Comments on: Microsoft confirms Nvidia 'Tegra' chip for Zune HD

Company says battery life and graphics acceleration convinced it to go with Nvidia's first processor built for power-frugal handhelds.

[monkeyfun14]

Definitely a huge win for Microsoft as well.

Less power hungry quicker responsiveness and better gui.

[shellcodes_coder]

ya man agree with you. It's def. gonna be much better than iPud (iPod)

[Random_Walk]

...but still the same crap DRM (and lost purchases):

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7271611&l=feefec372d&id=623900290

partial caption: "This is one of the many reasons I dumped the Zune. Of the 15 or so albums I purchased there, 9 of them are no longer available and that's money out the window."

[DrtyDogg]

of all of the albums I've puchased from Zune 0 of them contain any DRM

[catch23]

Random_walk
The only DRM on the Zune (or the iPod for that matter) is what you bring to it.
Both have the ability to decode certain DRM, but what locks are on the content itself is up to you, based on what you decide to buy.

Remember to vote with your wallet.

[SlimGem]

This puppy has me intrigued and I definitely want to check one out . I just wish it would work with iTunes, but I guess interoperability will never happen without a mandate from the government or courts.

[monkeyfun14]

Who willingly wants to use iTunes anyways? Honestly..

And you had a good comment then you started trolling.

[pithenumber]

@monkeyfun
slimgem is prolly tied to iTunes due to having an iPod

[walletless]

ya.. i cant wait till when ipod will work with windows media player, winamp, VLC player, and everything else... but I guess interoperatability will never happen with Apple, even with a mandate from government or courts!

[seven7dust]

itunes on the Mac side is nice actually but only along with with apple script though

on Windows I partly agree with the sentiment but still it's good for managing/tagging music IMO
but for playback I use others though cause it's bloated !
but wats funny is that it's probably the second most used Media player after WMP

[SlimGem]

I wasn't trolling and I was serious. I use iTunes on my Macs and Windows PCs and I like it. With it I can access my music from any computer on my home network and send it wirelessly to my living room stereo. And we do have iPods. I also use it at work along with my fellow workers and we share music between our PCs over the network.

It's also good for handling album artwork. I'm in the process of ripping over 1,500 of my CDs and acquiring high quality covers from AlbumArtExchange, but I'll have to start scanning a lot of them myself.

I agree that iTunes is a huge app, but you have to remember all the stuff it handles: the music store, iPhone apps, video, podcasts, etc. It's amazing it works as well as it does. Of course a stand alone music player will probably be simpler and more responsive, and I've tried Songbird, but it's not ready for primetime yet. I do think the absolute worst player is WMP. Why they can't make that thing halfway decent is beyond me. It sucks.

As for my interoperability comment, I was referring to all the companies who make hardware and software. Who wouldn't want the ability to use any hardware with any software? I wish the same thing for cell phones, but that has a snowballs chance in Hades just as much as the music situation.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[monkeyfun14]

@SlimGem

The problem is that their is other software that does the same exact things and doesn't run as slow.

And also Apple explicitly stops any other media players from working with iTunes.

[SlimGem]

I agree about the speed issue, but I mostly have a 'slow' issue when starting it up. But the drawbacks are worth it since I use it so much. I download a boatload of audio and video podcasts every week. And the iTunes U feature is awesome - great educational items. I don't do any video rentals though, since I have NetFlix and a Roku box. Sweet.

The thing about allowing other players I can kinda see, although I don't like it. When Apple first started iTunes they said it was only to sell iPods. But then they screwed
Rhapsody over when they made a download app for iPods. That never made sense to me. There for a while I thought maybe the European Union would force Apple to open up, but I haven't heard anything about it lately. It will probably happen eventually.

[tm_anon]

Funny that a comment about interoperability of a device turned into a discussion about iTunes.

The iPod works OS X, Linux and Windows. The Zune works with Windows only.

That's why I won't be getting a Zune and why the iPod still beats it.

[monkeyfun14]

@tm_anon

Since when did iTunes work on Linux?


And why would I care if a product works on someone elses platform? If it works on mine then I don't see the issue.

[El_Segfaulto]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but i was under the impression that the Zune is able to show up as a simple drive if you don't want to use the proprietary software. Kind of like how my Sansa does it. If this is the case then it should be fairly OS agnostic.

[tipoo_]

This is awesome. The Tegra demos blew me away, i cant wait to see what they do with it.


I wonder how it compares to the CortexA8+SGX graphics combination in the Iphone 3GS though? And if the next ipod touch will have the same processor/GPU as the new iphone?

[seven7dust]

I wonder how long the battery will last too
even though the tegra might be good at power management comapred to desktop GPus
it's still uses power in watts which is a lot more than the cortexA8+SGX combo and Cortex chips
which which use power in milliwatts

[mbenedict]

@seven7dust:

Um, no. The Cortex spec is in milliwatts PER megahertz! The A8 in particular has a max draw of 0.59 mW per MHz. The iPhone 3GS runs at 600 MHz, so the max draw is actually 0.59*600 = 0.35 watts, just for the A8. The SGX depending on the configuration adds another 100 to 110 mw, for a combined total around 0.46 watts.

So the Tegra's draw 0.5 watts is very competitive and the performance is likely to be similar to higher end SGX (better than the one in the 3GS.) It's also tiny.

Of course in reality devices don't operate at 100% all the time, so what's more important for battery life is the idle draw. The Tegra consumes just 0.1w at idle which is very good for a total system.

[seven7dust]

@mbenedict
thx for clearing that up
I thought the tegra uses 4 watts according to some article I read a while back
that was probably the higher end version
0.5 watts isnt so bad ,
also another thing isnt the CPU of the tegra based on the slower ARM11 ?

[mbenedict]

@seven7dust:

Yes and no. Superficially the Cortex A8 is based on a "newer" architecture (ARMv7-A) than the ARM11's (ARMv6K). I put "newer" in quotes because they're both somewhat "old" IPs, and the ARM11 version used by the Tegra is actually a newer design than the Cortex A8. (The Cortex A8 was introduced in 2005; the Tegra's ARM11 was introduced in 2006).

The Cortex A8 is a superscalar core designed to accelerate certain multimedia-type operations by executing them in parallel (in SIMD fashion.) It's like the old superscalar Pentium 4 + MMX, as an imperfect analogy. The Samsung chip used by the iPhone 3GS combines the A8 with an SGX as we all know.

The ARM11 used by Tegra uses an MPCore design instead of superscalar. MP as in multiprocessor; up to four cores can be used in parallel. (The Cortex A8 is strictly uni-processor.) The Tegra itself tightly integrates not only a CPU and a GPU, but also dedicated HD Video processor (up to full 1080p HD) plus a dedicated Image Processing core (to handle 12mp still images) -- all on the same tiny, power-efficient SoC. The Tegra can power-down any core that's not being used for efficiency.

So really it's a different design philosophy rather than one being "faster" or "slower" than the other.

[El_Segfaulto]

@mbenedict

Just wanted to say I (and I think I can safely say 'we') appreciate the technical insight.

[tipoo_]

mbenedict, thanks for all the technical goodies.

I think Cnet needs to do a Tegra VS Cortex A8+SGX VS Qualcomm Snapdragon comparison.

[jfrdricks2009]

People who use Zune do NOT use itunes. Under ANY circumstances.

[tm_anon]

People who use Zune also don't use anything but Windows since they have no choice.

Remember, when you lock some people in, you're locking others out.

[sythara]

With iPod your only choice is Windows or Mac, but not linux. So even with other compedators you're still locked in.

unless someone has managed to get iTunes working on linux.

[Zune_HD]

@jfrdricks2009
Agreed

[mikestatic1]

iPod +iTunes = What Zune will NEVER be.

Enjoy your new shiny junk, Microsofties.

[monkeyfun14]

iTunes is garbage.

And so are iPods you can keep the damn thing.

[seven7dust]

@monekyfun

say wat you want about iPods but they are still king
also I doubt it can surpass the iPod touch
which already a has a huge lead in UI design,Mindshare,Applications even games
it'll take a lot of work for Microsoft to catchup in app development as well
plus gen one device will have bugs always !
and HD video on a 3" screen = meh same with HD radio as well

But One thing I like is that OLED screen ,seemed awesomely bright in the demos !
eitherway I'm all for competition

[seven7dust]

@mikestatic1
stop trolling , unless you have something valuable to add there's no point !

[jfrdricks2009]

Some people actually dont enjoy shelling out 99 cents or more per song either.

[pithenumber]

@jfrdricks
so you get your songs from TPB?

[daphonzo]

New, shiny junk moreso applies to Ipods than Zunes

[HMetal68]

mikestatic1 says "iPod +iTunes = What Zune will NEVER be."

For this I am thankful. My daughter, wife and I all have Zunes and can all share an account for the Zune marketplace even though we all use different computers. Zune subsciption allows sharing an account on 3 computers and 3 Zune devices. So far in the last 2 years, we have downloaded over 12,000 songs. With iTunes that would have cost us over $12,000 but for just $15 per month we can just keep downloading.

But I have to admit it was fun seeing all the sheep lining up in front of the Apple store last Friday. You can keep your iPods and keep paying for all your music.

[Zune_HD]

@mikestatic1
We will enjoy it because it is better than the itouch seeing as it has much better hardware and software plus the zunes software is much better than itunes and easier to use

[auzie1234]

lol you people make me laugh, the zune versions out right now are better than the ipods (the ones before the ipod touch) its just that people dont recognize it, i think ipod is more of a "mee too" device than something like "very nice" just meaning that so many people have them damn apple players that they get promoted more (nearly every one of my friends have one because each one of them think that just beacuse their friends have one they need one) people just dont look at the ipods features but rather who has it, which is stupidity, really common?like my brother the other day said buy an ipod, i asked why, he said "cuz everyone has one" IS THAT REALLY A REASON!! so people here who say "zunes suck" they really dont, and so dont ipods but the zune right now has plenty of features that rock down the ipod, you apple fans who come here to mock this device merely fear its power, you and i both know that zune HD is jumping further than ipod touch did, so just deal with it and cry next to your ipod touchies when this comes out because of the terrible choice you made.

Zune software doesnt suck it has lotsa music lotsa videos only thing i dont like is that they dont have movies yet (they are introducing that wide selection with the zune HD's release, and integrating it much more w/ the xbox)

Personally the Zune HD looks beautiful, fast speeeds that i couldnt imagin, and like 15 hours video playback, OLED screen. i wouldnt regret buying this thing with the features it has now, but even now MS is saying that their are plenty more to come. I cant wait for release good job.

[justinf79]

Why thank you for your uninformative M$-fanboy jibberish...

[rwm72]

Hmm... well, Auzie1234, using your logic, the only reason people buy Windows based PCs is "cuz everyone has one". Rather than considering at a Linux based PC, or an Apple Mac they feel they have to get a Windows PC. If you are a feature lister, then keep buying your Zune and leave your brother alone. If, on the other hand, you thought like an end user, you would see why ipods are so popular.

Competition is a great thing. The Zune HD sounds very promising. But remember, just because not everyone in the world agrees with you, does not mean that they are wrong or misled. WIth ipods and iphones and Macs, has it ever occurred to you people just like their user friendliness. Not everyone is a feature lister who wants to count how many superfluous features a device has, or how many programs their device or PC has. The average Joe user just wants a device that does what they want, is easy to use and is enjoyable to use. And remember average Joe users like your brother make up over 95% of the population.

[slim6596]

I have both Zune and iPod and can say that I like the Zune much more. I use an iPod for music in my pickup truck because my Alpine connects and controls all the content on my iPod. If the Zune could do that, I would throw the iPod in the trash. As far as the comment a few spaces above that says that iTunes is best at organizing music and tagging album art--between the two programs, Zune does it worlds better. I will be buying the new Zune when it comes out.

[Dr_Garcia]

People who use Zune also don't use anything but Windows since they have no choice.

Oh, they were actually people that bought those pieces?

[terminalblue]

first gen ipods didnt work with windows, what is your point.

[El_Segfaulto]

This may be a bit beyond your comprehension, but not all Windows users are unenlightened dopes who simply haven't seen the light of Apple and accepted Saint Jobs as their personal redeemer. I like Windows on my workstation, I like Mesh, I like the compatibility, I like the options to build the system and write the software as I see fit. I like Fedora Linux on my fileserver and Ubuntu on my mediaserver for similar reasons. To each his/her own. My girlfriend owns a Mac and although it is a better machine (she paid out the wazoo for it) I have had to rescue data from a crashed hard drive twice. In all fairness Apple happily replaced the drive both times.

So please don't make assumptions based upon a choice which in the grand scheme of things is really quite silly.

[lazycat202]

Dr_Gacia:
"People who use Zune also don't use anything but Windows since they have no choice.
Oh, they were actually people that bought those pieces?"

that's a stupid comment. We do have choices. I pick Zune over Ipod 'cause I like its power and I want to move freely; not be locked down by Apple. I just don't want Apple to tell me what to do and not to do.
Microsoft allows iphone to access its Windows Active Directory & Exchange. Why Apple doesn't allow any devices (Palm Pre, MS)? Is it being rudeness?
People do have choices! You've your choice, I've mine. PERIOD!

Itune = heaven of hell and scamming.

[jfrdricks2009]

The Zune HD is shaping up to be a major competitor to the Ipod. Finally.

[shellcodes_coder]

iPod sucks

[Synthmeister]

Zune HD is, as always, a day late and a dollar short. This thing should have been out 6 months ago. I mean, after all this time, all MS could come up with was an OLED screen with lower resolution than the current iPod touch and HD radio?

Couldn't they add something USEFUL that the iPod touch doesn't have? How about GPS system? VOIP built in? Camera? Built in mic? Office doc compatibility? Exchange sync?

Why has it taken MS so long to set up a unified App/Media store for X-box, Zune, WinMo? Another 3 months? You've got to be kidding me.

It's okay to be a "me-too" product when you control the market like MS did with Windows in the 80s and 90s. It's not okay to be a "me-too" product when you're fighting for Apple's crumbs and getting beat by the likes of Sansdisk.

BTW, Apple sold a record 1 million iPhone 3GS over the first weekend. If you think the Apple juggernaut is slowing down and it's all just smoke and mirrors marketing which will be exposed by the brilliance of the Zune HD, you've got another thing coming. Between the iPod touch and iPhone, Apple now has a 40 million user base, 50 thousand apps and most importantly, brilliantly functioning cash cow. We're talking $5 billion in revenue at least per year that did not exist 2 years ago! Meanwhile, MS has yet to make any serious money off of it's X-box, WinMo and Zune divisions for the last decade.

[shellcodes_coder]

It's gonna be great :)

[assman]

If this is cheaper than the iPod Touch.. I'm getting it. I'm tired of waiting for an upgrade to the Touch's hardware, I was hoping it would come at the WWDC.. but nope.

Also, an OLED screen? Wow, just beat the iPod there.

[assman]

If this is cheaper than the iPod Touch.. I'm getting it. I'm tired of waiting for an upgrade to the Touch's hardware, I was hoping it would come at the WWDC.. but nope.

Also, an OLED screen? Wow, just beat the iPod there.

[gsmiller88]

I wouldn't mind getting a Zune but, alas, there is no Mac support.

[monkeyfun14]

There was no Windows support with the first iPods either. Just wait that may change.

[RgrMike]

IMHO I really like the way the Zune sounds. Hooking it up to my Bose headsets and playing the same MP3 on both my IPOD Nano and Zune 4GB I can hear a noticeable difference in audio quality. I read several articles that MS left out an EQ in order to improve the audio.

I can't wait to hear the New Zune HD!

Now - the IPod Touch and Iphone with the app store are definitely superior - Good for apple.

[enoch861]

did u ppl read about the 25 days of battery life?

[Zune_HD]

@enoch861

yep, beyond the itouches greatest dreams!
They'll probably get it in about 25 years...... literally

[Suboculis]

Hows is it money out the window? You have the songs right? Who cares if their not on the marketplace anymore. $15 per month to access and play millions songs with 10 free songs of your choice to keep per month for free=No brainer. Get used to it. This is the subscription model of the future for the entire music industry.

[auzie1234]

zune HD with the tegra chip huh? well that;s surprisingly.....GREAT. im not one bit worried about battery life for this now. the tegra chip is supposed to last 25 days audio and like 10 hours video. plus that prob wasnt tested with an OLED type screen, which OLED uses way less power as well. id expect plenty battery life for this. hmm wonder what they will be anouncing next for its features......actually ive went past a website, and it had said something about the back of the zune HD, if you guys looked at it then youd see those screws, and also a silver tab, now im hearing that back can be removed to put a new battery or possibly memory unit inn (if you run out of memory? or battery life...like thatle happen tho) but when you think of this if your gonna carry around two different memory card things, then you wouldnt wanna unscrew things to replace over and over again. unless those screws are not screws and just a decoration (WHAT) but thats probably not the case. so many possibilities..........you guys hear any other new news? post it below mine!!

[Zune_HD]

Yeah I heard about that too, I also heard that thanks to the superior tegra chip inside of The Zune HD that the web browser might have flash player unlike the itouch which just has a specail version of youtube!

[nabobrob]

Ah...People toting those shiny brownish mac airs, macbook pros, tapping their greasy little fingers on some iphone oled screen, tap tap tap . These people are dead already. Keep on clicking and tapping your last breaths into that tin box , oh polishing it so gracefully like an elderly woman with Parkinson's trying to comfort her epileptic cat. Zune users have things to do and tools to use. Zunes are better. And that's all you need to remember.

[sythara]

your comment is as useless as apple fanatic's rants on PC article forum.

give us something concrete. Compare features and apps you can use on Zune vs iPod (touch).

[pooyan69]

It's simply amazing how Apple Fanboys HATE competition.
This is a great thing that the Zune HD is shaping up quite nicely. It will make Apple improve the Touch and not just by adding a compass or useless camera.
OLED Screen with this Nvidia chip alone is stellar. Merging Xbox with the Zune marketplace is great also.
With this GPU/CPU chip inside it will be capable of playing XBL Arcade games and xbox 1 games.
Unreal why all the hate.

[AdvanceAndConquer]

I think we're all educated enough to understand that it's called technology for a reason. I can make something, then you get an idea from it, you make something else to compete with it, the next guy comes and sees that idea and will make it better. It's not about "Fanboys" or flaming people. That's childish and ignorant.

I love technology, and that's that. I don't really care who makes it (although on somethings I do). Just like cars, motorcycles etc... As long as I like the specs, and feel that the product is "solid" but in my price range, then I'm going to get it. So that way the next best thing can be funded, created and marketed.

Would I say Mercedes is better than Jaguar... Probably, depends on the car. What about Honda vs Toyota... again, depends on the car... What you're looking for is what matters, as well as your wallet of course. Can I afford a Benz??? Hell no... But if I want it badly enough, then I'm going to work hard for me to get it. Or perhaps, I'll never get it, but doesn't mean I wouldn't want one. For that matter, I want a Lambo... But doesn't mean I can afford it.

As for Apple iPods VS. Microsoft Zunes... Well, it just so happens that Microsoft is releasing a new bad boy into the mix... and OF COURSE! I would expect it to rock... Hello, we're the people buying it. Would it make sense for MS to release something that's identical to the iPod. Absolutely not! Same for the iPodssss.... Once Apple gets a hold of the specs, they're going to need to "one up" it, so they too can make some more money.

All these competitions are good. It's also called evolution... Without Nikola Tesla... We wouldn't have had the radio... So what do you think now? Without him, there would be NO iPods or Zunes, or maybe not yet. Perhaps we'd still be writing these ideas and emotions on paper, sending them halfway around the world, and waiting a week or two to get a reply.

"Fanboys" or not, these are the people (not just Apple fanboys, but everyone that spends a dime to buy something) that promote progress. Without them having SOME sort of standard, be it looking cool, or having great specs, then companies wouldn't have the drive to progress, and would just keep making the same thing for decades to come. That my friend is just not acceptable.

One last thing pooyan69... This is not a personal shot at you at all. There's been plenty of posts above that I could have replied to. I just hate the "Fanboy" talk.

Please add built-in GPS and Media Center client. This thing MUST be a great Media Center client otherwise it will not have the competitive edge with iPod Touch. I've seen the large application library and how active is the development of applications on iPhone/iPod Touch. There is no such thing in Zune world. So if Microsoft wants to be competitive, they must have a perfect PMP Personal Media Player in the new Zune with seamless integration with Media Center. Adding GPS capabilities would be a nice(er) extra than HD Radio. I have HD Radio in my car and it drives me nuts when it drops to analog and then back to digital... I expect using the headphones as antenna extension will be worst...

[MadLyb]

So, we get an Nvidia chip. Can someone explain why we still have such a crappy screen resolution (besides the fact it is OLED)?

This thing is called the HD, and supports 720p on the TV-Out, but the built-in screen doesn't even compete with modern Smartphones which are blowing through VGA on their way to 720p displays.

I am still excited because it is huge step forward for the product and the new style is great. Hopefully, this will stoke the fires of competition.