Comments on: Computer newbs kick QWERTY to the curb

The Fast Finger Keyboard has keys that are in the order of the ABC's, and is convenient for beginner typists.

[spaghetti2000]

It' the DVORAK of the 21st century!!

[kylebuttermore]

this is just stupid... everyone is so used to qwerty that this is a step backwards, unless you are just learning now how to use it..

[DontTread0nMe]

this is very stupid..man, we all started by using "the hunt and peck method"..and guess what about about a month of solid keyboard use you dont have to do that anymore. the current keyboard layout is fine..you are 100% right, this is a step backwards

[illegallydead]

exactly. In this day and age, if you want to have a job period, you MUST know how to use a computer. Make a "keyboard for retards" is only doing said retards a disservice by postponing there ability to actually learn how to use a "real" QWERTY keyboard. This goes down in my book as a dumb idea.

[romodoc]

Man! You guys sound so close-minded, I will never buy this keyboard for me, or for my kids to learn the ?wrong? way to type, but I assure you, my grandparents would love to type in a keyboard that actually make sense to them; or as one of you pointed out, someone with mental retardation could benefit from it, I don?t think they are going to a cubicle-job interview anytime soon . There?s a lot of marked out there other than the mainstream you guys circulate in. Besides, I think is a great idea to manufacture a 10 bucks piece of equipment and sell it three times the price for a specific market, perhaps a nursing homes would buy a bunch of this ones. Maybe you guys should also get one and try to type in it, it would be good for making your cerebellum work , create some new neuron connections and get your brains back in shape and out of the box.

[U. Tripps]

@ romodoc

I just did a very unscientific survey on this. I asked my wife, who is a mental health worker, working with older adults, if seniors would use an ABCD keyboard more than a QWERTY keyboard. Her response is that it isn't the keyboard keeping seniors away from using computers.

[drakesc78]

QWERTY will not go away overnight, it's been in use too long. Dvorak tried to get his layout adopted, some typists do use it, but its like the PC/Mac argument. PC has penetrated the consumer and business market far too well and too long for Mac to come around and take over any time soon. This keyboard is nothing revolutionary, I'm sure it was thought of when keyboards were first introduced as input methods on the first typewriters. If you look back and do a little research, the keys are in their current layout for a reason. It may be a little dated by todays terms, but its been in use for a while so I don't think you're going to see a bunch a trash in the near future in favor of this one.

[b_baggins]

Some of the reasons (like keeping keys from sticking by putting them on opposite sides of the carriage) no longer apply, but others (balancing typing load evenly between the hands) remains.

I've used Dvorak, and it's biggest problem is that you spend most of your time typing with one hand.

[SwiftAero]

To b_baggins:

You might find it interesting to note that typing your entry with a Dvorak keyboard splits the effort between the left and right hands as 69/86 while typing on QWERTY keyboard results in 94/61, and this is even with QWERTY removed from your text ... it wouldn't be a fair to your preferred keyboard layout if QWERTY remained because that all falls to your left hand.

As another reference, this comment to which I'm responding (from drakesc78) has Dvorak at 261/295 while QWERTY comes in at 310/247, again with QWERTY removed from the text for greater fairness.

In other words, your mention of typing with one hand falls to the QWERTY keyboard more so than Dvorak. Send me other sample text and I'll be happy to report back.

[rpen25]

The current qwerty layout was devised because the original designer wanted to slow down the rate of typing because the mechanical typewriter would get jammed or stuck when the "typebars" impacted against the ribbon. The designer made numerous attempts before finally settling on the current layout that we all know. It's not that qwerty is more efficient or faster in modern computers and laptops, it's because the physical layout reduced the jams and mechanical clashes of the typebars in the original typewriters. And because you could spell "typewriter" all on the first row of letters.

[b_baggins]

Interesting Swift. Since I am left-handed, maybe that explains why I prefer QWERTY.

[Bohica55]

If you look at the history of the keyboards, QWERTY came first, but Dvorak was quickly coming up as an equal or even a superior keyboard until World War 1 came along and typewriters were needed in massive numbers. This blew Dvoraks' chances out of the water. Dvorak is a far more efficient layout as it spreads the key usage out among the fingers far more evenly and making it easier to type as QWERTY made some keystrokes into an uneven split between Right and Left hands. If it wasn't for this Dvorak would be the main form of typing or at least the equal of the present uneven setup that we have come to accept as standard, when it actually tires out the typist. LONG LIVE DVORAK.

[bkerrins]

You really believe that just because qwerty has been around for so long that no one will change? That's like saying why carry a mobile phone, I'll just call my friends when I get home. Or I won't look things up on the internet because I have an encyclopedia at home. Teenagers have already figured out how to type just as fast as I can using their mobile phone with 3 letters per key. The qwerty design is only in place because with manual typewriters one had to slow down the typists so the keys didn't get stuck. With computers one can type as fast as they want. The 'home keys' on a qwerty have a semicolon in it...who uses a semicolon anymore??

[mario-sanchez]

bad logic. the cell phone and internet are vast improvements over landlines and encyclopedias...a change in keyboard letters is not tantamount to the everyday convenience offered by cell phones and the internet. this keyboard doesn't have the pull factors to cause change. ;-)

[meisme33]

I use semicolons; you're an idiot.

[fleurya]

They didn't have to slow down typists, they just had to alternate keystrokes between hands. Actually, it made typing faster! This layout will not make typing any faster.

Actually Dvorak's layout is superior even to the qwerty layout. The problem is that the qwerty layout became far too entrenched for anyone to make the change. I had to learn Dvorak in school and was pretty fast, but had to abandon it because hardly anyone has it available. But I do remember that I was much faster on Dvorak than qwerty, even though I learned qwerty first.

[b_baggins]

I've used both Dvorak and QWERTY and got good at both. I prefer QWERTY precisely because it does a better job of balancing the typing between both hands. It makes long stints at typing more comfortable.

[CodyMac]

To "meisme33": You used that semicolon incorrectly.

[c|net Reader]

QWERTY was created to balance the load between hands but also to separate frequently used keys to slow the typists to avoid key jamming. Dvorak's layout is really odd and doesn't improve typing speed by a sufficiently large margin to justify being different, which is especially important when working on many computers, particularly those shared with others.

When it comes to new devices, especially personal devices, the choice of keyboard layout is unencumbered. I used FITALY on my Palm machines for years. It arranged the letters according to frequency of use in English. Those used most often were in the middle. Letters typically used in combination were adjacent. The result was limited stylus motion for most "typing" resulting in increased speed. Cell phones are personal devices and one rarely types on another's phone, so the choice of keyboard layout is personal. Computers used by one person who rarely interacts with any other computers is equally personal. However, if that computer is owned by a company, it can be difficult to get support for a unique keyboard layout. (In the age of USB keyboards, however, it is much easier to plug in an extra keyboard with one's preferred layout.)

This alphabetically ordered keyboard is only good for beginners. Anyone with an interest in faster typing will wish for something else. Thus, one has to wonder how long any owner will find this keyboard of use.

[b_baggins]

QWERTY was not made to slow typists down. It was made to allow typists to speed up by placing commonly used letters on opposite sides of the carriage, so that you COULD type quickly without jamming the hammers.

[PKADavid]

At CodyMac: you're wrong. Meisme33 did use the semicolon correctly. It is a replacement for ", and". Please look up the grammar rules before jumping to any conclusions.

See Rule 1: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/semicolons.asp

However, the semicolon has become outdated, and English professors suggest avoiding it.

[sanka99]

next up velcro for sneakers...woo hoo. goods for lazy people!!!

[vonscoot81]

LOL. Another indication of how society seems to be moving backwards.... *sigh*

[turtleintraining]

This would make it a tad bit difficult to WASD through a game!

[pithenumber]

You can switch to good ol' qwerty though

[c|net Reader]

Did you mean BKLM though a game?

[clem_cowsie]

The QWERTY keyboard was innovated by Charles Sholes (I think that's what his name was) in an attempt to stop people from using ABCD keyboards like this. Why? The keyboard mentioned in this article clumps together commonly used letters (e.g. R, S, T). Back in the day of typewriters, this would cause them to freeze up because the keys were stuck together from being typed on so fast consecutively by efficient typists. What that all means is, the QWERTY keyboard makes sense, and I believe took quite a bit of time to design. So, before someone writes an article it would be nice if they looked up the facts first.
Moving on, QWERTY will not be shot down that easily. Dvorak tried to do it with his Simplified keyboard, and what happened? It was written in the pages of history and forgotten. Going back to an old keyboard design like this is pretty retro of us, but it won't catch on easily. It will most likely go the way of the Dvorak's Simplified Keyboard.
No, I did not look this all up before I commented. I just know this.

[purcell429]

You do realize you make no sense right?

"Back in the day of typewriters, this would cause them to freeze up because the keys were stuck together from being typed on so fast consecutively by efficient typists."


Which means that if you learn on an ABCD keyboard from scratch, you will be faster. Sure, you and I never will get used to it, but if a 5 year old learns how to type on one, they can type a heck of a lot faster than you and I.

[fleurya]

Actually, it does make sense. The QWERTY was designed so a person would have to usually hit keys with alternating hands and bring down the likelihood of getting the typewriter stuck. The side effect was that typing speed also improved. A person can type much faster is they alternate keystrokes between hands than if they have to type out several keys or a whole word with one hand. That's still as true today with computer as it was in the 1800's with typewriters.

[SwiftAero]

Re: fleurya

Left/right hand character counts with your text show Dvorak more evenly distributed with 167/205 characters compared to 222/150 for QWERTY, and the counts reflect QWERTY removed from your response because that would unfairly play into Dvorak's favor because typing QWERTY with a QWERTY places 5 of 6 characters to the left hand.

[romodoc]

to SwiftAero

This is the dorkest comment I have seen so far, did you actually cout it, haha. Man, you are weard.

[U. Tripps]

Swift Aero has pointed out twice (with research, which is refreshing), that many posts here in favor of QWERTY left/right load balancing are misguided. That, in fact, if they were typed on a Dvorak keyboard, the left/right balance would be improved. Swift Aero has not received useful responses to her/his comments, however. This is because none of us want to give up our cherished opinions, no matter how relatively irrelevant they are. Myself included.

Swift Aero, I have a question for you, though. What about the back and forth aspect? Does Dvorak do a better job of alternating key strokes between the left and right hands? Or would you type a long string of keys with your right hand, followed by a long string with your left? That is something I would be interested to know.

[SwiftAero]

To U. Tripps. You ask a very good question ... a question that I would like to answer sometime soon. The right/left split metrics that I have provided come from a simple program I wrote to get the facts. Before the program, I researched the Dvorak keyboard. Dvorak has fans. Fans who tout that layout without the facts. The posts to this article show many QWERTY fans who hadn't done any research either. Just word-of-mouth and assumptions. But back to your question. I have to update my program to answer "important" questions like:

1) Average number of keys typed between right/left hand alternations (your question)
2) Frequency of keys typed that are different but use the same finger (a measure of inefficiency)
3) Tendancy for typing from the outside fingers in (a measure of efficiency because rolling fingers inward is inherently easier than rolling out).

To all the QWERTY fans, yes, QWERTY is more practical because it is found everywhere. While Windows provides a Dvorak keyboard layout under Regional and Language Options > Keyboards and Languages, consider heading to a library to look up a book on their computer. You're likely going to face a QWERTY layout, locked down. For people conditioned to type on a Dvorak layout, switching to QWERTY on the fly is a big challenge. Learning the key layouts is simple. Learning the key phrases for words takes conditioning. For example, with QWERTY "ion", a pattern for ending many words, is a challenging combination of keys with the right hand. With Dvorak it is left/right/left. It can be typed more quickly. After some learning on a new keyboard layout, ion becomes a phrase and not individual keystrokes. But before that, you'll find yourself lapsing into the formerly learned phrases to produce gibberish. Sticking with QWERTY is a safe bet.

I'll do more research to help settle the question of efficiency.

[Ryan_R]

Well it doesn't help those people who's password is qwerty :o)

[fooldog01]

Great idea I think, but unfortunately it teaches people a method of typing that cant translate to the other 99.9% of keyboards in the world. It would make it even harder to use those. Maybe not a problem for some people but definitely a pitfall overall.

[rpen25]

I don't think the people who might consider buying this keyboard would actually use all ten fingers to type. Most likely, they'd use two fingers at the most, and would max out at about 5-10 words per minute anyway. So, it's not about learning to type correctly, it's about finding the letters quicker, because A). they refuse to learn how to type or B). don't use the keyboard/computer enough to remember how.

[yanchineseguy]

"...this keyboard has the quick IM keys with phrases like "LOL", "CYA", and "BTW" ?!?

How lazy are these people? Those words are already abbreviated, now they're abbreviated into a single key press? C'mon!

[c|net Reader]

Why not have those keys write out, "Laughing out loud," "See ya," and "By the way?" Besides, rather than special keys, wouldn't it be better to supply a macro capability with a function key ("IM") so that IM-L is LOL, IM-C is CYA, and IM-B is BTW?

[tikoro]

Just an FYI: "LOL" and "BTW" are not abbreviations, they are acronyms. "CYA" is also considered an acronym, but really just a really messed up form of two words squashed together halfway.

[U. Tripps]

Funny. I thought CYA meant "cover your a**." I guess I've spent more time at work than on the internet. My wife will be thrilled!

[GuitarBizarre]

tikoro, I'm afraid 'LOL' 'BTW' and 'CYA' are actually not acronyms, as a defining aspect of a true acronym is it must make a recognizable word.

For example, an organization named 'R.A.C.E' would be named with an acronym. The RSPCA on the other hand, is an initialization.

[fleurya]

This is kind of sad, really. Some kid is going to learn to type on this thing and be lost when they get into the real world.

It's the Guitar Hero of keyboards.

[Someone-else]

Get your qwerty keyboard, turn it upside-down and try to type. It'll be easier than using that abcde keyboard.
I remember my early days of typing, it took me so long to find each key, I don't want to go back to that days.
The last time I went to a museum and saw old typewriters with other key layouts, they are so weird.
And I see nobody complaining about qwerty. Imagine using BLKM keys instead of WASD, for example.

[mykick22]

i would never, ever use this. I would not want to learn how to type all over again.

[tenor1977]

Speaking of Guitar Hero, using this keyboard is like playing backwards without the lefty flip on. My hands have muscle memory, so switching over at this point is pointless to retrain my fingers.

Why don't we flip a 10 key backwards to really f people up while we're at it?

[Rayvin]

It doesn't matter what layout the keys are in as long as you've had practice on it. Whether it be Dvorak, Qwerty, or this ABC board, you're the fastest on the one you've used the most and know the best. Considering virtually all keyboards are Qwerty, starting off on this ABC board would make it very difficult for someone who learned on it at home to have to go to work and/or school and be presented with a completely unfamiliar borad. Props to the people who would be fast with both (all three), though.
As for the "quick IM keys," I kind of wish keyboards had "quick domain" buttons, e.g., .com, .org, etc. Even one would do if you could use Shift, Alt, and Ctrl with it. Then again, how time saving is one or two buttons?

[Someone-else]

It seems Firefox has it, I saw it in a Techzilla daily, I think.
type the URL and press Ctrl+enter to add www. and .com, shift+enter for .org... or something like that.

[SwiftAero]

>>
Whether it be Dvorak, Qwerty, or this ABC board, you're the fastest on the one you've used the most and know the best
<<
Keyboards can be arranged to thwart typing common words ... or, like Dvorak, to assist in typing common English words. You will type faster with Dvorak if you know it as well as the QWERTY keyboard. That's the point of the Dvorak keyboard ... to enable efficient typing of the English language. On the other hand, the QWERTY keyboard was not designed that way and as a consequence, typing English is not as efficient as Dvorak.

[c|net Reader]

The key layout does matter. QWERTY balances the work of the two hands, DVORAK doesn't and neither does this ABC layout. Thus, one hand will tire and the other will be underused, one hand will frequently reach up a row and the other not, etc. If one is to learn a new keyboard layout, it ought to be designed solely with typing speed in mind. That would put the most frequently used letters in the home row and work outward. It would also put the least frequently used letters on the outside edges since the pinky fingers are not as strong. If there were a new layout that could make users markedly faster, it might succeed.

That benefit may prove insufficient however because of keyboard shortcuts. Ctrl (or Command) plus X, C, and V are reasonably mnemonic and benefit from the keys being adjacent on a QWERTY keyboard. Without their juxtaposition, using Ctrl-V no longer makes sense for paste and Ctrl-P is already claimed for printing in most applications.

All things considered, it will be very difficult indeed to supplant QWERTY.

[SwiftAero]

To c|net reader ... your first paragraph, with QWERTY removed to make the left/right hand alternations fair to QWERTY shows the following results:

Dvorak: 227 left, 275 right
QWERTY: 289 left, 213 right

In other words, your statement that Dvorak doesn't balance the work of the two hands--better than QWERTY does--is incorrect. In fact, every fan of the QWERTY keyboard who has made similar statements about QWERTY's improved balancing has typed in responses that disprove their statement by actual left/right keystroke counts. It's a consistent finding. Really.

[Papadakis27]

if you are going to use the abc keyboard, then your not going to learn how to use qwerty, what a dumb idea

[sting7k]

Just take a keyboarding class in school. You will be amazed after doing exercises how fast you can pick it up and your fingers will be flying through the keys in no time. You can do extra practice at home on IM clients working on speed talking to friends and such.

[woodygg]

yep... the dumbing down of america has officially begun.

now it will be easier to type 'ur', 'bff', etc.... that's okay, it'll just make the rest of us more marketable for jobs over minumum wage.

Yeah! Especially for those of us that can spell minimum...

Just kidding.

I agree, it had to be an American, didn't it?

[cobratronik]

Wow, what a colossally dumb idea. The people who need to use this probably drink from lidded sippy cups and can't use a fork unsupervised.

[IKON44]

I reckon the world is slowly dumbing down

And this contributes to the world getting Smaller ;)

[xxmjumpman23xx]

This is just stupid. Lazy ***** need single keys for abbreviated words? All the world's keyboards are QWERTy

[IKON44]

I was researching Keyboards about a month ago. Interesting :)