Comments on: 'Should I buy a Kuro before it's too late?': Ask the Editors

Having just reviewed the chief competition to Pioneer's well-regarded, and now-extinct, Kuro plasma TVs, CNET editor David Katzmaier recommends which one to buy.

[chrkeller]

Pioneer certainly has a wonderful picture. However I went with the Panasonic 800u. I got the 58 inch version from Newegg, with free shipping and no tax for $2500. Is the Pioneer better, sure, but is it worth the extra few grand. Not to me. I personally think it is foolish to spend a few grand for a slightly better picture.

[ikramerica--2008]

No, you chose to avoid paying tax. But if you check your state tax form, you owe tax. Unless you live in one of the few states that has none...

[coastal_carolina]

*Correction to the article* - Pioneer will STOP making plasmas...

You have "Pioneer will making plasmas" in the first sentence.

[katzmaier]

I will thanking you for pointing that out.

--Katz

[blusky08]

The warranty may be more of an issue than imagined. If Pioneer stops commissioning/manufacturing the specific components in April, will they have the necessary parts (esp. to spec) one or two years from now?

[fmusignac]

SONY 52W4100 rocks! stop wasting your money on things you can't see!

[tek-ed]

Avoid Sony like the plague.
Sony is a bad company. And to support sony is to support bad business! I have made it my mission to remind people whenever I can of Sony's many failures as a company in the industry, not the least of which is their Root Kit fiasco. Sony felt that they were judge, jury and executioner when they illegally used the "CD" logo on their music CDs when in fact, they violated the redbook constraints by embedding a secret program on their music CDs. This insidious program would installl its self in a secret location and "phone home" at regular intervals with the results of it's spying on your music. Sony does not admit what it was going to do with this information but we can only guess that the RIAA was most likely the end recipient of this information!
Unfortunatly (or fortunatly) the program was horribly written and as such caused thousands of computers to fail with no cause. And because this program resided in a critical location on your operating system hard drive, it caused kernel level panics to the OS which caused people to spend thousands of dollars in repair and even replacing their computers. And once this program was discovered, Sony denied that they knew anything about it...And only when they were cornered with irrefutable proof of their wrong doing, did they bregrudgingly admit from behind the safety of their myriad of lawyers that yes, they commisssioned the creation of the program, *but* they claim that they didn't write it so they shouldn't be responsible...Needless to say, a class action suit ensued, where the plaintiffs got a free CD of music from the Sony catalog...big deal! So because of this horrible act, I say, you can find as good or even better than sony for the same price or even cheaper...
Don't buy Sony.
Ed
web/gadget guru

[Alexander_Goldman]

I would also say don't buy Sony, tho not for the same reason as tek-ed. Simply because, to me, their quality control has gone down SIGNIFICATLY over the past decade and I no longer recommend Sony anything to anyone. A shame as my home was Sony-everything. From TV's to phones to alarm clocks to PlayStation but have had customer service problems (Super VHS, to car stereo to TV to monitors) Now? Except for the alarm clock, nothing Sony..

[robd11]

Last I checked, I can see black levels. LCDs still suck at that, even the best ones.

[chrkeller]

The new Sony XBR6 has great black levels, along with a 5k price tag. As mentioned in my first post not taking cost into account is silly. Panasonic is the best out there for the price. $2500 for a 58 inch THX certified plasma is a great value. Pioneer isn't.

[seminolesoccer1989]

Yeah, $2,500 for a 58 inch Panny is a great deal. But so is $1,900 for a 50 inch Kuro. Buying a Pioneer plasma generally isn't a value based proposition. At recent prices for the 50 inch though, it's hard to make a case that buying any other tv ISN'T a poor decision.

[chrkeller]

The 50 inch Pioneer is a fantastic deal, the problem I ran into (I seriously considered picking one up) is 50 inches was too small for my theater. The 60 inch runs over 5k. I would have gone Kuro if the 60 inch models were better priced.

[jrreddig]

This morning I just recieved my new Kuro PDP-5020FD that I ordered from Best Buy.com for $2299. Talk about a steal! Three months ago I bought a Panasonic TH-50PZ800U for the exact same price from Crutchfield. They both have an excellent picture but the Kuros Inky blacks really make it the clear winner between the two. Pure blacks add so much more depth. My 800U is now my bedroom tv . My new KURO teamed up with my Bluray player is my pride and joy of my living room home theater! Trust me and Mr. Katz, get yourself a Kuro before they are all gone.

[jacobus20]

Why pay $2299 for the 50" when you can get the 60" non-Elite Kuro for $2700 from Abe's of Maine? Only $400 more bucks for a huge difference in screen size. Totally worth it and mine is on the way!

[jrreddig]

The reason I chose the 5020FD over the 6020FD is because my entertainment center will only fit a 50in tv. I have absolutly no regrets though. My Kuro looks simply amazing! Last night my fiancee watched Transformers for the first time on the Kuro and we were both speechless. The black are so inky black on the Kuro that the letter box bars on the top and bottom of the screen blended into the edge of the tv to make the screen look like it was floating in mid-air almost! Every movie we watch on the Kuro is like we are watching it for the first time.

[cinca0989]

Hey jacobus20, you mean the Abe's of Maine price was $1000 cheaper just over a week ago? If so, I am now kicking myself. I'm still trying to decide between 6020FD and the 58PZ800U... If I can find the Kuro for under 3 grand, I'm jumping on that immediately, otherwise I think I'll jump on the Panny for 2400 minus 4% by buying from my friend's Amazon Associates account (He's going to give me his 4% cut from Amazon).

[xavierwalls]

The 50" Pioneer elite was just $2500 in my BestBuy store, put quality over quantity, always.
FYI the new Led's are Garbage. Only tv I see competing with the Kuro is possibly the 8000 series Led Samsung rolls out soon.

[granniema]

Always loved the Kuro Elites but could not justify the $2K price premium over the #2 CNET rated Panny models. Was planning on getting a panny G10 or V10 , but BestBuy lowered price of 50 inch Elite Kuro from 4500 to 2800. Its been that price for weeks. I could not resist and picked up the pioneer. I am sooo happy I did. Get one while you can!

[thankgod4plasma]

Hi David Katzmaier! - You made a compelling argument for the panny 800u vs the Kuro 5020fd.
I read that review over 20 times over the last few months, as I was researching, and preparing to buy my first HDTV. In the end, I went with the Kuro. $1895.00 shipped, from a Retailer on CNET. I am blown away by the picture! But, I was wondering, what could I expect from a first class calibration? Is it true that post-calibration the gray-scale is the same as the pro-111 ? I was looking to buy the new pioneer BDP-320/ 23fd blu ray player next month (I have the panny dmp-bd35 now) because of Pioneer's amazing build quality and pq. Is it true if I utilize the new Kuro link, that it will wipe out my professional calibration settings?

[pharmd]

Did you ever get the bdp-320? I have the 111fd and was planing on getting that player. However, I am also concerned that the kuro link would wipe out my calibration. Additionaly, those few who have the bdp-320 have reported on the BD player running hot and taking just as long to load as the previous generation pioneer BD players. Because of this I am currently on the fence between the bdp-320 and the oppo bdp-83.

[shotnoise]

The Elite Kuro Pro-111FD is down to ~$2300 "street" price, virtually 1/2 price from its $5,000 list and a significant $1700 discount over the street price of even 3 months ago. Once tuned properly, the picture is by far the best on the market. A Panasonic TH-58PZ800U for $2500 is an excellent deal. An Elite Kuro Pro-111FD for $2300 (no tax, no shipping) is a truly outstanding deal.

[repoock]

Where can I find the Elite Kuro Pro-111FD for 2300?

[shalinpatel226]

Hello shotnoise. Where did you find the Elite Kuro Pro-111FD for 2300? That sounds like a steal! Thanks

[shotnoise]

Man, the prices for the Elite Pro series are all over the map. Not long ago, NewEgg had the Elite Kuro Pro 111FD for $2299 delivered, but now they don't have it at all (fortunately, they still advertise its brother, the 5020FD, for $1799 delivered. This is actually $20 LESS than they are advertising the 720p 5080HD).

I DID see the Elite Kuro Pro 111FD for $2,000 on-line at Onlen Stores (no recommendation - I never heard of them before), but Best Buy, who was selling the 111FD for ~$2,900 in store a month ago is now selling on-line for list price! Personal opinion, but it sounds like Pioneer may have had something to say about the fire-sale prices on its top-of-the-line plasma displays.

[Yukon_Cornelius]

I currently own a 65" Rear Projection Mitsubishi HD (only 1080i) TV that I purchased in 2005. I've been waiting for a supurbly better picture quality out there in the same the same screen size that is not more than 3K. Apart from the viewing angle on my TV which I don't care too much about I don't understand why the LCDs and Plasmas don't blow me away?? My parent have Samsungs best 52" LCD that you can buy today, and I think its absolute crap in quality. When you watch a movie it looks like the person that was filming couldn't hold the camera stil. The image makes you litterally sick and dizzy after 10mins of watching. When I go to a Bestbuy and check out the Plasmas, I still see a great picture when the image is still but when they show me a scene in HD of a helicoptor flying over the mountain range, the image (exagerating a bit) pulsates and its soooo distracting. I don't care about thinness of a TV or power cusumption, I only care about image quality, and I've seen the Kuro's. They look good, but up close all plasmas look grainy?? IMHO, I think DLPs are a better picture quality, and am considering buying a 73" DLP because I have not seen 1 LCD or Plasma that can handle better refresh rate or image scrolling (or whatever category that is) than my current 65" Mitsu. Been saving money for almost a year to buy a TV, but am waiting to find a newer technology that is in my mind worth the $$. Maybe I'm spoiled having a 65" television. But I'm sick of these new lines of TVs (Like Panny's G10 series) maxing out at 54"?? My absolute minimum size I'd consider getting (Minimum) is a 58" TV. Why are Plasmas so damn small lol!!

[shotnoise]

I have had two different DLPs, a CFL based "color wheel" type and a more advanced LED three-chip type, both from Samsung. If Samsung is representative of the breed, you should walk away from the technology as fast as you can. The picture image is blurry, the viewing angle is terrible - and there are image motion artifacts that make the image appear to go slightly out of focus during action sequences.

I still have the newer of the two Samsung DLPs but it has been relegated to the guest bedroom. We recently retired the older of the two DLPs and replaced it with the Kuro Elite. Couldn't be happier with the image. When attached to a good Blu-Ray player everything from "Planet Earth" to "Iron Man" looks almost 3D. It's hard to beat a plasma for the shear picture rendering on slow scenes and absolutely nothing beats a good plasma for action movies.

[Yukon_Cornelius]

I'd like to purchase the Kuro, but the screen size it way too small for my room. My father in law has a 72" (I think Samsung) DLP and thats the best picture quality I've seen all around when watching movies. We watched "Iron Man" and "Batman Dark Knight" and were blown away by the realism. Maybe its also because if his top of the line Audio equipment and that he has a media room for all of this, but those DLP's are just amazing to me. The only other TV i'm considering is Mitsubishi's new Laser TVs. Once again I could care less about depth of the TV when my room is so gigantic. Its not going to be mounted on a wall and I heard that if you had a Laser TV for 10 years the quality would be the same as if you watched it the first day you bought it. No degregation or need to change bulbs like on DLPs. I just wish there was a technology like that now that more affordable. Atleast the laser tv comes in a 65" size LOL

[Blue_Sky19]

I agree with you, these older Rear Pro's and projection tv's are still awesome aside from connections, I still have my 57 inch Sony 1080i HDTV from 8 years ago, its great, channels flick fast, nice UI, great picture and contrast, it's definatly been reliable! Like you I don't understand the hype with LCD and Plasma, a full 61" 1080p Samsung or Mitsubishi with 4 HDMI 1.3a and a 30,000:1 contrast works perfectly for what, 1200.00. As long as you have the space they're perfect.
LCD's are blurry up close, though they are bright. Plasma's give off too much heat and are grany, I can't see why consumers preferences can be too "illogical".

[StellarGuy]

Since the G10 matched the Kuro in shadow details, would a better approach be to purchase the upcoming 65" V10? You would give up some on absolute blacks, but have the impact of a larger screen.

[Yukon_Cornelius]

Ya I don't know anything about the V10 Panny, and hope that Cnet does a rewiew on the 65" version. Anyone have a guestimation on how much this V10 65" would be around $$?? Are we talking 4K or more? I think the most I'd want to spend is about 3K and thats alot. All I know is that I'm going to be saving more $$ as I wait for the right TV and technology to get out there, hopefully at a reasonalble price.

[AboveTheFray]

If you're not married to the idea of buying from a "Big Box" store, Kuro's are available at deep discounts all over the web. I just purchased a new, factory-sealed PDP-5010FD (last year's award winning model) for $1650 shipped. That would be a great deal even for a "lesser" LCD. The Kuro is the best HDTV available, bar none. Do a little research and you won't have to pay a premium over any LCD you care to mention (and you won't have to convince yourself that the LCD you just bought is "nearly as good" as the Kuro).

[Jefftech]

Plasma Tv's as of this date still outperform any LCD out there!
DLP is great for size but post-buy service or warranty questions remain?
Kuros are a superb choice while they last! Get one!
A Panny with THX is also a great choice!
My LCD's are in the bedroom & at the cottage.

Does anyone remember that Panasonic bought the rights to Kuro Technology from Pioneer last year. Infact, I think that Panasonic will be manufacturing plasma displays for Pioneer with 'Pioneer' logos on them. Correct me if I am wrong.

[savefarris]

they didnt buy the rights to Kuro technology, Pioneer was going to start buying Panasonic glass to use to cut down their costs, but all their intellectual property as far as their processing, etc would remain a trade secret. no word what is happening with that now that pioneer has announced their exit from the flat panel business

[make_or_break]

Meh...it's still a glorified 'boob tube'. People STILL watch TV?

[chrkeller]

TV, not so much. Xbox 360, Playstation 3 and Bluray movies; yes.

[dajedikidd]

Well, with everyone having 2-3 large sized HDTV's, (Duh, I put da crappy one in da bedroom at the vacation home!) I guess this economic mess we are in isn't as bad as everyone is saying. Been looking into Panasonic's for awhile, but with the new house and some medical bills, it ain't happening anytime soon. Guess I'll have to get buy on my seven year old SD 32" Sony WEGA, which still has a great picture as good as the day I bought it. Just wish it didn't weigh 175 pounds.

[Blue_Sky19]

I remember my dad telling me how he bought pioneer products in the 1970's, they were great, and still are. It's a shame they have to cut the Kuro line because they have great pictures, but in these tougher times people are obviously not dropping 5000 on an HDTV, instead, why not get something 2500 cheaper with very close picture and workmanship quality from Samsung or Panasonic!

[ev61]

I too just ordered a Pro-111. I am upgrading from a TH42PZ700u, which is a phenomenal tv, but the Panasonics are NOT Kuros. You definitely pay for it, but it is worth it.