Comments on: Is Apple's Mac Mini a MacBook inside?

Apple's latest Mac Mini desktop uses parts designed for mobile PCs, according to iSuppli.

[elllroy]

and this is news? the mac mini is using notebook parts? you're kidding.
well, news flash, this information has been available for about three years now, at the moment the mini arrived it was teared down by ifixit and other sites.

and how do "PC competitors that offer more features for less money"
you mean features like:
- viruses and worms
- vista
- no resale value after 3 years
- no iLife and mac os x
- cheap glued together plastic

ah forgot, it's my fault - you mean ghz and gb

[jfrdricks2009]

Who needs Ilife when you have google?

[Random_Walk]

actually you missed out on why the Mac Mini costs more for what it contains:

No grey-market or "house brand" parts.

Dell and HP manage to offer "more features" because they skimp on everything that isn't the magic numbers required to "exceed spec". This means that basically only the CPU (Intel) and maybe the video chip (NVIDIA or ATI) is up to spec and QA standard... everything else (mobo, RAM, HDD, etc) are cheap parts.

This is why you can still use almost any MacBook Pro made 5-8 years later, but the numbers of surviving Dells and HP's of a given model tend to drop off dramatically (or require parts) after just 3-5.

[Seaspray0]

No, it's not a notebook. Dell has done this type of setup before, years ago... putting laptop parts into a mini-desktop. This is not the first time this has been done. Apple is finding out what dell found out; that it's not as easy to sell. Sure, it's smaller, but it costs more, is hard to upgrade components, and tends to offer less ports and memory slots. Dell finally gave up, due to low sales, and went back to a standard case and nobody considered it related to a laptop.

[pithenumber]

I can offer "more features" and use high quality components (ASUS/GIGABYTE mobos, Graphics Cards from trustworthy companies like XFX, EVGA, Sapphire, and a couple others, quality PSU's, Seagate and WD HDD's, AMD/Intel CPU's, Kingston/Mushkin/Corsair RAM, ...) The only thing I might skimp on is the case, but high quality cases are available if you really want to pay more.

I have surviving computers from the days of the original Pentium and even a bit before that
I think a MS fanboy got Win7 "working" on the Pentium, 30 minute boot time isn't really what working though, P3 systems are the slowest that you can run Win7 on and still use it.

[SteveW928]

@ Seaspray0 & pithenumber -

You've obviously never really looked at or used a mini.
They are selling fine... they are awesome computers... just like the notebooks they are based on.

[seven7dust]

@pithenumber
but will it it as small and power efficient
will it come with that Apple quality custom care etc
will it last as long ? will it have any resale value at all ?
and above all will it come with a full working copy of OSX
cause thats the reason why people buy Macs in the first place !
I know that system builders like you care about specs and stuff but the average user won't !
and the mini specs are fine for 90% of the consumers {other than HD size}

[kelmon]

Agreed - this article is a "no news" article because this information has been known ever since the Mac Mini was released - it uses notebook components. I think the only exception, at least with the original Minis compared to the then MacBooks was that the Core Duo processor sat in a socket on the Mini and could be replaced (such as with the Core 2 Duos that came along later) whereas they are soldered to the logic board in the notebooks. But is was still a mobile processor that the computer used.

[Random_Walk]

"I can offer "more features" and use high quality components..."

Sure - scrounge around in newegg or pricewatch. Spend the time waiting for the parts to arrive, build them patiently yourself, and etc.

...and wind up with something larger, noisier, and far more power-hungry. I have a Hackintosh that came together that way.

Now let's see Joe Sixpack do that.

[LegatoRedrivers]

No...we mean features like equivalent hardware and software for hundreds less, with the best games and apps always coming out for PC months before they come out for mac, more readily available tech support (where I live, the closest place that will even ~touch~ a mac is like, 70 miles away) and, oh yeah...the fact that 90% of problems that occur with a PC happen because the user was doing something they shouldn't have been. That's why Apple computers are perfect...for users who don't know what they're doing.

[Random_Walk]

"No...we mean features like equivalent hardware and software for hundreds less, with the best games"

...all you have to do is show us where you can get that, in the same form factor.

[solitare_pax]

"Is Apple's Mac Mini a MacBook inside?" - Well, how else could they fit all that power into a small space? For people curious about Macs, it makes a good starter unit, especially with a KVM switch to flip between PC and Mac.

[davidramsay]

Why would I want a KVM - get VMWare Fusion, clone my PC and run it on the Mac Mini in parallel with Mac OS X.

Alternately build yourself a PC in the Boot Camp partition after all you have all the software on your PC and you can run Mac OS X, Windows, or still using VMWare Fusion (or Parallels Desktop) you can run both concurrently.

[Ilgaz]

It is a great developer machine, especially as a starter mac (and free benchmark). Most of hit open source/closed source software are basically coded on a Mac Mini. I know one hugely popular which was created on a Mac Mini G4.

I constantly compile open source software on Intel mini and I am basically amazed in the performance. Even amazingly optimized software like mplayer compiles from source in a time period which some people downloads the binaries.

[krizhek]

@solitare_pax
This is why I got a mac mini. I wanted to start messing around with the mac market. I tried several setups including using a kvm switch which worked out really well for me.

It's also nice to have on my desktop a machine dedicated to the mac and another dedicated to windows.

[BenGrimm1]

Way to collect an easy paycheck, Brooke. Of course it uses laptop parts! Why do so many tech sites give iSuppli's numbers so much credence? Anyone with a 20-sided die and a quick search on newegg.com could make up these prices.

[Beezoo]

Well Brooke. . . If you really consider this either news or quality reporting, I guess I have more cnet writer to be put on permanent ignore. Looks like Don Whats-his-face will have some company.

[blakejacobs]

Brooke.....tell me more about this 'permanent ignore' feature, please.
is that real?
i'd love to be able to block out sub-standard journalists and 'reporters'.

[CroSsFiRe2009]

any body hear of m-itx cases here? hmm, guess not

[Random_Walk]

Yep - now good luck finding parts to fit it with the same (or better) specs, without trolling the grey market, and do it all without paying just as much or more than Apple pays - not counting your time spent in assembling it. Minis, Babies, and such are nice, they have their uses, but a quality rig is often very hard to get, and you're going to have a very hard time finding one in the form factor of a Mac Mini.

[jscott418]

This is the most well said article on the Apple Mac premium price. I think they hit it right on the head.
Apple is very much using many notebook parts in many of its computer. In fact except for the Pro desktop I would guess they all have roots in notebooks. Hence the lack of upgrades to these configurations.
If you want more computer for your money then go with a big box. I still think Apple does a little better in the profit area. We see the parts for a Mac Mini at around $385.00 but Apple selling it for $599. I think that's a pretty good mark up. Especially considering a MacBook White is under a grand with a monitor? I think if Apple dropped the Mac Mini to $500 they would sell a ton more of them.

[somniferous]

The amount that apple is upping the manufacturing costs to selling costs isn't really that much, it's actually less than standard for most industries where selling price is usually double (or a few percentage points more) what any retailer pays. Considering apple is it's own retailer (for the most part) I think the price is fair (costs only 1.56 times what it costs to build). I think apple really needs to start telling people that they only decent parts and no bottom barrel cheap components, because I'm really sick of people just pointing at numbers and saying see I got more for less.

[Seaspray0]

@somniferous. wrong. Apple's profit margin on their products is way above industry standards. That's why they can sell 1/10 the number of product and make a huge profit. You pay for that profit and get nothing in return.

[professionaladventurer]

You do know the mark-up on furniture and jewelry is around 500% and clothing is at 100%. Firearms are around 3% Big electronics (like TV's) are closer to 20%. You are aware of capitalism, of supply and demand?

[SteveW928]

If you want upgrades... you plug them in. VERY FEW people need big boxes with card slots these days. As long as max ram (I think 4GB) is enough for what you'll be doing with it.... who needs to upgrade? That kind of isn't the point of a mini.

[Maclover1]

Seriously who buys desktop computers/ "big box" computers outside of corporations and a few PC gamers any more?

Dont matter how much profit they are making or what you get the same PC with the same internal parts for. What matters is that the Mini is very popular and it sells well. Its called supply and demand.

The mini has some what of a cult following. Its very popular among media center enthusiasts because of its size and it is silent. Hook a Eye TV unit up to it and some people ditch their cable TV.

As for this article its kind of lame. This has been known for a long time. In fact most of the iMac parts, CPU, RAM etc are notebook parts.

[Chapmaniac]

Brooke, allow me to start you on your next assignment, "Is Apple's iMac a MacBook inside?" You can pretty much copy and paste your "findings" from this article into that one.

[tech_crazy]

Good one!

[ikramerica--2008]

The iMac is more of a hybrid. Some laptop parts, some full sized parts.

[Henzapper]

Small PCs use laptop parts...I thought this was info that was known for a really long time. And "better, smaller, and more attractive"? Smaller? Definitely. More attractive? Well, it depends, but yeah, I'll give it that. Better? Besides energy usage, how are laptop parts better? Especially where graphics are concerned, aren't they much less powerful than their desktop counterparts?

[Beezoo]

Especially where graphics are concerned, aren't they much less powerful than their desktop counterparts?

Actually no. I will take a top of the line laptop CPU over a bottom of the line desktop CPU anytime. As far a the graphics go, I wouldn't advise anyone buying a new computer to purchase a one without a GPU with plenty of dedicated RAM regardless of platform.

[pithenumber]

@Beezoo
I would take a low end desktop CPU over a low end laptop one though
Atom vs Athlon X2
<sarcasm>wonder which one is faster?</sarcasm>

[Dick Dangerman]

Re graphics: The NVIDIA GeoForce 9400 M is used in all current Macs with the exception of the Mac Pro and higher-specified 24-inch iMacs. The NVIDIA GeoForce 9600 GT is used in addition to the 9400 M in the 15 & 17-inch MacBook Pros.

[shellcodes_coder]

Actually it's Apple tax, vendor locked OS which is much easier to exploit (that's the reason it's called the world's most advanced OS) INSIDE. Oh yeah...why don't they call it the world's most advanced Mini crapbook?

[Perry_Clease]

DAT

[ckh1272]

@Perry_Clease--I agree 100%. Parents really should keep a better eye on their children when they are on the computer.

[Ilgaz]

all we needed was a troll comment to this article. Thank you.

[pithenumber]

Apple should take the cost down to $500

I bet they'd sell twice as many units
"sub $500 computer" sounds much better than "$600 computer" to budget buyers, trust me

[ikramerica--2008]

And lose money on each one?

Or should they also drop the processor speed and drop FW800 and Gigabit E.net and n-wireless to save money?

[ikramerica--2008]

Also, I was under the impression that FW800 was not supported by the NVidia set natively, so that there is a FW800 controller of some kind (Oxford?) that costs money, but is not listed.

[Ilgaz]

It has high end (for its class) Audio too. Realtek HD audio (they call it codec) with dual output.
I spent some great (!) time setting up Windows 7 64bit and I can assure you that, it is not a standard (put Nvidia chipset, pack it) type of machine. BTW while on it, let me do a favor to CNET readers. Either slipstream nvidia mb drivers somehow (like Intel guys) or don`t even bother with XP SP2 install. It wont boot. IMHO that machine deserves a Windows 7 (or Vista) 64bit.

[seven7dust]

Apple needs to bump up the HD size
the Mac Mini is a Media center Pc
perfect for living rooms and other Media related tasks
why cripple it with a lousy 120 GB hardrive

[ikramerica--2008]

Because there are no 1TB laptop drives, and 320GB isn't going to really cut it for a true media PC at this point?

If you want to use it as a media pc, there are multiple brands of matching HD enclosures that sit under the unit, that are USB2 (or + FW800) and can be outfitted with drives up to 2TB.

[kelmon]

I believe that 2.5" hard disks top-out at 640GB at the moment. At the current rate it is likely that the capacity of notebook drives may be overtaken by SSDs.

[Ilgaz]

Because it has Gigabit ethernet and N class wireless? Because it is damn easy to share files over AFP (or even iTunes sharing)? Because lousy drive generates way less heat and noise compared to non lousy drives?
Mini is a really misunderstood machine since G4 days. Poor Mini...

[montex66]

And, why exactly does Apple have to do this? Can't you do it yourself? I did. I bought the $599 mini with the bto cpu upgrade. Then when I got it I replaced the 1GB RAM with 4GB and I swapped the 120GB HD for a 500GB drive. Took all of 10 minutes. Now I have a "Super mini" attached to my 42" plasma and a 1TB external backs the whole thing up. It's beautiful, fast and most importantly, SILENT.

Isn't it odd that when cnet reviews the mini they never mention how quiet it is. Put one of those cheapo Dells or HPs next to a mini and lets see which one is loudest. But I forget, real users don't care how loud or small their computers are. As long as it's got 10 fans in the case, it must be good!

[seven7dust]

ya I upgraded the HD myself too
but the average user won't be able to do this
infact the procedure is quite complicated not as straightforward as normal desktops !
I'm not asking them to put in 1 TB drives
but they should bump it up to 250 GB
the difference is only 20$ or so

[JamesFoster32]

Intel are vastly overcharging for their CPUs. I want to see more AMD and Via based machines on the market. Intel is a monopoly that needs to be smashed. Luckily Texas Instruments have kept Intel out of the phone market.

[shellcodes_coder]

It's not Intel, blame CrApple for adding CrApple tax for their case LOL

[Ilgaz]

Remember bashing G5 and G4 in a way that ended up Apple ending ties with IBM/Motorola and IBM lost interest on desktop PC processors which are STILL surpassing Intels in terms of technology used?

It is easy to whine about Intel monopoly now. Where were you when Apple offered G5 64bit processor offering which was ages ahead of Intels of that time? AMD and Intel, pick your poison. It is the sad reality now... Oh BTW, I keep seeing idiots claiming Intel Atom is better than RISC/ARM because of higher Mhz... Look out, they are coming.

[JamesFoster32]

Also $65 for an integrated GPU is way too high. Especially when you consider the terrible reputation Nvidia has for providing bug ridden software drivers.

[Ilgaz]

Ever used Intel X3100/i950 junkset? It doesnt matter... Let me say, they don`t support hardware transform and lighting... A 1999 technology.

Mini future is guaranteed because Apple have finally chosen a real GPU, at least a chip from a vendor who knows what they do. Also, on OS X, Apple codes the drivers and be sure they work perfectly. I haven`t seen any kind of problem under Windows 7 RC 64bit either. Where are the bug ridden drivers you talk about?

[lazycat202]

how much is the monitor cost?

[Dalkorian]

Geez - finish school so you can at least put together a proper question and you'll be able to answer it yourself.

[Goodbye Helicopter]

why do you guys try to write articles that don't make any sense just to get click-ads through apple in the title?

The mini is made with a few components that could be used in laptops because those components are small, you dunderhead. Have you looked inside one before? not much of anything in the way of free space to cram in more.

[montex66]

So cnet FINALLY admits that the Mac mini is built from laptop components. Does that mean cnet will FINALLY stop complaining that the mini is not as cheap as an emachines computer, which is built from desktop components? The last time cnet reviewed the Mac mini, all they could do was whine incessantly about the "bang for buck" ratio, but never once acknowledged that the mini uses laptop parts to achieve it's diminutive size. In fact, cnet is completely BLIND to the mini's tiny, silent form factor.

[pithenumber]

many people are blind to the form factor

some people, like the HTPC folks like small and silent
but Joe Six pack won't care if his computer is a small Mac Mini or a large generic Mid tower

[AppleSuxLeo]

Will it play Crysis ? LOL
What a rip-off ! Typical Crapple. Style with no substance.

[shellcodes_coder]

completely agree with you

[baconstang]

People use to work, not play games. Typical ASL BS comment.

[LegatoRedrivers]

People use it to work? Don't, like, 90% of businesses in the US still use Windows XP? :-P

[SteveW928]

@ LegatoRedrivers -

And your point would be? Do you do everything you do just because it is popular, or do you actually think for yourself? What most companies do != smart. Many companies use Lotus Notes as well... I rest my case.

[pithenumber]

@Steve
companies use software the is Windows only and refuse to emulate
and there is no Linux/Mac alternative either

[SteveW928]

@ pithenumber -

Yea, I suppose dumb companies do that. Although, you can very easily run Windows on a Mac these days at full speed, so if you happen to work for one of these dumb companies, it would still be a non-issue.