Comments on: Allegations, denials of 'bad' Nvidia chips in MacBook Pros

A U.K. tech site says the latest Apple MacBook Pros have bad Nvidia chips. Nvidia says no way.

[GotAMD]

I'm not too keen on taking nVidia at its word after the earlier fiasco which was repeatedly denied by nVidia and is still downplayed significantly. I have to wonder if the excuse, The material set (combination of underfill and bump) that is being used is similar to the material set that has been shipped in 100's of millions of chipsets by the world's largest semiconductor company (Intel)", could have been used with the known and admittedly bad parts. It seems to me like it was probably also applicable then.

[Vegaman_Dan]

It's Microsoft's fault, you know. I realize they have nothing to do with it at all, but it's far easier to blame Microsoft for it anyways. :)

But realistically, nVidia has had a lot of issues with this generation of chipsets in all the laptops they have been installed in regardless of brand. The chips run too hot, partially melt the solder and you end up with cold joints or intermittent contact. Some models that have cooling challenges even with a normal situation (MacBooks, Dell Lattitude, Toshiba Portege, HP business laptops, etc), keep these things cool would be hard enough.

It may take a while before this generation of chipsets can fade into memory and nVidia can regain some of their reputaiton.

[vasquezcp1]

I'm nervous. I have the new MBP...

nVidia sounds a bit shady on this.

[Sinerider]

nVidia said in their previous statement that they would fix their material set to correct the problem. The Inquirer found bad bumps, but nVidia claims they're using a stronger glue this time around. So technically, they've switched to a "more robust material set", but they haven't fixed the root of the problem - bad bumps. Glue might work, but the solder might crack nonetheless. Maybe The Inquirer should crank up the heat and see how the chips handle themselves.

Clever of nVidia though - they don't actually say "bad bumps" at all in their statements or emails.

[Zaunto]

Hara is lying. PERIOD. The inquirer took a store bought Macbook Pro and tested the GPU to show that it has bad bumps. The new Macbook Pros are showing failure rates higher than normal due to a new version of the same problem that NVidia previously tried to cover up. Of course, NVidia doesn't want this information getting out to the public. Their stock is already taking hits, they're being sued by RAMBUS and they can't afford to lose any more money.

[WilHarris]

If you're going to talk to Nvidia for a comment, why not talk to the Inquirer and get a comment too? Surely balanced reporting demands that both sides of the story get a chance to air. As it is, all you've done is given Nvidia a platform for a rebuttal that you have neither challenged nor allowed to be challenged.

[ICDesigner]

One should note that not every chip is created equal.... I dont consider mid/higher end GPU chips to be the same as a low power southbridge.

Anyway, I would be curious what the current density of the Lead bumps that are currently installed in their package is. Too much current draw and perhaps they are just popping them. This might explain why people are seeing the "black screen of death."

Overall - while I like reading the INQ, I suspect that the designers at Apple probably looked the different options prior to rleasing the MACBook Pro to the world, as having lots of issues with ones bump 'mounting' isnt exactly a good thing for profit or stock price. I suspect these same designers probably have a bit more inside information than the chaps at the INQ.

[Fraethir]

The devil is in the details. Nvidia is strongly proclaiming that high lead does not make a bump 'bad'. This is true.
This does NOT mean that the combination of materials they initially provided (original underfill + original high lead solder) meant the bumps were bad... Only that the chip failed.
It also doesn't mean that the new material base ('new' underfill and high lead solder) makes for a working chip.
While the Inquirer may be incorrect in positing that the problem is still present because high lead solder is still in use, that doesn't make them automagically wrong either. Their article laid out that it's a combination of all the bits that really counts (though they more or less said all of the bits were chosen poorly).

I find it suspicious, and potentially telling, that if you follow MacbookPro support threads, you find a host of 'black screen of death' situations. Many are mitigated with fan software, implying a thermal fault. Many users report no problems at all. The users that report a problem are consistently using the discrete processor (not the 9400, which the Inquirer article reports has eutetic solder now). The users reporting the problem consistently are gaming (though it's more specific games, not gaming in general). And the ones who have changed only the 'logic board' with a hardware replacement have sometimes seen the problem go away. Without changing any of the software involved.
That last part suggests to me a hardware issue. If you change the motherboard, and NOTHING ELSE, and you get a fix, something in the motherboard gets voted the most likely culprit. Combined with the accusation that good is being shipped with bad, with no good way for an end user (or Apple themselves) to tell which is which aside from if it fails, and you have a disturbing situation.
Compounded that if it IS a thermal issue from a bad batch, any software fix might extend the life, but not fix the issue... but would help push the issue outside the warranty window if possible. If you know the parts are bad, but you just try to get them to last long enough that you don't have to replace them, isn't that borderline criminal?

[salemonz]

Nice to see a story about this on CNET!

I'm a new unibody MBP user who is affected by this. Basically, in playing higher-end games, the GPU overheats and shuts the system down. The frame rate is superb! It's just that things get crazy hot (85-100 degrees C according to temp monitoring software).

There are a LOT of posts on Apple's site and individual game sites about this problem. Google "Macbook pro black screen while gaming" to see some of the stuff.

Apple asked if I'd be willing to send my machine in to their engineers for analysis. So, kudos to them for trying to find the problem. While I was very frustrated at first, the company is making a lot of efforts to take care of me. I'm happy with the progress.

[DarkElfa]

While I have little doubt that the research is true, I also take into account its source. The Inquirer is known for stretching the truth at times and is a long time anti-Nvidia site which at one time had the audacity to claim it was unbiased while being covered in ATI ad boxes. Not to mention the fact that The Inquirer reporter in question is none other than Charlie Demerjian, The Inq's #1 Nvidia hate monger and that isn't a stretch at all. Take my word for it, we'll play a little game. Go to The Inquirer and look for any story who's title has an anti-Nvidia slant and say "this must be Charlie Demerjian's work" and then open it and be amazed at your own physic powers.