Comments on: The future 360: Project Natal takes shot at Wii

After a bunch of (mostly) expected games, Microsoft's E3 press conference finally revealed something of greater interest and scope: Project Natal, the code-name for their well-rumored motion-sensing bar.

[McDaygo]

Cool. Beans.

[Haroon_Aslam]

For me the biggest bomb shell was Metal Gear Solid. I think its a massive back stab at all the Metal Gear Solid fans that are surely sitting on a PS3. Kojima made a disloyal yet profitable move to move the franchise to Microsoft, unacceptable. Especially if this is a Microsoft exclusive.

[Raziel66]

How is it a backstab to release a game on more than one system? Fanboys need to get over themselves.

E3 is all about listening to what is said and what isn't said. In this case, you'd be well advised to note that Kojima said nothing about this Metal Gear game being exclusive or a timed exclusive. He only said it was in development. You should also note that the Kojima website is counting down to the Sony press conference.

You are the one stabbing Kojima in the back while calling yourself a fan. For shame.

[SidedPanic]

It is in fact exclusive. In the press conference it was mentioned that All the games mentioned from the epic arcade title onwards were exclusive to 360. MGS came after the epic announcement.

[DigitalAngelic]

@SidedPanic:

Now, see, I thought I heard something like that... I'm hoping it really is exclusive. MGS on 360 was a nice move.

[JoeD1979]

It showed a lot of experiences on Natal sitting down. They had the game show, and watching movies, as well as the racing game where you sit and drive. Sitting on a couch is ALREADY in Microsoft's equation. My only problem with Natal, is that it is still a codename and they mentioned they don't have to create a new console to create a new way to play. This means 2 things to me, which could be horribly wrong.

1. It is not coming out for a LONG time. I'm thinking late 2010 at the earliest, but more likely 2011.

2. It will be expensive. I'm thinking $149-199 range, but could be more.

[cowatson]

Already announced at 199, steal for what it does.

[slapppy]

Goodbye Wii, goodbye Sony. Microsoft will win, and has the unlimited funding to do this no matter how long it takes and no matter how much billions are wasted. Congratulation Microsoft. 2009 will be the year you win it all.

[cubedramirez]

Quite honestly the dumbest comment on the website

With the current lead in the console war, Microsoft and Sony have lost, go cry harder somewhere and deal with it.
This system will require people to BUY it, ONTOP of their console, already a disadvantage compared to the wii. What about titles that require more then jumping around, are you going to hold a controller that requires both hands to hold it, while jumping around? Or does this mean the customer has to buy yet ANOTHER item.

Causal folks want ease and affordability; those into gaming want games, games and more games. If you're a "true" gamer you already have a wii and another system, if you're casual you only have a wii and nothing is going to change that anytime soon.

[cowatson]

@cubedramirez,

True, casual gamers will perhaps not want this based on price points, but then again, they may like the idea of Netflix, Twitter, Facebook, streaming 1080p (now we know why Microsoft did not waste time and money in Bluray after HDD failed), Last.fm and games people actually like to play (see: console attach rates).

You argument about ease of use kind of contradicts the Wii...get out of the 3-4 games developed by Nintendo, and you have a bunch of games that really aren't that good, not to mention you can play almost any Wii game sitting on the couch.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ cubedramirez :"With the current lead in the console war, Microsoft and Sony have lost, go cry harder somewhere and deal with it. "

With the current collapse in Wii weekly/monthly sales in both Japan and the US, and with another at least 6 years more of PS3 sales to go (going by the PS2's sales longevity), and the PS3 still selling for a very high $400, and most PS3 sales yet to come when it hits $300/$250, nothing's been won or lost yet.
The Wii is like a marathoner that runs the first 400 meters of a marathon like he's running a 400 meter race. It's running out of steam right now.

@ cubedramirez :"This system will require people to BUY it, ONTOP of their console, already a disadvantage compared to the wii"

If I understood Don Mattrck corrrectly, new 360 consoles will come with Napal, after Napal is launched. At the very least, Microsoft can do a 360 bundle with Napal, even if it doesn't come as standard or bundle it with games that use that technology, at only a small premium for the game's basic price. There are plenty of ways to introduce Nepal into people's homes, without making them buy it seperately.

@ cubedramirez :"What about titles that require more then jumping around, are you going to hold a controller that requires both hands to hold it, while jumping around?"

You don't get it. You don't need no controller. If you watched Microsoft's presentation, all the people needed to do was jump around, or move their hands like they were driving a car, and viola!,Nepal had them driving the car, or playing soccer or whatever

@ cubedramirez :"Causal folks want ease and affordability;"

That is why they will be buying the 360 Arcade, which after all, is $50 cheaper than the Wii, and comes with 5 free games on top of that. The Wii is overpriced for what is basically a Gamecube technology with a wiimote..

@ cubedramirez :" those into gaming want games, games and more games"

The 360 does have the best AAA games line up of this generation. That is not even an issue.

@ cubedramirez :" if you're casual you only have a wii and nothing is going to change that anytime soon. "

Dream on.
The PS2 has sold 45 milion in the US alone, and still sold 173,000 last month. A big chunk of PS2 gamers are casual gamers.. The Wii is yet to sell even 20 million. I'd say there are more casual gamers on the PS2 than the Wii today. So your assertion that "if you're casual you only have a wii " is in fact wrong!

[roninpenguin]

@cubedramirez I'm a serious gamer and I do not own a Wii. There have not been any games on that system that I would purchase one for. The only games that would play are "Social" games that I can just go over to my friends house and play with a group of people.

My favorite brand of game is FPS which I have yet to see Wii come out with a good exclusive title. Now my Son has a Wii up at his mom's place because he can play the games with his 8 year old sister, same with my friend so that their children (5 and 9 years old respectively) can play, but when they go to bed our X-Boxes come out and we play some Gears.

[slapppy]

@cubedramirez

"Quite honestly the dumbest comment on the website "

Sorry to ruffle your feathers. Honestly, your much loved Wii is not even close to 30 million Xbox sold. That number is about to skyrocket. The Wii looks to have nothing compelling to compete with the Xbox.

How is that the dumbest comment on the website ever? Like I said goodbye Wii. MS wins.

[SFD_Love]

What a joke if you owned a wii you would know how many hundreds of dollars it costs to buy the extra controllers,wheels,lanyards,fit,and many other accessories. From someone who has all three systems, stop getting defensive over your wii and be honest.

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[cpark13]

@ slappy:

"Sorry to ruffle your feathers. Honestly, your much loved Wii is not even close to 30 million Xbox sold. That number is about to skyrocket. The Wii looks to have nothing compelling to compete with the Xbox."

where in the world are you pulling your numbers from? (besides somewhere that the sun doesnt shine)

for the sake of disclosure... i hate the wii. i bought my son one when they were first released, and its been sitting and collecting dust since immediately after that xmas. however, its impossible to argue numbers. the wii has sold 50 million globally... with 23 million in the united states alone. (sources: check wikipedia, joystiq, vgchartz, etc). the 360 on the other hand, has fallen embarrassingly flat everywhere except the us and uk.... moving a grand total worldwide of 30 million. last time i checked, that was 20 million fewer than nintendo.

as well, the 360 is still outsold weekly by the wii.

personally, i prefer the playstation or 360. i just recently gave the 360 another try after swearing it off after going through 11 after the launch. microsoft almost ruined it for me. but, i own all 3. each has its niche.

again though... you cant argue numbers. the wii is trouncing them all right now (sadly). i do hope that changes, as i dont like even the idea of the wii. when i game, i want to kick back and relax after a long day... not dance around my living room like a moron. (hence

[luisama5]

after 6 years, microsoft finally copy the EyeToy... better late than nothing at all, i guess

[McDaygo]

Let's hope that's not entirely the case. In all honesty this looks a tad more promising you have to admit.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ luisama5 :"after 6 years, microsoft finally copy the EyeToy"

Calling Nepal an "EyeToy", is like calling the Space Shuttle, a helicopter.
You just saw awesomeness, and you are still thinking stone age?

[Kendokill]

@Kwasiosusu:

Would you pay upwards of $200 to paint on your living room tv? This seems like a novelty, and will leave many dissapointed like the Wii did, IMO. I think the technology is great and all, but I can't see jumping around my living room with a bunch of dorky friends asking for high fives after I painted a crappy picture of an elephant. It seems cheap and cheesy. I'd hate to play a racing simulation game on something like this as it wouldn't be very precise. Only Mario Kart type racing games would do, and the fun on such a game doesn't last very long.

Everything depends on the interface IMO. Maybe motion controlled web browsing and menu system with a nice looking interface would be really cool.

[Kwasiowusu]

:" It's compelling stuff, but every part of Natal still seems to be geared to people standing up to play. At some point, sitting on a couch should also be in Microsoft's equation"

Did you even watch Microsoft's presentation at all?
Natal was shown being used to control the menus for watching movies(sitting down), as well as controlling the racing game where the familly were sitting down as they played it.
You are creating a "problem" that has already been taken care of.

:"While the wide-open excitement of the initiative was refreshing, the fact that Natal has no official name, price or release date was disappointing."

You are disappointed there is no official name?
I am not. We will have a name when it's ready to be released. Naming something doesn't take 10 years to do does it?
As for officoal date, heck even Halo Reach wasn't given an offical date yet. Again, it wil get a date at the appropriate time, which sould be come time in 2010, which would be pretty good for such a revolutionary, game changing technology.

: Microsoft is a latecomer to this party, "

There is nothing out there that even comes close to how advanced Projec Natal is. Nothing I have ever seen is even close to the demo that Peter molyneaux showed. This is nomere Wiimote. This makes the wiimote loook like something from the stone age.
Microsoft is not a latecomer. microsoft is the pioneeer in a whole new revolutionary way of interacting with your computer/console/TV.

:"Accuracy, however, remains a big question mark"

Don't knock it when you haven't even tried it. Looked super advanced and very accurate from all the demos I saw.

[cowatson]

Keep in mind this is CNET; have they ever written anything about Microsoft that didn't have a negative slant.

"Accuracy, however, remains a big question mark" could have been "The accuracy of the system during the demos was compelling and we look forward to trying the hands on demo later in the week"

Media biased at its finest..no such thing as reporting anymore, just blogitors.

[Zoobie]

Be careful about accepting the demo at face value. This is a product with no release date--but MS felt they needed to show it now. They'd be absolute fools if they demoed something that didn't look fantastic because a bad demo could have killed this before it was even commercialized. They might be on to something, or they might not. I'm going to withold judgment (good or bad) until real reviewers get to try it, and actual games are developed for it.

Whatever your opinion of Wii, it wasn't the Wii-mote that sold it, it was Wii Sports, and the balance board succeeded because of Wii Fit. If Natal comes out for $199 and doesn't have an awesome game/application, it won't survive.

[ssjwiggy]

Gee, SOMEBODY'S a fanboy.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ Zoobie :"This is a product with no release date--but MS felt they needed to show it now."

Nintendo did a similar thing with the Wii.. They showed it long before the wii even came out. Apple did the same thing with the iPhone too. It's kinda like normal for all new products to be demoed before they are launched.

:"Whatever your opinion of Wii, it wasn't the Wii-mote that sold it, it was Wii Sports, and the balance board succeeded because of Wii Fit"

True.
And I am sure Microsoft knows that.That is why Napal is not coming out this year, just so they can get all them great games that exploit that technology ready, before they launch it next year.

:". If Natal comes out for $199 and doesn't have an awesome game/application, it won't survive"

It's not coming out at $199. That would make it the same price as the 360 Arcade. Not gonna happen. Plus if I am understanding what Don Mattrick said correctly, it's gonna come in some bundle with new 360's.

[MS_KoolAid]

uh...guys...this is Microsoft we're talkin about right? What operating system are most of you using right now? Let me ask you one question...

If Ford produced a car that used Windows as the controlling Operating System would you buy that car and use it as a daily commuter? no...you wouldn't. why? because you know that the MS marketing team is better than the devteam.

don't drink the koolaid...those of us who have worked on MS products for years know for a fact that the video you saw above is NOT what you should expect to experience when the product comes to market...maybe eventually...

[szeck87]

How will this work for shooting games? Imitate shooting a gun with your fingers? Also walking around, you'll need some sort of joystick to do that unless you walk in place.

[roninpenguin]

I've been thinking the same thing. Maybe a controller attachment like the Wii has that you can put your standard controller on to do things like toggle maps, change weapons. This would also help in accuracy of the weapons (I just don't see sighting down your hands too accurate, the way you think your hands are pointed and the way the sensor see is could just be to varied).

You could swivel your hips while keeping your shoulders square to initiate turns or twists, and step or run in place for movement. I don't know for sure but I'm sure they will come up with something. I'm just looking forward to being able to use my own marksmanship abilities in a game. :D

[ShinsenMX5]

You people obviously haven't watched the complete announcement or the demo. What makes the Natal so revolutionary is its ability to react to the environment. This includes motion, speech, and 3-D movement. It doesn't require any additional controller, so there will never be a need for a Natal Motion Plus Adapter. Also, waiting to release the Natal until its ready will prevent the need to ever have one. Take that Wii Accessories.

Check out the Demo here, then post again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH_gDreIdcM

[szeck87]

I watched the whole thing yes. The demos that were shown were for games/activities that don't require walking around, so I'm curious on how that will work with games like Call of Duty, playing online requires you to run around with guns. Yes it would be able to sense you walking around, but no one has enough room in their game space to walk/run around large environments.

[illegallydead]

Um, perhaps one of us missed something, but did this ever say that this would be the ONLY way to interact with you xBox? I mean ya, an FPS is obviously bad for Natal. Even a 1080p camera plus other sensors could not in any way do a good enough job of calculating where you are aiming, unless there were at the minimum of 2 separate sensor batteries. I am think that natal will be used as an accessory. Yes, a gam-changing accessory, and one that developers will want to work with for the cool factor, but I really don't see it ever completely supplanting standard controllers (especially if it is ever meant to run on a standard xBox 360...)

[alannuttall]

maybe a gun will be introduced. classic idea but it works. maybe theyll expand on it and have less fiddly buttons on it, if any.

[ahhum]

oh COME ON!
you can't really expect to just walk in place and aim down imaginary sights in a FPS, the controller is an icon and the base of Microsoft's and all other system's video game interface.
To expect project natal to completely replace the controller is like replacing your car engine for willpower, it'll get you nowhere fast. Natal is an addition to the already amazing gameplay of Xbox, its just going to expand the world of options for Xbox and Xbox customers.
Gimmick games will now move to Xbox and Party games will become more prevalent, but sometimes that's what people need!

I live in an apartment with 2 other people, there's often on an average night between 4 and 8 people here, it's no fun to watch two people play Halo 3 online or two people play Co-op on Call of Duty: World at War and the Wii gimmick games are actually fun when there's a lot of people.
To have more interactive and remote-less games would make a world of difference. especially with the frame of my TV cracked by a high velocity Wii-mote.

I will admit that the Nintendo Wii Wii-mote and nunchuck have the perfect controller setup for a FPS but with its lack of high definition and realism its not a practical choice for someone who enjoys games like Call of Duty especially online gameplay. just reiterating the fact that wii has a terrible "wii speak" addition. online gameplay just isn't fun without people to talk to or people to get mad at you for "owning" them.

This makes xbox and Playstation more practical for FPS but to have Natal solely in use for FPS..... You've gotta be kidding me. when I have to buy my "xbox treadmill" and run in place for hours on end with my invisible gun hoping to shoot people who are foolishly doing the same is when i've given up on the world.

[Zoobie]

What happened to all the Xbox fanboys who used to say, "I hate the concept of Wii... Nintendo is ruining the gaming industry... You can keep your goofy Wii Wands, but I will always prefer a solid, traditional controller for my gaming enjoyment..."?

All of a sudden, motion-based gaming is the future of gaming, and we should all bow down to the awesomeness that is MS.

[roninpenguin]

I'm an X-Box fan and I never hated on the Wii for its concept. I actually loved the concept, I just didn't care for most of its application outside of Social games. If the Wii had come out with at least a couple of "Must Have" game I would probably have picked one up, but honestly it never did in my opinion.

The same holds true with Project Natal. So far I haven't seen anything that would make me run out and get it except the fighting game (ohhh how I would love to pit my personal reflexes against some of my couch potato friends). I would prefer to be holding a steering wheel control for a racing game, so I can have the feedback, I don't think I would like sports games without having the feed back of a real basketball, baseball, etc. so to me it will be how does it respond in FPS and other first person perspective games.

[ArsFragica]

This is gonna be betetr than the Wii & less expensive.

[xStatiCa]

Did you see the latency when the user was raising their hands up and down alternating from left to right. The screen was showing the left hand up when the left was already down. Latency will be a killer and cause this to just be another wii-like not very precise controller that is not very useful for accurate and quick movements.

[InuHanyou1701]

The "Natal" camera looks very interested and I'll be watching it closely but they haven't sold me on it quite yet. I like the ideas that they've presented but they haven't touched on the genres that interest me personally. It would be interesting to see how they can adapt first person shooters to this, if they can at all. Though this makes Real Time Strategy games a little easier to deal with on consoles now since you can essentially use your hand as a mouse now. =)

[clsmithj]

Wii has been demolished.

Microsoft keeps getting better and better with the 360 features. I'm so glad I bought a 360.

[EnglishGuy69]

I am not quite sure why the 360 and Wii are either/or. I have both and love both for different reasons. Adding Netflix to the 360 made me very, very happy. Adding Facebook, Twitter and Last.fm is great - although not game changing for me. Natal is way, way cool. And if Nintendo come out with something even cooler - even better. Now the PS3 on the other hand, that blows big time ;-) Only joking.

[alannuttall]

i dont know what theyre doing in e3 because their input hasnt happened yet but theyre gunna need something pretty sweet to top microsoft. ps3 was better than the 360 at the start in my opinion but now it does suck. im sorry ps3 fanboys! please dont hurt me!

[Arthur Belle Dent]

The first webcam I bought years ago (10yrs? Webcamnow was popular as was Camarades) from Logitech came with some games like popping balloons, drumming and balancing balloons using your bare hands while looking at the overlayed game over your image.

This looks exactly the same except instead of seeing your image, you are seeing the outline of the player like in the Wii boxing game..

The more things change.....

On a similar note, I hear that GM is looking into this new coal powered technology everybody has been talking about.

[Jabba922]

it seems like some of you are missing the point... i see people talking about how will they use guns and stuff. the point isnt for the xbox to go just to this motion sensing. use the eye toy for example, you didnt just use the eye toy, you also played other games with the normal controller. this Natal project isnt going to be the only thing the xbox is used for.

[ShinsenMX5]

Over all I'm very excited. The whole reason I disliked the Wii from the start was the amount of accessories you need to by to enjoy the experience. Sure you start out at $250, but to have two players you need an additional $60 in controllers. Then to "enhance" the experience you need a wheel or the Wii Motion Plus, which just makes the Wii-mote respond like it should have at its inception. Then, to complete the experience you need the balance board. I like the concept of being physically engaed; I always have, ever since Nintendo's Power Pad and Sega's Activator. However, with the Wii experience the list I just created of the system, one additional controller (set), a Motion Plus, and the Wii Fit Balance Board, the cost is nearly $430, that's more than the XBox Elite and PS3 core system each with 2 games included, and you still haven't included a 3rd party title, (I'd recommend Rayman's Raving Rabbids to take the price to an even $450).

What Microsoft is doing is genius; They've made the ultimate multimedia experience, by incorporating all forms entertainment. With Streaming 1080p, who needs BluRay? With streaming TV and music on demand, who needs cable? We can now get what we want through the internet, without cable, without a computer. It will only be a matter of time, before TV shows migrate to the internet. TVs will not only be the portal through which we are entertained, it will be our portal to friends, family, and the world at large. XBox and Micro soft is trying to make that happen through the integration of Facebook and Twitter, and streamlining Netflix will drive even more subscribers.

If you doubt the idea of being cable free, what about cable that costs $100 a month vs. $50 a year for XBox live and $15 a month for Netflix. You can get internet by itself for around $30 a month or less. That totaled, around $590 a year (Live, Netflix, and the ISP of your choice), is less than half the cost of a year's worth of cable w/ HD.

Microsoft's XBox 360 is where it's at, or if nothing else, where it will be.

[MellowVibez]

Two things to remember:

1. Notice that this is still "PROJECT NATAL". It's not even got a retail name yet (confirmed one at least) so even IF you see some lag, which I personally didn't, it's very likely that MSFT will hear you and fix it by launch.

2. I'm pretty sure that as Don mentioned the standard in-your-hand controller will be available and compatible with games for people who want to use them. Sure there will be games tailored FOR Natal, but I don't think it is meant to completely get rid of the controller. So if you don't fancy or foresee and FPS using Natal, you may be on to something. Doesn't discount anything from this device though. To compare it to a Wii mote is silly. It's like comparing the Iphone's touch screen to a first gen touch screen. That's not to bash on Nintendo, they did something novel, but this is the next generation of that. novel idea, not copying it. The Iphone made an awesome multi point touch screen, is that to say they copied all other touch screen prior to it?

[alannuttall]

agreed

[ahhum]

thank you sir ^_^

[hagelt18]

I can't stand 99% of the comments on this product though. This current generation of gaming is one of the worst ever. All you people do get into little poo flinging fits over what system is better than the other. Its not like you helped make the system or any of the games so why do you care what other people think? Pride alone is a vice but then to have unfounded pride is complete stupidity. Buy a system, enjoy the games you get, and move on with your life. There are so many wonderful systems out there with a lot of great games, if you really think you are a "hardcore" gamer then you should be open to as much as you can.

...to comment on the video I thought this was pretty neat.

[sethraaa]

Try to think of it less like 'poo flinging' and more like brewing public opinion over competitive features. Pride? Fans are enthusiastic yes, even.. fanatical. You're on the right track with the 'many wonderful systems' and 'a lot of great games' for sure. We as gamers would be a lot worse off without all the options, and so would the industry. It amuses me as well that people declare winners and losers, here is the deal: companies that profit by making excellent products we love are winners. Seems to me we have three big winners in the console camps. Here is to looking forward to more excellent products!

The Natal project is very exciting, I think it is safe to say a Lot of people are looking forward to more reviews and leaked comments from the hands-on-experience the developer kits will be providing. I'm a big FirstPersonShooter player as well, and I don't really see those two coming together in the way we now consider the games to be played. To be clear: there are a lot of very fast button pushing combinations, and many users adjust their speed settings to be highly responsive. This might be in excess of what the human body can perform, or would want to perform (I'm only walking in place so long, period). Thankfully there is probably room in the market for both types of games (controller play & body control) to be successful and thoroughly enjoyed.

Thanks for the time

[sachinafc2005]

asfasdfs

[kylebuttermore]

what is on top of the xbox in that video? where the hard drive goes.