Comments on: In defense of Sprint and the Palm Pre

An internal AT&T document attacks the Palm Pre for being inferior to the Apple iPhone, but CNET editor Bonnie Cha defends the Pre--and Sprint.

[seven7dust]

Lol ! this looks like the Microsoft's biased Apple tax transcript

although I prefer the iPhone any day
I admit that the Pre's multitasking cards interface is a very impressive feature !

but till the pre launches any Comparison is FUD I'm afraid

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

Why is it people keep comparing a phone that is not even out yet to a phone that is about to get revamped, and has been out for a year. The new iPhone is reported to have double the capacity it has now, thus the high end may have 4x the capacity. Also, the Pre will only run webOS apps. When the iPhone initially did this people complained loudly. Now the Pre does it and it's a benefit??? The iPhone will run much more complex and intensive applications due to the greater abilities of the SDK (i.e. the ability to run real apps, not web junk). The fact that the iPhone is already out, and running very nice apps will spell doom for a phone that does not have anywhere close to the abilities when it comes to running apps. In order for the Pre to succeed it needs to surpass the iPhone, but it is coming up far short in several respects. BTW, anyone would rather have a thinner phone that is wide with a large screen, rather than thicker and not as wide with a small screen.

[jlt0x]

True, an early comparison is NULL unti the Pre officially makes it out to the consumers.

Also, the "memo" of sort, does show that, at least, some AT&T staff is a bit worried that Palm's newest phone will take back some lost market share that the iPhone had when it was introduced. Do we remember when the iPhone first became available? There was quite a bit of chatter about its touchscreen keyboard, menus, inability to swap the battery, external memory reader (big thing with me), etc.

There is a lot you can do with the iPhone, but there's also a lot you CAN'T do with it that doesn't necessarily make it the best choice for a business phone. For example, that drag-and-drop for music also includes all other types of files too. Some people don't appreciate being tethered to iTunes and having to convert back-and-forth between formats just to transfer music. Today's Palm Treo 700w acts almost like a handheld PC that can also make phone calls & send text messages. There is some rhyme and reason to Palm's simplicity.

I'll admit that I do like the iPhone for the new tech that it has helped usher in to the mainstream for cell phones. But I won't call it perfect....at least for me.

[jlm429]

how is full QWERTY keyboard a bad thing?

[wtgig]

why the comparison to the iphone??? isnt the iphones menu just a beautified version of the now classic palm menu with a slide to unlock screen when it is awoken???

[SeanBlader]

Good call Bonnie. I will back up the Pre though, with MotionApps PalmOS emulator that's reportedly outstanding, enough so to support old PalmOS action games, that gives the Pre the lead in the installed base of existing applications and downloaded applications. Let's not forget that it was Palm that killed the Newton. Now Palm dropped the ball for the media and phone capabilities initially, and Apple really learned from their mistake, but this time the shoe is on the other foot and it's time for Palm to step up, repeat history, and put Apple in it's place.

[moretroops]

"Repeat history"? The newton had an installed base of roughly 3 people. The iphone has millions and growing. It's not going to get supplanted, no matter how strong the Pre turns out to be. Btw, by the time this thing hits the market the iphone will be revamped. I'm all for competition, and I hope the Pre is a strong device -- but to compare the iphone to the Newton you have to "ignore history."

[DarkHawke]

Wasn't it the Newton that killed the Newton? I'm just sayin'....

[trickycoolj]

So does this mean I can stop banking on AT&T getting the GSM version of Pre? I'm due for a phone in November and I was crossing my fingers... now maybe I'll just go back to a dumbphone.

[cameronr31]

Not coming to any other carriers for awhile at least. Only on the fastest network and the most economical carrier and that is Sprint!

[saratoga808]

I sure hope Palm releases this phone ready for business. I'm a long time Verizon hold out that will switch to Sprint and give them a shot for this phone. Sprint be warned, your past history of frusterating customer service better be in check or you'll blow a possible BIG opportunity this phone is offering.

[monkeyfun14]

Atleast they're better then AT&T =S

[bakedpatato]

agreed monkeyfun...i've been through the hoops at Sprint and AT&T; I would not wish AT&T's tech support upon my worst foes.

[tweetdriver63]

I switched to Sprint 5 years ago. My first experience with their customer service, was that they gave me an almost $200 credit on my bill, to cover the disconnect fee I had to leave Cingular. Since then, I've never had a bad customer service experience with them. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've had 4 phones continuously with them the whole time, and so far, so good.

[ofmyony]

Sprint made me pay a one cent bill. I called customer service and asked, do I have to pay this one cent, and they said yes. They would not stop sending me bills unless I paid. I drove to the Sprint store, opened the envelope and loudly said here is the one cent I owe you please close my account, thank you (That was after the previous month, where I asked them I am paid in full and they said yes, I still received that one cent bill the next month, unbelievable).

Absolutely a true story. Sprint has the very worst customer service. All four major mobile providers have terrible service but Sprint wins hands down.

[rapier1]

Ofmyony, I can't believe they made you pay your bill! The nerve of those people!

[talking poo]

Ofmyony - Gotta agree with rapier. You look like a Grade A ****** whining about paying 1 cent. Most ppl would chuckle, pay it off, and be done with it. The fact that you actually spent time to call CS, physically drove to the store to make a point, than write up on the internet shows time poorly spent. Its not like some Sprint employee is smoking his cigar in some high-rise looking to squeeze every penny out of you. The billing is an automated system--like what every corporation has--that, gasp, will send you a bill if you have a balance on it.

Your need to turn it into a spectacle speaks more volumes about you rather than Sprint.

[NYTechie]

@talking poo I think rapier was agreeing that it was ridiculous that ofmyony had to pay the one cent bill, not saying that ofmyony was riduculous for complaining about it. And I agree, I think it's so stupid for such a big company (have you SEEN their headquarters in Kansas City?? It's like a city) to get nitpicky about one cent bills, especially when it's a balance on an otherwise CLOSED account. Ridiculous. I would have complained too.

[ebloomca]

@NYTechie - I think it's hilarious that you rapier1 was agreeing with ofmyony. He was being sarcastic and I agree. How can someone complain about paying their bill. You owe money, you should pay it. Or don't, I don't care, but don't be surprised when a collection agency is calling you to pay your 1 cent, which will be more by then. All because you feel you are too good to have to pay what you own, weather it be 1 cent of 100 dollars. I'm betting you all voted for Obama too, cuz you want everything for free. God forbid you do the responsible thing and fend for yourself.

[NYTechie]

@ebloomca So you're saying that if any company quotes you a specific amount, in this case a bill, and you pay it, then they come back and say "Oh, sorry, we were off ONE CENT and need you to pay this as well", especially when you're otherwise free and clear of that company, you should blindly pay the amount and pay no attention to their poor billing practices? Also, have you thought about the amount of paper, man power and postage Sprint ABSORBED worth them bugging someone over a freakin' penny--I guarantee it cost way more than that bill was worth. It's so, so wasteful, my Republican friend.

[sweaty_taco]

@ ofmyony, rapier1, talking poo, NYTechie, and ebloomca. I totally hear what your sayin.

[tweetdriver63]

I notice the AT&T folks have also left out the fact that the pre also has a multi-touch screen, not just a basic touch screen. I'm not an insider either, but wasn't palm making pda phones at least ten years before Apple ever even thought about it, and didn't palm invent the pda? That's what I thought. As the previous poster pointed out, there are thousands of palm OS apps out there that will run on the Pre. It's also a safe bet that all the cool third-party apps available of the iPhone will have webOS counterparts soon.

I can't wait for the Pre. I've had two palm-based phones in the past, and I loved them both. The first was a Samsung i500 palm flip-phone, and the other was a Treo 650. I really miss all the things they could do that the phones I've had since couldn't. My current phone, an Instinct, is great, but it's just a phone. When it was hyped as an "iPhone killer," that was nothing but hype, but the pre really does look like it could be. The only thing the iPhone will keep as an advantage is the yuppie-cool factor that Apple products all carry.

[capnvan]

"I'm not an insider either, but wasn't palm making pda phones at least ten years before Apple ever even thought about it, and didn't palm invent the pda?"

The answer to all of those questions would be no.

Of course, you're not an insider. If you were, no doubt you'd recall that Palm was started by former Apple employees who had worked on the Newton.

[cameronr31]

Tweetdriver63 I completely agree that the Apple is just a yuppie phone! I personally see lots and lots of iPhone and they are big time yuppies. Just thought I would give you my two cents. :)

[godby_wireless]

Thanks Bonnie for the defense. I am a Sprint Preferred Retailer tat has been in the telecommunications industry for 15 yrs and I have been amazed that everyone is quick to bash a product that has only been demoed at the recent conventions and gave to a handful of gadget hounds to test. I look forward to getting ahold of this product and I think it will be a huge success. I totally agree that people deserve to have a choice. Thanks again for your continued coverage.

[mason2009]

with the general amount of positive feedback on the Pre, i'm expecting its webOS to rock. here's to sprint not screwing things up and creating a higher data plan for their flagship phone. currently, i pay $15/mo for UNLIMITED DATA plan for a WinMoBo v6.1 device (vs $30 for AT&T and $45 for Verizon).

[MPB]

I agree any comparison until it is released is floored, however the iPhone has a huge advantage and it won't belong until the next generation is out. Really we should wait for the Pre and the third gen iPhone to be released before we do any sort of comparison.

[dasbeav]

AT&T just keeps screwing up relations for phone manufacturers. First there was the similar document for the BlackBerry Storm, now the one for the Pre....I'm guessing that Blackberry and Palm won't be wanting to give any new smartphones to AT&T anytime soon.

[cameronr31]

If this is true it will make me very happy. AT&T is evil! lol Why choose a carrier with horrible 3G and also more expensive plans, also hold times that you better hope that you phone has a good speaker phone. The Sprints 3G is the best and they have the best plans. Smartphone company?s love Sprint and Palm choose Sprint due to the superior 3G and also data packages that are affordable.

[Splashes]

Um, Ms. Cha, "unproven app store" is not a baseless statement; it's a fact, until Palm's app store actually opens for business and proves itself in the real world. You admit "we won't know for sure until it's out" -- isn't that a fair definition of "unproven"? And I think most everyone would agree that "unproven" is a relevant issue ("Hmmm, do I buy the phone through which a billion apps have been downloaded, or the phone that *might* have a good app store?").

I must blushingly admit I giggled like a schoolgirl to see you combat the charge of "limited free wi-fi access" by pointing to AT&T's "wonky 3G coverage." Yep, there's a relevant argument. Shot down in flames, AT&T was.

And your second-to-last paragraph is a big ol' mess. You mention that "I'd agree that the Pre is a formidable competitor to the iPhone", then, in the very next clause, you add, "but the fact is, until the Pre actually launches and we see how it performs in real life, we simply don't know." You know, *and* you don't know? How delightfully nonsensical! Then you say "it's unfair to pick one as the 'winner.' I won't do it." Goodness, you're so brave! Just curious -- who sold you the strawman, and for how much?

Your last paragraph is the only one that contains anything worth a positive response. There's obviously room in the segment for another good smartphone, especially since the Pre is CDMA. I'm looking forward to the Pre, and I'll definitely be checking it out when it arrives. Too bad it's not on Verizon; maybe soon?

"Senior Editor", huh?

Sigh.

[tweetdriver63]

Sorry, but what you're missing is that the palm doesn't need an "app store." An "app store" is just a way for Apple/AT&T to monopolize the segment. There are a gazillion palm OS apps already out there (proven apps), and they will run on the Pre with the Palm OS emulator. The Palm app store will be all webOS apps, and Palm is encouraging third-party development already. Given some time (probably less time than the iPhone's app store took), I'd bet it will be loaded with cool stuff.

The big thing about this article, is to point out how ridiculously biased and spun the AT&T comparison paper is. They left out the multi-touch screen of the Pre. They left out the fact that the Pre multi-tasks -- something the iPhone can't. They left out the better camera, etc. They left out the internal accelerometer (like the iPhone has), which automatically rotates the display 360 degrees (something the iPhone's doesn't do). They left out the Pre's removable battery. I mean, really.

[Splashes]

Apparently Ms. Cha is missing the same thing, as is Palm and every other person on the planet who has managed to beg, borrow or steal a clue. Now be honest: you're not *really* positing that Palm OS apps can compete with iPhone apps, are you? That was just a little joke, right?

As to how ridiculous the AT&T doc is, tell me: If you were the head of sales at AT&T, and you -- haha, can't finish that hypothetical with a straight face. Instead, I'll just point out that AT&T is trying to sell iPhones, not Pres.

[ogcyko]

wow this poster sounds like a complete jerk...

I'm pretty sure when apple's apps store first came out it was "unproven" also... and I agree with tweet about apple/at&t trying to monopolize the sector....

and how is it limited wifi? because they can't use the "at&t hotspots?" Please.

stop being so obnoxious.

[statelypenguin]

As for the wi-fi/3G comment, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Sure, you get better wi-fi coverage with AT&T. But their 3G coverage is terrible. So technically, yes they were right. But it belies the fact that unless I'm in a freaking Starbucks, my data coverage is spotty at best.

I mean, if you're going to parse intent this much, why not attack her for implying that the weight difference with the Pre is negligible?

Finally, as a longtime Verizon person, I'm jumping ship for this phone (likely - we'll have to see how it actually turns out). For a while I thought I'd just hold out and wait for it to come to Verizon, as Sprint's exclusivity agreement is only to the end of the year, I believe. But then I decided that I could go to Sprint and get unlimited data and messaging for roughly the same price I'm paying right now for no data plan whatsoever. I also don't trust Verizon to actually open the phone up and let people really use its features. Verizon loves the whole 'walled garden' approach, which is something I'm begrudgingly accepted for years.

[calculatorwatch]

@Splashes

So you're defending at&t's right to put out ridiculously biased information by attacking some counter-arguments that are a little biased about said information's rediculousness? I'm confused

Btw, yes I know it's at&t marketing's job to convince people to buy iphones but it's also Bonnie Cha's job to educate consumers so they don't make decisions based on biased info, so to put it simply, at&t apparently needs to lie to get people to buy the iPhone and Bonnie Cha needs to call them out on it, there isn't meant to be peace in this system so don't get so worked up about it

But what am I saying, I should also include the third part of the system: People that don't have much respect for themselves need to troll and try to tear apart everyone else's arguments and insult them so that they can feel good. So yeah I guess I shouldn't lecture you for playing your part

[capnvan]

"So you're defending at&t's right to put out ridiculously biased information..."

Repeat after me: It's an internal memo.

There's nothing being "put out."

[calculatorwatch]

It's an internal memo for the sales ppl to say that to every customer that walks in the door

yes it's being "put out"

[mikeplaysguitar]

Splashes... that was a really purposeless response. If you want to be Bonnie Cha's supervisor, then apply for the job if there's an opening. If you verbally communicate in any way as you do in writing, then I wouldn't expect a callback.

"Splashes", huh? "Blushingly admit I giggled like schoolgirl"? You're a poet.

[Kontracnet]

iPhone + iPod touch combined have 37 million users, likely to surpass 50 million by the end of this year. Developers go where the users are. Palm Pre is not even in the same league as Apple's touch *platform*. More here:

Strategic shortcomings of Pre in the post-iPhone era
http://counternotions.com/2009/01/12/pre/

[qst4]

I guess my question is why is everyone so negative about the pre? Will the pre cause iphones to explode. Is it unhealthy, will it give you cancer. Does it devourer little kids? I read your comment and the countermotion article and I just don't get it. If it thrives it thrives, if it dies it dies, so what. I'll buy it, but I know sooner or later something better will come out. I won't lose sleep, that's what always happens. People defend Apple and the iphone like its their God.

[vuducandi]

Bonnie was quite fair. If we are going on users alone, think about how many people workdwide still have phones that can run palm type apps, which like a poster mentioned earlier, are like a gazillion since developers have been making them for DECADES and still make similar apps for windows mobile. A palm app store will just add to all that.
I used to have a palm way back when and would have a phone that uses those apps i loved, many freeware or shareware, if tmobile offered any that looked cute and had a good camera.
I now have an itouch, which i got because of the app store. My phone has been different sidekicks, a useful and fun little device many overlook thinking they are for little kids. But will give both those up for the G2 when it comes out. Android os just kicks ass, plain and simple
Although the phone selection is not great, i'm NOT EVER GIVING UP TMOBILE SERVICE both connection wise and most fantastic customer service EVER

[ewelch]

Remember the Verizon talking points before the iPhone was released? It's PR. And you can't have Prevaricate without starting with PR.

[rickcj1]

Well, in a few years we'll see if we remember Palm at all.

[gerrrg]

We'll see by the end of the year, whether Palm is still around or not, since Palm has placed all their eggs in the Pre's basket.

it is now official that Pre is better than the iPhone.....

[ikramerica--2008]

100% official. But then when iPhone 3.0 comes out, it will be 100% better. Then when webOS 2.0 comes out, obviously the iPhone will instantly suck again.

Or maybe they'll both be good products? Nah, can't be. We must have winners and losers!!

[Anthony_Loera]

This is the comparison chart that will keep people from buying the Palm Pre?

At&T is in deep trouble.

[lonestarState]

I am Pre all the way! To get a decent plan with ATT you have to pay $100+ a month for a stupid cell plan. Anyone which pays over $79 for a cell plan is a real loser. Save your money and buy yourself a vacation at the end of year.

[sting7k]

I think it doesn't really mean anything. AT&T was probably getting word that sales people were being asked about the Pre. So their marketing drew up this memo to pass to the low level people who might know nothing about the Pre. Naturally it will paint the iPhone in a much better light to potential buyers. It's not fear, hate, or anything like that. It's called marketing.

[ofmyony]

Leaked by way of Iphone. Hmmm

[SeizeCTRL]

How many people travel internationally to where GSM really really matters? I think most people tend to stay within their local calling area the majority of the time. I could be wrong and most people are crossing the Atlantic several times a week while I work a boring dead end job. Maybe I can get some of that bailout money so I can get bumped up to a higher tax bracket and I will start visiting Europe several times a month just so I can feel like I am getting my money's worth with AT&T and a GSM iPhone.

[bimmin]

For real. The rare times I find myself in Europe I can just as easily get a prepaid phone there.

[darkpoet25]

Uhm, if it doesn't matter to you then don't buy the iPhone, simple as that. Go with a Pre or whatever else you choose.

[Nerfman]

Great article. I, for one, will be lucky enough to possibly try both. I decided that I'm going to buy the Pre or the new iPhone this May or July. I'll buy the Pre and if I like it then keep it, if not, I'll return it and go buy the iPhone. I just spent a week with a Storm that that was about four days too long. RIM has a long way to go to compete with Apple and Palm. One thing I will say is that we are guaranteed an interesting smartphone summer.

[lgmack]

Im leaving at&t for sprint and picking up a Pre.... in my area.. lack of 3g and dropped calls finally drove me to do it...yay!