Comments on: More on Vista's image problems

As part of a stepped-up effort to convince people that the operating system isn't so bad, Microsoft is offering free support to small businesses that move to Vista.

[The_Decider]

No amount of marketing is going to cover the fact that Vista is a slow, bloated, insecure, incompatible pig and Windows 7 is coming out next year. Not that it is likely that it will be any better, but you can't bribe people to spend something that you are going to slam hard in a year to try and force upgrades. MS dropped the ball big time, the only reasonable thing to do is drop Vista, bring back XP and actually make Windows 7 at least reasonably decent. As for those stupid enough to buy Vista, let them rot, they deserve it.

[jlamar92]

vista is not slow and it works great for me. i never liked vista till now

[dweezilb]

"slow bloated, insecure, incompatible pig" In what way? Have you actually used it on a new system? Or were you trying to run Vista on ancient hardware? Or are you just an Apple/Linux fanboy spewing whatever you've been told? I've been running Vista for a year without issue, and it hasn't crashed once. Meanwhile my Leopard baox has been restarted several times due to instability.

[Pegusis2]

Sorry to burst your bubble... but I love my Vista Ultimate! I have 0 issues with my install or the software/hardware I use daily. And for those who would rather whine then get up to date with the real world... give it up already! Vista Ultimate Rocks. Rock on.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Trolling is simply not publically acceptable these days. I would advise you try elsewhere.

[The_Decider]

**** Dan, you and the MS shills can get bent. Paid MS shills saying that Vista is awesome carry no weight with anyone. Vista is slow, benchmarks prove it. It requires more hardware and does less than OSX or Linux. That is fact. It is incompatible with tons of new hardware. That is fact. It is riddled with security issues since the only security upgrades were amateur-ish roadblocks that take 5 minutes to get around. Accept it or suffer. If you guys want to be idiots than have fun. The rest of us have work to do.

[whizkid454]

Vista is not a pig. You, sir, are one of the people that are about as stubborn as a real pig. Get over the past and move into the present, the reality.

[The_Decider]

Vista is very slow, it takes more resources to run than any other OS in existence and does less then other modern OSes. How is that not a pig?

[yvista]

Marketing does not make up for shortcomings in the operating system. My largest customer a majer CAD/CAM vendor requires Laptops running XP. This is as of 6/2008.

Fix Vista before you market it.

[Pete Bardo]

I was thinking about buying a new computer, but unless I want to try Apple or LInux, the only thing available is Vista. At this point, I would not even consider that option. I don't dislike Vista--I hate it. I wonder how many other consumers have put their computer purchases permanently on hold because of this dilemma? I think I'll take the plunge--good bye Microsoft.

[dweezilb]

I'm running 64-bit Vista. I have XP in a virtual machine, but honestly I never start it. What is it about Vista that you hate? I've found it to be incredibly stable, and if you're buying a new machine all the compatibility stories you've heard are moot.

[k2dave]

IMHO MS needs to cut legacy support and start over for the newer OS's, and keep XP for anyone who needs legacy support. Again IMHO

[thinkjered]

Let the legacy stuff support itself. That's what the internet is for. I run tons of old apps (like IBM Lotus Improv), but I'd never expect their support cycle to stretch out just to save me. Software has a life cycle and, when that cycle has ended, so should the company's support. If I wanna keep running XP, I should expect to take care of it. Fortunately, I can do just that :)

[Penguinisto]

Problem is, "you" are not an enterprise-sized corporation. If I have a couple hundred thousand machines in my corp and I want my multi-million-dollar portfolio of legacy apps supported, I will get them supported - even if I have to convert my machinery over to Linux and/or VMWare with XP/Server2k3, or WINE, or (insert emulator here) running in virtual machines to do it. MSFT in turn loses a metric boatload of revenue from licensing as the megacorp shifts its legacy apps... to Linux (which can be supported in perpetuity since the source code is open). The threat of this alone is more than enough incentive for MSFT to continue supporting legacy compatibility for as long as humanly possible. This is a HUGE reason why Vista is sucking mud... the NT kernel is too bloated to move forward, but doesn't dare let go of the past.

[mgc6020]

As long as the "three or four drool-inducing features" are actually practical and useful, not just eye candy to "motivate people to get a new PC or upgrade their old one". If that's what they're going to market, then I don't want any part of it. I've already converted one desktop to Linux along with a server and I'm very pleased with both. It wouldn't take much more to push me away altogether. I hope Microsoft is listening to it's CUSTOMERS and not just to some marketing idiot that just wants to sell WOW.

[mgc6020]

As long as the "three or four drool-inducing features" are actually practical and useful, not just eye candy to "motivate people to get a new PC or upgrade their old one". If that's what they're going to market, then I don't want any part of it. I've already converted one desktop to Linux along with a server and I'm very pleased with both. It wouldn't take much more to push me away altogether. I hope Microsoft is listening to it's CUSTOMERS and not just to some marketing idiot that just wants to sell WOW.

[Tigger444]

Vista is fine - for the HOME, and on a new(er) machine. For business - the MAJORITY of windows customers - it has some serious issues. It can have issues with attaching to domains, it doesn't like whole components of Citrix, and VM-Ware. This isn't particularly good when the business world is moving to virtualized environments at such a rapid pace. I get the 'we have to move on' part in the PC industry - much like mac did, however it is far more difficult to steer a ship the size of 90%+ of the industry than < 10% when mac moved from OS 8-9 to OS 10 (which I quite like, but again not in the business environment).
XP works, and works well with the software and hardware I had, and just bought yesterday. Vista works fine, at home with no corporate environment in sight, but for the most part only with the sofware bought recently and hardware bought from near it's release date. It's nothing I needed, and was a "solution" to a problem that didn't exist and offered little to users beyond what they had, but forced them to upgrade or replace hardware and software anyway for only a little eye candy. We'll see what windows 7 brings, until then it's XP and Linux for me.
I hope Microsoft is listening to it's CORPORATE customers the next time out, or it will likely find itself in the same boat with windows 7 as it did with vista.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Tigger 444 wrote:

"It can have issues with attaching to domains, it doesn't like whole components of Citrix, and VM-Ware. "

I find your comments odd since these are area where Vista actually excels in over XP. I'm not sure that I believe you are using Vista in a corporate environment or else you would not be making such ignorant comments. I hope that you try things out with an open mind in the future.

[J. Blow]

Ah, no, Vista is terrible. And I'm not flaming when I say it. The fact of the matter is it is harder to use than XP, slower, and just plain less satisfying.

[wango2007]

by Pete Bardo July 8, 2008
I don't dislike Vista--I hate it.
---------------------
Hatred of Microsoft is a poor way to live, a poor way of doing business as Jerry Yang is now learning at Yahoo.

XP and Vista are used by 96% of the computing world. Vista has issues, but they are not deal breakers. The big deal breaker with Mac is that there are so few speciality pgorgams available for it after all these years compated to was is avilable for Windows. True, Mac sales are up since it was able to run Windows, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[MaLvaDo39]

Get a Mac already and out of the dark ages.

[t26l]

Personally, I'm glad Vista came out and was as disappointing as it is. It finally motivated me to ditch windows, and head for Linux. For those of you out there who have even considered it, but have been too scared to give it a shot, I say try it out! Try Ubuntu Linux, and I guarantee you won't be disappointed. You can even boot the OS right off the CD without having to install anything! It's the perfect way to try it out without committing anything except an hour or so of your time.

Check out this article to see how Ubuntu fared against Vista:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199201179

You can download Ubuntu Linux from this link:
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download

Ubuntu is definitely the manual transmission to Vista's automatic, but if you're willing to do a little work getting necessary drivers and downloading required libraries to get all your favorite programs running, Ubuntu is a smooth ride.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Ubuntu is fine for a geek or techno oriented person. It is *not* suitable for corporate desktop use or for consumer use at this time. Perhaps in the future, but right now, the sad truth is that it simply isn't ready. OS X and Windows do a far better job of being 'usable' by the average non-tech person.

[Penguinisto]

Wanna bet, Dan? I (and the leads and other admins in our group) spent 2007 converting our dev teams to Linux as their development platform, no sweat. It clicks along just fine in the business world, thanks much. Meanwhile, corp IT is still having one devil of a time trying to get Windows Server 2007 to join an existing AD domain... and don't ask about Vista - we ditched it entirely.

[gp2792]

That would be hard Peng...as w2k7 doesn't exist... :)

[Penguinisto]

typo - meant win2k8.

[The_Decider]

Dan you really are an idiot. I realize that clicking a few buttons that give you a rock solid OS is difficult for you, but most people are smarter than you. As flawed as Ubuntu is, it is years ahead in features, stability and security. Not only that it is considerably more user friendly than any version of Windows.

MS should fire you since your shilling makes them look worse then their constant screw ups do.

[happajay]

What is this veggies crap? Linux and Mac Os X seem to give all the veggies just fine without needing ridiculous hardware demands. I gave up on Vista. Mac Os X with Windows XP under Parallels. Have Parallels always open and run all my XP software just fine and as fast as my old XP computer. One computer now a Macbook, simple, efficient and so much easier. All the major software (Photoshop, Microsoft Office) is available on Mac now. If you like games, stick with a PC (you can get more for your buck). Remember with the mac you are paying for the SOFTWARE, simplistic hardware design with excellent form function, and customer support....so they cost more. If you don't like Mac, fine, but don't flame things that you don't own just because other people like their stuff. I've always liked windows XP and hope that microsofts next OS will be worth having under parallels as well.

[wango2007]

by happajay
If you don't like Mac, fine, but don't flame things that you don't own just because other people like their stuff.

----

Good idea. Maybe you can get Steven Jobs to agree with you and stop those dorky, immature PC/Mac ads.

[Penguinisto]

Why would he? They've helped to grow Apple's high-margin sales by orders of magnitude. Too bad MSFT can't say the same as they lose marketshare...

[mrguard]

According to whom? Microsoft? Did Microsoft brief you about this earlier than Tuesday and then, what, it didn't happen? If Microsoft doesn't announce publicly that something is going to happen on a particular day and then that thing doesn't happen ... is that, what? Bad? Funny?

courtesy:
Published Jul 08 2008, 03:52 PM by pthurrott

[GIGeneAnaya]

It is more than just an image problem. I use Parallels for QuickBooks Enterprise access. On my 2.16GHz iMac with 2 Gig of RAM, I can run XP just fine. I can even listen to my non-DRM mp3 files with Media Player just fine. That exact same computer running Vista is unable to play the exact same non-DRM mp3 files without them being choppy and just annoying to listen to. Same hardware, same mp3 file. Vista and/or its Media Player is significantly "worse" than XP.

[umbrae]

Vista would probably be doing better if: 1. Microsoft did not lie on the system requirements to save hardware vendors sales numbers. 2. Microsoft did not artificially force people to move to XP so soon. 3. Microsoft did a better job at advertising and responding to Vista's problems. Overall, the problems with Vista are no different than 95 or XP when they were released (compatibility problems, bloated requirements, etc.). However, these OS did provide a tangible benefit to customers they wanted (new UI, better stability, etc.). Vista touted security (which no one really wanted or they would have been using Linux years ago), and a fancy interface that made no real sense. There was no real reason to upgrade, MS did not even market any reasons, and in the end FORCED people to upgrade whether they wanted to or not. If they let the market decide to upgrade when they wanted, then Vista would have done well in a year or two. By forcing IMMEDIATE sales and restricting choice, people just put up the trenches. People do not like having a choice...

[wildscribe]

A big issue with Vista is its hardware requirements. It needs at least 1 gigabyte of RAM (2 gigs to run like a normal PC) and most companies are not interested in buying new hardware just to run Vista. I cannot think of any large corporation that plans on leaving XP to upgrade to Vista. If MS is smart, they will make Windows 7 a little less bulky so it can run on older hardware.

[Zero187]

Marketing was NOT their problem. Vista just overall is terrible, I had it on my laptop when they gave it to me for 2 weeks to test it out, only to realize that 1 out of ever 5 times I started the computer, my sound card, keyboard, or graphics driver would not load and I would have to pray it would work after another restart. Counter strike would play, but only for about 5-10 minutes before the computer crashed, and there isn't much compatibility for software developers as Vista has too many security layers - you might as well just learn how to code for linux rather than spend your time on something that is most likely going to be replaced with Windows 7 in the next 2 years. By the way, as soon as I put XP Pro on after those 2 weeks, EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, worked perfectly.