Comments on: Four years later: Why did Apple drop PowerPC?

Why did Apple drop the IBM-backed PowerPC architecture and switch to Intel in 2005? Four years to the month, one person involved in the discussions between Apple and IBM offers some insight.

[shellcodes_coder]

well they want mac users to pay more apple tax, that's why

[LaTene_Man]

Shellcodes_coder, you're trolling! Think of how much better you could have gotten your point across without being "trollish".

[websterphreaky]

THE REAL REASON for Intel -

APPLE WANTED 100% of Intel's NAND production for the iPud, to CORNER (ie MONOPOLIZE) the NAND Flash MP3 player market, because they already had deals with Toshiba and Samsung for 100% of their production.

This SQUEEZED OUT anyone else trying to compete in the new NAND Flash Mp3 market!

This is WELL KNOWN in the Silicon Valley area!

[ckh1272]

Such insight from the wisest of all trolls, even using all caps to make his point. I am in ENVY!!
<sarcasm>

DORKS

[JuggerNaut]

I love my PowerPC Mac. I wont be replacing it for a long time. The G5 was an awesome feat for IBM (heck it powers the Microsoft XBox, enuff said). Actually, all the game consoles out there now are on PowerPC (now called Power) technology. Looking forward to when ARM will start competing on the desktop!

http://www.power.org/home

[Dalkorian]

G5's in the xbox, Intel's in the Mac ... and people doubt the apocalypse has come! HA!
;-)

[ckh1272]

That's the funny part of the "argument". Some of the people that slam PowerPC processors own an Xbox 360!! Irony indeed.

[damiandennison]

I wonder if any one from Apple or Microsoft reads these post? I mean that really matters in the company, a real decision maker.

At the end of the day the people who love apple will continue to do so no matter what happens ans the same goes for windows. You have a few people who will just use what they are told is the better of the two at any given moment.

I am not sure if any other company in the world spends as much money on adds like apple and it works for them but when you are the under dog that is what you need to do.

I would love to see MS loss more market share because that will force them to really do a better job. I never want to see only one computer/OS maker out there that controls what we get or not, I have had enough of it.

If Apple want more market share it will have to do a better job in the corporate space, Macs will need to be better centrally managed with better user policies. They will also have to make OSX be able to run on a VM.

Until then they are just going to be number two with very little market share compared to that of MS.

I was really hoping to see Linux do a much better job but I am not so sure right now about Linux on the desktop, server side they are doing great, but you never know. I just love seeing new things come from people who are working hard at what they do.

[Mr. Dee]

"I would love to see MS loss more market share because that will force them to really do a better job."

Just because they have 1.2 billion users you want them to dwindle? That just does not compute. Its a case of choice and the better platform winning. Check out Windows 7 RC and you will see that Microsoft is doing a better job more than ever. Features such as Jump List, Improvements to the Start Menu, Aero Snaps, Aero Shake, Aero Peek, Windows Touch, interactive Thumbnail previews, Improved Search features such as Input, Search Federation, AppLocker, BitLocker To Go, Direct Connect, Network Backup, Remote App, Firewall Profiles, Location Awareness, HomeGroups, Media Streaming, Play To, Internet TV, Sticky Notes with Ink support, Biometrics. Along with that, improved user experience in areas such as Personalization, Windows Update, performance - On demand loading of devices and services, efficient utilization of resources such as spinning up a DVD or a NIC, Battery performance allowing efficient use based environment lighting, improved multi-monitor support, DirectX 11, improved Windows applications such as Paint, WordPad...just the tip of the iceberg. Oh, lets not forget about freebies such as Windows Virtual XP.

[Dalkorian]

Interesting how Mr. Dee here sounds like a sales brochure for w7 yet fails to mention the whip that enslaves all winblows victims - WGA. The name is designed to sound friendly - Windows Genuine Advantage - but the purpose of the program is to allow M$ to kill your computer whenever they don't like what you're doing with it. Don't trust me, look it up yourself - Google "wga failure"!

It's the one feature you won't find in OSX or Linux. Virtually everything else he mentions has a parallel though, in fact is the result of M$ copying the competition.

[LaTene_Man]

"Sounds like a sales brochure". LOL! He'd have to write a sentence correctly first.

[ckh1272]

Anyone else noticed how many posts of Mr. Dee have the "[CNET editor's note: Personal attack deleted.]" at the end of them. Same with kcotham and websterphreaky. Just a thought while observing the mind of a troll. Look for the book soon. You people are always good for a good laugh. Thanks again.

[LaTene_Man]

Just about anything and everything is a personal attack now. If you point out how someone is full of bull droppings, you're attacking them. I don't think the editors know a personal attack from a hole in the ground. My question is why are trolls like Mr. Dee allowed to continue writing their idiotic diatribe in the first place? They come into stories about Apple and begin ranting and raving about how wonderful Microsoft is. No one cares about Microsoft. The story has nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft, but yet he and others like him feel the need to post their trash. And if anyone else calls it what it is and puts the troll in their place, they get that "personal attack deleted" message. Whatever.

[Mr. Dee]

Sometime I say to myself, thank heavens for Microsoft and the focus on democratizing technology. If this industry was left to Apple alone, so many people would not be able to afford computers because a certain erratic individual who had to be fired from his own Company in 80's thought that Computers must be compared to name brand stuff like Sony Walkman, Mercedes and sold in rich people department stores. That is the philosophy of Apple that a certain group of people should not be able to also be creative and be able to utilize technology. I remember reading an interview Jobs did, he said, the people that created the Mac are artist, musicians, poets, actors. That's the most elitist thing I have ever heard. So what about the accountant, the student, the lawyer, the construction worker, the child that wants to learn things...etc? When Apple said Computer's for the rest of us, it was not talking about the over 6 billion people world wide. It meant Paris, Brad, Tom, Denzel, Angelina, Halle, Donald, Britney and those other people who live in Hollywood.

[LaTene_Man]

You thank heaven for Microsoft?! LOL, ROFL, ROFLMAO!

[Renegade Knight]

So, Apple managed to shoot themselves in the foot by taking RISC (a better chip design) and making it unprofitable for everyone including themselves.

[Mr. Dee]

My understanding of AIM alliance is simply this - it was a desperate action by three foes of Microsoft and Intel against their platforms. IBM hated Microsoft for what it did with DOS and then Windows and the fact that they were not invited to the Windows party like many other OEM's. Apple because they envied Windows and Motorola because Intel was driving the engine that powered the industry.

[Mr. Dee]

Sure, that's there are 35 million Mac Zealots and 1.2 billion Windows users.

[LaTene_Man]

Dee, that's not even close to why AIM formed. You think that Apple is or ever has been envious of WIndows?

[datamuncher]

Man,

This topic really brings out the nutcases doesn't it. Maybe the answers really aren't all that complex. The PowerPC seems to still be living on quite nicely in the IBM mainframe and game box markets. x86 continues to do nicely in everything that looks like a PC and ARM seems to be the right choice for anything that needs to be mobile and wireless that isn't a PC.

[LaTene_Man]

Brings out the Windows/Microsoft trolls, that's for sure.

[ckh1272]

Brings out all of the trolls, if you ask me.

[LaTene_Man]

Watch the next Apple story unfold ckh1272. It'll be civil and on topic until a Microserf puts his two cents in. Then it'll be all "oh yeah, well Microsoft Windows is better because XYZ". And then someone will have to point out that XYZ and the entire subject is off topic. Then the Windows/Microsoft troll will say "oh yeah, well you don't want to hear anything against your precious Apple" and throw in some stupid comments about Steve Jobs and Kool-Aid. Then it just continues to go down hill from there. And the editors let these genius disrupt the discussion. If they'd do their job and keep these guys on a tight leash, we could all get back to enjoying the tech news and have meaningful discussions. But that'll never happen because the guys at CNET love this sort of stuff and probably half of them are on Steve Ballmer's payroll.

[lakorai2]

Two words:

PROFIT MARGIN.

That is the only reason why Apple moved to Intel. They now make machines which have near identical hardware to ASUS laptops for substantially more money (ASUS F3 series at $1499 vs. Apple's $2799 17" Macbook Pro)

[mattyc09]

While Apple is very much in the hardware business and they do have a markup on their machines stuff like this is silly. The ASUS F3s at $1500ish were 15" (iirc, I am not even sure if they sell the F3s anymore), not 17" and had slower processors and a lower end 8600. Also the MacBook Pro 17" starts at $2500 which isn't really all that bad for a 2.8Ghz 17 notebook with decent graphics.


The "Apple tax" exists, but for the most part it is grossly overblown just like what you did there. Where you can really see the Apple tax is on stuff like warranties. Dell, HP, etc all will work with you MUCH more there while Apple will attempt to burn you. For example you can get a a full warranty on a Dell that covers pretty much anything. Apple just has Apple care. Also with HP etc you can pickup an extended warranty later on even if you had a lapse in coverage. Again, Apple will never do anything like this.


If you want to point out the Apple tax go for it, but don't be like those people who say the MacPro is overpriced because they can build some Phenom X3 with non-EEC for 1/2 the price.

[Macbrewer]

just depends on what you are running. PPC Risc machines are very fast at some computations, but in general, Intel (finally) as the best chips. The size of the windows market finally enabled Intel to incorporate most of the RISC advantages into the ancient 8086 architecture.

Apple is nimble, they could move the entire enchilada to ARM. This should worry M$ and it's fanboys (a few in this thread, certainly) more than the fact that OS X is doubling it's marketshare already about every 18 months.

What I really do NOT understand is how any of you think the Mac is overpriced. You have no idea what you are talking about. Also, software choice? A generic PC from Dell or HP is no better than what any 5th grader can cobble together by buying (again generic) parts from Fry's, etc... Give yourself a pat on the back for figuring out how to plug in the power supply, and insert the RAM without ruining it.

But Mac runs everything. And you end up spending maybe a couple of pizza dinners more money for this privilege compared to any halfway reasonable PC 'alternative'. Also, should you decide to sell it or upgrade, the Mac it worth many, many times more money on the used market. This is because they are really built well and supported not only by Apple but by millions of users. Your PC is worth almost nothing the minute you buy it. It's a comodity, Apple is not.

[Mr. Dee]

Mac is no better than a Dell, HP, Acer or Lenovo. Why should consumers waste money paying for an Intel architecture just to run a lack luster operating system that is obviously a failure resulting in Apple choosing a different market (iPhone) to give it a new lease on life?

People are missing the point about Mac and ease use. Yes, in the 80's when MS-DOS ruled the day and Windows 1 and 2 were no where fully icon oriented simplified, Mac OS was what you call ease of use on the desktop. Windows became just as good when version 3.0 and its successors came to market. Apple felt so distraught they had to file a lawsuit because they never thought Microsoft would produce a good product and have been using this fluke of superior ease of use since the 90's when they were just another alternative to Windows as easy to use.

[LaTene_Man]

Keep telling yourself that Dee. Keep telling yourself that.

[mikevsworld]

"What I really do NOT understand is how any of you think the Mac is overpriced. You have no idea what you are talking about"

Easy, I buy the parts that consist of an Apple, slap it togetherand it costs considerably less than buying an Apple that's how.

[jscott418]

This should be a lesson to all you Apple fans that you cannot believe what Steve Jobs says. He is a car saleman and a very good one. But he will leave you high and dry if it benefits Apple. I actually think Apple did improve its market share because Windows was now able to be run native on a Mac.
But my question is why did'nt AMD try and get this gig? With what they were doing Apple and AMD could really have been a good match. Especially since AMD bought ATI. What a good combination.
Again, I think Apple was looking at brand loyalty and Intel had a much bigger brand orientation with consumers then AMD did or has.

[ckh1272]

They are all car salesmen/women!! It's just that some are better than others, just like car salesmen/women!!

[LaTene_Man]

And do you think that Gates and Ballmer aren't salesmen? Get a grip. They've been selling you guys and all your companies a bill of goods since the 1980s. Turn that keep power of observation back on Microsoft. Who's been in the news every day for 10 years for monopolistic business practices? Microsoft, not Apple.

[Orion Blastar]

I think Apple dropped the PowerPC because:

#1 Using Intel chips and PC technology makes the Mac more affordable.
#2 IBM and Morotola could not keep their promises to make the PowerPC chips cheaper, faster, and in enough supply to meet Apple's demands.
#3 By using Intel chips, Apple can use Bootcamp to Dual Boot Mac OSX and Windows. Also virtual machines can be used to run Windows under the Mac OSX system like Parallels.
#4 It would help Windows developers migrate to the Mac OSX platform if it uses Intel technology to help port Intel based Windows programs to the Mac. I think this helped bring back Video games to the Mac.

Amiga, Inc. needs to make the same move as Apple did and move from PowerPC to Intel chips for the same reasons.

[SixVodkas]

Please don't disparage the 'Doze trolls.
I'm a PC tech in a corporate environment, and if my company had switched to Macs, I'd not be able to buy a new car every year.
(And I've bought a new car every year since Win 3.1)
Daddy wants to install a twin turbo on his latest toy and can't wait for Win7 to make it happen!

[alegr]

So you misconfigure your PCs for job security? Nice work.

Hint: If you take Admin rights away from the users, you will have close to zero problems.

Mr Dee even if IBM were still angry at the two decade old 'betrayal' and Apple were for some strange reason jealous of the worm pit that is Windows, they are still perfectly valid reasons for forming the AIM alliance, because then they will be able to compete better and increase their revenue. Why has that concept not entered you head!?

Furthermore I must ask the posters here to PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE TROLL! Logical arguments wont shut him up, and since personal attacks are'nt allowed we cant address his real problem

[Rmiami225]

I love the ******* / wintard wars .... you guys are a trip! I have a 2.6 ghz M700 Toshiba tablet PC that rocks ... and a new 2.93 ghz Macbook Pro that is a thing of beauty .... I prefer the ergonomics of the Mac and it just looks better, a cleaner design ... the trackpad is sweet! just a note: Microsoft doesn't make computers! I get tired of babysitting Windows Vista, but the Toshiba has been solid. if Apple came out with a tablet I may never buy another PC! But who knows ... what might come down the pike that will change the game! I doubt Windows 7 is a game changer!

[nervous_cat]

PPC processors were good in their heyday. Our 10 year old Blue & White G3 is still going strong - my only complaint was that stupid firmware upgrade to block putting a G4 processor into a G3 system board. Never throw out an old Mac just because PPC is now obsolete.

[El_Gringo_Guapo]

I remember when this happened--I kept thinking, "***?! P4 w/ NetBurst?! ***?!"

I had recently switched over to Mac (circa '03) and was using my trusty old 12" Powerbook (G4 1.0Ghz) and loved the speed of the little machine. I liked PowerPC but was also a big fan of AMD's Athlon offerings.

Intel definitely wrapped things up w/ their Centrino technology--power savings AND performance, not versus. However, when I saw the PowerMac (now Mac Pro) running on a P4, it was appalling. Netburst was a lousy architecture, and thankfully Intel found their way w/ Core architecture (aka. reworked/improved/enhanced P3 architecture).

I hated the P4 and thought it was one of their bigger flops (::cough::cough:: Itanium) but am glad to see Jobs' vision was dual-core notebooks when most people thought it was overkill for a notebook computer.

Thus far, I've been very pleased with Intel's CPU speed and power consumption. They have really redeemed themselves w/ Core and Core 2. I only wish AMD had a more competitive offering to match it (Neo is ok, but not great)

(typed on a 2.66Ghz Macbook Pro)

[bvdon]

I'm still running my G5 dual 1.8... it's great.

[shycelticwitch]

To the Mac users who are supporting their product and not commenting on others... KUDOS to you for not fanning the flamers.

To the Mac users who are floating at the bottom of the gene pool with the Windowslovingapplehaters and letting them goad you into becoming trolls like them... SHAME ON YOU. You chose Mac, so obviously you have a higher intelligence and such childish antics are far beneath you.

To the Windows users who come here often despite the fact they don't know anything about, or own any Macs or OS X... if you can't play nice, pick up your toys and go home.

"Windows is.... A 32-bit extension to a 16-bit graphical interface, sitting on an 8-bit operating system, originally written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company without ONE BIT of common sense."

There. A comment with no cuss words, no hate words and 100% true.

[LLIB_SETAG]

Windows is...
HAHAHAHAHAHA! funny but true!

That was " legen......(wait for it )....dary!

[LLIB_SETAG]

The great reversal in chips!

Apple went to Intel chips while Microsoft went to PowerPC chips in their XBOX game console just like Sony Play Station...

weird...

I did have a PPC & it was very reliable & fast ( WAY faster than Intel Pentiums at that time frame ). Intel kept innovating & now today Apple is with them.

Now you can run UNIX / Linux / Mac OSX / Windows OS on one Apple computer!