Comments on: Demise of the solid-state Linux Netbook
Back in the day, Netbooks ran Linux and packed solid-state drives. But Windows XP and large hard disk drives have prevailed.
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This is written with a very range of the moment viewpoint. Sure, SSDs that only allow your drive to be 16 gigs won't cut it for many people so it'll be an early adopter thing. But the smallest step in computing advances is a factor of two, and an order of magnitude is never far away. From 16 gigs to 64 is just two doublings, and that's probably about where the handoff will take place.
Even installing a ton of modern programs takes up very little space, and even a decent music collection doesn't take up much. How many people are carrying around 50+ gigs of media? When you can sell a 64 gig SSD netbook without a big premium, game over. That's what, a year away maybe? At 128, they'll probably completely replace hard drives in small-sized laptops.
As I type this from my MacOS Dell Netbook with a 32G SSD in it, I could not be happier. Sure it cost me an extra $60 or so to get the upgrade from 8G to 32G, but the OS is using less than 12 (including Microsoft Office:Mac and some other stuff) and I have plenty left over.
To top it off, all of my media is sitting on a 16G SD card in the SD slot, so I have my music collection and a couple of movies that I intend to watch on my next plane trip.
And, as the SSD's come down in price, this will be more common. The beauty is that they are REALLY fast (this thing resumes from standby almost instantly since there is no disk to spin up), the battery lasts longer and there are no moving parts at all in the Netbook.
Would a 160G hard disk in my netbook have done me any better? Nope. I haven't even started to fill up the space that I have now, and if I need more, a 32G SD card won't be far away.
They're also prone to painful delays when they go offline for garbage collection (part of the wear leveling function that keeps frequently written files from wearing out individual sectors on the device).
Some netbook flash disks are little more than USB thumb drives. It's all a matter of cost reduction.
Anyway, I said all this back in January. The netbook is dead.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13512_3-10145482-23.html
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The Dell Mini9 (Vostro A90) and the Dell Mini 10V seem to be the "most compatible with the least trouble" out there.
But...
technically in violation of the EULA. So don't rip off the OS, go buy it at the Apple store. At least they get something!
You have won the Most Ridiculous Column of the day award!...At least in terms of it's title. Solid State netbooks are nowhere near their demise, if anything the prospect of a Google Chrome OS supporting x86 as well as ARM restores their luster, vigor and viability. Netbooks were never intended to be a laptop or personal computer replacement but rather to serve as the medium between the iPod/PDA/Smartphone and the fully functional laptop. Anyone who mistook a netbook for a a replacement of either a PC or notebook was well deserving the misery that insued after they realized what they purchased. ARM processors continue to evolve and are now approaching GHz speeds added with the lessening costs of SSDs (6 months ago a 64GB SSD would run about $200-350 whereas now you can get double that capacity for around $350. Seems like quite a reduction if you ask me. Add onto that the upcoming WebKit operating systems like Palm's WebOS, Google Chrome OS, and possibly even microsofts Gazelle...ALL OF WHICH RUN OFF OF THE LINUX KERNEL...netbooks my misinformed friend are here to stay for quite a while.
With that much capacity, you can install OpenOffice 3.0 and still have lots of disk space left so you can at least get work done without having to constantly be connected to the Internet. Indeed, I expect the Chrome OS to use a fair amount of disk space, especially if they throw in OpenOffice and some sort of media player program.
I love this machine. None of the time-consuming problems that I have had with Windows. Boot-up time is great as is battery life. The guy who wrote this article really has it badly wrong, in my opinion. Windows is over-complicated, sluggish and a real POS (again just my opinion, based on personal experience and not claimed to be an authoritative statement)
With the netbooks there is also the fact that the bigger HD's and Windows increased the price (and almost certainly the profit margin too) which makes it easy for the sales force to say 'you could get this one, but this one had a bigger drive and comes with Windows, so you can run all your software'.
Even though most people will find them too small to do much more than email, surfing, listening/watching media or maybe a bit of office stuff. The sale person will always try to up-sell you to a higher price, and Windows always helps up the price of any system.
Anyway, I said all this back in January. The netbook is dead.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13512_3-10145482-23.html
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spare me any more Linux fans bragging about how great Linux is. I have used Linux and can honestly say its not that bad and it has made great strides. But it still does not compare to OS X or Windows in terms of ease of use, and support. Tech heads will never understand that most consumers don't look past what most people use. Apple has had the most success at breaking the Windows hold. But even so Apple has really done this by introducing Windows users to the iPod and iPhone and bringing on Intel for CPU's so that Windows could run along the side of OS X. That to me would be the only way Linux will ever get any creditbility from consumers. It needs to be able to eather run Windows or run Windows applications as smoothly as they do in Windows.
Google's Chrome will be interesting simply because it takes the core Linux kernel and will then add an interface that is different.
Windows is not the "rest of the world." Other OSes, be it Mac, or Linux (yes, Linux) interoperate fine with Windows.
And why in the world would I want to waste precious disk space on a netbook with bloatware?
Windows is not the "rest of the world." Other OSes, be it Mac, or Linux (yes, Linux) interoperate fine with Windows.
And why in the world would I want to waste precious disk space on a netbook with bloatware?
As for the hole ... Demise of the solid-state Linux Netbook. well I think it just a linux thing. Never really had a chance...
You can say what you want about this or that OS, but the consumer votes and cash are what the OEM's are going to go after.
If all the specs are exactly the same then one of two things is happening.
1)Dell is making more money off the Ubuntu machines
or, more likely
2)Dell is shoveling so much crapware onto the Windows machines that it will barely boot and will most likely crash before you can do more than open the utility to remove programs.
If you're going to tell anyone anything then you should at least be able to communicate your intended message clearly.
Nothing loads faster than code that doesn't even exist, right?
Anyway, I said all this back in January. The netbook is dead.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13512_3-10145482-23.html
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DirectX is proprietary, everyone but Windows is missing that. However, there are plenty of free games developed for Linux which run quite nicely on my machine. By the way, my machine has about as much power as a netbook.
iLife is just a conglomeration of different apps made to look for each other. It doesn't take that much to make apps that look for each other.
Quicktime is proprietary, Apple would have to code a Quicktime player for Linux. Of course, I'm using Linux now, haven't had any instance where I needed Quicktime (imagine that).
Now, if you're going to make a comment that Linux can't do what Windows or Mac OS can, you might want to actually give good examples. My Linux system has good games, fully 3 dimensional with easy to use controls which runs very nicely on hardware comparable to a netbook. My Linux system allows me to be connected on a higher level than Windows ever did. My Linux system runs more smoothly than Windows ever did (that means more uptime).
Linux systems boot more quickly, run more smoothly and don't have nearly as much downtime as Windows and, the best part, Linux is free (not just as in beer).
Of course, if the things you were talking about that Windows can do included getting more than 30 viruses in less than a minute, slowing down and needing a defrag roughly once a week, having a corrupted registry to the point your machine doesn't function or allowing someone else full access to your machine with a simple script available all over the internet, then yes, Linux doesn't do those things.
Windows has its place, for now. That place isn't on my machine, its on the machines of so many others who have asked for my help.
Funny that, once they've been educated enough on how to keep a Windows machine up and running, Linux seems so much easier to them. I don't even exaggerate what needs to be done.
For a large percentage of people Linux is not an option. Linux is great for people who have technical skills. Personally I love linux but I would never give my parents (or any other non technical person) a Linux machine and try to explain to them how to troubleshoot any problems they come across. For those people the only option is a Mac.
Which distro would you be giving them? There are a few I've come across that wouldn't require troubleshooting beyond the original installation and, even then, I haven't seen the need for troubleshooting at all.
Set them up with Ubuntu, add in the repositories for the apps they'd need that aren't included by default, install apps, walk away.
The only people I don't give Linux to are the people who I'm not in the same room with. It's never been about what happens after it's installed, it's just getting them set up in the first place. That's just my experiences though.
Users who didn't know any better bought them. And then most of those users returned them because they were darn near useless.
That's why Woot.com has a bazillion reconditioned Eee PCs and Acer Aspire Ones for sale, and why they're priced at $150. Nobody wants them otherwise.
Anyway, I said all this back in January. The netbook is dead.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13512_3-10145482-23.html
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Perhaps you don't know how woot.com works. I've seen high end stereo equipment, USB sticks with high amounts of memory, wine, just checked and saw a Philips 47? Full HD 1080p LCD TV with Pixel Plus HD, all for well under the amount they would normally be sold for. That doesn't mean nobody wants them, it just means there's an overstock for someone and they need to make room.
By the way, saying the netbook is dead just shows the rest of us your wish, it doesn't clue us in to reality. Obviously you're not clued in to reality yourself.
Most consumers don't care about the OS wars. They just want something that will work. On a netbook, that means web access, email, youtube, running searches, and buying stuff like music. Linux, especially when pre-installed, can do all that nicely and securely. So PART OF THE PROBLEM is media voices prematurely heralding the demise of Linux or the end of the SSD.
Microsoft has played hardball, with huge advantages going in, against Linux (a FREE OS after all!). And Linux still came out of nowhere and put a new category of internet device on the map. Will the netbook become a smallish laptop with all bells and whistles (huge harddrive, big cpu, lots of RAM) or will the netbook "be done right" (Linus Torvalds), meaning a CHEAP and fast NET device? Microsoft obviously favors the former.
Consumers just need to get clued in on the possibilities of Web 2.0--cloud computing, and social software like Diigo and Twitter; it will just take a while for the vast Wal-Mart hordes to figure out that they don't need $300.00 of MS-Office programs or a huge, resource hungry MS-Windows OS to do all the fun and cool stuff on the web. And maybe businesses will get a clue too as the Linux development world continues to mature.
The GIMP actually provides more than enough functionality for the majority of users and you can use Photoshop CS2 with WINE.
http://luiscosio.com/how-to-adobe-photoshop-cs2-on-ubuntu-10-steps
Since most people will be perfectly fine with the huge amount of functionality currently available with the GIMP, setting up photoshop through WINE can be saved as a last resort.
By the way, I noticed you didn't mention checking the Ubuntu forums and asking about using photoshop on Ubuntu or what graphics programs were recommended. I also noticed you didn't mention which version of Ubuntu you're using or how long you've "tried" to use it.
I used Windows from 95 through XP, that's slightly over a decade. I used to think Windows was easy until I actually gave Linux a real try. I'm using Ubuntu 9.04, have set up everything I could possibly need, have learned how to use the GIMP and have fewer headaches than I ever did when I used Windows.
Do me a favor, before you complain that something's too hard, sit back, check the Ubuntu forums, do a Google search, maybe two, and realize Linux means you're not alone. You're not the only artist to ever have used Linux, not the first person who's thought about going back to Windows because photoshop doesn't work natively in Linux. Give it a shot, do a little exploration and relax. It gets so much easier when you realize just how good it can be.
Silly question but what is Linux's colour profile management like? Can you profile devices to ensure colour accuracy through calibration?
"Most of us" is easy to define as the 97% to 98% of the population who avoid using Linux despite the fact that it is free.
While it is easy for you to claim that GIMP has more than enough functionality for most people - I am a fairly average user and I can assure you that it does not have enough functionality for me. Since a lot more people are prepared to pay the huge cost of Photoshop rather than use the free GIMP I suspect I am not alone in this opinion.
So I can run Photoshop in Wine. Hmmm - you are suggesting that I add another layer of complexity to the task. Your reference details 10 steps to do it in. You do realize that my first thought is why wouldn't I make it easier on myself and just install it in OS X?
You don't seem to appreciate the irony in the advice that you give - that I should check the Linux forums, Google search, maybe two, and realize that Linux means I am not alone. I have had to do exactly that. I along with most of the non-Linux world call that a hassle. It is precisely what I mean when I say that Ubuntu is a nightmare. I (and many others) don't want to muddle through the often inadequate or confusing geek speak that we find in Linux forums. We do not want any forums, we want things to just work and do all of the job we want it to instead of looking for plug ins and advice about how to install them.
I too have Ubuntu 9.04. I found a distro that was preinstalled with both graphics and office applications to make it easier on me but unlike you I do not like the aesthetics of the OS nor the difficulties I experience compared to the OS X world, although I also find Windows XP more user friendly. In XP I never have to seek advice on forums on how to install or use something. I don't see why I should when there are 2 OS'es available that make my life easier.
I know those with greater than average computer experience tend to have no issues with using Linux and passionately advocate its use. What is not thought about enough is the reason why most of the rest of us avoid Linux despite the fact that it is free. It is less about familiarity and more about user friendliness and avoiding having to deal with Linux forums etc.
This article wasn't about Linux in general and its usability. It was about Linux and its inability to conquer a market that appeared, at least at one time, tailor made for its small footprint and ability to perform well on slower processors.
You mention 97% who avoid Linux. I've talked with many people online, in person, on the phone and when I mention that I'm using Linux, the vast majority have the same question "what's that?".
They're not avoiding Linux, they just don't know about it. The reason they don't know about it is very simple, nobody told them about it.
Now, being an artist, I'm going to assume you have a good imagination. I want you to imagine something. I want you to imagine growing up with Linux instead of Windows. You're used to finding all your software through repositories, installing it from them, using it immediately, no restart required. I want you to imagine being able to surf the web and ask questions if there's something you need to do, find out the shortcomings of a piece of software, get help determining the best tool for the job, all for free.
I want you to imagine that you've always been able to upgrade your entire OS just by clicking a few buttons, maybe downloading the newest distro, and that, if you wanted to try out a different version, you could compare and contrast and install the different version for free as well.
Now, imagine that one day you decided to try Windows. You install it, look for the package manager so you can download some apps but you don't find one. You go online, not realizing you need an Antivirus program, and immediately get a virus so, you do a search and try and find out what to do. You look up Antivirus and find AVG free. You have to download from the website, install it, update it, run it, realize how slow it makes your computer, quarantine the file it says to and now you think you're safe.
You've removed the virus from your machine and promptly get one that takes advantage of the new Active X vulnerability and AVG free doesn't catch it. You've also managed to contract spyware and other malware on your computer because you weren't running an antispyware app and AVG free didn't catch all the malware trying to infiltrate your system.
You've been running Linux all your life, used to being able to surf the web without catching viruses, without catching malware or spyware. However, you give it the benefit of the doubt that Windows is just used more and so the bad guys must just focus on them.
Now, you decide you want some games but you have no idea where to go. With Linux you could just open the package manager, find Games, install some and be playing them at the end of, at most, an hour.
You decide to talk to your friend on IM and see what advice they have so you look in your list of available programs and can't find the default IM program. Windows doesn't have one installed, you have to search for them.
You decide you want to write an email to MS to let them know you're disappointed that your version of Windows was missing such key features as a package manager and an IM client and, since your ISP gives you an email adress, you decide it's time to set it up so you look for your default email client and find out there isn't one (Outlook Express has to be installed and does not come as a default program).
Now you're really mad so you're going to write a letter. You go to look for your Office App, knowing that any good OS has an Office App installed. After all, everyone needs one of those and nobody would purchase an OS without one, right? Wrong again, Windows doesn't have one installed.
You look for the Windows forums and ask if anyone else has had these problems. Each person who responds doesn't know what a package manager is or ridicules you and says that Linux is so hard to use. They laugh when you say that your email client was missing and when you ask why Windows doesn't include an office app, they wonder what all you were expecting from your OS and tell you that you have to go out and buy one but that there's a student discount.
Now, imagine that 97% of people you were mentioning having that experience. Linux isn't a chore, Windows is. Linux has better than "professional" support, it has personal support. It even has the majority of apps necessary installed by default including the GIMP.
People don't avoid Linux, they just don't know about it.
You mention 97% who avoid Linux. I've talked with many people online, in person, on the phone and when I mention that I'm using Linux, the vast majority have the same question "what's that?".
They're not avoiding Linux, they just don't know about it. The reason they don't know about it is very simple, nobody told them about it.
Now, being an artist, I'm going to assume you have a good imagination. I want you to imagine something. I want you to imagine growing up with Linux instead of Windows. You're used to finding all your software through repositories, installing it from them, using it immediately, no restart required. I want you to imagine being able to surf the web and ask questions if there's something you need to do, find out the shortcomings of a piece of software, get help determining the best tool for the job, all for free.
I want you to imagine that you've always been able to upgrade your entire OS just by clicking a few buttons, maybe downloading the newest distro, and that, if you wanted to try out a different version, you could compare and contrast and install the different version for free as well.
Now, imagine that one day you decided to try Windows. You install it, look for the package manager so you can download some apps but you don't find one. You go online, not realizing you need an Antivirus program, and immediately get a virus so, you do a search and try and find out what to do. You look up Antivirus and find AVG free. You have to download from the website, install it, update it, run it, realize how slow it makes your computer, quarantine the file it says to and now you think you're safe.
You've removed the virus from your machine and promptly get one that takes advantage of the new Active X vulnerability and AVG free doesn't catch it. You've also managed to contract spyware and other malware on your computer because you weren't running an antispyware app and AVG free didn't catch all the malware trying to infiltrate your system.
You've been running Linux all your life, used to being able to surf the web without catching viruses, without catching malware or spyware. However, you give it the benefit of the doubt that Windows is just used more and so the bad guys must just focus on them.
Now, you decide you want some games but you have no idea where to go. With Linux you could just open the package manager, find Games, install some and be playing them at the end of, at most, an hour.
You decide to talk to your friend on IM and see what advice they have so you look in your list of available programs and can't find the default IM program. Windows doesn't have one installed, you have to search for them.
You decide you want to write an email to MS to let them know you're disappointed that your version of Windows was missing such key features as a package manager and an IM client and, since your ISP gives you an email adress, you decide it's time to set it up so you look for your default email client and find out there isn't one (Outlook Express has to be installed and does not come as a default program).
Now you're really mad so you're going to write a letter. You go to look for your Office App, knowing that any good OS has an Office App installed. After all, everyone needs one of those and nobody would purchase an OS without one, right? Wrong again, Windows doesn't have one installed.
You look for the Windows forums and ask if anyone else has had these problems. Each person who responds doesn't know what a package manager is or ridicules you and says that Linux is so hard to use. They laugh when you say that your email client was missing and when you ask why Windows doesn't include an office app, they wonder what all you were expecting from your OS and tell you that you have to go out and buy one but that there's a student discount.
Now, imagine that 97% of people you were mentioning having that experience. Linux isn't a chore, Windows is. Linux has better than "professional" support, it has personal support. It even has the majority of apps necessary installed by default including the GIMP.
People don't avoid Linux, they just don't know about it.
@kelmon
http://jcornuz.wordpress.com/category/tutorials/
one Google search is all it takes.
When netbooks became available, the early buyers were mostly people with a technical background or interest. The public in general was hardly aware of them. So Linux was OK.
MS realized the threat and practically gave XP away for free ($15 ?).
Stores now had the option to stock TWO versions of every netbook with a minimal price difference and educate sales people about the differences. Every netbook sale would involve educating the customer about the differences. And all this for a minimal price difference.
Or a store could choose to only stock netbooks with XP, knowing that most Linux users could wipe off XP and install what they wanted. Many would have done so anyway, replacing Xandros or whatever with their favorite distribution.
If you owned a store, which option would you choose ?
The real question is:
How many netbooks sold with XP have Linux installed later ?
If you believe DELL's figures, my guess would be around 30%.
A netbook is just that, a device that requires the net to work. We had folks laugh at the prospect of a smart phone in the days before GSM and even when GPRS phones were already out - today phones like the iPhone and Blackberries have silenced those foolish enough to have said 'never'. Netbooks are simply the same concept but focused on the Internet itself, unlike mobile phones.
With Google entering this market, Cloud just before that, and Microsoft certainly not sitting idle, you can bet this genre of computer platform will take off hugely soon. Network penetration and phone sophistication may see it merge with mobile phones into a single platform one day, but my money is on the Netbooks being here to stay for a while, regardless form factor.
One last issue - must it always become a Linux vs Windows bash?
The SSDs sold in those early, unsuccessful netbooks were more like USB flash drives. Cheap, slow, and with unknown long-term reliability.
Anyway, I said all this back in January. The netbook is dead.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13512_3-10145482-23.html
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- by fdunn3 July 28, 2009 3:57 PM PDT
- SSDs are wonderful and all but they wear out faster than a typical magnetic spinng HDD. On top of this to have a fast SSD you need a MLC type and they are not cheap now and if you have been paying attention to DIGITIMES forecast for FLASH it is getting more expnesive in the short term.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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(54 Comments)As far as how much the OS needs that is not the only code on a NetBook. I bought my NetBook (Asus PC1000HE, upgraded to 2GB RAM) and I use it to store digital photos when the Flash Card fills up. It not only stores a whole lot of pictures but I can also edit them on the spot and take those I want to get printed or upload them.
My Camera holds a 2GB Flash Card and I use it for both digital stills and MPEG video so I can fill up a card pretty quick. Even with all the software I have on my 160GB HDD (which I plan on upgrading to a 320GB) I can store 50 cards worth of digital imagery. Do that on a 32 or 64 GB Flash Drive.
Oh and BTW it's not the data that is going to kill you SSD prematurely it's the page file. I don't know about you but I use more than on app at a time and the NetBook just keeps on keepin' on.