh really? Ok say how many units wii have been sold? Fad hardly........ so wahts your point then? Its not a fad its fact people buy the Wii because they like it......... Oh Well :/ Nice try
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