Comments on: Apple fanboys vs. Microsofties: A scientist's verdict

Love and hate apparently use the same circuits in the brain, which might help explain the rivalry between Apple and Microsoft devotees.

[myles taylor]

I'm been using Apple products since System 7 but I've always worked with Windows extensively for work. I consider myself objective when it comes to both sides of this, but I choose to use Apple products. (shrugs)

I always find it amusing (and sometimes annoying) to watch the Apple and Microsoft fanboys go at each other. Usually they are both irrational and won't listen to reason. So yea....it's fun to watch.

[random truth]

Ill dido that. Its a computer. You use it to work and entertain yourself. Weather you use mac, windows, or linux is your decision. I personally boot all of them because they are best at their own unique things.

[pjhenry1216]

I usually dislike when Apple users qualify their statements with "I've used both and chose Apple." That really doesn't mean anything. Since Windows has such an overwhelming marketshare, its obvious that must Apple users have, in fact, used Windows. Its gotten to the point where if you've used a computer, you've also used Windows (or vice versa, most people who haven't used Windows just haven't used a computer). So, it makes sense that those that prefer Apple have used Windows. What I'm getting at is that it doesn't imply an objective decision in any sense of the word. Thats like saying a Democrat that lived in a state that had a Republican leader is objective because he's experienced Republican policies but prefers Democratic ones. Its in no way objective. I always find it amusing when people who say they aren't fanboys one way or the other consider themselves NOT to be fanboys, yet still voice their opinion of which one is obviously better (because they're so objective after all). No system wins hands down. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. It all comes down to mostly personal preferences and restrictions on what you need to be able to use (when it comes to it, most OSes all have suites for any sort of general work you may need to do and all at comparable prices, if not for free). Whether its video, pictures, music, etc., no OS is a hands down winner. Maybe someone will like using one more than the other or really like an application thats only available on one system, but that doesn't make the OS any better, its again just preference. Sometimes work may require one OS over the other due to strict incompatibilities and thats fine. But if there are no restrictions on what you're allowed to choose, its really all personal preference. Some like Windows, some like OSX. I currently have limited experience on a Mac, though I do want to buy one. Unfortunately, I'm waiting for an update to the mac mini as I don't *need* a Mac badly enough to get anything more expensive. I currently use Windows XP Pro and Ubuntu Gutsy (haven't updated it yet). I had Vista Ultimate on another PC but I sold that, not because I thought Vista was bad (because honestly, Apple users are exaggerating its problems, especially the commercials... its really not a bad system, just bad reputation from way back when it launched and *was* a bad system) but because it was a secondary computer and my sister needed a computer so I sold her the one PC I had that I could live without (my other PC dual boots XP & Ubuntu so I use that one as my main PC).

Neither OS is better. Its all just personal preference. I use Windows because I was 'raised' on it and honestly, I don't have problems with it. I know other people who do have problems with it. I also know other people who have problems with OSX. So both systems frustrate different people.

So don't go saying you're objective because you chose OSX over Windows after using both extensively.

I just want to use as many of the popular OSes as possible because I just like computers. I'm more familiar with Windows as I've used it since Windows 95 (i'm old enough to remember 3.5, but didn't get my first computer til win95). I don't have a problem with it. I've used OSX and there were things that outwardly I didn't like, but not because it sucked, but just because it didn't do things the way I like them to happen (i purposely didn't say "the way i'm used to" because its not just familiarity that was missing). Its pure preference.

I don't choose either. I just can't afford to buy an Apple pc when I don't really need one. I'd buy one if I could and I'd use both as I use Ubuntu and XP for different things.

[Jimmygotajobatgoogle]

Haha, its about time for someone to make a research about the fanboys war :D

Good job Prof.

[Mark_Anderson]

Depends what you mean by 'fanboy' - what irritates me is the bollocks spread by both camps.

[ChrisMatyszczyk]

Mark,

Yes, much bollocks indeed. Somewhat like listening to Cameron and Blair, no?

Chris

[Mark_Anderson]

Indeed. No difference at all really.

[Darin_rod2]

I have used macs & PC's since 1984. I like each of the platforms for the fact that they cover different ends of the spectrum. However Apple's window bashing ways are probably stemming from the corporate rejection of Apple even in its earliest days.
I have always found ways to do things on a mac that most people imagine impossible. I earn my bread & butter working on Microsoft products; To each his own God for all...

[waratahah]

This helps me understand the vicious irrational hatred we are seeing on a national scale between Republicans and Democrats right now. It has a similar feel to it.

Many people have drawn attention to the almost religious fervor in the Apple/PC debate and now we are seeing the same type of fervor in the Republican/Democrat debate. The close connection between love and hate in brain neurocircuitry helps explain this.

It is interesting to me that the most influential people in the national political debate are the independents, those who refuse to be drawn into either camp. They can see positive things and negative things in both sides and weigh up the issues when making their decisions. They are the people who decide elections and who both sides must woo if they want to win.

My hunch is that it is the same in the Apple/PC debate where we vote with our dollars.

[ballmerisanape]

"Similarly, is it possible that Apple fanboys secretly covet something about Microsoft? And that Microsofties are desperate for some of Apple's pips?"

Actually, the VAST majority of Apple Fanboys are that way because they have a fair amount of experience with Windows... The move to Apple was a choice... and Apple fans become irritated when Windows fanboys use the same old tired arguments despite them being outdated. Most of the Microsoft fanboys I know haven't used a Mac in 10 years.. making them the uninformed side... and clearly insecure... and perhaps.. likely to covet something about the Mac "experience"...

[James7777777]

Did someone say apple fanboy?

[povich]

I'll start another flamewar with a motorcycling analogy: If you want ride a motorcycle you get a BMW. If you want to work on a motorcycle you get a Harley. If you want to use a computer you get an Apple. if you want to work on a computer you get a PC. (DnR...)

[ballmerisanape]

yep.. that's me. I have a problem with companies that sell "good enough" products that have compromised security on a monumental level. Plus.. I really dislike Ballmer.. the man is not right.

[Warhaven]

@ povich (I'm going to respond anyway) -- I think you have that backwards, and I'm going to be referring to Windows in place PC and OS X in place of Apple, as that's what you're really referring to. In short, there isn't anything I can do on Windows with regard to "work" (a very broad term) that I can't do on OS X. When I get home, the only thing I find my Windows PC doing that I can't do on my work computer -- work policies aside -- are the games. That's it. I can still do all my programming, scripting, and application programming on both. I can still do all my network monitoring, system imaging, and bandwidth allocation on both. I can still do all my work documents on both. The only think I can't do on both is play Crysis & Bioshock -- which is hardly "working on a computer."

[rapier1]

Personally, I use a mac for 8 hours a day almost eery day of the week. At home I use Vista (SP2 as of this morning). I also use linux and BSD frequently. I have no problem with anyone using whatever they want to use. Choice is good. What I have a problem with is zealotry and partisanship. Some Apple fanbois are so besotted with the Apple 'way' that they refuse to acknowledge the value in anything that comes from outside of that world. I can't stand that sort of narrow mindedness.

[aztec92154]

@ Warhaven

You can't use Garageband, iMovie on a PC. And the alternatives are just much too expensive: Adobe Premiere $799 USD, Cakewalk SONAR 8 $619 USD. With a mac, these applications (and more like iPhoto, PhotoBooth, ect) are included with each computer purchase.

[jscott418]

The amazing thing is that each side believes their is only one operating system worth using. Of course its the one they are using. The same could be said for political beliefs too. The Republicans and Democrats react very much like the Apple fans and Microsoft fans. Which brings to the fact that Linux fans although out there must be the dark horse like the libertarians who say they are better then the other two.
Its funny how humans take these stances in many areas. Cars is another example. You could be a GM man or a Ford. Maybe Mopar is your choice. You still develop a hate for the rest. Taking sides seems to be in our nature. Some go for the underdog such as those who have stuck with Apple all these years. Some go with popularity like Microsoft Windows. Some want to break away totally and become Linux users.

[waratahah]

But libertarians and independents are different animals. Independents are sick of the parties, or think they don't fit in any of them. They pick and choose among Republican, Democrat, Libertarian and Green candidates according to the quality of the people and their ideas. There seem to be ratbags and sharp people with integrity in all parties.

The independents may use Apple at work and Microsoft at home or vice versa. They may use Mac for media-centric work (Final Cut Pro, Aperture or Photoshop) and PC for business applications and number crunching (Access, Outlook and proprietary business apps.). They get the best of both worlds.

[ChrisMatyszczyk]

Yes, jscott418,

The Democratic/Republican thing. Hmm. You've given me an idea for another post....

But does that mean LInux is Ralph Nader? Or, perhaps, Ross Perot?

Chris

[Kev_Orng]

I've pointed it out many times before, but most Mac users are dual citizens. We are either former PC users who switched, or we have to use Windows for work, or, like me, we have both in our homes and workplaces and can roll our chair from one to the other without a hiccup.
The only problem I have moving between the two platforms is when muscle memory makes me mix up Apple's Command key and Window's CTRL key. But I have the same problem when I get into an automatic car.
That being said, when deciding where to spend my own money, I choose an Apple machine. There's a multitude of reasons for that, but obviously none of them arise from ignorance of the Windows platform.

The only thing that bugs me about Windows, really, is the habit of Windows fans to angrily and/or rudely dismiss me as an irrational fanboy if I dare to make my preference known in a public forum. But hey, my choice is based on actual long-term and ongoing experience with both platforms. Theirs is usually not so well informed. My only regret is that I've had limited opportunity to get to know Linux as well.

[Warhaven]

"...My only regret is that I've had limited opportunity to get to know Linux as well."

You're not missing much. Honestly. Apple has already done for the *nix platform what KDE/Gnome and Linux have been trying to do for the last two decades -- make it usable by Joe Average. There are a couple Linux boxes at my work that I have to put up with (An Ubuntu and Fedora), and I loathe having to do anything to fix them if something goes awry. Troubleshooting Linux is NOT something Joe Average can do. Ever. You have dig into conf files and cryptic command line applications to get anything done. It's a huge headache.

[rapier1]

I agree with Warhaven. I wouldn't use linux as a desktop system (and I used to use BSDi and Linux as my desktop) because I don't want to be a sysadmin anymore. Apple has done a great thing in putting a consistent and usable interface on top of a unix core. That being said, I wouldn't use OS X for a production server. Not ever.

[theunclesam]

It's ok. Us Linux guys would rather keep our pool of users on the smart and experienced side. It's like that great club downtown where only members are admitted: As soon as you let the common man in, it all goes to hell. So please, stick to anything but Linux.

[CrashPad63]

Fainboi alert!!!!

[baf8297]

I have been using Apple products and Wintel products since 1984 and Microsoft/Apple products since 1981. (Actually taught Visicalc to others in my office in '81). I have always used technology to enhance improve productivity and present ideas in ways that were not possible before. Not a gadget geek and have no profound techno-lust for any product. I switched to Apple products at home because I wanted a computer that "worked" and I did not want to be constantly fiddling with system issues. Apple, except for the Scully years, has never let me down. I know use Mac more for work because processing power has allowed me to switch between platforms with ease. If Entourage was more "Oulookish" and Access ran on the Mac (as well as a few other products) there would be no need to own Wintel products at all (except when it comes to working in an Oracle environment). That said, yes it is entertaining to watch the cat fights, but quite frankly, I just want a computer that works.

[CrashPad63]

Fanboi alert!!!!

[MaggieRed]

I use primarily a Mac but run Windows XP on all my Macs for some obvious reasons. I love it when I come in and start up my Mac and my engineer neighbor fires up his PC. I'm up and running and have XP almost up and running before he gets his XP on his PC running. That to me is amazing and speaks volumes of Apple products.

Personally I think much of the disgust from Apple product users is the blatant copying of Microsoft, after MS has slammed and bashed Apple for the same feature they are now adding to their product. I laughed when I saw previews of Windows 7, use of the transparent menus and functions is being harold as a fantastic new feature... uh OS X has had that for several full versions. And when Apple supporters and users point that out MS supports attack the Apple person without merit. Instead of saying yeah it is pretty disgusting that MS cannot create anything original and yes that's a kewl feature that Apple has with its product and we are glad to finally have it on our products. Then there wouldn't be this hate, but more mutual respect.

[eugene211]

I already sensed fanboyism here

[close5828]

"Love, it seems, is blind. Whereas hate has GPS. " << SO TRUE!

[Mark_Anderson]

*Looks at comments above*

Like I said, the bollocks spouted by both camps.

Personally I use the most appropriate tool for the job. Sometimes it's a Mac, sometimes it's Windows and sometimes it's Linux.

It's all good.

[ChrisMatyszczyk]

Oh, but Mark.

Where are your emotions? Where is your love? Your detestation?

Might you be in denial?

Chris

[DrtyDogg]

Here is some emotion:

- I love Apple's attention to detail, and ergonomic design(software and hardware)

- I love Linux's flexibility

- I love Microsoft's powerful platform

I hate:
- Linux's difficulty to use

- Apples lack of flexibility

- Microsoft's failure to deliver a complete product(on time would be nice too)

[Mark_Anderson]

I would honestly try to work up some emotion about the issue but I just can't get excited about what are essentially posh calculators.

Of course it's much more fun pointing out where delsuional fanboys of either stripe are wrong. That's where the love is. :)

[shycelticwitch]

Like most of the others here, I choose Mac over Windows because I have used both, and can do anything I want on both, but have little time for issues with viruses, software glitches and hardware problems. It is probably correct to assume that 99.9% of Apple haters who have posted comments here have never used one except the few who might have stopped to play with one in a store, and that's not considered "use".

So while our dissatisfaction with Windows is based on experience, the Apple hater's issue is based purely on their opinions of a product they have never tested themselves. I think that it is fair to say that "fanboy" or not, our intelligent choice to use software and hardware that offers the most up-to-date technology, the least amount of upgrading and the best resale and longevity statistics, is a solid choice based on facts and experience. We are not "cultists" led by a "preacher" who "misleads" and "empties our pockets."

On the contrary, since I switched to Mac 8 years ago my IT support costs have gone to $0. And my productivity has stayed at 100%. You just can't beat that, Microsoft.

[myles taylor]

I couldn't agree more. At work I work mostly with PCs and some with Macs. When I have a choice though, that choice is a Mac.

[Mark_Anderson]

The difference is that most of us don't hate Apple whereas you hate Microsoft. The assumption that most people who use Windows can't have used a Mac for any length of time is particularly amusing.

If it works for you, fine. I'm glad you've found the right solution but to assume that's the same for everyone or that we don't explore the options is folly indeed.

[CrashPad63]

Fanboi alert!!!

[Jeff Putz]

This is kind of a stupid either-or connection. I'm a .NET developer who loves his Macs and iPhone. So what does that make me, bipolar? Schizophrenic?

[ballmerisanape]

Probably just makes you smart.. and willing to choose the best product for your needs without fear of how people view your decision.

[Dylan_Wisor]

Your last name is Putz. Teehee.

[VdkaShaker]

Dylan_Wisor: Ok, so the guy didn't pick his family name, but that's the funniest comment I've ever read. LMAO

[rufusrm44]

You certainly have a point, but having shot your "wad" so to speak, I wonder if the real issue has more to do with the fact that the industry simply is, as other sectors of corporate America are, marginalized by monopolistic interests. M$ fans would love a company that innovates and builds solid software releases, to say nothing of an intelligently designed and user friendly operating system. Mac fans would love to have choice, the foundation of marketplace economics. Unfortunately, if any computer user/buyer wants to commit to a system AND not be overly burdened by learning computing skills unrelated to their interests, they are stuck with virtually NO choice. I say this because most would agree that any choice is a compromise. And such choices amount to two. You simply can't get what you want, so, instead, you vehemently support that which you commit a fair amount of money to and knowledge of use (maybe the love-hate, as you alluded to, is within the person's choice... not it's target of hate; think any democrat or republican and their general satisfaction of their party).

You make the analogy to O'Reilly and Olberman, but I say make it to voting Democrat or Republican. The majority of Americans don't vote, they don't support the two party system and they don't really learn about the issues beyond 30 second newsbites and hearsay. Yet, Chomsky himself, stated that Americans are not lacking in desire or intelligence when it comes to team sports ( a sector that has an insane amount of choices), so maybe the problem is the micro system in question: computer industry, election process, etc. Democrats and Republicans go at each other no differently than mac fans and M$ fans. I think their behavior, taken as a whole in America, are very typical of human behavior where they HAVE to chose to get work done, or to do their patriotic duty, and yet know all too well they simply would choose something else if given that chance (of course they do but either don't get software support, Linux, or a winning "team," 3rd party candidate).

I find too many commentators putting people down and not taking as critical or poignant look at the corporate, political or economic system that we are all subject to dealing with. Point in context: M$ is a monopoly that the courts nor congress have taken any critical look or action against. Apple is the only major player to offer a choice (Linux not withstanding) and because they have an incredibly small market share, don't act in the interests of all people (latest macbook without firewire as an example). I do agree with your analysis, but would caution that using one study on the human brain as a bases for your sarcasm is a bit premature for extrapolating an understanding on human behavior in the computing industry.

I hope you're advisory work for global corporate interests is better researched, or maybe that's why the global marketplace is screwed up. ;)

[Alex Alexzander]

Recently, I bought a MacBook to give the platform another chance at my own personal use computer platform. Right off, I spoke about the problems with the keyboard not sensing all keystrokes. The Apple forum quickly had two types of people reply. Those who knew about the issue and were just as frustrated as I was. Furthermore, those who claim to have never heard of the problem. My friend being one of them. When I got tired of it, I told my friend, I am going to post the MacBook on Ebay and get rid of it. He immediately offered to buy it. I said, I just told you how much the keyboard is a problem. You still want to buy it? He said, yes, and that his girlfriend also has the problem, and they have learned to deal with it. It?s not that bad, he said. So my friend who claimed to have never heard of the problem, now admitted to being familiar with the problem. How interesting.

Another based his hate of the PC purely on the OS. I asked him what was so different about the Mac that made it so much better. He simply said it looks better. Vista?s Aero might not be for all, but I hardly think Aero is ugly. It looks pretty darn great to me.

Microsoft are copy cats. Well, the two big Microsoft products are Windows and Office. And on the enterprise Office and Outlook. In short their server software. Atari had a GUI. Amiga had a GUI. Apple has a GUI, and Microsoft has a GUI. Apple got the idea from Xerox. Apple and Xerox entered into a deal where Xerox benefited from Apple?s ideas at using a GUI. Apple did not steal this from XEROX. They were invited and made something much better. It would be fair to say Xerox is merely an inspiration. However, that doesn?t mean no one else could be inspired. Clearly Atari was. Clearly Commodore was. Clearly Berkley Softworks, GEOS was. And so clearly Microsoft too would be. Was Apple first with the Lisa? Perhaps. However, I don?t see people crying foul over the iPod vs Creative for the concept of a hardware MP3 player. Clearly, the RIO 500 was out a long time before the iPod. Basically, if Apple copies something, it?s okay. It?s Apple stepping in and popularizing something. If Microsoft steps in and makes popular the GUI, suddenly it?s a bad thing. This is the logic of a fanboi. You ether hold people accountable across the board, or you don?t hold them accountable at all. Otherwise, you?re just a hypocrite. Look at Final Cut Pro versus Avid. Multicam was invented on Avid. Apple merely copied the feature. Furthermore, not just Multicam. Do you honestly think that the concepts of Offline Media and Online Media, were not already created by someone else? Furthermore, the list goes on. All companies copy from one another. It?s simply a reality. However, to call this out only when it suits your jaded point of view shows you as a simple person oblivious of the larger reality around you.

The fact of the matter is, I bought 2 laptops for the price of a MacBook. Furthermore, I could very easily buy 3 towers for the price of one Mac tower. The fact is, I can get the same or better software for less. Furthermore, the fact of the matter is I can easily get better expansion, better functionality, and more bang for my buck on the PC. You fanbois want to pretend that is not what is actually happening here, be my guest.

Alex Alexzander

[ChrisMatyszczyk]

Oh, Rufus,

You are right. The global screwup is pretty much entirely my fault. I will work harder to get it right.

I apologize.

Chris

[CrashPad63]

Fanboi alert!!!

[Alex Alexzander]

It?s always amusing to hear from Mac users the reasons why they switched. ?Windows crashes too much.? ?I wanted a machine that just works.? ?Windows is fugly.? ?Microsoft are copy-cats.? ?Macs are cheaper than Windows PC if you add up the features you get in a Mac.?

You may be former PC users whom have switched but that doesn?t make your argument any more valid at all. It merely means you have at least used Windows in the past. I can also say I have used a Mac. However, it would be more accurate to say I have and still use a Mac, and I prefer a PC over the Mac. There is no argument you Mac users can make that will change the facts you people so easily lie about. Which only show how swayed you all are.

Example:

My HP 2133 and my Toshiba Satellite both combined cost $1.00 less than a single MacBook for $1,299. Both the HP and the Toshiba offer an Express Card 34/54 for whatever need, I have. Presently being used for a Verizon Broadband card. The MacBook lacks this feature entirely. The Toshiba comes with 3 GBs of RAM standard. It comes with a 250 GB drive standard. It comes with 15.4? screen standard. Vista Home Premium Edition is also standard. Built in web cam and mic standard.
The HP 2133 came with 2 GB standard. A 120 GB HD standard. An 8.9" 1280x768 screen standard. Windows Vista Business Edition is standard. Furthermore, a web cam with mic is also standard.
On the software side, I can run OpenOffice 3 for free. I can use Picassa for free. I can use iTunes for free if I wanted, but I like Zune Subscriptions better, which Apple doesn?t offer. Microsoft has pretty much the same kinds of free Movie Making and DVD creation software for free. Not that anyone uses this stuff anymore. Folks just upload to YouTube and don?t really create DVDs in my experience. Your millage may vary.

I believe the software you get argument is blown out of the water. You raise the issue we need a virus checker but any PC user will tell you the best ones have free versions. I myself use NOD32 which consumes so little resources you don?t even know it is running. It?s merely $39 a year. It will stop any site from loading malicious code. It comes with email scans. It stops any hope of a virus. Even if you were to double-click on a Trojan it will warn you and even after the fact it will site it and help you. A simple $39 app will easily prevent you from getting a virus. I have yet to get one. I have yet to spread one. In short, Virus projection has matured and is easily managed. Therefore, that argument is pretty much over. The only people getting viruses are the stupid.

I have not seen a blue screen of death Since NT 4.0. Furthermore, I?d like to remind Mac users that when we had NT 4.0 Apple merely had a OS 7.6 ? through 9.2.2. All of which are cooperative, not preemptive multi-tasking operating systems. If you Mac users are going to sit here and lie which is better, feel free. However, NT 4.0 for all its faults easily bests OS 7 through 9. While we did have blue screens, the Mac has been far worse. It would simply freeze and we?d be wondering what happened. Kind of like a kernel panic without the assistance of a screen to tell you not to sit there and waste time. Modern day operations systems such as Windows 2000, XP, and Vista are so stable I can count on one hand the times the system has truly crashed. The same can be said for the dual G5 I have. It has beach-balled and experienced a kernel panic on me much more often than you guys care to admit to yourselves. Macs are not all red roses. My best friend will tell me his Mac is great. No problems. I should switch back. Then I will read a forum post from him saying how his screen has bars, keeps having problems forcing him to reboot, and how it is frustrating him to no end. He?ll say that on a forum, but will never repeat such a thing to me. Why is that? The answer is simple. He loves his Mac and is willing to paint an unrealistic portrait of his happiness with it for the sake the propping the platform up. Windows users in my experience will tell you the good and the bad without hesitation. We?re not fan bois like you Mac users are. Furthermore, the funny part is, you Mac users often acknowledge this by saying things like, ?PC users just use PCs while Mac users WAN to use their computers.? ?Mac users LOVE to use their Macs, while PC users don?t.? I?d agree with both of those, and it?s not a compliment to you Mac Fanbois state of mind. The fact that you guys think you are part of a club is a marketer?s wet dream. They basically created a cause and you guys fell for it. You fall so hard for it, you lie about the experience.

(continued)

Alex Alexzander

[Alex Alexzander]

Recently, I bought a MacBook to give the platform another chance at my own personal use computer platform. Right off, I spoke about the problems with the keyboard not sensing all keystrokes. The Apple forum quickly had two types of people reply. Those who knew about the issue and were just as frustrated as I was. Furthermore, those who claim to have never heard of the problem. My friend being one of them. When I got tired of it, I told my friend, I am going to post the MacBook on Ebay and get rid of it. He immediately offered to buy it. I said, I just told you how much the keyboard is a problem. You still want to buy it? He said, yes, and that his girlfriend also has the problem, and they have learned to deal with it. It?s not that bad, he said. So my friend who claimed to have never heard of the problem, now admitted to being familiar with the problem. How interesting.

Another based his hate of the PC purely on the OS. I asked him what was so different about the Mac that made it so much better. He simply said it looks better. Vista?s Aero might not be for all, but I hardly think Aero is ugly. It looks pretty darn great to me.

Microsoft are copy cats. Well, the two big Microsoft products are Windows and Office. And on the enterprise Office and Outlook. In short their server software. Atari had a GUI. Amiga had a GUI. Apple has a GUI, and Microsoft has a GUI. Apple got the idea from Xerox. Apple and Xerox entered into a deal where Xerox benefited from Apple?s ideas at using a GUI. Apple did not steal this from XEROX. They were invited and made something much better. It would be fair to say Xerox is merely an inspiration. However, that doesn?t mean no one else could be inspired. Clearly Atari was. Clearly Commodore was. Clearly Berkley Softworks, GEOS was. And so clearly Microsoft too would be. Was Apple first with the Lisa? Perhaps. However, I don?t see people crying foul over the iPod vs Creative for the concept of a hardware MP3 player. Clearly, the RIO 500 was out a long time before the iPod. Basically, if Apple copies something, it?s okay. It?s Apple stepping in and popularizing something. If Microsoft steps in and makes popular the GUI, suddenly it?s a bad thing. This is the logic of a fanboi. You ether hold people accountable across the board, or you don?t hold them accountable at all. Otherwise, you?re just a hypocrite. Look at Final Cut Pro versus Avid. Multicam was invented on Avid. Apple merely copied the feature. Furthermore, not just Multicam. Do you honestly think that the concepts of Offline Media and Online Media, were not already created by someone else? Furthermore, the list goes on. All companies copy from one another. It?s simply a reality. However, to call this out only when it suits your jaded point of view shows you as a simple person oblivious of the larger reality around you.

The fact of the matter is, I bought 2 laptops for the price of a MacBook. Furthermore, I could very easily buy 3 towers for the price of one Mac tower. The fact is, I can get the same or better software for less. Furthermore, the fact of the matter is I can easily get better expansion, better functionality, and more bang for my buck on the PC. You fanbois want to pretend that is not what is actually happening here, be my guest.

Alex Alexzander

[Dylan_Wisor]

So tell me then. Why do we Mac "Fanbois" love our Macs despite the fact that the evidence of Microsoft's superiority is so OBVIOUSL?

I assume you're going to make some disparaging remark about stupidity, self-denial, etc. etc. So any reply that's made will go in one ear and out the other. Congratulations, you just redefined the term "fanboy" for me.

PS: I'm typing this from my XP machine right now. My MacBook is to my left.

[rufusrm44]

Thanks for proving my point, Alex. Virtually every experienced PC user is psyched about their pc. I agree with you on one point... Choice and price of product. (oops! Sorry, I guess two points). I use xp pro at work and find it a joke. I use, and have used macs for years in my personal business and find it good, but a tad bit limiting on options. But to my point: if I had to start from scratch with either system, the pc would be hell to get a handle on, and simply isn't workflow productive until, YES, UNTIL, I fully appreciate and can manipulate it's varied options AND remove the bloat that is M$. The mac is clean and fairly easy to use WITHOUT having to learn too much about computing. Creative people get this, but computer geeks take offense to this. Every pc user that was psyched about their CHEAP pc, after a few years, was bummed it was a pile. Virtually every mac user can still be productive, assuming the software companies don't make their hardware obsolete. Case in point deals with RAW images in adobe in that they update their RAW conversions to the current software versions they run meaning if you buy a new camera you have to buy their new software, which, of course requires new hardware... very brilliant marketing-wise, but a ripoff none-the-less. (sorry for the tangent) I agree that Apple has their customer over a barrel regarding marketing and product fanaticism, but it's not entirely unfounded, in that their system is clean, and doesn't require too much tweaking to be productive. I've spoken candidly to at least 4 M$ certified tech and IT guys and they all say the same thing: M$ makes their system confusing on purpose to justify the support staff who profit off of their customers, and this does double duty in that, especially in IT, if you are certified on windows you will most likely recommend the windows you are certified on to keep working on the windows you know so well. It's brilliant, but it doesn't speak of anything meaningful in the OS operational side of things.

Just remember one thing, with 86% of OS' running windows and something like 5% running Mac, most likely most mac users have used windows, and used it a fair amount, and most windows users have never used a mac. I think that speaks for itself.

BTW, Thanks Chris, I'm glad you'll fix the world for us now! I look forward to 2009 and the new corporate outlook you'll instill in all of them! ;) (my point, and sorry I was not concise, is that oftentimes marketplace conditions dictate the situation more than the attitudes of those you speak about...and that we humans are reacting within a construct that we don't really control to any meaningful extent or have much say in)

[Mark_Anderson]

I think you miss Alex's point - we don't get psyched up about PCs because we expect them to work and they do. It's the same reason I don't get psyched up about my car or my refrigerator or my television because they're functional objects designed to perform tasks which they do very well - my car gets me to work, my refrigerator keeps my milk cold and my television lets me watch Sky Sports just as my PC lets me run the apps and games I want.

When you venerate the tool over what it's actually there for then you have a problem.

[Dalkorian]

Wow Alex, that's a lot of words to say "I'm a M$ fanboi". Did you actually expect anyone to suffer all that?

[tonyv414]

The whole thing is rather silly to me, but I guress it is good for the marketing boys.
I do a lot of multi-tasking all day long and my home office runs both Mac and pc environments, 24/7. My pc systems are multi-boots w/xp, vista, and ubuntu capabilities. But I must admit, my mainstay on pc is still XP and Office 2003 products for work tasks. (simple force of habit)
But its a busy world for me - I might be doing some audio/visual work on the Mac and trading stock or watching some video on the pc's at the same time.
Which is best? I like them all when they are running and when they aren't, I enjoy finding the problems and fixing them. And, contrary to rumor, they ALL have occasional problems!
Lot's of folks have completely different types of cars in their garages - why not the same for computers?
It's a complicated world....deal with it.

[renGek]

I'm a microsoft .Net developer by profession. I don't love microsoft but the work is very marketable and pays very well so I'm more than happy to sell out. I have an ipod in my car because that is the interface that my car supports. I don't love apple either but thats what works best with my car. I have a portable video player from archos instead of apple because I think its superior. I don't love archos either. I use what makes sense.

I don't know why people choose a side and then believe they are forbidden to use products from the other side. I also don't understand people having problems with windows because I "never" had any major problems with PCs in the last 20 years that I have used them. And I am on any one of my PCs for more than 10 hours/day. I don't find PCs any better than macs. I have been using Macs for the last 25 years. I don't issues there either but I also don't find them any more "oh wow its so easy and fast and friendly" than a PC. I like macs but that doesn't mean I'm going to buy every apple product out there. But I'm not going to avoid the ones I like either.

[JimMcDish]

I have been a die hard Microsoft fan since Windows 3.1 and I still have my original disks! However, I recently bought an IPhone 3G and think Apple has come up with the coolest thing since sliced bread! I am actually looking into Macbooks and considering buying one. IPhone made me a believer.

Jiff
www.anonymity.cz.tc

[CrashPad63]

Believer of spending for overpriced overhyped junk?

[sebastien.kalonji]

I hate Windows because the users say dumb things like "but with a mac you can't go on the internet" or "Mac are only used by pro's". I hated the popularity of Windows but now I hate all those switchers that don't want to be PC :-)

[Jemmyfax]

Yep, that's exactly what I get.
'Macs are too expensive and only good for graphics and there's no software'

I will admit though, that's EXACTLY the position I was once in. I had never actually used one while saying/believing this.

[pdskep]

Right Jemmy,

When I recently realized that Mac users are finally going to be able to stream Netflix, a feature I've been enjoying for about a year, I realized my decision not to look back and get a Mac was a wise one.

[CrashPad63]

Sounds to me like you cant seem to put two sentences together.