Comments on: Microsoft gets beautifully picky in new Mac attack

In the second TV Mac attack, Microsoft attacks the power of the Mac. As in branding power as well as computing power. Who's going to believe it?

[Dorram]

The ******** will never stop will it? Both have their uses and both are relevant to certain peoples needs. I've used both, I will still use both, and need both to get certain jobs done.

Those who attack the other side are no better than the ones who get defensive and attack back.

It's a stupid ad. At least the Mac commercials made me laugh.

Maybe it's time for people to grow up.

[kmach844]

I hear the same biased ******** whenever I go into a video games forum. Where you have children arguing over what gaming platform is better? Shall it be PS3 or XBOX 360, Wii. Macs and PC's are just that, "PERSONAL COMPUTERS". People have different tastes, needs and demands when it comes to computing. The affordable option is always Windows, 90 % of the worlds population uses Windows. I have a Mac mini and its great.

[Dorram]

Here, here. I second this.

[kmach844]

I hear the same biased ******** whenever I go into a video games forum. Where you have children arguing over what gaming platform is better? Shall it be PS3 or XBOX 360, Wii. Macs and PC's are just that, "PERSONAL COMPUTERS". People have different tastes, needs and demands when it comes to computing. The affordable option is always Windows, 90 % of the worlds population uses Windows. I have a Mac mini and its great.

[ppgreat]

Y'know, enough of this Mac vs. PC argument. I use Mac OS X because I have found over many years that it provides a superior experience to the Windows platform. Going forward, in my business, I will simply use that as a competitive advantage.

'Nuff said, to quote Stan Lee.

[bonesbautista]

Regardless of the Mac vs PC BS - I own each and they've both got their strengths, the call-out by bloggers of the "Lauren" ad just leaves me feeling that any of these ads are just staged scripts and on Monday I'm going to report the "Lauren" ad to the Oregon State Attorney General for false and misleading advertising.

The ads just set the stage for the obvious and offer nothing new for fodder among the trolls posting above this post.

[superduperuser]

There's simply a lot more software and hardware for PCs. And Macs are more expensive. That Macs tend to be less hit by viruses is the same reason they have less software. Obscurity. Why make a virus that can't spread because there aren't any chance of there being more Macs around? (Yes, this is 'security by obscurity', though 'security by obscurity' is not as bad as some comp sec people have made it out to be.)

If you really want to go cheap, however, get a PC with a free OS. MS is, of course, a hypocrite hitting on the price factor of Macs. Their software is very expensive. Office, required for many functions, is expensive. (Thank goodness for Sun's Office suite.)

This is really not a complex issue.

Apple made a good move moving away from their old OS model, but they are still missing key strategic steps to win out against Windows PCs. As long as PCs remain more inexpensive, for one, they find it hard to compete. This is not some vast riddle.

What it is is an emotional issue for defensive Mac users because they are in the minority. So, issues like the reality of why they are less likely to be hit by viruses is because of their obscurity is removed and they go into arguments implying it is by some sort of magic they are less likely to be hit by virii.

[OS11]

no, it has nothing to do with only 60 million Macs is "too few" to get hit by a virus... it has ALL to do with Macs are based on Unix so they aren't subject to the weak way Windows was constructed.

and no, it's not about being "competitive"... Apple could lower their standards and lower prices tomorrow and gain 30% more share... but they control the top 10% of the market... and that's OKAY... they don't desire to cheapen up the user experience just to market share... that's not who they are... they build the best for people that want the best... it's really that simple.

[pithenumber]

@OS11
its market share, not number

[Red_Mond]

What a bunch of iBull.

[mikestatic1]

If this guy is so picky, why did he waste his money on a PC?

[chulk90]

To all people here:

I've been reading all the comments posted here, and let me tell you what is true and what is not. I can say this because I have been developing cross-platform softwares and have been involved in many important joint projects (between corporations, and corporation-university).

First off, yes, Mac users have a limited choice because Mac's share is really small compared to that of PC.

It's the simple principle of market competition. The bigger the pie is, the more competition there is. Also, if the competition is fierce, consumers will be given more choices.
Therefore, yes, PC users have more choices, and some popular programs like Firefox don't run well on Macs. Firefox runs much faster and shows much more efficiency on Widnows platform.

However, it doesn't mean that Mac users are less productive than Windows users. Macs have few but powerful tools. Safari is fast, and dashboard and spaces are just wonderful. And, if you exclude the Numbers, iWorks suite is very productive and easier to use than Office suite. (Speaking of Numbers, Numbers is easy, but doesn't offer much features. We sometimes call it a "kiddie tool.")


Second, Mac is more secure than Windows.

As of now, Mac is more secure than Windows. But if you look at the code itself, Windows is more secure than Mac. Then why do we generally say that Mac is better than Windows in terms of security?

It's simple: there aren't many Mac users.

Virus and Malware developers want their "babies" to spread quickly, and to a large number of computers. From this point of view, Mac isn't a very attractive choice. Also, the primary purpose of developing trojan and other malwares is to make money by stealing identification. Why would they develop codes that will work on only a small number of computers? They can spend that time on developing a software that will penetrate into a much larger number of computers.

There was a pwn20 hacking contest last Month in Chicago, IL. In the contest, Safari was hacked in just one minute, while IE8 BETA took much longer time to be hacked. Also, in a contest two years ago, Macbook Air was hacked in just two minutes, using the Remote Disc feature.

I want to tell you. THERE ARE MALWARES TARGETED AT MAC OS X's. That's why there are Mac security tools, such as Norton Antivirus 11. But so far, there hasn't been a single effective Mac virus.

Why doesn't Mac have any virus? Think about it. MS patches its Windows products almost every two weeks, and Linux is patched by millions of developers around the world. But Mac is just NOT. Did you know that Mac's source is more closed than that of Windows? People blame on Microsoft for not sharing their source code, but Apple is far worse. We developers sometimes get really frustrated when we face this obstacle.


Thrid, yes, Macs and PCs have been identical hardwares, since Apple abandoned its IBM-made PPC platform.
But it's impossible for PC users to install Mac OS X on their computers, because Macs use EFI instead of traditional BIOS. In theory, EFI is much more efficient than BIOS, but we have not needed that efficiency, so far.

But since they are identical hardwares, there have been numerous attempts by hackers to install OS X on PCs. The OS X hacked for PC installation is called hackintosh, and hackintosh has been quite successful. The results prove that EFI isn't a big deal, and many people are thinking EFI was done to prevent PC users from installing OS X.


And yes, Macs are unreasonably more expensive than PCs. Calculations have shown that Apple is charging 40~60% premium on its products. If you assemble a PC with same specs of the bottom-level iMac ($1299.99), you can make it for less than $600, including a monitor, mouse, and everything. One of the Simpsons episodes once criticized this policy of Apple, and its "fans." (don't take this to the wrong way. I'm a fan of Wozniak. I even voted for him for "Dancing with stars.")


I wrote this article to demystify some rumors out there. My conclusion is, yes, Macs are more secure and reliable, because the crackers think it's a waste of time to develop viruses or malwares for Macs, whose number is small. But yes, Mac users don't have much choice as Windows users, and that's why many people install BootCamp or VMware on their Macs.

And last, Macs are much more expensive than PCs. But if you want to buy a Mac, go ahead. Apple has successfully established itself as a premium brand. If you buy a Mac, you may help increase your self-esteem level and people will be a bit jealous.

But it doesn't mean that Macs are superior. HP gives you many choices. Look into HP's products line-up.

[XARTRH]

I'm a Mac user, who also works on PCs, but prefer Mac, iWorks' works and I do use it on occasion, but for the most part, I simply use and prefer MS Office for Mac. iWorks is compatible with MS Office programs, not all, but the most common (Word, Excel... ). MS Office for Mac and for Windows works on both OS. MS has some excellent software, but their operating systems are questionable.

[nonicks]

Dear Chris,

It's not about what critics like you feel or write in their personal/public blogs.

I read your comments and then same comments from Apple Insider.

Ditto same commentary.

If MS had only you guys as it's market, that company would have been into ashes years ago.

Well, coming to the point on latest ad.

I, as a commoner (not a critic or not running a campaign to malign one and praise one), felt good about the new MS ad. It made it's point. Very nicely, by putting the "CORRECT" facts in place. The guy said the right things and "no lies".

I could agree with the ad.

Another thing Chris, your article was supposed to be about the ad, where all you wrote about "how you felt"

When I am on C|Net news.com site, I am here to read IT news - unbiased. Not to read about your personal hygine.

So please keep your personal things off the site and be a better blogger/tech writer.

Appreciate your efforts.

Cheers.

BTW, I liked the ad, and apparently, most people who are into real thing, tend to agree with me.

For guys like who fall in the category of "a jug with round base - which can keep dwindling in whatever direction" - god bless ya.

[OS11]

yes, the ancient apple vs pc war will likely never end. i'm a 30 year veteran of these verbal skirmishs and it really all boils down to this:

PC's are really the old IBM industrial monopoly, they are deeply rooted in businesses and blue collar factory work. They are "mechanical" and appeal to persons still enamored with levers and gears. They tend to be used by people that like to tinker, enjoy puzzles and complexity. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a more turn of the 19th century mindset where noise, blinking lights and size equals power.

Apple's machines are very Zen... asian influenced, less is more, silent. They are also much more modern devices that have evolved so far as to strip away the complexity so people can actually get things done... without worrying about the "computer aspect" of the machine. They attract artists, dreamers, educators, business leaders and scientists. They are built for people with high visual & auditory acuity... and little patience for error.

So in essence it's a "tug of war" between old vs new... complexity vs simplicity. Neither side will ever be truly right. PCs keep society firmly grounded which is a good thing, but Macs pull society forward to think differently, question the status quo... innovate.

So that sums up why these flame wars sprout up from time to time... take care and enjoy your Mac.

[sleepepro]

Less is more? tell that to the University students whose monitors I see are littered with Dashboard apps that they don't need, or the fact that more of the tech guys actually prefer windows because it gives them options. Artists? pure BS I can show you tons of ppl who run Windows and churn out better stuff than Mac users. Here's a little thing you got screwed up OPTIONS breed creativity NOT LIMITATIONS. Ask that to any creative person and they'll agree more options more creativity. Complexity VS Simplicity is an awful argument because right now my Windows is far less complicated and looks a lot better than anything a Mac can do and all it took was research and time. Hell a friend of mine got a mac then I showed him what you can actually do with XP and he regrets spending that much money on a laptop. And Mac will lose money if they don't make lower-end laptops, right now there is a gradual movement towards netbooks because most people are just average users not looking for everything and as long as Mac charges their massive amounts they'll lose money

[OS11]

ah, sleepepro... you sure packed a lot of ignorance into your post. actually, Macs offer more options since they run ALL software made today... they aren't limited like Windows is... sure you can beat your head against the wall and create art with a PC, but it causes headaches for no reason.

apple is far from "losing money"... they now have more money than microsoft which is kinda funny... apple doesn't have to lower prices or make a netbook... what would be the point?

you're just bitter you don't yet have a Mac... someday you will... so don't worry...

[Stimus]

Nice take on the roots of on the PC/Mac wars. Of course, at the end of the day, price drives market share and the upcoming Netbook revolution will likely make the issue moot. PC/Macs will become specialized tools for the relative few who need or want more than net surfing or document creation.

I like my Gateway lappie running Vista but my next machine will be a Netbook.

[nonicks]

Dear Chris,

It's not about what critics like you feel or write in their personal/public blogs.

I read your comments and then same comments from Apple Insider.

Ditto same commentary.

If MS had only you guys as it's market, that company would have been into ashes years ago.

Well, coming to the point on latest ad.

I, as a commoner (not a critic or not running a campaign to malign one and praise one), felt good about the new MS ad. It made it's point. Very nicely, by putting the "CORRECT" facts in place. The guy said the right things and "no lies".

I could agree with the ad.

Another thing Chris, your article was supposed to be about the ad, where all you wrote about "how you felt"

When I am on C|Net news.com site, I am here to read IT news - unbiased. Not to read about your personal hygine.

So please keep your personal things off the site and be a better blogger/tech writer.

Appreciate your efforts.

Cheers.

BTW, I liked the ad, and apparently, most people who are into real thing, tend to agree with me.

For guys like who fall in the category of "a jug with round base - which can keep dwindling in whatever direction" - god bless ya.

[the_unknown_architect]

Ok so i see both sides of this argument and i find it so trivial. its funny that i see so many people on this article going back and forth on why this argument is wrong and no this one is. let me break this down into a simple truth.

If you have never done any serious programming, ever worked (as in repaired) both suspects; pc and macs, if you have never used and owned both; pc and mac, then essentially i won't even read your response to what i have to say, so here goes.
Essentially we a "fanboism" which is fine, and while i enjoy using macs because to give credit they are easy. so easy any user can pick one up and begin using it; Internet, email, Music, pictures. I also enjoying using a pc, they are also easy. any user can pick one up and begin using it; internet, email, music, pictures.
What begins to separate them is the software that comes with them. Microsoft has made leaps to close this gap and really hasn't done it yet although its silly because they have 100 times the resources and time to do so. So forth the argument that buying a mac at the higher price yields a better software package, this is true, to a ever closing extent.
What no one seems to understand is this: how operating systems works, in essence how they are created, because if you did then you wouldn't argue either point, unless you are a fan boy. Both OS are solid and work as expected. unfortuntly one OS is at a severe disadvantage. they are both created equal, but one now has to be optimized to work with any hardware it comes across, it has to be opened to work with a multitude of programing that will never be touched or even written by the authors of that OS. While the other is written very explicitly for its hardware. Thus One OS has less to support than the other.
Continuing if Microsoft ever opted to follow the apple model they would instantly be smacked down by all sides and bared from being extremely specific about what hardware their os ran on or was liscenced for that matter. The simple truth is that if MS were to design their operating system around 1200 dollars of the best hardware available and sell it to you i doubt it would have any problems.
What is to be seen in the future as apple shares grow is going to be a battle by apple to keep their operating model. if they begin to grow to a very substantial amount they will be forced to open their software to a multitude of programmers and hardware designers and stability goes away.

As far as compaitability. i actually chuckled at someone saying Macs were as compaitable as PC's with software. please go work at a retail store that sells macs or pcs or both and tell me what you think then, especially when you tell a customer that and then they come back later and bite your supervisors head off. Macs have some great software that PC's really don't run as well or even have, but really the software realm is in PC's, especially games; any designer will tell you that.
In closing most customers are going to buy what they are comfortable with, and when consulting with a client either solution is viable, it isn't until they tell you what it is exactly they want out of their experience that you can then make a recommendation. while most general users can use either suspect with no draw backs, most general users do not want to spend the money on a mac to be a general user, thats just economics. If Microsoft took apples approach and was allowed to sell only specific machines with their OS, half the PC industry would sink because not everyone has a budget for 1000+ dollar machines.

2 more things i wanted someone to look into because i don't have time. I had a Mac tech tell me that he saw statistics that showed Macs had a greater percentage of hardware failures over PCs i can't verify if its true just something for someone to dig up.
The second was that best buy has been informed that apple is going to stop expanding into their stores due to a down turn in sales across the board. they are re-assessing their stores and their partners a the moment before further expanding. so apple was on the rise but they are beginning to feel the pain as well. its really sad i was really hoping apple would continue to take market share and really force open competition and drive creativity out of control when it comes to OS design, we will see what the future holds.

oh and uhhh /rant

[ds_gray]

People, you're arguing endlessly about a TOOL. This is akin to arguing over which hammer is better; claw or ball-peen.

As someone who has been involved in the computer trade since the PDP-8, I come to this argument without bias, having used Macs back when the OS's were just called 'System', and MS-DOS. Even then, these were TOOLS to get work done. Which one works 'better' is entirely a matter of personal perspective, and after listening to tradesman discuss the finer points of tools created to strike nails, the hammer metaphor fits well.

Agree to disagree (and grow up a little) to keep things civil.

It IS intriguing that Microsoft did not tout its 'product' in the ad, though. They showed us a box - a PC - not Windows. When Apple shows its wares, its all theirs - the hardware, the software, its their 'product'.

Microsoft isn't selling something you can hold - like a hammer - they're selling a brand, and this is brand marketing, pure and simple. They're equating a 'PC' to their brand - Microsoft. Done. They own 'PC' (Claw) and Apple owns 'Mac' (ball-peen). Now go hit something with 'em. You'll feel better.

[Angmarr]

Let the apple fanboys whine all they want, its ass kicking time!

[9poon]

This is funny, you guys sound exactly like the gear heads from high school. "My Chevy will blow the doors off your Ford anytime".

[artstate]

what the hell is wrong with microsoft making an ad??? nothing! good for them, finally participating in the "race" (or whatever you want to call it). This ad is just as legitimate as the Apple's mac vs pc ads. They both hit key points while generalizing pretty much everything about the other company. It's funny to watch, it's what competition is all about. In the end, it should make both companies work harder.

I have both a macbook pro 15 inch and a dell xps m1530 (i develop sofware that i need to compile on both machines) and ironically they have the same specs (2.6 ghz, 4gb ram, 320 gb (dell has 250gb) Hdd, 512 Nvidia). i find that the mac usually gives me more trouble while working. too many things just "unexpectedly quit" but mostly just glitches (temporarily freezes... many times)... Windows can be pretty gay too though with their UAC and unexpected behavior with windows explorer.

Point is, both have ups and downs. do not criticize microsoft for these campaigns. apple's ads are just as hostile!!!!! only... apple plays quirky music and presents it with justin long to make everything seem o.k.

[3rdalbum]

If you want to buy a Mac, go right ahead and buy it. Then in three years when Apple releases Mac OS 10.8, your computer will be too old to run it. And since your Macintosh is effectively a closed hardware platform, you won't be able to upgrade it to make it capable of running OS 10.8. So you'll buy a new one. And then a few years later, you'll buy another new Mac.

I know, because I used to be a Mac user.

When Ubuntu 11.04 comes out, my PC won't need any upgrading to run it. And if it did need upgrading, I'd simply be able to swap out the part that's too old and chuck in a new equivalent - much cheaper than buying a whole new premium-priced computer, and much less hassle than transferring all my data and programs to a new machine.

[OS11]

ah, 10.8 is over 6 years away, buying a new machine would be very normal by that time. and you forgot to add that a Mac in 6 years will still worth quite a bit, a linux box... not.

and you clearly never were a Mac user... transferring all your data to a new Mac is incredibly easy... attach a cable between the two, hit a couple "okay" screens.. and 10-50 minutes later your new mac has all your old data. easy, no hassle required.

face it, linux is for dweebs.

[Houstman]

There is one single reason I will never buy a Mac: For $1500+ a right click and a scroll wheel better damn-well be standard! In the morning, how am I supposed to read the news and open a new window/tab on a Mac when I have a bowl of cereal in one hand? For $1500 bucks my computer better come with a host of mouse buttons.

[OS11]

Macs have come with 4 buttons and a scroll wheel / ball for years... so it's time for you to move up to a Mac. And the price isn't $1,500... it's more like $579 and $989...

[Houstman]

OS11:

First, the cheapest MacBook is $999, the cheapest desktop (iMac) is $1199 and those two could even load one contemporary video game at a decent graphics setting. Four "buttons" on a one button mouse--that if you rest your fingers, even for a second, it is going to reset your cursor or pointer--is bull. Some of us actually value tactile response.

[jz33040]

LOL at all these worried mac users because microsoft is even daring to point out the truth. I think what apple fans should worry about is if microsoft, with all the money they have, started to stoop down to the level of deceptive mac ads. apple would be in trouble if they did. Apple has made a majority of it's sales off of making fun with "i'm a mac" at microsoft and their ads aren't not even close to being factual. So I really can't blame microsoft for hitting back with some realistic comparisons. In the last 30 years since I've had my first apple, I've noticed this trend and it seems like apple has gotten worse in the last decade. Nearly every advantage a mac users list tends to be based in some logic this is just a tad off from reality. They either say it's got higher quality parts, or the os can protect itself against viruses, blah blah. Fact is, macs ARE pc's and nearly all the same parts. And the os is truly over rated. If osx covered 90% of desktops tomorrow, instead of windows, it would be eaten alive by viruses over night because it's just not ready for that. But deceptive mac ads would have you believe otherwise.

And for the mac users that say it won't happen, think again. apple has already begun to suggest that osx users get anti-virus, and they only have 10% of desktops!!! Can you imagine if they covered 90% of them? -- If you shop correctly for a pc and keep it up to date etc, mac's don't hold a candle to them.

I built a 3.8ghz QQ last year for $520, ($670 with 8800gt) and my macbook pro doesn't even come close to what an apple can do, desktop or not. Then the big thing with apple is that they tend to brain wash people into thinking you have to have one if you want to do good editing. That's all apple has! If they lost that distinction, they'd be in trouble. But I found that my pc can render video more quickly and with more editing packages to choose from. So FCP imovie08 are really no big deal. Check out davedays on youtube. He doesn't need a mac either. - I can do every effect imaginable as well. And for my recording studio? I use PC as well. My point is. If you shop wisely, look around and what is out there, there is NOTHING you can't do, and do well with a PC, and for less money. It has nothing to do with quality. In fact. If you spend the same money for a pc, you'd get something even better. I have a pc that cost over $1200 and it has more hardware for my recording studio than any mac will ever have at that price. So it's ok for people to get macs. I have one. BUT, when people start thinking they are more expensive because the are of such staggeringly higher quality blah blah blah.. They are going a little too far..

[OS11]

Apple has more money than Microsoft just so you know... 29 billion vs 24 billion...

And Apple does NOT recommended virus software, that was from a reporter a few months who got confused.

The only "same" parts are HD, RAM and some video cards... the rest... processor, logicboards, cameras, keyboards, cases, monitors and OS are all Apple sources or engineered... that's why Macs run better and last much longer than PCs.

[pithenumber]

@OS11
hate to burst your bubble, but the processor is the same
a Core 2 Duo P Series will always be a Core 2 Duo P Series

Apple recommended AV once, then quickly took it down the the media found out