Comments on: Is an Apple more form than function?

One of the reasons people buy an Apple is aesthetics--and not just because some guy said it in a Microsoft ad.

[filmtex]

Mac Book all the way. It's all about the OS and as many others have observed for years, Vista is a cobbled together, poor excuse for a reliable easy-to-use OS. My mother-in-law has been a die-hard Windows user for many, many years and recently purchased an iMac after using her new iPhone for two weeks. She loves it and wonders why I never told her how easy to use and productive Macs were-go figure. It's the OS, not the hardware.

[pcmacd]

That's exactly the point. It's the OS. Why compare the MacBook with the Dell? What about Hewlett-Packard? Where is Sony? I mean, with so many PC manufacturers out there, you will always be able to find a PC box that betters a particular Mac's specifications. No question. So let's cut to the chase. The Mac OS is simply more intuitive, and is a pleasure to use. That's my opinion of course. I work all day with PCs, and it ain't much fun! Give me the Mac OS anytime!

[ddhboy]

You have to be careful with that though, you can make OSX run on a regular PC with a bit of work and some compatible parts, the compatible netbooks like the dell mini 9 show that if apple doesn't provide people with a product they'll like at a cost they can agree to they'll always just mod the cheaper system to run the OS and it will run fine, since OSX is more scalable than Vista.

Don't get me wrong, I love my macbook pro, I'm just saying we have to be careful about saying that the OS is THE reason for buying a mac, since the OS on its own holds little incentive in paying apple prices.

[wayneb22]

I agree, After 2 very frustrating years of Microsoft debacles i am proud to say i am another converted MAC fan! OX Leopard has Crashed on me 0 times in a year, with Vista it was atleast once a week! My new Iphone compared to My AT&T tilt with windows 6.1..Hands down the Iphone wins..... i was connected to my office and receiving Email in 2 minutes!...The guy's in IT are still trying to make Windows mobile 6.1 connect. Microsoft has botched everything theyve touched for years! Face it folks Apple products work right out of the Box, Unless you have plenty of spare time to screw around tweaking MicroJunk....Get an Apple!

[tm_anon]

You've also got to look at the quality of the parts. Who manufactured the RAM? What type of motherboard is it? What brand is the hard drive?

He mentioned the unibody case which is fine, everybody mentions the unibody case. What's the resolution on the Dell?
What's the weight difference? What's the quality of the built-in camera? How many periferals can each have connected and what's the battery life of each?

I know most consumers won't think to ask a lot of these questions and I'm just starting to touch on the questions that should be asked. When making comparisons between two laptops, especially when considering price, if you don't ask every single question possible then you could end up buying junk instead of quality.

I've never looked at the Dell XPS and I'm not claiming it's junk. I'm just saying I wouldn't know just from this side by side comparison.

[Jesus_C]

I still don't get what people are doing that causes Vista to crash. Never crashed XP, never crashed Vista in the almost 2 years I've had it, and I'm a gamer/"power user". I guess that's why Macs are designed for these people, and that's not wrong at all. Just wish they didn't charge so much for accessibility.

[Dalmatian28]

O god...another talentless writer that uses "sex" to cover up his luck of talent and get a lot of attention from readers. Come on....any idiot knows that if you write article that is about Microsoft/Apple "garbage" that is alone enough to get readers going. Unfortunately...look at this post under!!! It works every time!!!! I feel sorry for some of this people!!!

[liozzi]

If it's all about the OS, then MAC users would use PCs if Apple didn't lock them into buying Apple hardware by designing MAC OS to only work with Apple computers. Do Mac users feel comfortable with the fact that Apple is attempting to create a monopoly?

[Blue-Hat-Man]

Just wait until your mother-in-law's Mac Book and iPhone break down aqnd she needs, dare I say it, customer service. She's going to love the snot wads she encounters who really, really don't care what her problems might be because, hey, the Mac is so cool.
My pal Wally's solution: He bought 2 Mac Books so while one is in the shop, he's still up and running on the second deck. He got tired of being accused of "impatience" when he wondered why repairs he had to fight for were taking so long. Customer service at Apple: It blows...

[RideMan]

Comparing the two machines, what is the resolution of the screen, of the camera? The Apple has a glass overlay for the screen; does the Dell? What does the Dell feel like when you type on it? What is the battery life? How stiff is the case for the Dell? How hot does it get?

I have an ancient aluminum 12" PowerBook and it has taken quite a beating...and there is no going back to plastic cases! I also have a Dell Mini-9 running Leopard, and while it does run OS X about as well as my laptop, it does have some issues, beginning with its power consumption during sleep. It seems that it lacks Apple's system management hardware, which means it doesn't shut off the CPU during sleep; a day in the briefcase will kill the battery.

I've found that if you do a fair comparison of like hardware, Apple turns out to be price competitive when new. Apple's general failure to update lines with the same frequency as other manufacturers, or to update pricing as the lines age, tends to bring about the largely mythical "Apple tax".

[Inconnux]

Yup its all about the OS and hell will freeze before I purchase anything with Vista. If the Dell machine included XP, I would choose it but Vista is driving me to apple.

[StyleNation]

This comaprison doesn't include software. The MB comes with iLife, I'm not sure Dell includes such software tha covers photo and movie editing. This are tools that lot of people use and have to purchase when getting a PC. I alos uses both Vista and Leopard every day and the Mac OS is a way better system when it comes to stability and performance.

[seven7dust]

it also fails to mention battery Life
Dell gives you - 3 hrs of battery Life
Macbook - 5 hrs of battery Life
battery Life to me is a very Important aspect of a laptop
it's funny how everyone forgets about it always

also other additions include Unibody build quality, magsafe connector, multi-touch trackpad, backlit keyboard ambient light sensors,thinner & lighter design etc etc.

all the Pc fanboys need to understand that a Computer is more than CPU,Ram
and that the average user will benefit more from the extras Apple includes

[Mr. Dee]

Windows Vista comes with applications similar to iLife: iLife vs Windows Live Essentials:

iPhoto - Windows Live Photo Gallery 2009
iMovie - Windows Movie Maker (already built into Windows)
iWeb - Windows Live Writer
iDVD - Windows Vista already comes with the built in Windows DVD Maker.

[jinx101a]

Mr. Dee lists software equivelents. Some of those software items he listed are FREE add-ons to Windows. They're not inlucded with the OS because they're robust enough that it would bring Microsoft up on more anti-competitive charges (a legal disadvantage of having so much market share).

Often times when I use software like iTunes, I'm left wondering if the software is actually working or not (request album art, and it justs sits there.. did it work?... or how about when you click on your iPod and it takes 10 seconds to switch to the screen, on a quad core system with 4 gig of RAM... that's sad considering it runs other memory intensive apps well). Why would I want to change to a Mac when Apple can't even write an efficient multimedia managing appication (e.g. iTunes, which I wouldn't use if they didn't FORCE me to as the only option with my iPod Touch). I'm not going to pretend like there is no value in the Mac, but the key word is value. It's over valued, more for looks than what you get out of performance vs. price.

[Alphaman63]

Software is ultimately what it's all about, especially now that Apple's Mac line is based on Intel processors and Nvidia graphics. While some will say that the various apps included in Windows compete with the integrated iLife suite (seriously, does Movie Maker even come close to the level of functionality in iMovie '09?), there are many more apps that come included in Mac OS X.

- ssh client and server
- webserver with UNlimited connections (vs. 10 on Windows)
- VPN client
- X-windows client and server
- NFS client and server
- remote desktop client and server
- XGrid distributed processing/supercomputing client
- ability to mount disk image files
- ability to mount CD and DVD ISO image files
- encrypting password management store integrated with the OS
- GarageBand (not just for creating music, but also a very functional audio and podcast editor)
- PDF creation ability built in

and much, much more.

So, is Apple more form than function? Not even close.

[coachgeorge]

Please.............. If you work with Vista, you know the photo and movie tools.
Regardless, Hello Google!
Hello Open Source. These tools are available for everyone with out the price tag.

I do not like OSX. Plain and simple. Occasionally I need to use it to test some functions or software work flows. I use XP and Windows 7 Beta. I prefer them.
Personal preference is the key. They are ALL susceptible to viruses and spy ware. My OSX box has had it's share of stability issues. They all have hardware that could fail. They are now all using the same hardware these days,
Windows has evolved into a very powerful and user friendly OS. It's not like back in the Windows 3.11 days. MAC's have their Champions.

Buy what you like but stop these stupid comments!
Nuff Said.

[liozzi]

If you have Mac OS X 10.1 and want to update it to Mac OS X 10.5, you must pay. If you have Windows XP SP1 and want to update to Windows XP SP3, it's free. Why is MAC OS capturing less than 10% of the market after over 20 years? Because it's proprietary. If MAC OS is so great, why can't they make a version that runs on PCs? Why does Apple not allow Mac clones?

[fretz16]

How could we forget? Most Dells do come with software...all of the garbage advertisements and piece of junk software that take hours to eliminate, while, in the meantime, slowing down your computer like crazy.

I never owned a Mac until this summer - I bought it because I needed to make podcasts for some of the courses that I teach. Little did I know at the time that it would be the best computer I had ever owned. It is ready to go right out of the box and worked like a charm. I debated on buying 4GB of RAM instead of the 2GB that I bought...but that was only because I didn't understand the OS. No need for so much RAM or processing power - unless you plan to run Windows in Boot Camp. The reason you need more processing power and RAM with a Dell (or any Windows-based PC) is because Windows demands it. Mac OSX does not.

[mynameinc]

Ubuntu FTW!

[scifiend]

The only program vaguely fun or useful in iLife is garage band, and it's not all that great. iPhoto fills up your hard drive with jpegs of the jpeg you import into it. I'm not sure if ANY other photobrowser does this, and why would you want it to? I stopped using anything iLife on my macbook pro and am beginning to wonder why I didn't buy something else.

[Mergatroid Mania]

So what you people are saying is that the software that comes with the Apple O/S is robust enough that APPLE should be brought up on anti-competitive charges?

Please, some people seem to prefer the Apple OS even though it will only run on sometimes outdated Apple hardware, and some people prefer Windoze even though it's made by MS. Personally, I still run Xp and have never had any stability issues with it. The really nice thing is I can upgrade my computer, and move the o/s into my upgraded system. In fact, I just upgraded my system to a really sweet ASUS/Core 2/ATI system with 4G 1066 RAM and I didn't have to repurchase: hard drive, floppy (which I don't really use any more), DVD burner, keyboard (which is good because I have an aftermarket kicka$$ keyboard), case (again, this is really good because I have an awesome case that looks sweet as well as being functional), Mouse (nice again, own a Logitech sweeta$$ mouse), speakers (which come with most new systems), and monitor (which is built into some Mac systems). So, by upgrading my PC instead of purchasing new I have saved several hundred dollars and gotten a completely up to date system. Oh, did I mention that I also saved on the OS by reinstalling my Windoze XP on my newly upgraded system? Oh ya, I also got $100 for my old main board, cpu, ram and video card.
Do that with a Mac.

[casademike]

I find Microsofts new ads quite curious. They seem to take the stance that it's really just all about the hardware. Thing is, they are a software company. So they are basically saying by default they are irrelevant. Out of the box there is much more software value in a mac. And I am not talking about the OS. Flame war starting in 3...2...1...

[tm_anon]

If you take the new ads to the logical conclusion you'll find an OEM preinstalling any Linux distro and buy that one. You'll either get the same hardware cheaper or you'll get more hardware at the same price.

I'm pretty sure that's why they abandoned this tactic when it was tried before.

[jlm429]

they are a software company that allows users to select hardware. apple dictates hardware.

[liozzi]

Mac OS will only run on Apple hardware and Apple doesn't allow Mac clones. Apple is a hardware company. Apple doesn't have enough confidence in Mac OS to allow it to compete on a standard platform. If Apple lacks confidence in it's product, why should I trust that product? Less than 10% market share after over 20 years is failure. Linux will break 20% long before Mac OS.

[Sentax]

Well I find them quite curios too, but I have to think that their is a purpose behind MS lighting the Mac/PC flame war. Maybe they're trying to get people to express why they love Mac so much so they can take those ideas and work them into future products. Find out why someone likes Mac so much and then make it irrelevant in the future by implementing or changing how you're doing things, makes sense to me in business thinking.

[Mergatroid Mania]

It is partly about the hardware. MS Windoze will run on ANY hardware, Apple o/s will only run on Apple hardware.

It's slightly possible that if Apple made their o/s to install on any hardware line MS does, I might consider switching to the Apple o/s (or at lease adding it to my system as duel boot).
However, since it will ONLY run on Apple hardware I'm not interested. The really funny thing about it is, it's not really Apple hardware anymore is it? All Apple makes for computers is an O/S, and they will only allow it to be installed on hardware sold by Apple...no thank you.

[pentest]

"they are a software company that allows users to select hardware. apple dictates hardware."

That is amusing. Windows runs on a very limited number of processor architectures as well. Let's see Windows run on the platforms that Linux does.

99.9% of people who buy PC's end up buying from OEM's who, guess what, dictate hardware and upgrade paths. How is this any different than Apple?

People tend to forget that Apple is an OEM who makes a high quality OS and also uses high quality hardware, unlike Dell, HP, Sony, etc.

[pentest]

"It is partly about the hardware. MS Windoze will run on ANY hardware"


Wrong!

Thanks for playing.

Linux runs a very large amount of hardware that Windows can not.

[Lerianis3]

casademike, you hit the nail on the head: it is mostly about the hardware. Frankly, I compared a MacBook to my Gateway notebook...... the Gateway Windows notebook won hands down, because everything in it was higher powered than the MacBook.

Now, I know people are going to gripe about "Mac is easier to use!" ********. If anything, it is HARDER to use, drag and drop installation of most program notwithstanding.
Only one mouse button, not being able to run any real games (Crysis on a Macbook? Not unless you install XP or Vista!), small software selection, underpowered hardware..... need I keep going on?

The fact is that Mac is all about idiots who like to think aesthetics is more important than anything else. Personally, I go for power, ease of use, etc.: the MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN A COMPUTER. To those who are going to say "Windows isn't easy to use!".... talk to the finger. If my little friend who is only 6 can figure out how to install applications, install security software, etc........ Anyone should be able to. In fact, anyone could.... it's just that the 40 and overs are LAZY and don't want to learn how to use their computers properly.
Mac is good at that: coddling users by giving them "only the basics" and keeping all the power functions hidden 10 menus down where no one is going to waste time getting to them.

[tm_anon]

@Lerianis3

What was the software performance for that Mac that you were comparing?

Did you even bother to check what exactly the Mac was doing with the hardware it had when compared to the Gateway?

Do you have boot times? Response times for other software?

Do you have the information for just how long each system could remain powered up before the battery was drained? How about the amount of time it took before there was a hardware failure to the point the machines needed to be taken in to be fixed?

Do you have any information showing how much abuse each machine could take? i.e. How many times could each laptop be dropped before it couldn't be used? how long before cracks appear in the case? how long before it overheats?

Back to the software, how many pieces of trail software needed to be removed before the Gateway was usable? How many pieces of trial software before the Mac was usable? How long before you needed to defrag the Gateway and how long before you needed to defrag the Mac? What about antivirus software and the system performance hit from that? Antispyware software? Anti- anything else software?

You can't make claims without taking everything into account and expect to be treated like you have a brain. I'm not saying that Macs are perfect but people who buy them do have very valid reasons for doing so. I use Linux for a very valid reason and I'm sure you use Windows for a very valid reason.

[vesal9]

Graphics: Nvidia GeForce 9500M--256GB ??? You mean 256MB

[Lerianis3]

Yeah, typo-rama there.

[jacd12]

I've used both Apple and Windows machines. For my art classes, I've used the Apple machines and they do that really well, but as for everything else, meh-it's just a computer. I don't use itunes and I don't own an iphone or an ipod, so that doesn't help me. But as an avid gamer, I own only Windows machines because that's what is important to me. I do think you are forking out extra dollars on an Apple for a name and I don't really care about a name. I just want performance. However, both have their place.

[seven7dust]

exactly Macs are good at their thing and Pcs at theirs
the way I see it Mac users have more options and choice than Pc users
Contatry to wat others say !
cause we can willingly switch between platforms
PC guys are mostly stuck with Windows and some use Linux but it's still not much of a choice yet !

[mikestatic1]

I am an avid gamer as well... and that is why I have an XBOX 360 and a Wii - gaming on a computer is so far behind consoles it had no appeal to me.

No reason to soil my Dell or my Mac with games.

[Jesus_C]

@mikestatic: "gaming on a computer is so far behind consoles"

please elaborate.

dont get me wrong, i'm a nintendo fanboy, but really...wow.

[monkeyfun14]

@mikestatic

Game on a pc with real hardware and a hd monitor and tell me how quick your mindset changes.

xbox360 and PS3 are using equivalent to 4 generation old pc hardware.

[liozzi]

Apple locks Mac users cannot buy a computer that is not made by Apple. Why does Apple not allow Mac clones? Then users would truly have a choice of OS. I think it would actually benefit Apple to allow Mac clones. Apple Macs would probably gain market share. Mac OS would probably make even greater gains.

[pithenumber]

@77dust
I can't have a GTX295 in a Mac
or a Ph2 720
or, heres a big one: bluray
or a "normal" i7

Users of generic PC's have more choices than Mac users

@mikestatic1
you just called the Wii a gaming platform, lolz
PC gaming is better than console gaming
I can build a cheap gaming computer an easily expect it to kill the xBox or PS3 in graphics performance

[Renegade Knight]

@mikestatic1

Fair point. I now have an old laptop just for games since Games on PC's install all kinds of DRM crapware that screws up your system.

Since HD's are cheap it almost pays to install a dual booting system just to have a clean work system and a messed up gaming system. Consoles suck for different reasons but at least you don't have to mess with the DRM crap like SPORES limited installs and no resale. (though when consoles go to download only...but that day isn't quite here yet)

[Mergatroid Mania]

How can anyone say Mac users have more options than PC users? Considering how much hardware, peripherals and software are on the market for PCs, that's a pretty backwards statement.

Also, as an avid gamer, I use a PC because the hardware in my newer PC WAY outperforms the hardware in either my PS3 or in an Xbox, the on-line play is FREE in most cases, the games are WAY better on a PC (Games like Guild Wars and WOW), and the control system on a PC (mouse and keyboard) kicks A$$ over the crappy console controllers. Not to mention that PC games have been around for such a long time they have been perfected, while the console games are making the same mistakes PC games made 10 years ago.
It makes me laugh that so many Xbox owners actually think "Capture the Flag" and "Death Match" make a good game. PC games evolved past these types of multiplayer years ago.
Love those 10 year old spawn point campers eh?

[seven7dust]

ok you people mis understood my post !
wat I meant is like jacd12
I can freely switch bettween Macs and Pcs if i see fit
you Pc guys only know Windows and woudn't know the first thing about Macs and it's benefits !
which is why mac users have more choice cause most are open minded and use wat we Like best !
not saying all Pc users aren't just the majority of them are ignorant about Macs in general

[liozzi]

@ seven7dust

Mac users can switch between Mac OS and Windows. The reason you can do so is because MS doesn't prevent Windows from running on a computer made by someone else. Do you run Mac OS on a PC? You can't (easily), because Apple decided that you can't have that choice. So Mac OS users have only one choice. Windows users have the same hardware choices as Mac OS users and more.

You can't blame MS or the hardware manufacturers, other than Apple, for Apple's decision to to limit the consumer's choice.

[jean.luc.picard]

Yes Apple make beautiful, drool-worthy hardware BUT it's not that hardware (even though Apple tends to put high quality into its builds which pushes the price a bit). It's the software: OS and everything else included therein. Not trial version but fully functioning real versions that are top of class. And the ability, out of the box, to run all of the world's software.

[monkeyfun14]

Really all of the worlds software? I think you have it backwards and I find it funny how the fanboys around here seem to have the mindset that anyone but Apple is building machines falling apart out of the factory. I can bet you that the dell has the same quality if not better build then that Apple does. They're both being built in sweatshops halfway across the world so how could quality be much different?

[liozzi]

If it's all about the software, why doesn't Apple allow Mac clones?

[pithenumber]

"And the ability, out of the box, to run all of the world's software."
uhhhhh, no! if you want Windows exclusive sw, you need to buy yourself a Windows CD and do bootcamp or use an emulator
oh yeah, and console games are software, so are iPhone Apps.

"even though Apple tends to put high quality into its builds which pushes the price a bit"
the same hw in a high quality PC is found in a Mac
the RAM is just printed with an Apple logo, I think they use normal RAM from samsung
Macs have normal Intel processors and a graphics chip from either ATi or nVidia that is made by TMSC
I think the mobo's are custom, but many OEM's have custom mobo's too

[Renegade Knight]

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. You have to load a scrip to watch video in full screen or upgrade your Quicktime player. Apparently apple does use trialware...

One of the first dissapointments that I had to find a workaround for when changing to a Mac. They are not perfect out of the box.

[RideMan]

As of QT 7.4, full screen playback is part of the free package. Why it took so long for them to do that I don't know, but at this point you can retire the argument.

[cpamax]

There's no mention of the quality of the components inside (LED screen, circuitry, drive mechanisms, etc) because as far as I know that's where Apple spends the money. Aluminum vs Plastic? That's a no-brainer and how about the green factor...that's very important these days.

[ddhboy]

Yeah, I just wish that apple didn't use like 110dpi screens. that really throws you off when you're doing actual work like graphic/web design on a mac since everything is smaller than it would be on an enduser computer.

[liozzi]

The environmental movement predates Apple computer by 20 years or more. Apple jumped on the green bandwagon less than 2 years ago. Why did they not care before?

[karmagun]

aluminum is *extremely* energy-intensive to use in manufacturing, moreso than most common metals, and takes even more energy to recycle. In fact recycling aluminum cans is a net energy loss. The 'green' argument of aluminum vs. plastic is a red herring.

[Renegade Knight]

Quality Counts. I'd give Macbooks a nod over the Crap Dell producses any day. However there are other PC brands that I'd hold up against a Mac and the best a Mac's going to get is a tie.

[tm_anon]

@karmagun

How many plastic PCs would you go through before the Aluminum PC needed to be replaced?

While it may take more energy to recycle Aluminum, when compared to how many times you're having to recycle the plastic, the aluminum wins.

By the way, you can't have a net energy gain in recycling or anywhere else. The Law of the Conservation of Energy explains this. Just like you can never have less or more Matter at any given time which is explained in the Law of the Conservation of Matter.

[IgnatiusTheKing]

While the Dell's tech specs might be slightly better, the real difference is the OS. Neither Vista nor XP can hold a candle to OS X, especially in the speed department. Once Apple releases Snow Leopard later this year, the difference will be even more pronounced.

[seven7dust]

vista cant even function properly with 4 GB of ram
people need to understand that performance and hardware are 2 separate things
just like how for games even a Mac pro will get destroyed by a cheap PC !
at general tasks and general multi-tasking OSX is far far superior to Windows machines
no matter wat the hardware I'm sure my Mac mini can out multi-task quad core dells etc.
see the Cnet bechmarks for more proof

[DrtyDogg]

wow, 7 you really are delusional! There wasn't even one shred of truth in that statement. Speed is in the eye of the beholder it seems, as I find my Vista laptop to be faster than my Macbook. That's just my opinion though, from somebody who sells/supports/uses both on a daily basis.

[seven7dust]

@DrtyDogg
ok if I'm so delutional see the Mac mini review on cnet for yourself
then we'll see whos lying
and yr right speed is in the eye of the beholder
can you truly say that Vista feels snappy ? to me it feels like its always fighting the hardware doing something weird all the time slowing down !
XP on the other hand is extremely snappy and Fast not even taking about OSX here

[pithenumber]

Vista easily chugs along with 2gb of RAM
7 and XP fly even with 512mb or 1gb

[Renegade Knight]

Vista holds up nicely agasint OS X, and I don't even like Vista. On my Mac Vista is more stable which really, really suprised me.
OS X over XP? Heck yes.
Snow Leapard vs 7 is the next round that should be interesting.

[KiltedTim]

One glaring difference is it's possible to (legally) run Windows on the Mac, but not vice versa. The underlying OS makes all the difference in the world so far as I'm concerned. I run Windows and some Windows apps because I have to, not because I want to.

[jaybarrow]

Exactly. You can't run both OSes in Vista.

The average consumer assumes PC's automatically come with Microsoft Office pre-installed. Then they realize they have to buy it themselves. Granted, neither do Macs! Cost of iLife: $79.00 ($71 for Students). Cost of MS Office for PC: $149.99 (currently on sale for $99 @ microsoft.com). Cost of OpenOffice: $0 but the average consumer off the street won't realize the benefits of open source software.

[Alex Alexzander]

@Jay,

It's been said that OpenOffice has been downloaded 98 million times. Almost 4 x as many downloads as the active Mac user base world-wide. If you decide the average Ooo user has downloaded it 3 times, you still arrive at one to one. Even if the average customer doesn't realize the benefits of the Ooo office suite, it's still an audience at least as large as the entire Mac user base.

Alex Alexzander

[rapier1]

OpenOffice is great except when its a disaster. We've been dealing with a 37 page OO doc that has embedded html form controls. Its been so amazingly slow it makes my brain hurt. It has not been a pleasing introduction to OpenOffice by any stretch of the imagination (this is on a 15" MBP with 2GB of RAM).

[Lerianis3]

Actually, KiltedTim.... you don't HAVE to run Windows if you don't want to. Unless it's a business PC (and I think business knows what they are doing by sticking with Windows instead of Mac for most desk-jockeys computers), you can format the hard drive, install Linux or even OSX (there are ways to 'fool' the OS into installing on non-Apple hardware) and go.

The problem you encounter then is that businesses making software... are smart. They are NOT going to waste their time on an overblown, overdramatized, also-ran OS that only 10% of computer users use....might be even less than that.

[Perry_Clease]

"This dig in the latest Mac-attack Microsoft ad contains a kernel of truth"

"A kernel of truth?" The digs in the Apple ads contain more than one of them.

Are aesthetics important? Hell yes, and with a Mac you get good looks AND performance. Furthermore even if it was running on a butt ugly box OSX is better looking than the competition.

[Renegade Knight]

Looking at My MacBook vs. An old junky ThinkPad.
Looks, Check. Performance. Check. Ergonomic design, Nope.

Looking at OS X.
Better than XP? Check.
Better than Vista? Nope. for my use it's actually more limited.

[mayadanteamihan]

Honestly, I just can't see performance in a Windows machine, no matter what the specs. I was a Windows user for 17 years and still retain an XP desktop, but haven't touched it quite some time now. I do websites, videos, presentations, photography; I write, email, facebook, twitter, photoshop, iPhoto, use Dreamweaver, Joomla, import and export .doc, .xls, .ppt, etc. etc. All of them work fine on a Windows and Office-free Mac, without worry, no snitches.

But of course, I don't do gaming. If Windows is so good for gaming, it should stay just that -- become a gaming OS.

[stuxstu]

Wow Microsoft has nailed it this time... Look at how crazy the Apple fans are going. And there are only 5 more commercials coming... If MS is smart they will just keep this going and going.

[mikestatic1]

The Microsoft ads will definitely appeal to the audience who lacks discretionary income, because it will make their 6 year old ThinkPad seem like a good buy.

[tm_anon]

These ads will increase Linux use. After all, if you get Linux preinstalled on an OEM machine instead of Windows, the price goes down. Makes a newer ThinkPad the same price as that 6 year old one.

They should really be careful with that.

[rlorenz89]

I agree. Look at all these people whining! I especially like the guy who claimed that Mac's are more open that Windows PC's. Haha. That's hilarious. And the one about Mac's being more valuable b/c they can dual-boot; that's even more of a reason to boycott Apple for not participating in a generally cooperative environment (excluding Sony). Wake up, people. You can use a Mac if you want to; you're more than welcome to spend the extra money for something shiny and minimalist. But for me, I like to be able to do what I want with a computer. I'm sure if I was a graphics designer I would have a different perspective on the matter- but PC's speak too strongly to my common sense to buy a Mac. Cheap and (relatively) open? That's the one for me.

[seven7dust]

if MS want to win back Mac users back to Windows they need to improve Windows and bring it back to OSX levels
plus they need to stop spreading lies {which they are doing with these ads}
how are these ads helping n e one ? there's no talk about Windows at all !

infact these ads will help in educating Pc users who have never touched a Mac before about Macs
they might walk into a Apple store to see wat the hype is about and use one
and boom a new Mac user might be born

Infact I personally managed to switch someone to the a Mac recently only because of the 1st advert
and this was via a internet Discussion and a few youtube videos
and He now loves his new iMac he bought just last week !
looks like Microsoft is doing Apple's Job for them ! thx Microsft !

[pithenumber]

@77dust
the Win7 Beta is already years ahead of OS X 10.5
10.6 might change it, but from what I heard, I doubt it

[seven7dust]

@ pithenumber
how exactly is Windows 7 years ahead of Leopard ?
Maybe it's better for you since your a gamer but not for me !
I've only used it for a few days but here's why I still don't like it

the search still sux IMO, gadgets are still bloated
still no spaces eqvivalent,
lets not even talk about Applescript and Automater
No way to configure/change Application shortcuts
as for Boot/Shut down time and Multi-tasking is concerned leopard is still far ahead and
Finally the problem with Windows in general it slows down with time
and requires Constant Maintenece work and re-installs every few years
due to the combination of registry,Security and Buggy Programs !

plus the final nail in the coffin UAC without it yr computer is insecure
with UAC Switched on you don't get peace of mind !

So as far as I'm concerned 7 is not even on Leopard levels yet
still a Long way to go before Ms catches up to Apple
Till Microsoft fixes all these issues I'll never switch back !

[karmagun]

registry issues are easily fixed with free apps like CCleaner (yes, double 'C'). And you mean the computer is 'unsecured', not 'insecure' ;)

As some have already said, it comes down to personal preference or what you're going to use the machine for. Trying to get a job as a graphics designer with a magazine? Show up with a Mac book and you'll be seen as 'trendy' & 'style oriented', whereas an industrial looking PC based laptop will send the opposite message. Want a job in IT? A pc-based laptop running Linux and Windows tells them you're tech-trend savvy and concerned about cross-platform compatibility. Just using the machine for yourself, without the image consciousness? Buy what you like.

[mlcgruhlke]

Hey Brooke, didn't you notice that for the same money you spent on the Mac, you got double the ram, better video, and a larger hard drive? Plus, it appears that the Dell comes with a 2 year warranty whereas Mac is 1 year, I know about that too since I have already checked on Apple's website. As a techie myself who runs Ubuntu, Mac Osx, and Windows XP Pro, I can tell you I get more bang for my buck with Ubuntu (linux) and XP Pro. I can avoid virus' by making sure not to run LInux in boot mode, and XP as a user, people in this posting will understand.

[bojennett]

uh, mlcgruhlke, double the memory? Well, not quite. Because with XP or Vista Home, you can only access 3GB of that 4 GB. And the Dell, under that configuration, is Vista Home. So, upgrade to Vista 64-bit, add $150. Now you can use all 4GB, but you are also paying more. And Vista is a pig. Not a subjective comment. It just dogs your resources, so that 2.53 MHz Core 2 is going to be slower than what is running on the Mac. Check out performance tests if you don't believe me.

Next, to bring the costs more inline, upgrade the Mac to 4GB of RAM... add $100. So now, you have the same amount of RAM, in both machines that you can actually use. And yet the Macbook, which is thinner, lighter, and more sturdy, is still costing you $49 LESS than this Dell machine. And, since you are 64-bit Vista, any older software you have and any older peripherals you have, well, they may or may not work.

Now, you still get 250GB more storage with the Dell. You're gonna need that extra RPM for the Hard Drive, too (see above: performance).

Look, I'm not a fanboi. I do like Macs, for sure, but I'm not a zealot. But even when you TRY to get a machine that is close in specs to a Mac, once you really peer into it and apply technical knowledge, you don't. The ONLY benefit you get with a Windows machine is you can find a Windows machine that is much, much, much less money once you give up on features. You want equivalent features? Buy the Mac.

[extreme343gs]

k fine then. if your running xp. where exactly are you gonna get it?? & even if you do get it you will have to work on it as a limited user. get the last two words right.
"limited accounts cannot make system-wide changes or install some applications. If you need to make changes to your system, log on with the administrator account you used to create the new accounts."
now thats from the microsoft website.

[seven7dust]

Simple fact Vista needs a crazy amount of Ram cause it's bloated
plus Windows in general needs crap loads of ram for all the background apps
running on it it's the way Windows is designed
also Vista is so bloated taht it takes up nearly 15 Gb of HD space
add in all the crapware Dell ships em with and thats more wasted space !
So the HD space isnt as it seems granted you still get more on the Pc side generally

So plzz stop judging Macs by PC/Windows standards

[sharmajunior]

@ bojennett

News flash. I hate to break it you. When was the last time you looked at windows computers?

For over a year now, manufacturers are providing the option to upgrade to a 64 bit vista OS for free. So if yuo choose to go with 4GB RAM, then you might as well get a 64 bit OS right. Check out dell's website and see whether you really have to pay 150 bucks to upgrade to 64 bit. I agree that vista is a pig but the upgrade option only holds true if you upgrade aftermarket. Here's an interesting fact, if you got a 32bit OS and decide later to upgrade to 64 bit, then just call up Dell (since we are discussing this OEM) and have them send you 64 bit copy of the OS, in some a few cases its free but in manny cases its a minimal fee and not 150 bucks.

[ckh1272]

sharmajunio says-"For over a year now, manufacturers are providing the option to upgrade to a 64 bit vista OS for free. So if yuo choose to go with 4GB RAM, then you might as well get a 64 bit OS right. Check out dell's website and see whether you really have to pay 150 bucks to upgrade to 64 bit. I agree that vista is a pig but the upgrade option only holds true if you upgrade aftermarket. Here's an interesting fact, if you got a 32bit OS and decide later to upgrade to 64 bit, then just call up Dell (since we are discussing this OEM) and have them send you 64 bit copy of the OS, in some a few cases its free but in manny cases its a minimal fee and not 150 bucks."

To get equal functionality of OS 10.5, you would need to upgrade to upgrade to Windows Vista Ultimate, which IS $150.00!! As the Dell website says, "Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Edition 64-bit [Included in Price]
Dell recommended: The most complete version of Windows Vista®. Delivers both home entertainment and business benefits." Well, that is what OS 10.5 does right out of the box. No need to upgrade for what should already be included. That's just my opinion. BTW, that upgrade takes the price to $1748!

[kittyw2]

I actually checked this out this morning on the Dell site because my mom bought a new iMac yesterday. Comparing all-in-ones, we find that their Studio line all-in-one, with 320 gigs less hard drive, was $100 more than the price she paid, and $400 more than the equivalent-spec Mac machine. Plus, it took her 20 minutes to learn to use, whereas she was swearing over Vista for over a month. Form over function? Not really...

[DrtyDogg]

@bojennett & ckh1272: The truth of the matter is that that laptop comes with Vista Home Premium 64bit. No upgrades/changes are required.

@7dust: You again? http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=573. "For those keeping score, the Vista machine is using 594MB of RAM, which is roughly 2% more than its Mac counterpart running the same set of tasks." 2%, again 2% that's not quite a crapload. Please stop with the fanboy fabrications.

@chk1272: What functionality are you talking about? You really need to do some research on a subject before you try and post on a tech site.

[sharmajunior]

@ ckh1272

The other guy was talking about the option to upgrade between a 32bit and 64 bit system. There was nothing mentioned in his post about additional functionality.

That is where the free option to upgrade between 32 bit and 64 bit come in.

There isn't that much difference between Home premium and Ultimate anyways. I guess you are just a troll reading around other peoples posts and posting useless junk. Let me guess, you don't even have a windows computer. How can you compare.

[ckh1272]

by sharmajunior April 5, 2009 4:19 PM PDT
@ ckh1272

The other guy was talking about the option to upgrade between a 32bit and 64 bit system. There was nothing mentioned in his post about additional functionality.

That is where the free option to upgrade between 32 bit and 64 bit come in.

There isn't that much difference between Home premium and Ultimate anyways. I guess you are just a troll reading around other peoples posts and posting useless junk. Let me guess, you don't even have a windows computer. How can you compare.

I have 3 Windows computers and two macs, so please don't assume anything about anyone you know nothing about. Since most Windows users like to point out $$, I just thought I would return the favor. I have found that Macs work better for me than Windows. I keep the Win. systems for some work related stuff and maybe a game or two. I have built a few and done a ton of upgrades to Windows systems, so please dismiss the troll statements. I just like to keep things simple. I am not saying that one system is better than the other. They both have their pros and cons. People should just make mental list (or write it down) and test drive all the OS's they can stand.

by DrtyDogg April 5, 2009 12:16 PM PDT
"@chk1272: What functionality are you talking about? You really need to do some research on a subject before you try and post on a tech site."

Ummm...what functionality, you ask. Mac has all the almost unlimited networking and multimedia control right out of the box for much less $$$ than Vista Ultimate. Research that all you want. That is just a simple fact of life, I promise. Microsoft would do well to simplify the options when it comes to the OS. Offer 32 or 64 bit. It really doesn't matter, as long as it has all capabilities as the competing OS in the end.

[ckh1272]

by sharmajunior April 5, 2009 4:19 PM PDT
@ ckh1272

The other guy was talking about the option to upgrade between a 32bit and 64 bit system. There was nothing mentioned in his post about additional functionality.

That is where the free option to upgrade between 32 bit and 64 bit come in.

There isn't that much difference between Home premium and Ultimate anyways. I guess you are just a troll reading around other peoples posts and posting useless junk. Let me guess, you don't even have a windows computer. How can you compare.

I have 3 Windows computers and two macs, so please don't assume anything about anyone you know nothing about. Since most Windows users like to point out $$, I just thought I would return the favor. I have found that Macs work better for me than Windows. I keep the Win. systems for some work related stuff and maybe a game or two. I have built a few and done a ton of upgrades to Windows systems, so please dismiss the troll statements. I just like to keep things simple. I am not saying that one system is better than the other. They both have their pros and cons. People should just make mental list (or write it down) and test drive all the OS's they can stand.

by DrtyDogg April 5, 2009 12:16 PM PDT
"@chk1272: What functionality are you talking about? You really need to do some research on a subject before you try and post on a tech site."

Ummm...what functionality, you ask. Mac has all the almost unlimited networking and multimedia control right out of the box for much less $$$ than Vista Ultimate. Research that all you want. That is just a simple fact of life, I promise. Microsoft would do well to simplify the options when it comes to the OS. Offer 32 or 64 bit. It really doesn't matter, as long as it has all capabilities as the competing OS in the end.

[myles taylor]

I'm sick and tired of people saying the Macs are about looks and not about functionality. My arguments for getting people to switch never mention form; the argument never even enters the conversation. That's just an added bonus.

You have to look beyond stats. Especially with the average consumer who uses their computer for basic browsing and the like. The problem here is that most of the CNet readers are heavy computer users who use their machines for things that push them to the limit. Most computer users do not. For function, I pick a Mac every day. Not because of Hardware, which I agree isn't really that amazing (except in looks), but for the functionality of the OS. Things on a Mac make sense. Settings are where you would expect them to be and are labeled in ways that make sense, not in confusing, jumbled ways that are buried. In my previous job I worked for an ISP and helping the average user navigate to their network settings was 10 times easier on a Mac than on PC. Vista was worse than XP, but still. As a person who's job title is a tech support, I prefer Macs for their functionality. What is so functional about PCs?

[karmagun]

if the average user is just using a computer for browsing and whatnot, it's no wonder that $50 netbooks are catching on (much to the dismay of both Apple AND Miicrosoft, who are left watching from the sidelines)

[Renegade Knight]

"Settings are where you would expect them to be and are labeled in ways that make sense, not in confusing, jumbled ways that are buried"

One of the false promises made as I jumped to a Mac. It's not a "like a duck to water" transition. There is a learning curve and I do bang my head in frustration as I can't find simple things that should exist like "Move this freaking file from point a to point b".

In time I'll master it.

[Lerianis3]

No Vista settings are label in 'confusing jumbled ways that are buried'. Go into Control Panel, everything is there.
It's not Microsoft's fault if you are too lazy to actually LOOK for the settings that you wish to change or even search for them.

[kelmon]

@Renegade Knight

You are quite correct. The problem is that a Mac is not a PC and therefore things are "different". I will argue that things are definitely better on a Mac but by virtue of the fact that they are different it means that you have to effectively unlearn what you had learnt from Windows. Having been through this myself I can quite appreciate what you are saying.

@Lerianis3

Of course it is Microsoft's fault. Blaming the user is the easy way out and, personally, I can't stand the Control Panel for Windows 7. With Windows XP I pretty much knew where everything is but the new Control Panel is a mess. If a user can't find the option that they need then that's bad design, particularly if they can do so on other platforms.

[ewelch]

Sophistry. The author really offers nothing with this article, except he repeats a cliché that Apples are flashy, nothing more than surface beauty while WIndows is utilitarian.

While in reality, Macs are everything Windows notebooks are (and in fact can act exactly like one for 99.99 percent of software available) plus they are more. Not the hardware. That's a straw man. It's the integration of software and hardware. OS X yes, but not just that it's different. But OS X offers Automator and Applescript. You simply do not have an equivalent on Windows. Power users can take that and do things you can't with Windows. There are many other examples of how OS X is put together and what that means for utility, power and capabilities that makes me and many others more productive than we could be with WIndows. Not everyone will be, and it really doesn't make a difference. But there's no denying for many people, there is no substitute. Bu it's a false premise that Windows is more utilitarian - unless by that you mean not as powerful, but powerful enough. By powerful I don't mean how many processor cycles per second.

The author makes the same mistake so many do. They think design is how something looks. Fine, then he hasn't yet figured out what makes Apple so successful, just like so many pundits do everything they can to tear them down and deny reality. Only without the animus.

"Most people make the mistake of thinking design is what it looks like. People think it?s this veneer ? that the designers are handed this box and told, ?Make it look good!? That?s not what we think design is. It?s not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." ? Steve Jobs

Let that soak in a bit before denying the fact that Jobs believes it. He obviously does. And that is what drives Apple, and that's why so many of us choose OS X over Linux and WIndows. Until people understand that, then they simply won't get it.

[Alex Alexzander]

The world is 96% Windows and 3.3% Macs. So many of use chose the Mac? You mean, so few of you.

Alex Alexzander

[sharmajunior]

Obvisously you are the odd one out. You may be 0.00000000000000000001% of the users that actaully use a Mac just like some do windows pcs's for work. By work i mean actually using specific commands and using the internal operations to get things done and not only relying on a software. Go on the streets or even better go to a college and ask the students of any university that carry a Mac "why did you make the decision to buy a Mac" and you'll get the answer that everyone here is raging about.

Actual student: "Oh, I bought the Mac for the looks and because it doesn't get viruses."

I can't tell you how many times I have heard that.

The fact is, its not about which is better, its about what gets your job done. If you are in the gaming or other software developing industry, you might use linux or windows. If you are in the graphics design and arts industry, you might use a Mac. These are just a few examples.

[monkeyfun14]

Powershell anyone?

[newidforu]

Typical MAC fanboy

[jgarriot]

@ Alex: Funny though why there are that many more PCs in the world yet Apple as a company is so much more influential and powerful than Microsoft can ever be at this point!

[seven7dust]

@alex alezander
thats exactly wat makes this whole ad campaign more hilarious
even with So small a share in computer
Mafiasoft sees Apple as a threat ! kinda funny dont you think

[billid83301]

I believe this article is poorly written. Poorly researched and poorly edited. The author probably has never used an Apple IF they had he/she would have realized that Macs are superior computers. I did not see a bunch of mac users having to prepare for the latest virus attack. Microsoft tried to copy the "look" of OS X. The interesting point to me is this: Apples might cost more but the OS costs the same each update. Microsoft offers levels of the Vista that cost 2 to 3 times what Apple's OS does. Yet, Microsoft's product is produced in a rush and then they have to try to fix all the holes. I have used a great number of PCs. Some good ones. Unfortunately my best was lost to a virus attack. Since then I have used a mac and I won't go back. About this article: I have grown tired of CNET's ridiculous attempts of furthering the debate between Apple and Microsoft. The debate is over for me. I am pleased with my decision to own a Macbook Pro 2.8ghz. especially when I sat and watched my friend trying to get her computer ready for the April Fool's attack. Why doesn't CNET offer more helpful or informative articles that could benefit the masses?

[sharmajunior]

The reason windows is so full of viruses (as you would call it) is because it is more popular, running on more computers in the world and ofcourse every OS has its loopholes.

Now don't start on "This OS doesn't have any loopholes" because I am sure it does but hackers and attackers don't waste time on things that won't do much damage. I am sure if they wanted to, they could make Mac users run with their money to an Apple store to buy security software that does not yet exist (yet).

About your so called friend getting her computer ready for the attack. Either she does not know much about them and is going along the hype generated which most people do or she is an idiot. An average pc user knows that as long as they have proper up to date protection and the updates from microsoft, then they have nothing to fear.

If you are tryingt to make it sound like Macs don't get viruses, then give me your email address and ip address, I'll send some nasty Mac viruses and spyware your way. Let's see how prepared you are to handle them.

[newidforu]

The debate is over for you? Funny how you still want to keep commenting though

[pithenumber]

Apple releases their OS more often than MS and makes smaller changes than MS does, in the end, you are paying the same or even more for Mac OS than Windows.

The media makes threats seem much bigger than they are, Conficker uses a hole that was patched by MS ages ago
unless your friend turned off auto update, there was nothing to worry about

[Renegade Knight]

After having used both Mac and Windows in their most recent versions. Leapard and Vista Mac isn't superior. Just different, and lucky enough to be obscure enough to not attract much malware attention. I actually have to give the not to Vista as the better interface. On my Mac vista is actually more stable than OS X. I can't say the same for Vista on a PC. Go figure.

[SkydiveGuy]

Another thing people ALWAYS leave out when comparing Mac to PC...
What are you going to do with it?
I use a 13in MacBook as my daily driver at work and home. I am a computer technician and need to support both platforms so I run OS X with XP in a VM.
If I were running AutoCAD or higher end number crunching, I wouldnt be using a 13in MacBook, I would be using a MacPro (note, not MacBook Pro!) for this.
People are so hung up on comparing apples to oragnes (pun not intended).
A good way to compare this is to take a construction worker and make an ad with him going to a BMW dealer looking for a pickup truck to use for his work.
Buy a computer that will do what YOU need it to do.
(also, we do some serious number crunching at my job and running XP in a VM will process data way better than running XP natively).

[rapier1]

"also, we do some serious number crunching at my job and running XP in a VM will process data way better than running XP natively"

They you have a really weird application that runs better with fewer cores and less memory.

[seven7dust]

@rapier1
see the Cnet bechmarks at how a Mac mini Owns the crap out of massive beige Pc boxes when it comes to multi-tasking !
even the 1 GB Model
looks like judging Application performance on hardware is not the right way to go about it !

[DrtyDogg]

lol 7dust, they posted 4 benchmarks, the mini bested on only one of them, and barely. The benchmarks are followed by this quote:

"We have mixed feelings about the Mac Mini's benchmark performance. The $799 model has 2GB of RAM compared with the $599 Mac Mini's 1GB, but that really only helps the higher-end Mini on our multitasking test. Otherwise, both systems are equally slow compared with a handful of Windows desktops."

You really need to find some better material if you are going to continue with these rants.

[seven7dust]

@ DrtyDogg
and yes which was the bechmark that the Mini won on again ?Multi-tasking
this is the benchmark that we use the most
imagine if a Mac mini could beat them so badly
I wonder How the Macbook in question will fare ?

Face it Vista is bloated ! only Fanboys will say otherwise !
even gamers who only care only about performance are using XP !
the fact that Ram prices fell by 80% after Vista's release should mean something
something I thank MS everyday for BTW !

[rapier1]

@Seven7Dust,

Lets try this again. If you have an application that runs better with fewer resources then its a really weird application. In a VM on OSX you are limited to a subet of the available hardware - you need to have something left to run the host OS, right? Please note, he's not talking about running the same app uinder different OSes - he's talking about running the same app on the same OS but one in a VM and one natively. So either this guy isn't running the application on comparable hardware, or he doesn't know what he's talking about, or he has a magical application.

[DrtyDogg]

@7dust, the one benchmark that you are talking about is "Multimedia multi-tasking" just as you've overstated the benchmarks importance, you have also overstated the comparison PCs as well as the fact you've grosly overstated the margin of victory on the 1 benchmark that the mini came out on top.

[Perry_Clease]

"I believe this article is poorly written. Poorly researched and poorly edited."

That maybe true, but soon it will have more "hits" than a baseball player on steroids. The article's title will attract fanboys from both teams like free beer night at the game.

[William Crow]

I had worlds of trouble when I had my Windows based laptop. I reloaded the entire OS 2-3 times a year just to keep the machine fast enough to use. I spent hundreds of hours a year just trying to keep up with the latest virus and malware programs. I had been Windows forever. Then I broke with the crowd and tradition, opted for the elegance of an iMac and will never go back.
In truth its the day after day trouble free nature of the Mac OS that will hold me. Never had to reload the OS. I've never even run virus software, so I'm saving how much a year?

[sharmajunior]

Please do give me your email address and ip address, I'll send some viruses, malware and spyware designed to take over your mac. Please do send it, as I am trying to break down the myth about Macs.

"Oh, I use a Mac because it never gets a virus and you don't have to buy anything". That means you either don't use it or go on a limited number of websites. For an average Mac user, ask me and others who actually use their Macs properly, how we have to deal with malware and viruses every now and then.

Sure its not as frequent as a windows virus but its there god dammmit and nothing is immune.

[monkeyfun14]

Sorry sir but you are a idiot.

Hundreds of hours a year?

I just let my Vista system do auto-updates and my av auto-update and I have no issues.

[seven7dust]

@sharmajunior
it's been 10 yrs Since OSX was relaesed
and yet there has been no outbreak of viruses ! Not even once
Marketshare matters maybe but still there's millions of Mac users worldwide using the internet Everyday !
there's bound to be some threats atleast !
but for some reason there isn't !
So you run your Anti-spyware,AV software all you want
but Some of us Don't want to waste Time and CPU resources on it !

[Thomas, David]

@ sharmajunior

Name one virus, not malware. Malware is an application written with ill intent disguised to be something useful. Which, of course you must know, has to be installed by the user on *IX operated machines.

[sharmajunior]

At all of the people asking about viruses that they think exist for OSX.

Here are a few names:

Trojan.iservices.A
Trojan.iservices.B

These are just a few names. I have to go look in the database at my university for more names. These were just from teh top of my head that I have seen. BTW the first osx virus was discovered sometime between 2005 and 2006.

Seven7dust,

[seven7dust]

@ sharmajunior
Like I said outbreaks not exploits and Trojans
Windows computers get affected everyday something that doesn't happen on a Mac

and to Proove your ignorance more you just listed trojans
these aren't even close to being Viruses
back to the drawing board I guess
it's simple
Macs don't need Av or spyware protection
and a whole plethora of scanning tools every week to run optimally
which is wat I as a user care about really !

[michael_j_x]

@sharmajunior
A virus is something you need to install, so it comes down to user responsibility. If you are talking about worms, and how there aren't any on OS X , then consider this:
a worm needs to find other compatible machines to spread it self , usually searching on its host's contacts. If a worm was designed for OS X, I am pretty sure it will struggle finding another OS X machine reachable from its host. So there is no point on actually wasting time to code one, because you will have a hard time spreading it.
Even so, conficker which is allegedly the worst worm of all times for windows, infected around a million windows machines. Now, I don;t know how many windows machines there are connected to the Internet, but I am pretty sure that 1mil is a very low percentage.

[Thomas, David]

ROFLMAO ... sharmajunior University database. It is a sad, sad reflection on how well educated they are NOT.

I always hear about "kool-aid", and "spoon feeding" when people discuss Mac users, but the truth is, it isn't that at all. Because all of the misinformed propaganda that people read, hear, and talk about are being fed to them through a hugh propaganda machine.

[Lerianis3]

Excuse me, but you do NOT have to reload the entire OS 2-3 times a year just to keep it 'fast enough to use'. What you need to do: run registry defragmentation programs, run disc defragmentation programs, run an antivirus (you would be SHOCKED at how many system that were 'slow' were slow because of a frigging virus on them!), etc.

Sure, you need to do some PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE on Windows PC's, but only about as much as you should be doing on a Mac.

[flipper51ca]

As I was driving to work one morning I noted that in the 20 minute drive there were no less than four advertisements for companies that repaired or provided solutions for PC issues, many around Vista. One company was even offering to reinstall XP for Vista users. I made not of these ads and listened closely in subsequent days. More PC repair ads. No Mac repair ads. I wonder where the Mac repair people are? Lonely maybe? Probably playing Gin Rummy with the Maytag Repairman. Having spent fortunes on virus software, updates, scans, repairs, reconfigurations etc when I was a PC user, I don't think my decision to purchase a Mac was based on aesthetics.

[sharmajunior]

The answer to this is, almost all people, who have a Mac break down go to an Apple store because they have no where else to turn. They are lost without an Apple store, they can't get it repaired outside. It's either no one willing to do it, plus Apple has their own safe guards in place that force the user to come back to them for repairs so that they could make money for the repairs. That's why no outside person is that willing to repair it, if they break something or if something goes wrong, then they know that they have to deal with apple's overpriced parts.

Do me a favor, have your Mac brreak and go to the apple store and see how much they charge to repair that versus a windows pc.

BTW i use a MAc and have a windows pc. I know the comparison between both of the repair costs.

[Perry_Clease]

"They are lost without an Apple store"

A lie

"they can't get it repaired outside. "

Another lie

"BTW i use a MAc and have a windows pc. I know the comparison between both of the repair costs."

Okay Junior, the abbreviations are "Mac" and "PC", but at least you didn't use MAC so there is hope for you.

[fletcherkasmer]

@ sharmajunior
i've had three macs now, without too many hardware problems, but my dad has gone through 3 mac laptops. between hardware failure and other problems, the mac customer service has been fantastic for him. he's had experiences where he called to report a problem and they said they'd mail him an envelope to send it back (we live in a apple store free area) and the envelope was there the following morning, and his computer was back to him 3 days later, cost free. at one point i was having a problem which wasn't covered under the service plan and i mentioned that i had owned a series of macs as well as a number of ipods and had recommended mac to friends and family and they comped me the charges (which i think was shipping). i've heard less than stellar reports as well, but all in all, my experience and the experience of people i know has been fantastic. i wouldn't want to go to a third party support service when i get excellent service from the computer's manufacturer

[penandpaper52]

Ummm.... while your conclusion may in fact be true---whatever---how about on your trip to work tomorrow you work on your logic process. For instance, maybe there are more PC repair places because, well, gosh, umm... let me as a 5 year old for an opinion... oh there it is: There are more PCs on the market!

I don't see many Nintendo repair places. Perhaps it'll be safe to buy a DS and enjoy the brain building power of Brainage for a while.

[liozzi]

Perry_Clease: "Okay Junior, the abbreviations are "Mac" and "PC", but at least you didn't use MAC so there is hope for you."

Ever heard of a semicolon? Normally I don't flame people for typos or minor grammar issues because it's asinine. Why do you feel the need to flame someone over an obvious typo?

[gerrrg]

This is an easy one.

MS-based computers outnumber Apple-based ones, 86 to 10, or so, with the remainder based on Linux.

If you're going to open up your own repair shop, wouldn't you target the largest market share?

[sharmajunior]

@ Perry Clease,

Where exactly do you teach English?

You tell me where have you gotten your Mac repaired if ever outside an Apple store?

Most users (unlike you) have paniced when their Mac went down. You don't have to teach me about abbreviations. Seems like you don't have anything better to do other than troll around fixing other peoples spellings. Haven't you ever made a mistake? Have you ever wrote a paper without proofreading it at the end. No one is perfect. Sometimes I don't prefer to proofread. If everytime you wrote a paper without proofreading and it came out perfect, then you must be a genius. Why aren't you famous then, where's your name on a plaque? You must get worldwide recognition for it.

Are you psychic or something. How can you say that I don't own a Mac. Prove it to me. Let me tell you something. Having half knowledge about anything is dangerous and more so falsly accusing other people of stuff and just claiming things as lies makes you look like an idiot and not the other way around.

I just gave me opinions in the way I see things. If you want to have a debate, then do so in a civilized fashion by providing support and reasons for the stuff you claim as false. Just saying something as a lie doesn't make it a lie.

Okay then, I can say that there are no other planets in the solar system for example and the scientists who say there are therefore lie. This makes my statement weak because they can prove it but i don't have any reasons to support it by.

[Lerianis3]

Perry_Clease, that is NOT a lie that sharmajunior said there. The fact is that 9 times out of 10, when a Mac dies, the ONLY place you can get it fixed is an Apple store or by sending it in to Apple.
That isn't a lie, that's a harsh truth.

Frankly, I am not willing to wait a month to get my computer back (that is the mean wait time for repairs coming straight from a friend of mine who is an Apple fanatic).

[seven7dust]

@sharmajunior & @Lerianis3
it's obvious you haven't used or owned Macs
so stop spreading lies
I've heard people criticize Apple on overpriced Computers ,form over function
even software glitches sometimes
but you are the only people criticizing them for support
which is ridiculous considering you don't even own their products
stop spreading FUD
Apple's support is by far the best of n e company I've had experience with
they not only solve problems but they do it quickly
My keyboard broke once due my carelessness and guess what ! a short trip to a Apple store and 5 minutes later a I had a brand new keyboard in my hand
which other company does this ?
you may enjoy the Dell ,Hp and Microsoft blame game for even simple problems ?
but some of us expect more !

[sharmajunior]

Once again, Seven7dust

Has proven my point. He doesn't know whether or not I own a Mac and still thinks he's being clever by saying that I lied. LOL

If you read my previous post, it proves my point. It is fanboys who can't tolerate others speaking anything about their loved ones.
BTW carefully read my post, I never cricized Apple for its support. I just told the truth as is. So OKAY WISE GUY, prove to me that I don't own a Mac.

That's what I thought. If you read any of my posts carefully, you would know that I don't have any prejudice towards any brand or company. But once again, when you say something about anything, the FANBOYS come running to bite..ROFL.