Comments on: Amazon's big-screen Kindle DX makes its debut

The e-commerce giant unveils its new, larger-screen Kindle e-reader at a press conference in New York.

[earth79]

I'm probably gonna start saving up so next year when I go off to college I'll have one of these things already.

[dave_p_1]

Save up some more money and get a touch screen computer. Without the ability to make notes on a textbook, you will not find it that useful. A much better device would be a MotionComputing or Fujitsu slate or a standard convertible tablet.

About the only thing this is good for is newspapers and magazines - ad supported e-ink. If my local newspaper wants to give me one of these in return for a two year subscription, I'd consider it.

[happyguy77]

dave_p_1, doesn't it already support Bookmarks and Annotations? That's the most I ever do with my textbooks...actually I don't even write in them, it's easier to sell them off at the end of the semester that way ;)

[MrZook]

agreed hapyguy. i have a tablet, and love it for writing stuff. but the screen on the kindle is much better suited for reading for extended periods. wish they had kindles when i was in college.

maybe textbooks will cost less than $120 now.

[ccmike72]

Zook;
I would wager that they would be less. I purchased a digital copy of a text book a few years back. the hardback sold for aroun 100 and i go the digital version for about 60 if i remember correctly

[Renegade Knight]

@happyguy77

Ever cross index a text? Color highlights where the colors have meaning? Book Tabs for quick referenc (Book marks could replace this). Or simply correct an error in a formula or in the text?

The sheer number of ways we can organize information with our own two hands is amazing. Before we can fully go electronic we need this ability. My organization is trying ot go to electornic reveiw of plans. But if i can't sketch an idea on the electornic plans or make annotation and such it's so very limited.

That's without covering the issues with DRM and the data.

[happyguy77]

@Renegade Knight: Nope, don't do any of that stuff (well, aside from folding pages for bookmarking). My point was that dave_p_1 assumes everyone writes a million things in their textbooks when in fact that's not true.

But I agree, the Kindle won't be for everyone, esp. if you want to write/highlight/scribble/draw all over your pages. Maybe wait for the next version ;)

[jasonaorr]

Legal pads + pens = $6

They will last you a whole semester.

[AListener]

Despite what's been said, all Kindle units do highlighting, annotations, and bookmarks

The Kindle 2 highlights across pages. If you do that with Amazon-purchased books, they back up the highlighting and annotating along with the book (if you want) so you can re-download them together if needed later at no cost.

Also, if you highlight a word or phrase and then type an alpha-character, the Kindle 2 will paste the word or phrase into a searchbox, for searching Wikipedia or for Google'g.

- Andrys
http://kindleworld.blogspot.com

[pentest]

"dave_p_1, doesn't it already support Bookmarks and Annotations? That's the most I ever do with my textbooks...actually I don't even write in them, it's easier to sell them off at the end of the semester that way ;)"

Guess what? You won't be selling back copies on your Kindle.

[pentest]

"maybe textbooks will cost less than $120 now."

Dream on, the prices of textbooks have little to do with printing and distribution costs.

This is a potentially huge market, but only if the textbook publishers substantially cut the price of their products for the Kindle edition. Having seen my own daughters struggle with backpacks jammed with heavy textbooks, I also see this as a boon to students who would, in theory, be able to put all those books on one lightweight Kindle.

[NervClaX]

Agreed. The publishers are and SHOULD be afriad. Their business models are about to come crashing down around their ears. Also, the textbook REsellers should be put ON NOTICE. They really prey upon students buying last year's edition for 1/10th what the student paid for it four months ago. I really thought there would be a more vibrant online market for used textbooks by now, but new editions every other year really kill any chances of that happening.

I think in the future students won't pay for digital textbooks out of pocket. They'll be included in the price of the course because the school has a blanket license. You'll buy your Kindle or whatever and receive a downlaod code when you register for classes. Otherwise, what's to stop piracy?

[make_or_break]

NervClaX: funny, when I was a starving student all those years ago the only ones guilty of piracy were the ones selling (at a premium) and then buying back (at a pittance) textbooks.

[BigGuns149]

@NervClaX : I fail to see how the publishers should be afraid of the Kindle. If anything the Kindle may help pad profits. Most of the cost of a textbook in most cases is the printing and distribution. By eliminating most of the costs of those two stages of creating a book the publishers could cut prices 40-50% and still make more per book. Furthermore, if there is DRM on these texts they could eliminate much of the reseller market.

The only thing that I think should make publishers concerned is that some colleges are moving away from texts created by publishers and more towards public domain or liberally licensed textbooks (eg. CC share alike).

I don't see how students in the future won't pay for textbooks in the future unless all course materials are freely licensed. Merely because one embeds the price of the books into the course doesn't mean that the cost is zero. I think a lot of students would prefer to be able to decide where they purchase their course materials and whether they purchase the materials at all. I can remember some courses in college where I either didn't need one of the assigned books, I could share a book with someone else taking the class, or I already had the assigned book from another class. It would be incredibly wasteful not only economically, but environmentally to buy a book that a student already had. While in theory a large college or university could buy books in bulk cheaper than an individual could that isn't always the case.

@ make_or_break: While I empathize of students everywhere it would be inaccurate to call a used book seller a pirate.

[pentest]

Why would publishers be scared?

They already offer PDF versions for about the same price as a physical book. Anyone idiotic enough to buy a Kindle will be idiotic enough to pay the same price for a DRM'ed digital copy.

[pentest]

"@ make_or_break: While I empathize of students everywhere it would be inaccurate to call a used book seller a pirate."

I agree, the campus and off-campus bookstores are not pirates, they are thieves.

[twitter_1963]

THe problem I see is, you have to have a laptop anyway, so now, what, you have to carry BOTH... No way. How about, we make a Laptop Screen, be removable/connectable and with the Kindle Architecture in it, or on the other side. Sometimes, technologists, just don't THINK outside of the box...

[svgtom]

Well, would you rather carry a laptop and three or four heavy textbooks, or a laptop and a Kindle?

[tcr071]

I would rather carry a laptop with three or four textbooks on the laptop.

[spai]

Textbooks on laptops already exist. Zinio.com is an example (http://mhhe.zinio.com/). The issues comes back to the usage models, business model, and rights management: authors vs. publishers vs readers. In the new digital world, a satisfactory (reality vs. expectations) balance has not yet been achieved.

[badasscat]

The whole reason e-readers exist is that standard LCD screens are terrible for reading things for long periods of time. The whole e-ink thing was developed so a screen could exist that looks and acts like paper.

Not to mention, you just turn the thing on and you're reading. With a laptop, you have to boot into your OS, launch a program, etc. If you want to look up one little fact on one page, you're not going to spend 5 minutes to do it... but you would spend 10 seconds to pick up a reader.

And of course there are battery life issues. Now, say you have this laptop with a detachable screen. What happens to the battery? Do *both* the screen and the laptop itself have a battery? They would have to, because the screen battery would need to be too small to power both units together. That adds weight. And the screen battery life would be very low because you're talking about a backlit LCD. E-ink displays are no good for general computing work, of which you'd still expect the laptop to be capable.

I think you've basically missed the point of the Kindle and other e-readers.

[tcr071]

Uh I can read fine on my laptop display. It is a matte screen. I can also read in the dark and hey if I am plugged into an outlet I can read for an infinite amount of time. It was said "carry around three or four textbooks." Who sits and reads text books at Starbucks and even if you do, there are still power outlets. Oh yeah plus the fact that when I have a laptop I have plenty of other things I can do as well. Try watching a movie on the $500 book reader.

[sjschaef]

There already is a netbook with a detachable screen... both the screen and the base have a battery... and it is touch screen.

http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/home/index.htm

[zyxxy]

You mean like this:

http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/home/index.htm

The screen slides off the keyboard. Both screen and keyboard have batteries, so run time is longer when they are paired. The CPU is in the screen, the connection to the dock is power + USB.

How about one of these with an instant on 'Kindle' layer for reading ebooks and a normal boot to an OS for full computer mode use?

[BigGuns149]

@ twitter_1963: As badasscat implied there are a lot of advantages to the display technology that the Kindle uses compared to the typical LCD display on a laptop. The battery life for a Kindle and a laptop aren't even in the same ballpark. The Kindle display only uses power to change to the pages so you could go weeks without recharging the thing whereas a laptop is lucky it lasts a day without recharging.

Sometimes, technology neophytes act like armchair experts, but clearly don't understand what they are talking about.

[nrg.dude]

16 shades of gray is sooooo 1980's. When can we expect a real reader with 256 shades of gray? You need that level of contrast for the smaller text and photos in textbooks and such. At that point, I'll gladly step up and pay $299 for the DX.

[Long-Locks]

Better idea... a color screen, with an option to change to true grayscale for reading material more appropriately displayed that way. Sure, the NY Times and Washington Post look fab in gray, but the Kindle will never appeal to Vogue or National Geographic that way. And throw an email reader and web browser in there while you're at it. At that point, I'll gladly step up and pay $250 for the DX (and $175 for the Kindle II with the same features). You do realize it's 2009, right?

[BOTNET]

how about 65,000,000,000,000 shades? have you actually used kindle 2? stop comparing it LCD, the screen looks like piece of paper - it's just amazing

[pentest]

Math, science, engineering and CS books are almost always color. Without color, this is a toy for the e-retarded.

[megustansalchichas]

yeah for that price i'd rather use a laptop

[thehog2]

I'll wait for the Apple iPAD. :)

[Rod Roddy]

Apple is doing feminine hygiene products? ;)

[tcr071]

Don't hold your breath and keep your wallet shut. Please tell me you didn't think $500 was too expensive. At least the Kindle won't have monthly fees.

[thehog2]

I was being facetious.

[mhr512]

Too expensive. Why?

[pentest]

Because it is under-featured, doesn't do everything you can do with a book, and is very expensive.

[Kesteral]

My local public library has an excellent selection of e-books. Will the Kindle (any of them) allow me to read any of these books? Or will I only have access to Amazon's e-book store?

[cthielen]

The short answer is yes but not necessarily in an elegant fashion: it depends on the format the ebooks are in. This new Kindle (and perhaps via software update, older Kindles) supports PDFs natively, so that format will be easily transferred to your Kindle. .mobi and other formats will probably require conversion, and unless the software is rather good, it's likely to alter the formatting a bit.

[tcr071]

$500? Wow. There some people with too much money or not enough brains if these things are selling well. $500 just to read a book and it doesn't come with free books. I think I'll stick to perusing half-priced books, put a book in my backpack because they are already portable, and save myself $500.

[KMT0500]

People will shell out $300 for a game console which doesn't come with any games. Obviously you have to pay more for content. Amazon, Feedbooks, MobileRead, Gutenberg, etc. offer thousands of public domain books for free. Even if they aren't pre-loaded, they are still easy to get and that content won't cost the user a cent.

[masonx]

There seems to be some kind of market for every single purpose gadget that comes along. The question for the Kindle and other single purpose device makers - is if there are enough single purpose gadget freaks out there to support them. I'm guessing not - especially for those that cost more than $50. For me, the Kindle and other single purpose devices that can just as well be implemented on my laptop, or note book are in efficient in both space, weight and financially wasteful to point of severe stupid. The last thing I want is to drag more gadgets around with me. I gave up my desk top 10 years ago and never looked back over my laptop screen. I do more of my phone work on my laptop than I do on my cell phone - which I would love to chunk and just use my laptop. I don't even own any gaming devices. I will never buy a reader - Kindle or another brand. I will download books on to my laptop and archive them on my mass storage device. I know this isn't what our consumptive consumer oriented manufactures want to hear - but listen up. I want universal devices and not single purposed devices. If you want discuss this further just Skype me on my laptop.

[john94857]

That?s awesome that a larger-display version is coming out. It is kind of odd that it costs as much as a laptop as someone said?

I agree with the previous comment that colors would be nice. If they properly take care of tables, graphics, annotations, that would make this a very powerful tool for textbooks.

I don?t have a Kindle but checked one out from a friend. The screen is very neat and unlike most standard back-lit LCDs. If you get a chance, check it out. Kindle?s display is VERY cool and more comfortable for all-day reading.

In any case, it is awesome that there is another, larger screen, Kindle coming out. It is pretty exciting that Amazon is putting a ton of effort into revolutionizing and popularizing eBooks.

If Amazon?s Kindle can properly take care of tables, graphics, annotations, that would make this a very powerful tool for textbooks. The impact on traditional newspaper is less clear, unless Kindle can have a very low price point.

On the note about Amazon, thanks to PC World, I came across an interesting table that shows Amazon?s discounts in various categories. It is at http://www.uberi.com

Maybe someone will find it useful too, or at least somewhat amusing?

[Kimsh]

I can't see any way that Amazon is revolutionaizng eBooks. There have been readers out for many years with the same type of screen. Most didn't have a keyboard because they didn't have direct over the air ordering. Please don't try to tell me that is revolutionary, or worth the extra dollars.

[M_K_Higa]

I wish my middle-school kid could load all her text books on this device. Her backpack weighs a ton.

[Adam111111]

The "Kindle" definitely falls into the ever growing category of products almost as stupid as the people who buy them.

[badger_prof]

Stupid? Stupid? Do you mean stupid like somebody who assumes that just because a product is not appealing to him/her that anybody who does find the product appealing is stupid?

[pentest]

No, because the Kindle fills no real need.

[LordOfMictlan]

Honestly, I don't understand the appeal of the Kindle.

For almost $500 you get a netbook that only reads certain kinds of documents in 16 shades of gray? And you still have to buy the content? This seems to be a confusion of device with application and content. An intentional confusion that serves to lock the content in a provider-controlled delivery system. With the exception of battery life, all the appealing features are the services. I can buy a pretty good laptop for $500, and I can use it to see any kind of content in 32-bit color. And I can play World of Warcraft at the same time.

Newspapers are in trouble because now content can flow to many places and doesn't need to be printed on material one grade up from toilet paper. In the distant future, there will be this thing called the Internet where you can get news immediately, and in full-color. Often for free.

[badasscat]

If you don't understand the appeal of this, you obviously have never had to lug around close to 100 pounds worth of textbooks to a class...

[LordOfMictlan]

I've lugged around lots of textbooks. Art History 101 was good-gawd-awful. Somebody should invent a way they can be read on a laptop. Maybe they can find a way to put a book into a document like a .pdf and call it an eBook. Why lug around 2 screens when you do everything with 1?

[LuvThatCO2]

Remember, the Kindle features an e-ink display... NOT an LCD display. Reading e-Ink displays are a far better experience, like reading printed paper. Thats whats being paid for her and why there is so much interest. I believe Fujitsu has a soon-to-be color e-ink reader.

[LordOfMictlan]

And when the e-ink technology is useful enough for laptops, it will probably be adopted there. A lot of documents/textbooks need more than 16 shades of gray. Art History illustrations and Biology diagrams are gonna suffer. But not on a non-e-ink laptop. :)

[LordOfMictlan]

E-ink on this $500 model won't even show grayscale images properly. 4-bit monochrome is pretty shabby. But it should handle 1980's clipart just fine.

[Renegade Knight]

@badasscat

I took notes in class, in a notebook. The Text was for homework and reading assignments.

[pentest]

"If you don't understand the appeal of this, you obviously have never had to lug around close to 100 pounds worth of textbooks to a class..."

I have, and guess what? It has no appeal to me because it can not replace a physical book, and if I want to sell it(which is rare), I can.

[cag4]

reading this on my iPhone... In color... Just finished reading the nytimes.com... In color... Oh, and followed this link from my email.... On this device... Might check my calendar and make some phone calls, watch a movie or listen to some tunes... On this one device. Oh, and I might read a kindle book... In the kindle iPhone app.

On the off chance that the screen isn't big enough... I might turn on my laptop... The one with the 15" screen... In color.

Waaaaaay too niche product...

[zyxxy]

Yeah, the iPhone is definitely Waaaaaay too niche a product... If it wasn't, I would own one, but I don't.

[BOTNET]

turn your iPhone on and your shiny MaxBook on and don't forget your iPod ... how much Apple brainwashed you? You should really check out Kindle 2 screen before you compare it to LCD

[pentest]

The iPhone, for all its flaws, is not niche.

If it were iPhones, Blackberries, etc, would not be rising significantly is sales across many demographics, the Kindle isn't and will never.

[Slick1of2]

I will be a junior in college next semester, and I found that two years of carrying around a dozen or more books, a binder, folders, and notebooks every semester was just killing me. So a few months ago I purchased myself a laptop (a 13in screen VAIO that weighs probably just over four pounds with the nine hour battery). It has helped me a lot with reducing my load and helping stay more organized and taking better notes. With the release of this new Kindle I have become very excited. However I just did a search for all my current text books (the main ones I need for my classes) on companies Kindle says they have partnered with (Pearson, Cengage Learning, and Wiley), and I could not find any of my text books. So I went onto Amazon and did a search for all ten textbooks I am using this semester under "Kindle Store". My search came up with only one result and it was for a Pulitzer Prize winning book, Founding Brothers. At least they have a Pulitzer Prize winning book in their store!

I would really LOVE to have this Kindle next to my laptop (it would be just like having the old paper notebook and textbook back on the desk, but in digital format. I don't believe I need to say the advantages of this). However, with the limited amount of textbooks available to me, spending the bucks on a Kindle seems to be a waste. They seem to be preaching how convenient this is for students, but if they do not have the books students need, then this is misleading advertisement.

My suggestion to all students thinking about purchasing a Kindle for this purpose, should first try to find if their textbooks are available in digital format. It would be a real bummer to fork out $300 and not be able to use the darn device.

I think the Kindle is a great thing, but it is a long way from being practical in the school system.

P.S. Does the Kindle remind anyone of the Star Trek pads?

[svgtom]

Just because Amazon has deals with textbook publishers doesn't mean they are available yet. I'm sure you'll see more by the time the Fall semester rolls around.

[Slick1of2]

I hope more textbooks are available by the Fall, but I have been interested in obtaining digital books for a long time and I occasionally do searches to find my current text books. So far I have just found one and that was today. I would think it will take two or maybe five more years before there is a good sized selection of textbooks.

[PCsRfun]

The textbook publishers must be quite excited about offering e-books. After all, this would mean that students can't buy/sell used text books anymore. Even if the e-books are slightly discounted (and you know it won't be a big price difference), they will probably still cost more than a used book.

[Renegade Knight]

True that. Students should pay attention to the utter lack of resale and the likey full price they are going to pay.

[BigGuns149]

It remains to be seen how much that textbooks will be discounted, but a lot of mass market ebook titles are often half off or more compared to the paperback version of the same books. If textbook vendors discount their Kindle versions similarly I wouldn't exactly call that a slight discount. Unless you are able to sell your book for 50% of its' face value, which rarely happens you would be better off buying he ebook version instead for cost. Heck, I remember in college it was often difficult to get more than 20% of the face value for a book because the class was either not offered the next term in which case there was no student interested in your book and/or most resellers were already inundated with that book.

I think the bigger reason that a lot of student won't buy the ebook versions is that a lot of people don't want to invest in the cost of a Kindle and some types of diagrams won't be as effective on the ebook as they are on paper.

[wdboyd]

Larger is nice, but certainly not innovative. I was hoping for features that might set the stage for launching Kindle 3:

http://www.innovationinpractice.com/innovation_in_practice/2009/01/the-lab-innovating-the-kindle-with-task-unification-january-2009.html

[cardfan1212]

I use a Kindle to read regular books and its great.

On the other hand...I wouldn't want to use it as a textbook. Not at all. Though i keep some for reference, most get sold back. I'm more apt to write in a textbook while going back and forth in chapters frequently. Plus i can lay a textbook down while writing in notebook..hard to do that with a thin Kindle and be able to see it.

Other reasons:

textbooks need to be in color. The material isn't all text by a longshot.

textbooks wouldn't be cheaper. No more used books. You're always buying new when it comes to ebooks.

I can have two books open at once. Many come with study guides. If i go all ebook, this becomes a pain.

[Renegade Knight]

Good point on more than one book open at once. My desk use to get quite covered in materials while doing homework.

[lancaster8739]

I can see parents of soon-to-be-freshman University Students plopping down $500 for one of these and just chalking it up to one of the many costs of a higher education. I can see the student's argument being that all they will have to carry with them is their laptop, their kindle, and a pen and pad of paper. No more lugging 3 heavy textbooks around campus for a days worth of classes. The price seems really high for the average consumer (outside of California), but it's probably not too bad when considered for a University Student and the portability benefits.

[LordOfMictlan]

But when you pay the $500, you are really paying the publishers to make their content secure from you. They can already deliver to a laptop via .pdf or whatever proprietary format they want to create. That option has been around for years. But the publishers are afraid of not being able to control delivery and redistribution. So you pay them $500 for the extra screen and content lock. Consider it anti-pirate tax.

[Kimsh]

There are numerous eBook formats that have been around for ages, some with decent copy protection. What you are paying for is the luxury tax of having a device that not many people have, and one that locks you into a single source for all future content and servicing. Its kind of like Apple that way.