Comments on: Apple suit: Psystar's Mac clones must be recalled

Apple seeks not only damages and any profits Psystar has earned, but also a recall of all Open Computers sold, according to a copy of the complaint seen by CNET News.

[markur69]

Apple should have an Open version of OSX that 3rd party developers can use and make better, like Firefox. Once something really great gets created then they can incorporate into their commercial system. To think that hackers wouldn't patch OSX is ridiculous! Its been running on Intel since OSX arrived! In Apple Labs. People can install a patched version of the system that is freely downloadable. I would suggest, owning your own copy and installing it on your PC with similar Apple specs.
If they try and force people to their will they will loose the love for Apple people have. Don't be a Microsoft!
Actually be Different!

[Penguinisto]

They do... google for "Darwin".

[applusr]

yeah they should do that at windows too! we would live in one happy world.

[rk2469]

apple can do whatever it wants to do. Also, license agreement is very specific. I am no fan of apple or anything apple does but... this is a clear case of willful misconduct by psystar

[unknown unknown]

This why I don't own any Apple products and never will, they try to control everything.

[applusr]

does, your computer have Firewire(IEEE 1394 interface) on it? It was largely driven by contributions from Apple.

[Lemon5]

I have a problem with Apple. It is way constrictive. Which is cool sometimes, but this kind of thing is pretty sad. Yea, you have every right to sue them. That is what you want to do, fine. Maybe, if you want people to buy your products, lower the price. I mean i can get a much better Windows Laptop compared to a Macbook. Why is that? Maybe lower the price and this stuff won't happen!

[Dalkorian]

You're funny. Thanks, I needed a good laugh. Sorry it had to be at you. I'd recommend you to make that comparison again, but I fear there is no point. I'd recommend making sure you have comparable equipment between the laptops, but again I fear there is no point. You *WANT* to believe your tripe. Enjoy all the viruses!

[applusr]

Don't buy a macbook. But I bet you this, I will still be using my macbook after you have replaced that laptop several times.

[Gromit801]

Wow. All the crybabies are up today.

I've never seen MS give away their OS. They charge a price for every copy preloaded on a PC. If some PC maker created a machine to run Windows for free, and it had been modified, you can bet the farm that MS would be all over them legally.

So PC fanboys, lets put away the hypocrisy.

It's a slam dunk legal case, and Psystar brought it on themselves.

[markur69]

Psystar aren't giving away the OSX for free. Its another $150.00 for the privilege of having it preinstalled. They purchase a legal copy from Apple... As far as any patching or modification they do to make it run... That's a grey area.
All PC makers have a modified version of Windows on their System. Dell has all their extra crap and HP all theirs. Difference they pay the license fee, but These guys at least payed the full price for a genuine OSX system for each box so... Its a little smoke and mirrors to get it to run.... It runs fine and what PC isn't plagued by problems and work arounds.

[applusr]

Mark,

"what PC isn't plagued by problems and work arounds"

a Mac

[markur69]

I think this will only encourage people to patch Apple systems to run on any PC that has an Intel chip. Apple maybe shooting themselves here in the foot. They should have been more pointed to the fact they are bundling it. OpenMac is just a PC... I got mine without it installed, but have a legit copy of Leopard and then was able to acquire an apparently legal version with a slight patch via OSX86 instructions...not link... still not easy to find.. Anyways, we will see what happens, but I'm sure mine will continue to run. Its damn fast. Boots in under 20 seconds and with the latest 10.5.4.
Thank you Psystar for giving us choices!! Stay Strong!

[gabrielioan]

Psystar "sold" computers running OS X and then basically challenged Apple to sue them, to prove the validity of Apple's licensing agreements. Gentlemen, your bluff has been called. Why anyone thought they'd get more for their money buying one of these cheap Apple clone bundles rather than simply building their own and maybe pirating OS X is beyond me. Get real, the instructions on getting and running osX86 are not exactly hard to come by.

As for others, let's stop whining about Apple, Microsoft, Linux, admit Jobs and Gates have far more money than any of us do, and use whatever OS your fancy and budget prefer. This...from a Mac, PC/XP (not sure what they're thinking with Vista; it's terrible), Sun Solaris, and Linux user.

[Seaspray0]

This is like a millionare sueing the homeless guy living on the street. If apple wins, then psystar will declare bankruptcy and go out of business. Apple will not see a dime (tripple damages? ) and no computers will be recalled. If apple loses, then they've lost a lock on the hardware. The lawsuit isn't good for PR. Even if apple wins, they lose.

[Perry_Clease]

"Complete gibberish. Wow, the idiots are out in force today. [rolls eyes]"

Things will get better in a month and a half when middle-school starts up again.

[tacit]

"Infringe on copyright. That's hogwash, it's not like Psystar goes into the operating system and modify it in drastic ways."

Actually, yes, they did. Apparently you're not familiar with Psystar's computers or the way they install OS X, but yes, they did.

"Apple should lose its trademark because Apple is a dictionary word."

Huh? Do you believe that dictionary words can't be trademarked?

If so, you appear not to understand trademark law. Dictionary words (by themselves) can't be copyrighted, but they can be trademarked. Copyright and trademark law are completely separate. Many dictionary words are trademarked: Flash (Adobe's Web movie plug-in and format), Adobe (the company that owns the Flash trademark; a dictionary word for a type of brick), Anonymous (a trademarked name for a typeface), Java (the programming language), Dodge (the car company, also a dictionary word meaning to evade by moving out of the way), Sun (the computer company), Open (a trademark owned by a company called Alvarion), Aardvark (a gardening tool, trademark owned by Reemco), and so on.

I don't know where you got the notion that dictionary words can't be trademarked, but it's totally false.

[humanssssss]

I'm buying myself an Open Computer for historical purpose. (Editors' note: Offensive comment removed.)

[ralfthedog]

Psystar will soon be gone. All of it's assets will become the property of Apple Computer.

If Apple had filed charges on day 1, Psystar might have survived. Now they will be required to pay more than X3 the total assets of their company. Apple may decide to let them off the hook if they admit to illegal behavior and refrain from selling any products related to Apple.

The law is quite clear. Psystar does not have a chance in court.

[Penguinisto]

It takes time to roll into motion a lawsuit... especially if you want to make sure you have as good a chance as possible to win. We also don't know if Apple and Psystar were talking to each other or trying to resolve the issue before the lawsuit was launched.

[Jimmu411]

What about the original Apple rip-off? The name Apple, which already belonged to Apple Records????

[Penguinisto]

That had been sorted between the two parties a long time ago, and wasn't a factor until Apple (the computer company) launched iTunes and sold music.

[applusr]

By the way Apple records doesn't make computers. There legals issues arose when Apple computer introduced Quicktime, and then again when Apple computer started sell music through itunes.

[sanenazok]

At least the half-baked "first sale doctrine" arguments have gone away. I bet Apple wins on motion to dismiss Psystar counter-claims, or a summary judgment motion at the latest.

[joshperry]

Except for this case that supports the first sale doctrine:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080523-court-smacks-autodesk-affirms-right-to-sell-used-software.html

It's really going to come down to which courthouse this gets tried in, some go along with the first sale doctrine and others dissent, but it has never made it to the Supreme Court, so it's going to com down to which ditrict court hears the case.

[contentcreator--2008]

To those of you who think you're going to hang on to your bogus Macs, think again. My guess is that once Apple finishes suing Psystar back into the dark ages, Apple is going to be holding the customer list, and you're going to get a little letter in the mail asking you to kindly return your machine to 1 Infinite Loop ASAP, or risk being personally sued on exactly the same complaint. There's no magic get-out-of-jail card just because you bought it from someone, especially given the widespread coverage of Psystar's shadiness. After you've sent the machine back, you can go to end of the line to try to get your money back from Psystar's dried and picked-over carcass.

[Penguinisto]

Won't happen. Here's why: Contacting individual users, sending/handling demands, then insuring that it all comes back - without violating privacy laws (there's data on them thar drives), violating consumer laws (which vary from state to state), or violating commerce laws (again, it varies)? It would cost Apple more money than its worth.

[humanssssss]

@tacit

You are pretty dumb. I didn't say dictionary words can't be trademarked, even if I did, the vast trademarked dictionary words in use today are can easily be weakened. Trademark is something you need to constantly protect from dilution. If you don't do it, you will lose your right to the trademark. And trademark is limited in scope, trade, and region. In addition, the mark itself has to be unique to identify the mark. Any company can use Apple as their trademark and use it within the trade that Apple is in because the word Apple is generic. If the word is not generic, the court can protect the company's trademark from infringement in said trade. Most court jurisdiction will follow my opinion.

As for copyright, I did mention "drastic ways". In no way did Psystar alter the OS in drastic ways that would infringe on copyright. Modification of copyright work is protected by another law called Fair Use. You mustn't forget Congress over the years change copyright law to help corporations. Copyright law used to have time limitation. Once the limitation is expired, the work becomes public domain. Nowaday, copyright extends longer and has strong protection under the DMCA and can easily be used to get rid of small competitors. This is the case of an abusive big company trying to bankrupt a small company.

[Dalkorian]

And you believe the trash coming from your keyboard, don't you? Amazing.

[Perry_Clease]

"My guess is that once Apple finishes suing Psystar back into the dark ages, Apple is going to be holding the customer list, and you're going to get a little letter in the mail asking you to kindly return your machine to 1 Infinite Loop ASAP, or risk being personally sued on exactly the same complaint. "

Maybe, but they will probably let the purchasers slide.

[crash110513]

the reason apple does what they do is to keep the user experience and support easy look at windows its fricking huge and a memory hog to boot its all the extra code they have to add to support all the extra crap that companies put on their computers if apple controls the hardware they control the size of their os so what if windows runs on mac microsofts eula does not exclude that and since microsoft is not in the hardware game why would they care apple makes hardware and the operating system that runs it (they are a computer manufacturer) or do you not get that !!!!!!!!

[humanssssss]

"the reason apple does what they do is to keep the user experience and support easy look at "

That's a dumb argument. If consumers want Apple's support, they can buy it from Apple. And if Apple states in their license that buying software other than from them, support will cost $1,000.

Consumers have a choice to buy Psystar or Apple with OSX. I prefer to buy Psystart with OSX. You prefer to buy Apple with OSX because you like Apple shietty genius support but that's your choice. However I highly discourage it but that's your choice.

Eh? How many times have I said choice. Apple has shietty hardware and support, and I should have the CHOICE to buy a different hardware with OSX much like you have the choice to buy OSX with Apple hardware. If I tell you can't buy OSX with Apple hardware but only with Psystar, you have a fit right?

[Dalkorian]

Humanssssss, please stop. All you're doing is showing your blind hatred for everything Apple. You have no legal arguments and nothing of value to contribute to the conversation. You have modified your arguments when they have been proven FALSE, then continue using your modified arguments until they are again proven FALSE, then modify them again ... it's pathetic. Truly pathetic. Go back to scanning your winblows POS for viruses, it's likely picked up a few recently.

[Perry_Clease]

"by humanssssss July 15, 2008 3:36 PM
You are pretty dumb. I didn't say dictionary words can't be trademarked, even if I did..."

You did

"by humanssssss July 15, 2008 11:50 AM
...Apple should lose its trademark because Apple is a dictionary word..."

[humanssssss]

@Perry_Clease

Do you see where your logic fallacy is?

"Apple is a dictionary word" is not the same as "dictionary words can't be trademarked". Read it over.

In quantum mechanic, this kind of logic is called non-commutative.

[Perry_Clease]

"by humanssssss July 15, 2008 11:50 AM
...Apple should lose its trademark because Apple is a dictionary word..."

[Penguinisto]

humanssssss: Dude, knock it off.

[humanssssss]

@Perry_Clease
Ignorant breeds ignorant, I shall not say more.

@Penguinisto
ditto, u have no clue what u are talking about.

[Vegaman_Dan]

humanssssss wrote:

"..I shall not say more."

I do believe everyone would be happier if you did exactly that.