Comments on: Microsoft goes after Mac on price in new ad

In a new TV commercial from Redmond, a "random consumer" says she would have to double her budget to get what she wants from Apple.

[t8]

Ha ha I just saw the ad.
This is Microsoft trying to hide the fact that Vista is an expensive bloated and slow operating system by getting people to focus on the hardware made by others.

Just in case you were sucked in by the ad, I will say it out loud for you.

VISTA IS AN EXPENSIVE PIECE OF BLOATED JUNK.

[Cobra212]

Being both a PC (work) and a Mac (home) user I have a good basis for comparison. Starting price can be argued on both sides and, there, hardware alone is not the best comparison. You must also include the software that makes a computer a real tool. The difference between the two, to me, is the price I put on my own time! I use a computer constantly throughout the day at work and when I'm at home. My Macs just work, no matter the changes in location, connection, application, etc. My PC laptop (ThinkPad T61P) needs constant restarting, resetting of wireless connections, and much more time consuming installations/configuration challenges, anytime I try to put something new on it. They both work yes, and the applications may accomplish the same things in the end, but I can do it so much faster on the Mac. I am constantly yelling at my PC, cursing Microsoft for making its billions out of the hide of its users time. When I travel (even for work), I take my own Mac laptop vice the PC laptop, just because it saves me so much time. So from my point of view, the discussion has very little to do with the going in price, but rather with the personal time cost over the life of the computer. From many years of personal experience (I purchased my first computer in 1977), I can say with conviction, if you value your time and mental state, there is no comparison, Mac wins hands down!

[kcotham]

And there have been dozens of independent studies that have shown the exact same thing. It's also been my experience. I used to work in a lab at a major university and had a project that required a lot of time in front of the computer. I had Windows XP machines there at my disposal. I used them for about a week (and I'm no stranger to them). I then brought in my PowerBook G4 with Mac OS X 10.4 on it. I got about twice as much done in the same time, if not more.

[pithenumber]

@cobra212
My thinkpad works fine

[dlowe402]

As for the quality issue...I have 4 Apple computers running in my house right now. A Mac Pro, a 15" Macbook Pro, an Intel iMac and a G5 iMac. Number of times I have had to have them repaired = ZERO. I have had Macs for the last 14 years continuously and have had to have service twice on minor issues and both of those are still running in relatives houses. Not to mention,, if you decide to upgrade and want to sell your Mac, the resale value is very high. My brother has had his "HP" in for major repairs about every 6 months it seems. I am not giving opinions here...just stating some facts about my own experience.

[kcotham]

Exactly. Just walk onto a major university campus and talk to some of the students. You'll find that a lot of them had a Dell or HP or whatever first, it lasted about a year or so and they replaced it with a Macintosh. And ALL of them will say that they are more productive now. I have done such an informal survey and I could not find a single solitary one that regretting switching to a Macintosh.

[rohneas]

I am not shocked that they showed an HP. This sounds more like trying to keep HP from sticking something long, hard, and painful into Ballmer's rear-end after the "Vista Capable" debacle (which seems like it hit HP the hardest).

It isn't that I hate Windows, I'm just sick of this idiotic war between Mac and PC. My Mac does (at times) run Windows, and some of my favorite and most commonly used software packages are on Windows. However, I do like the little things in my MacBook Pro (light-up keyboard, easier time getting after the support people that are within striking distance if needed, and the mag-safe connector that saved my laptop three times now).

Last thought, Microsoft is starting to advertise for computers. They are a software (well, mostly) company. They are right now very inter-dependent with all the manufacturers, and they have little control over what innovation the hardware manufacturers are doing.

[dlowe402]

Another point I'd like to make...It seems to me that MS is just grasping at straws here. They can't boast their wonderful OS so they talk about how cheap the computers are. This doesn't make sense either. The don't make the computers, they make the OS and you can put Windows on a Mac so, why bash Apple? I have read a lot about how XP and even Vista actually run better on a Mac. What does that tell ya about quality?

[pithenumber]

When you compare a $500 pc with a $2000+ Mac, the Mac should run stuff better than the PC

do a fair comparison

My PC runs Mac OS in Hackintosh better than a similarly priced Mac ($500 homebrew tower vs Mini)

[kcotham]

@pithenumber
If Windows is so much better, why are you illegally running Mac OS X on your generic computer?

And by "better" what do you mean? Where are your numbers? What is your comparison? Is it easy for any Joe on the street to do what you did? Is it even legal? (whole 'nother can of worms)

[mgheff]

@pithenumber- Well, that's all great that you have the time and knowledge to build a Hackintosh. The fact is that most people don't. So that shouldn't even be a choice for most people.

[pithenumber]

@kcotham
I run many OS's
OS X is just one of them, I use OS X for iTunes, GarageBand, and because I can show it off to potential customers who are scared of Vista

the $500 build is one that I tested many times to ensure it is stable and everything functions in Mac OS, it is the build I sell to the average Joe who can't build a hackintosh himself

[seven7dust]

@pithenumber
you can build a hakintosh for 500$ ?
you'd be a Millionaire if you started to target people outside a Mac store
infact Apple would make millions if they sold 500$ towers !
hell even I may be interested in one !
in future maybe {due to recession problems}

[setgo]

Ballmer likes to talk about how Macs are only 5% of the market. Then why would you waste your advertising dollars talking about how "cool" that 5% is?

Fear!

[Cybernuaght]

Actually, this is great advertizing for Apple and it isn't shocking at all. MS and Apple are actually supporting each other's advertizing as they keep consumers focused on two proprietary brands with two very different non-competing market shares. MS is after the consumer focused market, thus the focus on cheap, while Apple's is a niche market appealing to a fashion conscious consumer with more disposable income. The Apple market is not and never has been Joe and Jane Sixpack and lets not pretend otherwise.

What both companies do by hyping each other's brands in advertizing is make consumers forget there are other choices in the market including entirely free software choices for cash constrained consumers.

Schools should teach media literacy.

[kcotham]

Apple is targeting people that can spot quality and don't just want the cheapest thing they can get.

There are two kinds of people in this world:

1. The sort of person that will buy the least expensive thing they can get to do the job.
2. The sort of person that will get the best thing they can afford.

That breaks down to:

1. Generic PC's (almost always running Windows by default (thank you manufacturers for not allowing more bundling choices)).
2. Apple Macintoshes.

[pithenumber]

@kcotham
I can spot quality
I use generic PC's

[kcotham]

@pithenumber
Your two statements contradict one another.

[pithenumber]

@kcotham
I bet that I can build a higher quality computer than Apple does

Apple does a better job with quality than most OEMs do though(looks at Dell)

[kcotham]

@pithenumber
Then goody for you, why have we not seen you make billions of dollars and making millions of computer then?

[FellowConspirator]

Microsoft: "Our computers are cheaper!"
Apple: "But, you don't make computers."
Microsoft: "Shut up."
Apple: "How about operating systems? We both make those. Let's see, both are included in the cost of a new computer, both have free updates... Hmm... Leopard's $129 at retail, and $149 for a 5-license pack, or $169 when bought with the office suite and iLife; Windows Vista is $272 retail plus $60 more for Office - 1 license."
Microsoft: "Shut up."

[Norseman]

Love it, FC!

[pithenumber]

what's with retail?
retail copies just suck, long live OEM 3 packs!

[kcotham]

@pithenumber
I see you support illegal activities. Please, by all means, continue to undermine the system that you claim to support. MIcrosoft loves for people to steal their products.

[pithenumber]

@kcotham
OEM copies are not illegal!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116516

[blogbrowser]

I became an Apple fan about 6 years ago and loved it. Used to NEVER crash, but lately I have been having problems with occasional crashing with the new iPhoto. I am slowly tiring of Mac, but then I use my wife's PC and still find the Mac to be better and much more stable. I almost wish Apple wasn't gaining market share, I think that fact, along with the iPhone business, is forcing Apple to push product out the door prematurely to keep the cash cow going. No, I have nothing to support that claim, just my opinion. I would buy another Mac, but I'm not as naive as I used to be. I think Apple is slipping. Yes, that saddens me. I NEVER had crashes or freezes the first several years of having my Macs.

[kcotham]

I wish they weren't so willing to cave into the switchers. The OS is becoming too Windows like in terms of it's UI, just to court switchers and potential switchers. Apple needs a good thrust back in the direction of the "classic" Mac OS's UI. They started down that path by letting all those newly acquired NeXT programmers have their say on UI design.

PUT THE WINDOW BUTTONS BACK IN THE CORRECT PLACE! Close on the left and minimise and maximise on the right!

[blogbrowser]

I became an Apple fan about 6 years ago and loved it. Used to NEVER crash, but lately I have been having problems with occasional crashing with the new iPhoto. I am slowly tiring of Mac, but then I use my wife's PC and still find the Mac to be better and much more stable. I almost wish Apple wasn't gaining market share, I think that fact, along with the iPhone business, is forcing Apple to push product out the door prematurely to keep the cash cow going. No, I have nothing to support that claim, just my opinion. I would buy another Mac, but I'm not as naive as I used to be. I think Apple is slipping. Yes, that saddens me. I NEVER had crashes or freezes the first several years of having my Macs.

[grossj144]

Just did a quick check at crucial's website and they are $20.01 cheaper than Apple for the 8 gig upgrade. Granted, you can pull the two two gig sticks and resell them, thus recouping some of the cost. Unfortunately, not many computers use DDR3 ram yet. So, by the time you could resell the ram it is quite possible that faster/better ram will be released which will diminish the demand and lower the price you could get for the ram. Plus, if you truly hate mucking about inside a computer (and lots of people do), the $20 premium for it being preinstalled is probably worth it.

Additionally, if you try to find a spec-for-spec Apple to Dell/HP laptop, you will not find one. So it truly becomes a case of comparing Apples to Oranges. Having said that, I spec'd out a Dell XPS M1730 and the prices are pretty close. Granted, the Apple had slightly less powerful specs, overall. In fact, it seems that only the DDR3 ram was really better. The Dell had better graphics with more GDDR3 ram, a bigger hard drive, etc. In my look-up I included two 9-cell batteries, in an attempt to even out the battery life comparisons between the two computers. At any rate, the price difference was a whopping $1. YMMV when specing out two computers. Opinions vary and most comparisons are done by people with an agenda. So, buyer beware.

Lastly, the flame wars between Macs and PCs are overplayed and entirely too juvenile. Sort of reminds me of sitting in a middle school cafeteria and listening to a group of squeaky voiced boys argue about whose lunch is better. Really, if you like a Lenovo with a complete Microsoft OS/Office/Game stack...great. If you like an Apple MacOS X/iLife/iWork stack...great. As long as the two companies continue to innovate in order to show who is "better"...awesome for us.

[kcotham]

Competition is good. Now, only if we can convince Micro$of of this and steer them from their mission to eliminate their competition.

[davidwb]

I saw the ad last night (the sound was off) and I had five thoughts: 1) she has gorgeous hair 2) why is a hair care commercial in a computer store? 3) who is that woman? 5) A Microsoft ad? You have to be kidding me! 4) who is that woman?

An effective ad? I don't think so.

[st430]

so many stupid people think Apple laptop is better than the PC.
once you yank open your APPLE, you will see the same seagate/WD harddrives that is on DELL and HP also... you will see the same sony battery (remember the recall?) ..you will see the same intel CPU..
the same NVIDIA graphic chip set...the same LG/samsung or other brands LCD screen...the same motherboard from asus or similar taiwan made motherboards...the same all other computer parts like modem modules...same memory chips from Samsung or other provider....
If you had ever work in computer industry...you will know everyone shares parts.
The computer hardware are mostly identical except the exterior design.
That outer case design is what you pay extra 500$ to apple to be "cool" and bought in to the apple hype.
reliable or not? all computer makers has some lemons and some good ones depends on model.
You like the O/S better? that's a different story...but OS/X price is not that far off from VISATA to justify $500 difference.

[seven7dust]

OSX is worth n e price IMO !
and like I've said before it is the component that truly differentiates Macs from the rest !
the hardware stays inside the computer .but it's the software and O.S that we as users use everyday
which is why Apple gets away with their pricing
cause their software is just that much better !
plus Macs r like a convenience you get the best support and customer service around and generally a hassle free experience !

[kcotham]

That and the fact that the cases are better built and better designed. Toss around your generic Dell in a back pack every day for a year and do the same with a MacBook and we'll see which is still working and looking good at the end of that time.

[pithenumber]

@kcotham
I toss my laptop around a lot
the Thinkpad still works fine
even the cheapo eeepc still works fine, that takes an especially rough ride everyday

[QASIMARA]

easy, now.

[JohnTAdams]

Macs last two or three times longer than cheap PCs. Macs don't become obsolete when the operating system advances and evolves.

Bottom line: you get what you pay for. Enjoy your cheap PC Lauren.

[boychuk]

And, once Lauren starts using Visa, she'll quickly realize she's losing about $700 worth of productivity every month.

[rohipnull]

Am I missing something? When did microsoft start making PCs. They make software. So isn't this commercial comparing two other companies products and nothing from MS.

[kcotham]

It's doing what Micro$oft does best, spread FUD. They learned that lesson a little too well from IBM.

[DarkerRaul]

Was this an ad for Microsoft or for HP. I wasn't aware that Microsoft made hardware. The only thing this ad didn't advertise was the one thing that Microsoft actually sells. Software. So I'm clear on the fact that HP sells hardware for less than Apple does. What I'm not clear on is what that has to do with Microsoft. Why did I just pay $500 for a full version of Windows Vista Business, and then a $100 anti virus program, when I could buy a full version of Mac OS X for $200 and not have to worry about viruses at all. Sounds like Windows Tax to me.

[sum613]

Who needs Vista Business? The laptop she buys comes with the basic Vista which is probably what 98% of people really only need. $100 for anti-virus? Maybe for a MAC it does...last time I checked for PC's they usually go for $35-50. I'm not a MAC hater by any means but stop with the ridiculous exaggerations.

Any PC sale is an indirect sale for Microsoft...how can you not see this?

Fact remains that PC's cost a crap load less than MAC's, and there's nothing I cant do on a PC that I can do on a MAC that "matters".

[kcotham]

@sum613
But can you do it reliably, without headaches? And can you do it quickly, without having to look up how or asking a friend? Most people can't. And THAT is why the Macintosh is worth the "extra" money. You pay your Windows Tax and I'll pay my Apple Tax. We'll see who's blood pressure is lower at the end of the day.

110/70 by the way ;-)

[jypeterson]

1) The commercial is going for budget conscious Americans.
2) Most Americans can care less what their computers look like, how they operate, or what "specs" they have
3) The MacBook Pro has been rated by CNET as the best laptop for Vista, ironic?
4) How many of the current PC manufacturers are struggling to maintain a bottom line? Dell, HP, Lenovo, et al have been struggling to make a profit on the low end PC's for years now. The market is too saturated and the margins are too razor thin. This is why ASUS was able to move in and steal market share from the big boys. It does exactly what the customer wants, check their email, surf the internet, is cheap, et cetera.
5) Apple will not ever join the low end PC field. They have a record of maintaining at least a 30% margin on their products.
6) The total cost of the laptop is not advertised at all. How much will Lauren pay for anti-virus protection subscriptions, purchase useful applications that come on a Mac already, the money she will have to spend to pay someone to remove the crapware from the laptop, et cetera.

Microsoft is just hoping that the consumer is only interested in the up front cost only. Lauren's HP does not equal Apple's MacBook in hardware or software specs. No matter how hard Microsoft tries, it will still be losing the image war with Apple. Apple will still gain market share, still make money, and produce products that people really desire and will purchase.

[drbyte]

My sister just got a $600 desktopPC, which cames with a quad core processor, 6gb of ram, 17" monitor, 500gb HD, pci-e geforce graphics card (she's not a gamer), 2gb flash drive, printer, speakers, ect. True she'll have to run 2 to 3 types of software to protect from web threats, but you can't beat that deal. Those specs with a Apple desktop would be 4 times the cost. That's what's keeping them from being all the could be in the PC market. Luxury car pricing for economy boxes.