Comments on: Microsoft gets beautifully picky in new Mac attack

In the second TV Mac attack, Microsoft attacks the power of the Mac. As in branding power as well as computing power. Who's going to believe it?

[Mark_Anderson]

Hi, Chris.

We call this type of thing 'advertising'.

In 'advertising' the object is to make the product you're trying to sell a more attractive proposition than the alternatives. However, as some of your customers may have bough the alternatives in the past you don't want to call them an utter piece of crap because you'll just **** them off. Instead you damn them with faint praise.

I hope this post has been instructive. Certainly it has more substance than your witterings about jeans and haircuts.

[rapier1]

The mysteries of advertising seem to be lost on our outraged blogger.

[FutureGuy]

And he is supposedly an "award-winning creative director "

Hey ?creative director? next time try blogging on this, your super expensive gold plated Mac is the most exploitable platform
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941
"It?s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don?t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don?t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you?d find in Windows.

It?s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn?t have anti-exploit stuff built into it."

[lil-yankee]

@ futureguy
If you want to sound like a serious response, make your reading more pleasing. Go to school, finish what you should have started and come back with something digestible. Your grammar reminds me of windows;

[iertry]

@futureguy

Firefox on the mac is the same codebase as Firefox on Windows and Linux. It is now easier to exploit just because it is running on a mac. Also there only a few known viruses for the mac and only one or two in the wild. The conflicker virus (the one currently in the news) has infected millions of WINDOWS PC's.

Also what does your post have to do with the advertisement? And as @lil-yankee says, learn to type properly.

[bowlie1]

This ad confuses me. Who or what is the target audience?

Is it dedicated Mac users? I don't see the content moving them. They've already made up their minds.

Is it unhappy Mac users? Don't see this - if they are unhappy they've already decided they are going back to a PC.

Is it dissatisfied PC users? I don't see the content moving them either. Being dissatisfied means that they will probably take this ad with a grain of salt - they aren't looking for cool, they want something that works.

How about happy PC users. This one's a maybe, perhaps this group needs to be reassured that they made the right choice - but if they are already happy ...

So what's left? - Those in the middle, both Mac and PC users. So they are hoping to keep their PC's users and move the Mac users. Does this ad work for either? I don't think so.

So bottom line, to me at least, is MS is spending a lot of money on an ad that's not going to accomplish much. When Apple pokes at PC it's cute, when PC does it they come across as a 60k pound gorilla.

btw I just upgraded from Tiger to Panther, sorry I waited so long. Not looking forward to going to the office tomorrow and back to my PC.

Is it happy PC users?

[Mark_Anderson]

"This ad confuses me. Who or what is the target audience?"

Everybody.

[jabberwolf]

Its not to BASH ********, but show them for being just that.

It's to get people to think, if they need something or not.
Soooooooo many ******** (And yes there are macusers that are not stupid but most are) never bother to question Apple's answers or other ******** answers.

They call PC users fanatics but windoze users dont give a rats ass about brand loyalty, they simply get work done for the least amount of $.

There are sooo many mac forums that think there is a conspiracy against them, and it's comical to the rest of us. And yes most think Mac users are complete raving idiots because of this. For instance, the conspiracy against the iphone in businesses.

Most viruses are meant are for the PC. Why? In most security challenges, OSX is the first to be hacked, so why is it PCs that get viruses. Simply virii propagation applies to real viruses as it does to computer ones. I you have many that can carry and transmit in a crowd, you spread your virus. If you have 9 in crowd of 91 people( that cant carry or trasmit the virus) the chances of those 9 getting infected are slim !

Or how about Work related. Do you know how many think that macs are the best for photo creation but forget that most programs are cross platform? Oh and for REALLY large files in photoshop, you will be using Vista 64 and NOT OSX. So with the money you saved NOT buying a mac, you bought 8 more gb of ram, and are using CS4 in 64 mode in Vista 64. So if you REALLY are a professional, you'd chose something to get your work done and not go with fanaticism.

If they get people to actually THINK and ASK QUESTIONS, then PCs have a good advertisement because many switch to Macs because they simply dont.

[seven7dust]

@ jabberwolf
Dude chill out with the hate on Mac users !
it's simple Windows isn't for everybody !
you may like it but many others like me prefer OSX and Linux to some extent
for me using Windows feels like living in the stone ages
so no matter how good or cheap a PC is if it ships with Windows
I wont buy it ! Simple as that
No amount of Microsft ads are going to help
unless they Improve their Product called Winodows !

[FutureGuy]

@lil-yankee, @iertry: Good move, deflect the argument. Do you ******** realize that most of the comment was a copy paste from zdnet? The only reason Mac has few viruses is because has a very low market share, your argument would make DOS an even safer platform.
?The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don't do. You don't have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you'd find in Windows.? What part of this do you not understand?

[robotaholic]

hey if you upgraded to panther from leopard, when is bobcat comin' out? hmm

[auramac]

Unfortunately, many people, which definitely includes PC users, are not tech-savvy at all. Familiarity breeds contempt, but it also creates fear of change. There are some dumb Mac users, but most Mac users have done their research and know what they're getting into- afterwards, we're simply hooked. There is no better choice.

This guy should've bought a Macbook.

[Assais]

Dude don't be a m0ron, 99% of people who buy Mac$$$ are completely illiterate computer users that buy it because of stupid iPods and a petty design. Most of these users use nothing more than Safari, iTunes and perhaps Mail if they know how to set up a IMAP account on it. That's the bulk of Apple users who fall for Apple's tricks of "virus-free, $500 more" computers, even though Macs and PCs share the same internal components. Microsoft is giving Apple a run for its money with these ads. It was about time.

[tm_anon]

@Assais

Before you tell someone not to be a m0ron, make sure you're not proving yourself to be an idiot.

Every person I've ever known to buy a Mac was a Windows user prior to it. They each had a reason for buying Mac beyond just "ooooh pretty".

Actually, one of my friends is about to buy her first Macbook because her current laptop has crashed (BSOD) several times in the past 2 years. It's an OEM machine, Windows preinstalled, not past its warranty yet. Oh, funny thing, she's using HP.

The reason most Mac people use Safari is because it's better than Windows. Of course, lots of Mac users use Firefox or Camino as well. iTunes works better on Mac so I don't fault them for using it. When on Windows, I use Winamp instead of iTunes because it works better, but on Mac, I'd use iTunes too.

By the way, how many Windows users do you know who can set up their own account on Exchange? I can answer that question very easily. Counting on fingers, I won't even have to lift my hands. There might be 2 in my entire state who can competently set up an email account through Exchange.

Now, the only areas you've mentioned that have anything based on reality is that Apple is virus free and that it costs more. Of course, if you bring in a side by side comparison, including software, between a Macbook and a Laptop from any other OEM, they're very comparable.

Pretty sure you're going to complain and try and say that Mac is not virus free. Do you even know the difference between a virus and other forms of malware? If you did, you'd see that Macs are virus free. There's malware written for them, no viruses though. Actually, the only malware I've heard of recently for Mac is a trojan that required the user to install it before it could do anything.

Like viruses in Linux, the trojan wouldn't exist without each user creating it. Of course, unlike viruses in Linux, the trojan didn't have to be built from the ground up by each user.

Now, please tell me, just how is Microsoft giving Apple a run for its money with these ads? They're not even talking about the software.

[ZetaZeta_]

Assais is an obvious troll.

The Mac OS X + hardware package that Apple offers functions. PCs function. Everything functions just fine,
The problem I have is when people bash someone else for choosing a product other than the one they chose.

[kahgee]

99% of people that buy computers (at least any type or PC wintel or MAC) are not tech savvy at all...

[rwm72]

Agreed kahgee. As much as 99% of users are not tech savvy. Many believe they are, but reading a brochure or webpage on a product does not automatically qualify you as tech savvy.

If you are an IT professional, developer or programmer, Windows PCs will present no great difficulties in most cases. However, 99% of the world's computer users do not have this knowledge or expertise. And most just don't care either. They just want something to do their work, and help them at home. So really, they just want a computer that is "user" friendly, rather than "administrator" friendly.

My work is a good case in point. We have 100 people in the organization, yet I am one of maybe 5 people who are considered to have any computer knowledge, outside of the basic software programs staff use to complete their work tasks. But I am really just another dumb user, perhaps just closer to the top of the pile. Yet many of my colleagues own PCs rather than Macs, because of the negative PR spread by our IT department regarding all things Apple. So they end up buying a PC for home, and without the safety net of IT, and their Windows and set up knowledge, they find it too hard or lose patience and interest doing anything away from work. Some are lucky enough to have kids old enough to work out the difficulties for them. If their kids don't know the answer or aren't old enough yet, they are stuffed, and the PC sits in the corner gathering dust.

I know many IT staff find it hard to understand why 99% of users are dumb, but most users just want an easy to use system that does not involve much of a learning curve. While Windows does not have a steep learning curve, it is still not "user" friendly in the way Macs are. Away from work, and the safety net of IT, most users would find Macs far less intimidating, and actually enjoyable to use, and importantly much easier to set up. At work, well, you use whatever the company's IT people choose to set up for you.

All of my friends who have switched to mac actually use their computers so much more than ever before because they feel freed from most of the fear of stuffing up or not understanding what to do with Windows PCs. Plus they all love iLife, which for them turns professional and semi-pro skill sets into great quality apps that the average dumb user can use with confidence.
All you tech savvy posters can blast my friends and I for being dumb users and that is fine, but we are representative of at least 95% of the world's population, indeed maybe as much as 99%. If you are in the 1% of people who know how successfully set up PCs running Windows then great, stick with it, because you are the people that make Windows workable. For the rest of us, at home anyway, Macs should be considered, even at $500 more. After all, $500 sounds a lot until you consider ease-of-set-up (priceless), iLife, and of course OSX. Not to forget award winning Industrial Design, good resale and reliability with their hardware.

Ironic perhaps that 95% of the world uses Windows, but 95% of the world also has little or no tech savvy and struggles with set up. tm_anon makes a good case in point regarding Exchange.

[davemac2009]

To Assais

I switched over to a Mac four years ago from a PC to go into the graphics and print industry with it after having done some very careful research on specs and programs, etc. for what was best suited for me and my professional needs and am now making a six figure salary with it in the industry.

I guess I'm a "m0ron" for doing that.

Thank You so much for the kind compliments!

[kevinalton]

yeah I agree with you....it's about time Microsoft attempted a good commercial. They sure took forever to counter those Apple comercials.....but still in a less amount of time my trusty new Windows unit. Yeah, I'm a huge Windows fan....it is simply such an awesome computer operating system. I love how it always has to get those cool virus protection updates, and then after how much faster it is. And I agree with that guy on this too; people that use a Windows based machine MUST be so much smarter than all those poorly educated folks who choose to use an Apple computer, simply because there are so many more Windows based computer out there and there are so many smart people just walkling around the country in general.....all those people must be Windows users too just like me!! Thats awesome!! You rock Microsoft! Keep on building the very best computer operating system the worlds ever seen. LOL!!

[Renegade Knight]

@ tm_anon

Windoze User here. Tried mac. Next PS Will be a dual booting Hackintosh. Can't stand the crapy design of the MacBook. OS X is ok though I miss certain dedicated keys that make the Mac Far less efficient. But there is a learning curve. As for OS Stablity I hate to say it because I really, really don't like MicroSoft but Vista's more stable. More irony, it's more stable on my Mac than OS X.

[jhoeforth]

When Apple makes an ad bashing Windows, everything is perfectly right with the world. When MS HIT a nerve with an advertisement bashing Apple - all hell broke loose. ******** calling foul, questioning everything about the ad: the actors, the script and pretty much everything that they want to criticize.

[NorthWakeDad]

I use both at work and a Mac at home. Definite Mac fanboy, I confess. That said, its *about time* MS came out with some ads like this. They're great, and well-timed now that PC prices have nosedived again and Mac prices are floating steady.

[Chris Grayson]

It all depends on what you're looking for and what you need to do.

Some software is only available on a PC, some industries (advertising and design related fields) are entirely standardized on the Mac hardware platform-- As it has been widely reported in the Advertising trade press, CP+B who produce these ads for Microsoft are entirely an Apple platform agency (and I'm sure many of Apple's subcontractors are running their businesses on PCs).

For fanboys to claim that Macs are always better machines for all people in all circumstances is silly.

But by the same token, claims from PC users that Mac users are only paying a premium for a logo is ridiculous. It's phony class-warfare marketing. The guy driving the Chevy hates the guy driving the BMW and will make all sorts of absurd rationalizations for why he's smarter for not spending so much money on a car just to have a status symbol. Whatever.

Apple doesn't sell on price. Neither does BMW. But both of their prices are realistic within their respective markets.

Microsoft wants to play WalMart style marketing because we are in a recession. Probably not a bad strategy.

[fshepinc]

Hey! Wait a minute! We can't have intelligent, thoughtful replies like this around here. It might raise the whole tone of the place -And then where would we be???

[tm_anon]

Now if MS could just mention software in one of these ads.

[ZetaZeta_]

Because Apple only advertises features of their OS/hardware?

Just as how in Mac ads, being critical of Vista was essentially the same thing as supporting Macintosh, Microsoft selling PCs is pretty much the same thing as selling Windows.

[yonayo]

Well said, but strategy will not affect taste. The marketing will sell PC's to those who planned to buy PC's anyway. Those who really want a Mac will do what it takes to get one.

[tm_anon]

@ZetaZeta

While some of that is true, the Mac ads did point out some real world problems. Sure the problems were blown out of proportion for the majority of users but they were still real world problems.

They also talked about the hardware as well as the software. In these MS ads, they haven't mentioned the software once. One of the biggest selling points and one of the major reasons for computer returns is software.

It's great that they think the OEMs have decent hardware (several do have decent hardware) but when making an ad for Windows, shouldn't Windows be mentioned?

[monkeyfun14]

@tm_anon

But these problems the MAC ads point out happen just as much as they happen on a PC.

Its a rare case scenario to ever get a BSOD most users will never see one in person in there lifetime same goes for kernel panics on MAC.

Apps lock up and crash on mac to if they didn't we wouldn't have a force quit command on the dock now would we?

[Renegade Knight]

Like you point out price is a marketing strategy. Apple charges a higher price. Their Laptops are at the higher end of the featurs so a higher price is fair. But when you get down to the line item comparison you pay more for the same thing with Apple. OS X is better than XP, but it's essetially tied with Vista for features and what it does.

What does the extra money buy you? Good support and an Obnoxious glowing Apple Logo (on your Macbooks). The support is worth a bit more. But that glowing apple?

[merlefisher]

Quoting Chris Grayson

"For fanboys to claim that Macs are always better machines for all people in all circumstances is silly.
But by the same token, claims from PC users that Mac users are only paying a premium for a logo is ridiculous. It's phony class-warfare marketing. The guy driving the Chevy hates the guy driving the BMW and will make all sorts of absurd rationalizations for why he's smarter for not spending so much money on a car just to have a status symbol. Whatever.
Apple doesn't sell on price. Neither does BMW. But both of their prices are realistic within their respective markets."

I'm don't know this for sure but I'm wondering, Does the guy driving the chevy feel jealous of the guy driving the BMW and so feel the need to convince himself that BMW is just about the status? Maybe its the same with PC users... (I'm not one)

[Dalmatian28]

This whole Microsoft - Apple "thing" is getting old. It has actually started going on my nerves long time ago. When will people just "move on" and just use any "junk" that they want without trying to convert everyone else that doesn't think the same way! It is sad that writers without any talent are fueling this competition. This is tech-writers version of "sex" that use to be used by other talentless writers in the past! I didn't know why most of the tech-writers prefer Apple over Microsoft until I heard that most of the review units do NOT need to be returned back to Apple or Microsoft. Apple gives up a lot more by giving up Laptops and other hardware so logically everyone that receives that "free gift" fills obligated to give good reviews. Microsoft is NOT innocent either but they got lot less to give when it comes to hardware. This is why I really like the new law that is going through congress right now...you will have option to file lawsuit against writer for false reviewing. This should have been passed long time ago! How can you get honest review if the person that is reviewing has excepted "gift - review unit" and can't give honest opinion because he/she feels obligated. This writer mention how guy in the video claims to be "technically savvy," but drives bad car. What is one has to with the other??? If the guy is a student he might know a lot about technology but can NOT afford to buy better car! It is a matter of having money to purchase a new car and not about him not knowing what a good car looks like! Anyway...I just hope we can all move on and live this junk behind us so we can again become excited when we come to tech-site like C-net etc. I do NOT want spend hours scrolling post about the stupid iPhone every day. Please make C-net interesting again!!

[Renegade Knight]

I get a kick out of it. Apple's Mac and PC commercials are a good series. Microsoft doing the same thing should keep it interesting.

[gsekse]

Exactly dude. I swear that every blogger who can't think of something to write about, just makes a post about either apple or MS is great and lets the comment roll in. Hmmm, maybe the blogger get points for the number of comments he/she generates. At work, my boss and I use XP, because... we have to, proprietary work software only runs on MS. When we go home, he runs apple stuff because he chose them for his photography work. I go home and use Linux, cause I got fed up with MS and Linux was a cheap alternative years ago to switch to without a hardware change. If I got a free Mac at the time, maybe that would be my preferred platform, I dunno.

What people use will not change unless they can run any software on any platform. That is not going to happen. So PC people will remain PC, Apple people will remain Apple. The only people that will change will be new users, and most of them get set in their ways by whatever their parents provide at home.

[myles taylor]

(shrugs)

In my opinion the Mac market share is high enough. I don't want more idiots tainting the brand. Owning a Mac used to be special; it used to be something that particular people choose. Now the brand is tainted by people who are influenced by ads. Microsoft is targeting back. While I don't think it will convince anyone to buy a PC that was considering buying a Mac, (Apple's Market share isn't high enough yet for that) but they can keep targeting the people who are influenced by ads. I don't want those people to be calling me for tech support anyway. Let them call Dell and HP, Microsoft, etc.

[Homer1972]

I totally agree. Most people think Apple is a smaller market share than they are however, this past xmas Apple had its largest gain in market share in history while MS had it's largest decline, hence the lame misleading commercials. In fact I'm not sure if it's overall or non-business owners, but Apple has increased market share to 20% which is what has MS all freaked out. I really don't care what people get, but for instance some DA above said they have the same components, however that's not true, the PC the girl bought in the first commercial is a complete POS, it has an AMD processor, weak graphics card, and some other sub par garbage. And who running a PC doesn't have virus protection??? It should be considered in the price of a PC, about $50 a year you will have to pay to a protection program, which is not the case on the mac.... right now. If Apple continues to gain market share the virus issue will hit them and I'll be forced to head to Linux.

[NetDirector]

Homer:

I don't know where you get your market share numbers, but they're wrong. Microsoft has 88.14% of the OS market, to Apples 9.77. Apple has picked up 2% in the past year, but nowhere near what you're claiming. Get your facts straight, don't make numbers up. BTW - my source is http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8.

[Renegade Knight]

In my opinion the folks like you need some new blood to cut the snootyness y'all bring to the Mac. It's a computer not a lifestyle though most Mac users try to leverage it into one. The again Mac users are special. Just like everone else.

[bmf59]

Yep yep... cant have those impure folks using the same type of computer as you. Tainting the brand and whatnot. Now you'll have to find a new OS that makes you feel unique.

[pithenumber]

@Homer
The Turion sucks, but the Radeon HD 3200 is actually a fairly powerful GPU, far superior to Intel Integrated crap

AV is free

[captwildbilly]

What a rediculous article and nearly as absurd comments. What is the difference between a Mac and a PC, only that the people at Apple have decided they won't let someone who has not bought their hardware from Apple, install the Mac OS. In the not too distant past Macs were actually slightly different then PCs. Macs used different processors than PC, but now Macs use identical hardware, and even run identical software (you can install the exact same version of Windows as you would on a PC). The only real difference then comes down to available software for the Mac OS, which has a tiny fraction of the available software and hardware dirvers as you can get for a PC.

Macs are possibly more reliable, but largely because Mac users are so limited in what they can install on their computer, that they have a much smaller potential for a bad application or compatibility issue. If you were to limit your hardware choices on a PC to what comes with the HP, sony, Compac, etc. when you take it out of the box, and you limited your software to a realtively small number of applications from Microsoft, Adobe, and some other really big and reliable companies, then I am absolutely sure that you would have a totally reliable machine. Of course you can also add to the mix the fact that the Mac OS is much smaller and more limited in it's capabilities (although perfectly adequate for most users), that also limits the number of possible security holes. You could run Linux on your PC and get pretty much the same functionality and simplicity as a MAC, but you wouldn't have to pay the punishing premium that Mac demands for the privilage of running a less capable OS.

[ZetaZeta_]

Listen to this man.

[tm_anon]

What's less capable in OS X? Oh right, that it can't run the viruses that Windows can. Other than that, they can both do the same stuff.

Until you got to that part of your post, you were actually saying decent stuff. How about we all pretend you only had one paragraph instead of 2 since your second one came entirely out of your ass.

[fshepinc]

And captwildbilly has offered us yet more absurdities. These "arguments" are so laughably illogical that one can only wonder at them. Let's throw out some facts, shall we?

1. True -Macs and PCs now use pretty much identical hardware. That means the real difference is the OS and installed software that comes with the computer. The "Apple premium" is what you pay for that OS and software. If you want to include elements of the hardware design (size, weight, durability -whatever) that's fine. But the real difference is the OS and the installed software.

2. True - There are hundreds of thousands more software titles available for the PC platform. There are also billions more insects in a single US state than there are humans on the planet. The numbers mean nothing. Software availability is meaningful only in the sense that a user is or is not able to do whatever task she has in mind. Those who would argue "limited choices" are only valid if they are comparing software on hand and available to the purchaser. In other words, the fact that there may be 1,000 different word processing titles written for Windows is meaningless if I only ever see two or three titles in my local stores -which is the reality for most of us.

3. False -"The Mac OS is more limited in its capabilities." Where does that absurd idea come from? Not even Microsoft is peddling that idea. The truth is, the Mac OS is extremely powerful. The human genome was decoded on a Mac, not a PC. There is more evidence to suggest that the opposite argument is true: The Mac OS is more powerful than Windows. Why else would Windows constantly, continually, try to copy it? And Apple's decision to sell the OS only in its full-power form means any user can take advantage of it, whereas Windows licenses its OS in pieces, charging you more to be able to do things like burn discs or run certain kinds of software.

We could go on and on about security and other topics, but really the captain's arguments aren't worth the time. As another poster said already, some industries use Macs, and others use PCs, and people should choose the machine that works best for them and best meets their needs. Flaming rages and childish name-calling are a waste of time. Go buy a PC. Go buy a Mac. Whatever. It's like gay marriage -your choice in no way effects me, and my choices shouldn't effect you.

[ZetaZeta_]

And, fshpinc, how much is OS X sold on its own, and how does that factor into the "Apple premium" ?
I would also agree with the higher availability argument. There's a lot of competition between pieces of PC software. Lots of it. For instance, I have a choice of IE, FF, Chrome, Opera, Safari, and more for my browser. I know of several office quites, and even more media players. Each one fights the other for market share in a world where most people own PCs. I guess you could say this competition only exists because of PCs' already large market share, but the fact is that it exists and the merits of so much choice cannot be denied.
Mac OS X is limited in the capability of installing on hardware other than Apple hardware. ;) Why would I even want that, though? If every company wrote their own drivers for OS X, the system would face the same issues that Windows has on so much hardware (freezes, "blue screens") since hardware manufacturers suck at writing drivers. Apple would never put their perfect environment's image at risk.

"Security and other topics" - I said "listen to this man" because he mentioned using linux, so I don't think those other topics really come into play here.

[tm_anon]

@ZetaZeta

He mentions Linux but he has the same backhanded compliment for it as he does OS X. i.e. claiming it has less functionality.

I don't really care that he mentions it. I just care that he got it so wrong.

[ewelch]

Give it up dude. You don't know anything about Macs. Your comment shows that. Macs run 99.999 percent of the software out there - UNIX, Linux, Windows, OS X, even OS/2 and Windows 3.1 - which Vista can't even do. There are thousands of apps on OS X that don't exist in the PC world. There are only a few very special apps that requires a PC. I know of one at work that was developed in Russia and it's 3D graphics requirements (a $1,400 graphics card) won't allow it to run on a Mac.

No big deal. We bought a dell that would run it - and it cost $1,000 more than the high-end Mac Pro.

Yeah, that was a good deal.

OS X is way, way more capable than Windows. WIndows doesn't have anything like Applescript (which is one reason publishing and graphics still prefer Macs). I can't think of one capability that Windows has that Macs don't (other than the 10 or 15 programs that won't run on them).

Mac users are power users just as much as Windows users and Linux/Unix users are power users. Get over it already. You don't want a Mac, fine? But don't go pontificating about something where you have no clue what your talking about.

[chulk90]

To all people here:

I've been reading all the comments posted here, and let me tell you what is true and what is not. I can say this because I have been developing cross-platform softwares and have been involved in many important joint projects (between corporations, and corporation-university).

First off, yes, Mac users have a limited choice because Mac's share is really small compared to that of PC.

It's the simple principle of market competition. The bigger the pie is, the more competition there is. Also, if the competition is fierce, consumers will be given more choices.
Therefore, yes, PC users have more choices, and some popular programs like Firefox don't run well on Macs. Firefox runs much faster and shows much more efficiency on Widnows platform.

However, it doesn't mean that Mac users are less productive than Windows users. Macs have few but powerful tools. Safari is fast, and dashboard and spaces are just wonderful. And, if you exclude the Numbers, iWorks suite is very productive and easier to use than Office suite. (Speaking of Numbers, Numbers is easy, but doesn't offer much features. We sometimes call it a "kiddie tool.")


Second, Mac is more secure than Windows.

As of now, Mac is more secure than Windows. But if you look at the code itself, Windows is more secure than Mac. Then why do we generally say that Mac is better than Windows in terms of security?

It's simple: there aren't many Mac users.

Virus and Malware developers want their "babies" to spread quickly, and to a large number of computers. From this point of view, Mac isn't a very attractive choice. Also, the primary purpose of developing trojan and other malwares is to make money by stealing identification. Why would they develop codes that will work on only a small number of computers? They can spend that time on developing a software that will penetrate into a much larger number of computers.

There was a pwn20 hacking contest last Month in Chicago, IL. In the contest, Safari was hacked in just one minute, while IE8 BETA took much longer time to be hacked. Also, in a contest two years ago, Macbook Air was hacked in just two minutes, using the Remote Disc feature.

I want to tell you. THERE ARE MALWARES TARGETED AT MAC OS X's. That's why there are Mac security tools, such as Norton Antivirus 11. But so far, there hasn't been a single effective Mac virus.

Why doesn't Mac have any virus? Think about it. MS patches its Windows products almost every two weeks, and Linux is patched by millions of developers around the world. But Mac is just NOT. Did you know that Mac's source is more closed than that of Windows? People blame on Microsoft for not sharing their source code, but Apple is far worse. We developers sometimes get really frustrated when we face this obstacle.


Thrid, yes, Macs and PCs have been identical hardwares, since Apple abandoned its IBM-made PPC platform.
But it's impossible for PC users to install Mac OS X on their computers, because Macs use EFI instead of traditional BIOS. In theory, EFI is much more efficient than BIOS, but we have not needed that efficiency, so far.

But since they are identical hardwares, there have been numerous attempts by hackers to install OS X on PCs. The OS X hacked for PC installation is called hackintosh, and hackintosh has been quite successful. The results prove that EFI isn't a big deal, and many people are thinking EFI was done to prevent PC users from installing OS X.


And yes, Macs are unreasonably more expensive than PCs. Calculations have shown that Apple is charging 40~60% premium on its products. If you assemble a PC with same specs of the bottom-level iMac ($1299.99), you can make it for less than $600, including a monitor, mouse, and everything. One of the Simpsons episodes once criticized this policy of Apple, and its "fans." (don't take this to the wrong way. I'm a fan of Wozniak. I even voted for him for "Dancing with stars.")


I wrote this article to demystify some rumors out there. My conclusion is, yes, Macs are more secure and reliable, because the crackers think it's a waste of time to develop viruses or malwares for Macs, whose number is small. But yes, Mac users don't have much choice as Windows users, and that's why many people install BootCamp or VMware on their Macs.

And last, Macs are much more expensive than PCs. But if you want to buy a Mac, go ahead. Apple has successfully established itself as a premium brand. If you buy a Mac, you may help increase your self-esteem level and people will be a bit jealous.

But it doesn't mean that Macs are superior. HP gives you many choices. Look into HP's products line-up.

[websterphreaky]

And he WON'T see the SPINNING BEACH BALL OF WAIT n wait n wait ...... on that cost effective HP either!

Mac's are for the brain dead, the juvenile, the dilettantes, the "slow" brained, people that really just need an Etch-a-sketch level computer and not a REAL COMPUTER with hundreds of THOUSANDS of applications instead of those "iCute ones" from Apple that are aimed at the 2nd Grade Mentality.

Yet that ******** still pay that "Mac Premium" for computeres made in the very same Chinese Sweatshops that churn out low end Dells, eMachines, Gateways and Lenovo's. Kinda proves my point .... Mac(fans) are four sandwiches short of a picnic basket.

Enjoy your Spinning Beach Ball of Wait and all this Buggy OS X Updates, Mac(fans).

The ... C-Net Censors will probably kill this posting as usual. What's that? Fair and balanced reporting and comments???
[CNET editor's note: Offensive content removed.]

[ZetaZeta_]

Personal attacks don't really help your argument much.

[this1!]

chill out. (Editors' note: Profanity removed.)

[tm_anon]

Funny, your comment is still here and it's still idiotic.

Rather than bash Mac users, why not try and tell me why you use what you use instead. Of course, you might actually have to have a clue instead of just spouting what every other Windows fanboy has been spouting.

I've had experience with Windows for since Win95 all the way through Windows XP, trying each variation with the exception of ME. I was never really at ease with a computer until I switched to Ubuntu. Right now, I'm trying to figure out a problem with my roommates computer (running Windows XP). We're on the same network, mine runs perfectly and his is slow and buggy. I'm running Ubuntu 8.10 and he's running a fully patched Windows XP (reportedly fully patched).

I've read experiences from Mac users who have the same experience with OS X as I'm having with Ubuntu. Both Operating Systems "just work".

I'm not saying any OS is perfect. I'm saying these are my experiences. How about you stop bashing others and try telling us your own experiences instead. Prove you're not just a 16 year old kid living in his moms basement.

[ckh1272]

websterphreaky says-"The Apple Butt-Kissing C-Net Censors will probably kill this posting as usual. What's that? Fair and balanced reporting and comments???"

Ummm, yeah. When you comment like a '****, you deserve whatever life has deprived you. For example, the ability to not act like a '****!! So sad, so sad.

[mmagliaro]

Hmmmm... ever use the command line interface in OS/X? Ever notice how much it's like Unix.. because, ummm... it IS Unix. Yes, it has an elegant GUI on it, and easy-to-use applications for the users who just want a simple computer. And it is also a powerful Unix machine and can be used as such for the truly tech-saavy (not like the dope in this video who thinks he's tech saavy because he knows what RAM is). OS/X runs a lot of Linux freeware. It can also dual-boot or simul-boot OS/X, Linux, and Windows at the same time if you use VM Ware or Parallels. So, what exactly, does the Mac NOT do? Nothing. Given it's ability to run all the OS's, it can run MORE applications than a PC, not less.

Feel free to rant and call names. Macs are well-built machines, hardware-wise. Speaking from personal experience as a software developer, since 1978, long before home computers were a gleam in Bill Gates' eyes, all the Macs I have ever owned have held up without repair for amazing lengths of time. I still have 10 year old ones that I use in valuable service every day, and the old iBook laptop I'm typing this on is probably 8 years old (don't know... bought it cheap off eBay).

As for speed, freezes, and spinning beach balls, please. I write software on XP machines all day long. XP drives me mad with how slow it is just do simple functions like launch Word or search the drive for a file.

People should just go buy what they want and what they like. But to imply that Macs are "just for idiots" is patently false. Tell that to anyone in the publishing or music industries and they'll show you the door.

[larstj]

Ah, the hostility. The anger. When those are so blatant, I just know there's is an under-current of shame, self-doubt, and fear. Too bad, really. Another "adult" slips into infancy.

[professionaladventurer]

I reply with same mindset you use. Websterphreaky: go **** yourself in second life, you are a fat asshat who preaches BS from your couch because you lack the courage to talk to other people in person.

[dotroy]

websterphreaky - Not only your post is rude but you are ignorant. Do you know what is under OS X ? It is a UNIX machine running, which comes with PHP5 and Apache web server installed (which runs most of the web application)
Have you ever used a SSH connection ....so that you can connect to a remote server securely ? I do not think so. I think you use your computer to browse porn, do some social networking and read some cnet so you consider yourself tech savy. If you even talked about a Linuz pc then I would have understood your point. There are people who use mac for serious work and you know why because it uses the same processor that you use for windows machine and same graphics card for windows machine but the interface and operating system is far more efficient. Now a days people think IE invented browser and even here at Cnet I read article about Javascript while not even mentioning the fact that Netscape invented it. Anyway I am using a winXP with AMD64 cpu and I own a macbook pro and to tell you the truth this windows machine has been unreliable many times but my mac never died and I still use windows for some of my work people I have to communicate with people like you ....who thinks internet is invented by MS and in this work there is only 2 type of OS ...mac or windows ...in fact there are so many flavours of OS for so many different reason. Read and you will learn !

[Mr. Dee]

I like the design of Macs too, I even like looking at them, but would I buy one? No! Does that mean I am confused? Absolutely not, I would preferably go for an HP Tablet PC which lets me do some innovative things like take notes in Microsoft Office OneNote, create sketches, do regular task like word processing, surf the net, email. I can also do all the same multimedia stuff the Mac touts such as edit videos, photos, publish and share.

The point of what the Mac was all about a few years ago is now irrelevant. Its just like when Windows 3.0 came out. Apple touting they have a better solution through Mac OS because of its point and click experience became irrelevant, PC's now offered just the same. It got even better with Windows 95 and of course, PC's in terms of power even got better than Macs.

Its quite the same with PC's vs. Mac's today. You really are buying aesthetics, aesthetics in an economic crisis that seems like wasting money on something that's in no way better when you can get the same return on investment for something $600 to $1000 cheaper with a Windows based PC. Consumers this past quarter have spoken with their pockets, sales of Macs have dropped in addition to Apple reducing prices (still not enough) on their desktops.

[tm_anon]

So sad that you have the same formula for every post. Start with something that makes some sense then end up bashing Macs out of nowhere.

[seven7dust]

no we are buying a O.S for the hundreth time
you Pc users might want to actually try the O.S before making assumptions
you may like it or hate it but eventually it is the thing that differentiates Macs form Pcs !

and BTW the only people paying for asthetics are Alienware/Dell adamo users !

[pithenumber]

@77dust
I tried Mac OS

is Mac OS good? yes
impressed? No

[scientologistwoods]

I have been a PC dude for 15 years. Someone gave me their old macbook (white 13.3"). I started to use the mac on the side and in a matter of days I dumped all my pc's and switched my wife's pc to Ubuntu. The thing with Macs and PC's is there is always a new PC that has more crap in it, more ram or a bigger hard drive. Macs change once a year or so. The thing is Macs are higher quality and you get OSX! OSX is what makes the mac not the hardware. Microsoft is what makes PC's crap! That just shows the desperation to be like a mac, after all that is what the pc makers are always trying to copy, really!

[Renegade Knight]

Amazing what I miss on my Mac. Being able to use both USB ports at the same time, a good keyboard with a good layout. I still haven't figured out the replacment for the home, end, page up, and page down keys though I have found some two key combo's that replace other keys that Apple didn't see fit to use. OS X. Better than XP. Vista for my purpose (and I think Vista is crap) is better than OS X.

You are lucky if you had an easy trasition. I've had no such luck. Google has been my friend. The Mac Testimonials all sound like you. "Man it's the best thing ever I've never looked back" I have to get on google to find the few of us willing to say "Ok I'm having some trouble figuring out how to so something" Something like watch a video in full screen. Or play WMV files.

[pj4614]

Microsoft is finally getting better at its advertising. But the underlying product still isn't very good. If you want to choose from a large variety of hardware - from cheap junk to high end systems - but be stuck with a terrible operating system that has a high cost of ownership - go with the PC.

If you want an operating system that has a low cost of ownership, is reliable and increases your productivity - and don't mind being saddled with elegant, thoughtfully designed hardware - then go with the Mac.

Many people are too lazy to check out the competition and learn for themselves. Those who are not quickly learn that the Mac is a better choice. It's not about the sexy looks, its about the phenomenal productivity gains from a product that is exceptionally well conceived and executed.

[Sleepingcat]

Personally I enjoy Mr. Matyszczyk's talent. I don't need to agree with it to like it, and I definitely don't agree with it in this case. The "Lauren ad" was good, but this latest one is even better from a marketing point of view, which lest we forget is the dropdead point. Ads are ads. Don't tell the ad agencies, but I don't believe any of them. Shhhh!!! It's kinda sad that in our culture they're even debatable. I'm not a sheep, if that's even conceivable, much to the dismay of any smirky advertising budget that ever existed. It's an ad. It's funny. That doesn't make me fork over a grand any more than Mr. Matyszczyk's wit buys my pet cat food.

[JaegerBaeger]

It reminds me of the liberal-conservative debate.
Fanboys parade their ignorance and prejudice.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Geez, there are sure a lot of Mac fans running around in a panic trying to defend the product around here. I don't get it though. Just let the products speak for themselves. Don't your undies in a bunch because someone might choose to 'think different' and choose something oher than a Mac.

[ckh1272]

It seems to me like the Windows users are running around in a panic, like "websterphreaky", "applesucksleo", etc.

[yonayo]

Dude, you came SO close to saying something relevant, then you went and ruined it by saying that the Mac fans are in a panic.

The real point is that it's okay to "think different" and buy whatever you want. Mac or PC.

(and don't get your panties in a wad because I said "Mac or PC" instead of "PC or Mac". Doesn't matter, dude)

[tm_anon]

Choose whatever you want. I just want to make sure the facts are used instead of the FUD.

[Ramzeo]

Microsoft SUCKS. Historically Microsoft has always been trailing behind Apple in virtually all aspects: aesthetic in design, innovation, clever coding, and bugs! It seems like everything Microsoft put out on the market contains so much bugs. The only thing that Microsoft has going is its marketing. In fact, Microsoft is a marketing company - not a technology company. The whole corporate philosophy is based on domination of the market. It's extremely frustrating to use Microsoft products, including the clunky Windows OS of all versions.

[terminalblue]

Microsoft SUCKS. Historically Microsoft has always been trailing behind Apple in virtually all aspects: aesthetic in design, innovation, clever coding, and bugs!

i am not even and apple fan, but i can assume that you are leading in poor grammar.

[Renegade Knight]

Your history is viewed through rose colored glases. MicroSoft was using color (Color?) before Mac figured out that maybe color is a good thing to have. If you look at the real history you can see that they tended to leapfrog each other on various innovations. To be perfectly frank both the Mac OS and Windows are better off for the competition.

[DrtyDogg]

A+ post Renegade Knight

[dasium]

He's tech savvy. What they don't tell you that near the end of the video, when you're looking at the back of that HP laptop and he says "This laptop has got everything I want", that laptop is running Linux.

[tm_anon]

That's the funniest thing I've ever seen. Didn't spot it until you pointed it out.

[buckfarak]

it was vista

[kojacked]

What's Linux?

[pithenumber]

@kojacked
are you serious?
if you are, Linux comes in many flavours and many of them are far superior to XP, Vista, and OS X
and its free and open source
not for everyone though, user friendliness to newbies is still sorta lacking

[stoddad]

My experience teaching design and motion graphics in a university is that the majority of students begin school with PCs. The digital studio in which I teach, and in which these students take design courses is all Macs. My wife is a PC user as are many other family members, and I often assist them as they are constantly having problems due to Vista, or other system related problems. I am a technologically savvy person on both platforms. I do not push my students to get Macs. I go out of my way to make sure they can use whatever they have outside of class, and enable them without bias. I am concern that the technology works for them, and I try not to insert any attitude on the issue of what operating system is best for them. What is best is what they have, and whatever they can use to be productive and creative. Some even bring their PC laptops to my courses instead of using the Mac workstations the studio provides them.

Given all of this, I would say about 90 percent own Macs before they graduate. I can only assume, they like the operating system better. It might be the freer form of the interface, I'm not sure, but I know many creative people gravitate to Macs. I'm not sure why PC users are threatened by this fact, or have to resort to calling Mac users smug or other things that don't really mean much. People should use what they fell comfortable using.

[yonayo]

Perfectly stated, stoddad.

[monkeyfun14]

I love all the bull **** "testimonials" we get around here as if a PC can't be left alone for 5 mins without BSODing lets stop doing Apple's marketing shall we?

[Renegade Knight]

Creative Majors like Art, Graphic Design and such, have always gravitated towards Mac. Mac had a very early lead in that area. It took some time before software let Windows even do that kind of work. Mac never lost the lead or maybe it was momentum they never lost. Doesn't matter it has recognition as being the best tool for that job. In my profession Mac isn't even an option due to lack of software.

Thus far (I use a dual boot Mac) I am not finding OS X to have a freer form in getting anything done. I'll chalk it up to the learning curve but it's frustrating that simple things in Windows take so many extra steps in OS X. I keep looking to find the mac equivilent but sometimes it's not there, or hard to figure out. However I have time and at least I didn't put money in MicroSofts pocket buying it. Apple isn't the best company but they haven't reached out and cost me money.

[Houstman]

I can do more in Photoshop, Illustrator, Premier, Flash editors, etc, with a PC because it has a right click STANDARD on its mouse which makes it way more efficient for me.

[Norseman]

@Houstman

Man, you are really laying your ignorance out there for the world to see with a statement like that! I have a MacBook, and you know how difficult it is to "right click"? You tap with two fingers instead of one! And that is STANDARD on each and every Apple laptop. And right-click is STANDARD with every Apple mouse that is sold today.

I'd suggest that you actually use a Mac for five minutes before you start throwing out facts that are just plain not true!

[robotaholic]

you certainly don't teach grammer nor spelling in the english language- that's for sure-

I personally love it when people call in wanting technical support for their phone, their mobile broadband card, their blackberry smartphone...and I tell them oh..mac is not supported (and laugh inside of course) and i as well go "out of my way to make sure they can use whatever they have and enable them without bias. I am concern that the technology works for them, and I try not to insert any attitude on the issue of what operating system is best for them." But of course (here in advanced technical support for sprint) we all know mac ppl are retards who spend tons of money and then get mad that nothing works for them...and of course they cop the classic macitude...

[Houstman]

Norseman:

Congradulations, you now have touch sensitive software for a mouse that requires you to keep your fingers elevated at all times when using your it less you accidently "click" on something. What part about "right click" and not "double touch" was too hard for you? Some of us like, respect, and value, tactile response and don't like the document we are working on to reset the cursor or pointer thanks to a cursorary glance by our finger! Then again, I am glad Apple made it into the 1990s and finally added a second "button" to their mouse.

If you want to get technical:

From PC giant Dell for about a hundred dollars less than the much weaker "top-of-the-line" iMac I can get: TWO 24" monitors, wireless keyboard (with a numeric keypad even!), twice the RAM (DDR3), twice the Intel computing power, twice the number of 1TB HDs, duel RW blueray drives (again, twice as many as the iMac--no wait, that is infinitely more blueray drives available for the iMac), four times the graphics computing power, and four times the graphics DDR3 memory. Or I could build it all my self and save another $1000. What person who owns a Mac can say they built their own computer? Not a single one because they can't. All the yak yak about Mac's superior graphics is bull. 2GB of graphics memory whips 512MB any day of the week, I don't care what the chipset is. Plus, you can't even install a physics card into a Mac so how can they have superior graphics?

Again, until a right CLICK and scroll WHEEL become standard on a Mac I won't even consider it.

[DeltaVolt]

Come on people, just because you don't find something to be a good investment (or by the looks of the response unable to afford it) doesn't mean you have to insult it. It's as one of the previous posters said, you can buy a Chevy or you can buy a BMW.

For those that said that Mac is more limited than a PC, get your information straight. I can run all software that my Dell Laptop runs on my iMac and MacBook Pro as well as all of the Linux and Mac OS software - that's 2 operating systems more than any of you.

[Renegade Knight]

Here is the deal. On the windows Side you can buy a Kia, through a Ferarri. On the Mac Side can buy a BMW, BMW, or a BMW but you will pay more for the Apple BMW than the Windows BMW. Reality is what it is

As for the Mac Being more limited, why yes it is. While most people can do the basics on both, and while most people don't need to do more than the basics some do more.

Engineering and Gaming are two areas where a Mac flat out lacks. Meanwhile Mac is stroing in graphic design work and related fields ,but since Windows is so dominant it's all been ported to Windows and you don't have to have a Mac anymore like you used to.

Oh, and I can't run all my software on my Mac let alone Linux. Heck I even need to keep a Win 95 Laptop as a legacy machine to run some softare that Xp and beyond won't run. Life's rough all around.

[franglais--2008]

I have a Dell Vostro laptop, my wife an old G4 iBook. She's a journalist.
I have to render and roughcut her videos, because her's just can't handle the load.
For what it's worth, her 3-year old ibook does have a firewire; the newer ones don't.

[davidwb]

When I buy a Mac I'm buying aesthetics? I thought I was buying an operating system that is stable, free from the worry of malware, an OS that doesn't get in my way questioning every action and otherwise annoying me with superfluous pop-ups. No, I don't care I have icons I haven't used for a while, leave me alone! I didn't know I was buying cool and good looks, I thought I was buying reliability, stability, superior customer and tech service, and a killer suite of media software. Who knew I was cool?

[yonayo]

Mac user? Yep, you're definitely cool; and according to the PC people, you're also incredibly wealthy. (I've used Macs exclusively for almost 20 years, and the only money I ever spent on any of them was the original price. Go figure)

[Renegade Knight]

You are paying a premium. Obviously a lot of us are willing. Even so, I haven't found OS X to be more stable than Vista for my use. Actually on the Mac Vista is more stable and I find that funny as heck.

[AJ Pants]

So many people seeing the light. Can't be a bad thing.

Viva Apple!

[kojacked]

"the light"?

Anyone who associates a spiritual awakening with a product has obviously taken that product oh too seriously.

[Stormspace]

The next ad is going to be a gamer. He's going to go look at the game selection and see ten titles for the Mac and about 100 for the PC and rightly claim the PC has more choices. :)

[aemarques]

The ratio should be more 1000:10, actually...

[OS11]

Most Mac software is downloaded... not put in boxes like PC users are still forced to do... it's much more efficient.

and there are about 6,300 PC games, 1,460 Mac games so the ratio is about 4.3 to 1

[tm_anon]

Let's see the game designers make a high resolution, high intensity game for OS X, Windows and Linux and we'll see which version plays better. The only catch, each system the game is played on has to have the exact same hardware configuration (as close as possible).

Get 3 Macbooks, install Windows on one and a Linux distro on one, leave the third one as is. If the Windows version, when everything else is completely equal, still has better graphics, you won't see me arguing again. My hypothesis, you'll find out that Linux and OS X are just as capable, possibly more capable, of running those high intensity graphics gamers love so much.

Who knows, if more games were made for the Mac, you might be able to buy an iMac gamers edition. It would cost more but I guarantee it would be worth it.

[Renegade Knight]

@ OS11

Downloading purchased softare is a great way to give up your right to resell it when you are done. Games especially. It's not more efficient just different and it has major issues when it comes to consumer rights. Apple loves this model. Their only saving grace is that they charge less. That's good because you will be buying it all again.

[Stormspace]

@ tm_anon
It's not about the hardware. Mac hardware is perfectly capable of playing the same games as an equally specced PC. But if you want to play one natively in OSX your search is going to be long and your options limited. Also while there may be download options for the Mac, new buyers will only be looking at what is on the shelf.

[xggrand]

@Renegade Knight

"Downloading purchased softare is a great way to give up your right to resell it when you are done. "

You DO realize that when you purchase ANY software (or any other intellectual property, for that matter), you are paying for the license to use that software, NOT the physical media it is stored on? That license is generally non-transferrable.

Try selling that "right to resell" argument to anyone who makes a living at creating software, literature, music, visual artwork... .

Yes, yes... Renkenigit, stealing is good... yessss.... good.

[mikestatic1]

Who plays games on a PC? Isn't that what consoles are for? PC Games suck.

[kojacked]

Damn straight!

[EricJM001]

Who in the world has time to play games anymore?

[pithenumber]

@tm_anon
the thing is Mac OS and Linux don't have DirectX, DirectX is Windows exclusive

I would never buy an iMac gamer's edition, it would use crappy laptop graphics

@mike
PC is far superior to console. It might cost more, but you definitely get what you pay for
Look at Fallout 3 on your console, then compare it to what it looks like on a good gaming PC
Steam is better than all other digital distribution systems so far, Steam is for PC