Comments on: Dell issues update for Nvidia graphics chip glitch

Dell has issued an update for a well-publicized Nvidia graphics chip glitch.

[anthonysmission]

Excellent to hear they are working to correct flaws.

Anthony Kraudelt
6897 Apache Trail
Wixom, MI 48393

[AgentSTS]

Anthony, any specific reason you keep including an address in your comments? It's rather creepy...

[pcrepairdude]

Please quit calling this a patch/fix! The only way to fix this is to recall the laptops and they know it! Nvidia has admitted they had a bad batch of GPUs,but instead of manufacturers like Dell doing the right thing and recalling them,all they have done is release this "patch",which does nothing but crank the fan up full blast. All this will do is delay the laptops death and they know this.

If I had one of the affected laptops I would put the crysis demo on a loop until it burned and then get it replaced. If you use this patch all you are doing is helping Dell to rip you off by helping them to keep your defective laptop going until your warranty runs out so you get stuck with the bill DO NOT FALL FOR IT!!!!!

[napacab]

This probably true. Dell will apologize very nicely though. They've got "corporate speak" down cold. I've bought 6 Dell computers in the last 10 years and I will never buy another.

[minonda]

Why does everyone swear by Nvidia graphics cards when clearly there is a problem? They cause crashes with Sims 2 games, they cause crashes with Vista, and now this. Even so, everyone wants Nvidia. I'm not going to buy a laptop that has a graphics card that is known, going in, to cause problems, but just try to find a laptop that DOESN'T have an Nvidia card. How there be so many true believers when this thing is clearly flawed?

[Vegaman_Dan]

There's a difference between a graphic card and a graphic chispet on a system board. On a video card you have plenty of space for thermal cooling and the OEM can mount a fan on top of the GPU. You can ensure you have all the cooling needed right there.

On a laptop system board, there is very little room at all for cooling. These units all use thermal heat pipes that extend out and are shared with the CPU's. That is then cooled by the CPU fan, but that small fan is already working hard to keep up.

Here's the typical problem: Air is drawn up through vents in the bottom of the laptop. This air is drawn across the system board by the CPU fan which then is closecoupled with the CPU heatsink fins. All air is pushed through that heatsink. After six months or so of use, that heatsink builts up dust to the point where it looks like a fine layer of felt on the fins. It can in some cases get so thick that it becomes plugged. Anything on those fins that covers them reduces the cooling capability. That means the fan has to work harder. When the heatsink is blocked no air can get out of the machine. You've got all that hot air inside the laptop and the GPU is the most temperature sensitive of the components.
Canned air blown through the heatsink can help as preventative maintenance. However if it is already too clogged, the only solution is to have the system torn down and cleaned out by a certified service authority to maintain your warranty.

[Astinsan]

Don't forget it effects HP laptops too... The chip is not flawed... They didn't think about the sm chip heating to a point of re flowing the solider connection underneath. They are not the only company with this issue... (eh ehmmm ... red ring of death... eh em.. )

[Vegaman_Dan]

nVidia is currently involved in a lawsuit regarding these graphic chipsets so you won't be hearing any official word from them while this case is in the court.

[shevaberg]

"by Astinsan July 27, 2008 8:01 AM PDT Don't forget it effects HP laptops too... The chip is not flawed... They didn't think about the sm chip heating to a point of re flowing the solider connection underneath. They are not the only company with this issue... (eh ehmmm ... red ring of death... eh em.. ) Reply to this comment "

Yes but at least MS admits the problem and extened the warranty 3 years.... sooo can nvidia do the same and admit it.... I think a company that stands by it products and helps out the consumer should be applauded.... who else stands buy there product like this? ???

[brandon101]

For the past 6 weeks (really) I have been using my "miracle support" or whatever Dell calls the support level they charge you through the roof to enjoy. I've spoken with several different technicians, and they have remotely done almost everything they could do EXCEPT LOAD THIS FIX. Of course I'm still having problems and am now to send my XPS1330 back to them, for "repairs" that "will not take more than 7 days." When the card has a problem, I get vertical lines & lose my work. The XPS1330 already runs hotter than the average hotplate. I have a small desktop fan blowing on the keyboard or I use one in back of the laptop to try to cool the thing down while I use it. So besides Dell being a mess, this is my first "Vista" experience. I am now working on an old Dell laptop with XP, and am happier with this old thing today than when I bought it!

[Astinsan]

This isn't a vista issue. This is a hardware issue.

In Vista's defense... Even thought I do not use it for other reasons unrelated to stability. Most of the issues that Vista has is related to companies complaining that they are being locked out of the Kernel. (ie: mcaffee, Symantech, the virus scanner of your choice) and device manufactures that did not have drivers ready for the OEM's (you know microsofts real customers) This forced Microsoft to keep holes open for older drivers to talk to the kernel. If you want a real vista experience... you will not be able to run many programs or use as many devices.

[Vegaman_Dan]

The problem is not with the OS. You could leave the system sitting at the BIOS setup for long enough and the problem still happens (That was one of the tests to determine the problem). The updated BIOS just went live Friday, so don't scream too loudly about it not being available prior to this. It takes a logn time to gather the affected units for testing, narrow down the problem, determine what fix can be applied, and in the case of a BIOS change, test the patch in depth to make sure this doesn't affect some other portion of the system. It's not a quick and simple fix. Since you can't change the graphic chipset, that means you have to work with what is there.

[hugo1230]

[Astinsan]

I agree... I am just saying it isn't just one company that is having the issue.. I have a few routers that had the same problem. Emails to support of those products went without a answer. The main thing I think should be said is ... the chips mounted directly on the board with soldier should be re-thought. Not Ignored.

[Vegaman_Dan]

The problem was traced to the GPU overheating and the solder joints holding it to the board failing. Mostly the symptoms would be odd colors, bars, flicking screens, garbled characters, or just flat out failure of any signal at all. This would be with both onboard and external monitors.

[blueshift9999]

How about the ones of us who have cards that already blew up? Am I going to have to spend 3 days on the phone to get my barely out of warranty laptop fixed like I did with my barely out of warranty LCD panel?

I don't know who is worse, Dell or Nvidia.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Dell is only but one of many companies who are using this particular video chipset that were affected. They are the first out of the gate to address it publically though. As long as your system is under warranty, you can still get the system board replaced as needed.

You can check out the status of your Dell system by going to:

http://support.dell.com

You will need your Dell Service Tag / Serial number located on the bottom of the laptop.

[-Hawk-]

My Inspirion 9400's video card took a dump 5 days after my 2 year warranty expired. It's been sitting in it's case for 2 months now. I called Dell today about it, and they deny anything is wrong, and of course since my laptop is not on any list of know problems I'm expected to pay $49.99 to talk to out of warranty tech support so they can tell me my video card is dead. I bootup and I get a black screen with green vertical lines, the same thing that the "affected machines" are experiencing. I've started to log all of my contacts with Dell, and I'm also looking into starting a class action lawsuit against them.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Dell has been capturing system boards from affected systems for a while now for researching into the cause. There is no way to correct the issue as this is a problem with the nVidia chipset itself. All you can do is keep replacing system boards. The BIOS fix simply speeds up the CPU fan. Yes, it will be much louder, but it should help in the lifespan of the board itself.

BTW, this is the same issue that affect Toshiba Portege M4, M400, Tecra M5, HP nc8430, and much of the Lenovot X/T 60/61 series. Those OEM's are working on their own solutions for this known issue with the GPU overheating.

[napacab]

I have an XPS1330 and a story about Dell premium service:
I was experience intermittent video glitches about 4 weeks ago so I called Dell service who determined that the mother board needed replacing (they did not mention any particular problem with video chips or otherwise). Since it was premium on-site service for which I paid they said a service tech would be out the following Monday (this was on Thursday) to replace it. Monday they informed me that the mother boards were out of stock. Long story short, it took over a week during which I explained that this was my work computer and they apologized like crazy (super sophisticated corporate speak) and told me that defective mother boards and out of stock replacement parts were "beyond their control". Really, they did say that, a supervisor no less!

The mother board was replaced 10 days after the complete failure of the machine. That mother board started exhibiting the same symptoms in exactly one week. The chat service tech wanted me to restore the system to original settings and when I question this he literally disconnected (and no I was not being abusive, I was just not following along like a sheep). So I phoned Dell support and it was determined that the mother board was failing again but this time I had to send the computer back to Dell for repair which would take up to 2 weeks. I explained that it was a work computer and that I could not be without it and asked if they could send me a loaner. They apologized like crazy again and told me "no" because I bought it as an individual rather than as a company so they "couldn't" (I think "wouldn't" a better word) send me a loaner.

So I sent it back and went to Office Depot and bought a Vaio on which I am typing this very comment. The Dell is too unreliable for travel so I've replaced it. It's back of course, sitting on my desk, a really expensive paper weight.

What Dell is good at is corporate speak. What Dell is bad at is truly understanding a customer problem and rectifying it. I'd not pay for premium support again. Indeed, I'll never buy another Dell computer.

[napacab]

I have an XPS1330 and a story about Dell premium service:
I was experience intermittent video glitches about 4 weeks ago so I called Dell service who determined that the mother board needed replacing (they did not mention any particular problem with video chips or otherwise). Since it was premium on-site service for which I paid they said a service tech would be out the following Monday (this was on Thursday) to replace it. Monday they informed me that the mother boards were out of stock. Long story short, it took over a week during which I explained that this was my work computer and they apologized like crazy (super sophisticated corporate speak) and told me that defective mother boards and out of stock replacement parts were "beyond their control". Really, they did say that, a supervisor no less!

The mother board was replaced 10 days after the complete failure of the machine. That mother board started exhibiting the same symptoms in exactly one week. The chat service tech wanted me to restore the system to original settings and when I question this he literally disconnected (and no I was not being abusive, I was just not following along like a sheep). So I phoned Dell support and it was determined that the mother board was failing again but this time I had to send the computer back to Dell for repair which would take up to 2 weeks. I explained that it was a work computer and that I could not be without it and asked if they could send me a loaner. They apologized like crazy again and told me "no" because I bought it as an individual rather than as a company so they "couldn't" (I think "wouldn't" a better word) send me a loaner.

So I sent it back and went to Office Depot and bought a Vaio on which I am typing this very comment. The Dell is too unreliable for travel so I've replaced it. It's back of course, sitting on my desk, a really expensive paper weight.

What Dell is good at is corporate speak. What Dell is bad at is truly understanding a customer problem and rectifying it. I'd not pay for premium support again. Indeed, I'll never buy another Dell computer.

[jef5623]

Dell will still have problems causing Nvidia graphics chip glitch in the 7th age of Computing?

[ecosner1111]

I'm going to run the patch. I've been fortunate that my XPS1530 has been working to my satisfaction so far. I have a 3 year warantee and I'd rather only deal with this problem once and hopefully get a better card after a workable solution is in place. They are still selling laptops with these cards and I'm wondering if you'll end up getting another defective card if you return it to Dell. Does anyone know if Dell has been replacing the cards with non-defective ones? Thx.

[jclift26]

I think I can anwer your question ecosner1111 My laptop is being replced with another vostro with same chip, I've been told the problem has been sorted with the patch, but not convinced.

I have (had ) a Vostro 1400, before I was really happy with the machine until it starting getting hot and exhibiting problems like vertical lines, crashing (ie read Graphics card). Had a technician come through on the warranty (thank god for onsite support) thought it initally was a driver issue mistakenly, then was told it was graphics card problem with motherboard. Anyway techie formatted hard drive before crash ,had no motherboard. next time came (3 days later, after the problem was not reported) with motherboard, told they weren't told to reinstall OS!!! Came with new Motherboard, then toggle Wifi switch wouldn't work. Another 2 days later came with yet another Motherboard, still same problem with wifi switch. ...Bottom line, have now hotline email address to supervisor in technical support. now have a replacement Vostro 1310 coming. I'm definitely extending my warranty, as it comes with the same chip!!! Still now worried that my motherboard is going to continuously be replaced (and out of warranty now with the "fix", I'm of the same opinion, it's to shaft the consumer so that Dell won't need to send a technician to replace the MB all over again)

PS I first reported the issue the first week of July. am only getting replacement 8 AUG! ( having parts in stock is out of their control apparantly).
PPS Sorry for the longwinded comment .

[saintckk]

Just think of this, news that OEMs like Dell and HP is getting $150 from Nvidia over the problem, now what did we, as consumer gets in return? a bloody lousy BIOS fix and have to constantly feared that one day our laptop would fail! Those of you, who got a replacement from DELL, don;t be so happy, they are replacing your unit with the same GPU from the OEMs, hopefully, one day when it fails, the warranty is over or you have to pay for extended warranty coverage! and they still get $150 over it! Not a bad deal after all and we are all suckers!

[hlywd217]

I purchased an XPS M1330 last fall. It had intermittent video problems for the longest time. I finally got fed up and called Dell earlier this year and they sent someone out and said that the video card had failed. The tech replaced the motherboard and it's been running fine ever since. I bet I was having the same issue..maybe...

Replacement motherboards for everyone?

[DellsucksBIG]

I believe that the problem is bigger than Dell or Nvidia care to admit. There have been many MANY reports of the same problem with the G71 chip in the GeForce 7900. But i have found one thing about Dell, if you end up having to buy a part from them, find out which models the part was used in. I have to buy a new video card (same problem) for an out of warranty E1705. This card was used in the 9400 ($226), the 1705 ($369) and the XPS($504) Dell reports that it is the same card, just different part numbers.(!)
On the other side, so far they have shipped me a desktop card (I let them look up the part number) now my computer has been down almost a month because they keep on changing my order and setting the delivery date back another week or two! (This is a cash order, not warranty- and the Dell parts person told me that they have 1,004 cards in stock!)
Their Customer service is terrible, all they will do is repeat over and over exactly what you can look up yourself online, they interupt you when you are talking, and hang up or transfer you to sales every chance they get. I am to the point that i don't care if they ever send the new card, i am going to make it my personel project to call them every day and give them hell, just like their junk computer has given me the past two years (BTW- third HD, second battery, and a flaky power supply- all the hard drives were refused under warranty- one they said they would replace, but I had the wrong address, (?????) so they refused to ship it!!!!)
Makes me want to buy a Mac....

[-Hawk-]

I'll be joining you with the daily calls to Dell. They suck at customer service.

[paulifaceuk]

I had gotten a inspiron 1520 with the 8600m gt. I had 3 graphic card replacements, they would not also replace the motherboard though. The third time it actually got so hot it burnt my leg!

Dell had only after hours of arguing down the phone replace me with a new laptop with a weaker graphics card 3450 ati. I was dissapointed, so more nagging and complaining (2 weeks infact) they gave me a 1555 studio with 4570 ati. UGH!! They FINALLY HELPED!!

[scottthesculptor]

I've got a precision M4300 - same quadro 360M nvidia card as the M2300.
Not on the list of effected models.
But I have to use it propped up on a fan so that the video doesn't slow down.
Or keeping the CPU from going into thermal throttle-back (shows 27% CPU usage with no programs running)
Repeatedly tried re-encoding a blu-ray movie and watching HDTV at the same - BSOD after an average of 20 minutes even with the fan. One out of five gets a thermal shutdown code from the mainboard. Does one or the other with no problems (as long as it's on the fan).
yup, WUXGA.
Have to admit that it's an extreme use of a laptop. Still aggravating and a caution towards buying another Dell laptop.
Faster and faster computers in thinner and thinner chassis - one step to far?