Comments on: Gates: Natal to bring gesture recognition to Windows too

In an interview with CNET News, Bill Gates notes that Microsoft has broad ambitions for using gesture-sensing cameras in the home and office.

[spaceyguy]

If this could be done well, it would be an amazing feature for windows to have. I really hope they don't mess this up somehow, because this could be really useful. If I remember correctly natal can tell who is using it, if they could use something like this to ask the person who sits down if they want to switch to their account, or put the computer into sleep mode after the person has walked away for a certain period of time, instead of using the regular power management settings. I would really love to see what they can do to this.

[lokanadam]

coool !

[CDubber]

Maybe Windows will understand the finger gestures I give it all day while working with the POS?

:(

[Mr. Dee]

Couldn't you have come up with something constructive? Its obvious you don't even use Windows, you just wanted to say something bad about the product, so you took this opportunity with flying colors. Well, good for you, you aced it!

[terminalblue]

i lold...
vista 64 here

[Inconnux]

I knew someone would say it :) and as someone who DOES use windows, I know how he feels... I've cracked keyboards over old monitors dealing with windows headaches... but then again if it wasn't for windows, computer technicians wouldn't have a job!

[monkeyfun14]

@Inconnux

If you're breaking hardware over Windows.

You obviously are not very tech literate and need anger management courses.

[pithenumber]

@lnconnux
we would still have jobs

Macs have lots of problems too
and if it was not for Windows, Mac OS would have botnets and trojans

[The_Decider]

LOL that is funny CDubber.

You MSCE's (LOL) don't understand that market share and security have nothing to do with each other. OS 9 had a fraction of the market share of OS X but several orders of magnitude more security issues. Apache owns the server market, but Windows Server owns the vulnerability and exploit market.

Too bad you couldn't afford a real education and had to settle for a meaningless certificate.

[massfat]

Security does have to do with market share, but it's more related to hacker interests.
Also, the OS 9 and OSX example you give isn't very good, simply because the market share we're talking about is too marginal. For either OS, hackers wouldn't have wanted to focus on it, and therefore the only reason they would go after any of them, is if it were extremely easy to do so. Thus, the result is that the weaker OS is attacked, while the other OS was not attacked as much because it was stronger than OS 9, yet still had such little market share that hackers didn't want to focus on it. You can take this kind of sentiment straight from the hacker that exploited safari first on OS X in the hacker competition awhile ago. He thought safari was easy to take down, so he did it. But if you had 2 choices, one was easy, yet both had negligible market share, which one would you attack? I'd attack the easier one...

Now on the topic of Windows Server and the Apache servers, one of the issues here is that Windows Server is still Windows, and therefore it is better for hackers to target Windows Server in order to EVENTUALLY attack the client systems. Taking control of a server doesn't help much unless you can gain access to the client systems. The enormous differences between client Windows and Apache make it very difficult for the hacker to get to the client Windows system, vs a Windows Server. That accounts for while hackers would want to target Windows Server more.
Furthermore, those who use Apache Servers are likely to be more technically minded. Those using Windows Server want an easy solution. Obviously, the ones managing Apache are more likely to install software to protect the server, and do things that will guard their server as compared to somebody looking for something that just works.

[Dalkorian]

And "Massfat" proves conclusively why they're called "M$ apologists".

[ThePizza]

The_Decider is one of those guys. You know, the ones who think becuase they've learned some different that they are better, or smarter? Here's a hint to you, you're living in 2006! You've proved it by pointing out the MCSE, pay attention man, that doesn't even exist anymore. When you're hammering Microsoft guys in the future the cert that you're trying to mock is the MCITP:EA.

Also, I hope you realize how sad it is when you point out how Apache still holds market share. It kind of like when a drag race driver loses by 10 seconds but sits there and says "Well, I beat him off the line, so I feel that I am the real victor" just sad. The worst part is that you all still brag about Apache as it it continues to lose market share to IIS without doing anything to fight back.

Here's my position, I know and use Linux, Unix, AIX, HP-UX, and Windows. Of them all, I prefer Windows. I've been a heavy Windows user for a long time and I've only ever encountered 1 virus and it took me only 20 minutes to fix up. I don't run a virus scanner becuase I don't feel it's needed, so when people all point at Windows and say it sucks becuase of security, I really wonder why. If you take a minimal amount of effort to secure your network and use a modicum of sense in your browsing habits you'll never really run into trouble with viruses.

You say you can't point at the Market share leader and that's why there are the most security holes? That's insane. Where does a thief hang out, the mall, or the middle of the desert? I can say one thing for sure, if he hung out in the desert you wouldn't cross it without having your wallet stolen . . . prolly your identity too for good measure.

[megustansalchichas]

blah blah blah -they said this about voice recognition ten years ago, we have quad core processors now and how many people control their computer with their voice? computer, play music. computer, open excel. computer take dictation. where's the future we were so fervently promised? always in with the next device, but never with the current operating system.

[aMUSICsite]

Voice control still seem much more logical to me.

Nod you head if you agree, wave your hands if you don't...

It just seems like gestures are to physically demanding for every day use, in games it has a huge potential for interaction, but would you want to wave your arms around every time you would normally click a mouse button.

[massfat]

Project Natal includes voice and sound recognition, combined with gesture recognition.
Also, voice recognition is already available in Windows, and I've used it before, although sometimes it's frustrating to use because the computer doesn't understand enough.

I did hear that the voice recognition systems in China are currently very accurate and much better than the ones here, but I haven't actually researched this topic, so don't take my word for it.

[shellcodes_coder]

Great! Will def. but it my xbox 360 and PC when it's released :)

[Dalkorian]

I've read your comment 4 times now and I still can't grok what you're trying to say. Next time, if you want to get paid by the ape, maybe you should at least make sense.

[shellcodes_coder]

Dalkorian: forgot 'for' :P

[ThePizza]

It takes as much lack of intelligence to not dechiper what he said as it takes to say it in the first place.

Let me translate:

Great! I will definately put it in both my X-Box and PC when it is released.

That wasn't so hard, was it?

[syrlinus]

It sounds like "Sixth Sense": http://www.ted.com/talks/pattie_maes_demos_the_sixth_sense.html

I wonder if MS will purchase this technology and utilize it.

[roachbrain]

How awkward will it be while people are trying to watch TV or have a conversation in my living room I'm on the far corner at my desk waving my arms around to a 20 inch monitor? There is a big difference between innovation and gimmick and I think this one is definitely a gimmick.

I do hope they incorporate more voice recognition into technology and gaming. I can imagine entering my house and soft speak turn on, I tunes, Audioslave, Gasoline, email, read new in inbox (reads emails out to me in sexy woman voice), and so on; all while I'm making my dinner or changing. Sure beats entering my house and after a long day at work having to tap dance in front of my PC to get it to operate.

[massfat]

Ah, well lucky you because Project Natal also includes voice recognition.

[devynci]

Hmmm... but it's Microsoft's voice recognition..... I remember I saw an old demo of Windows Vista's voice recognition, and it was saying something completely different than what Bill was saying. And I'm sure they calibrated it extensively.

I don't use Windows, so I can't say, I stopped at XP.

The originator of this technology was Johnny Lee, apparently *before* he left Carnegie Mellon and went to work for M$:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0awjPUkBXOU
http://www.ted.com/talks/johnny_lee_demos_wii_remote_hacks.html

So Microsoft's big innovation was hiring Lee.

[Kwasiowusu]

Mr Noname Coward:" originator of this technology was Johnny Lee, apparently *before* he left Carnegie Mellon and went to work for M$:"

Nonsense.
Natal's technologies were originated in the labs of Microsoft Research, long before what's his name was even hired.
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/dp/search.aspx?q=motion+control&x=15&y=26#p=1&ps=36&so=1&sb=&fr=&to=&fd=&td=&rt=&f=&a=&pn=motion+control&pa=&pd=
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/dp/search.aspx?q=voice+control&x=21&y=19#p=1&ps=36&so=1&sb=&fr=&to=&fd=&td=&rt=&f=&a=&pn=voice+control&pa=&pd=
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/dp/search.aspx?q=ai#p=1&ps=36&so=1&sb=&fr=&to=&fd=&td=&rt=&f=&a=&pn=ai&pa=&pd=

[Kaedrin]

Johnny Lee himself states on his blog:

"Now, I should preface by saying I don't deserve credit for anything that you saw at E3. A large team of very smart, very hard working people were involved in building the demos you saw on stage. The part I am working on has much more to do with making sure this can transition from the E3 stage to your living room - for which there is an even larger team of very smart, very hard working people involved."

http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/06/project-natal.html

[ballmerisanape]

This will take Porn to new levels....

[roachbrain]

Yeah no more lotion residue on your keyboard?..At least I hope that's what it is.

[Roliel]

Bringing motion and voice sensitive applications to the computer has been coming for a long time. Now that it is going to exist for one platform, it makes perfect sense to use it on other platforms, especially when you happen to be the company that runs Windows.

[abcyesn]

Ive been using Windows 7 beta for 2 months now and is soooo sweet. I used to run Vista on it and everything about it lagged. Mainly because of my laptop (1.7ghz processor, 1gb ram, basic stuff); but this OS is not laggy at all. I haven't had to disable appearance (minimize/maximize effect, drag windows around, etc) like I did on Vista. If Google chrome is going to kill windows they better be building skynet or something because the boys a Microsoft have been at work!

Talk more at http://www.ChromeOSchat.com

[Dalkorian]

Hasn't anyone read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? I'd hate to have to sit painfully still just to listen to one song!

[Tedspa]

Why, O why, must we engage in useless "flame wars" on a topic which has little to do with OSX vs. Windows? I have owned the following Macs: the original 128k, the SE, the Classic II, the LC 520, the Power Mac 5200, various PowerBooks, a Duo, and finally a MacBook. I have a Dell Dimension 2400, a Compaq laptop. I was in charge of running small LANs on both platforms. I'll be honest: I find OSX to be more responsive and robust than Windows XP. However: I had few issues with XP, and found it easy to run a small network with XP. it very rarely crashed or displayed a BSOD. I believe there are pros and cons to each OS. Again, I favour OSX for a variety of reasons, but I have no time for childish flame wars.

[devynci]

Agreed, I don't like Microsoft but I'm not against it.

[adamzpocketnow]

Natal for Windows Media Center would be GOLD!! Just flip your hand through the menus on the screen while sitting on the couch instead of using a remote.

[devynci]

Aaah, but we still don't know how well this works. Hmmmm... For this type of app, I think touch screens would be better.

[Super2online]

Seeing Microsoft innovate is like throwing down the challenge of a lifetime to cynics full of scepticism. They just can't resist the temptation to mock, refute, and deny that Microsoft could do anything technoligically superior to products currently out on the market. Thats ok though, because it will release, and when it does, Xbox360 and Windows users will happily reap the benefits.

[devynci]

I don't think this is completely Microsoft's innovation, although I will give them credit for doing more work than they normally do!

I just hope for Microsoft's sake that they don't lock this out to Windows / Xbox 360 users. Of course, a Linux kernel module will eventually come, as did the Wiimote's.

Something tells me that Natal is not the first or the last in this type of technology, Microsoft will definitely profit from this, but maybe not for long.

[Sporlo]

Natal on a computer would be nice. Do a lot of Windows laptops (and desktops I guess) currently have cameras in them? (I honestly don't know, I have a Mac). I only ask that because that would be sweet on a Mac too, which already have cameras standard.

[Kaedrin]

It doesn't matter what camera you already have, Natal won't function on it, because Natal is also the camera. Project Natal is a stereoscopic camera that Microsoft invented for motion capture. Because this camera system has true depth perspective (it knows the distance between itself and every pixel it captures), you don?t need motion tracking markers on the subject.

As I understand it, the logic behind the voice and facial recognition system of what?s been demonstrated so far is also part of the camera.

[Sporlo]

Ah. That makes sense, thanks.

[Sporlo]

Ah. That makes sense, thanks.

[dbloyd]

Wow, another Mac vs Windows thread.

[libertyforall1776]

Cool tech concept, but let's see it for Mac... ;-)

Haven't had first hand experience with Natal, but the thing that struck me most about Jimmy Fallon on Youtube! was how hard it was for him to pick it up at first go. IMO, the problem was how to effectively provide visual and depth feedback to Natal 3D gestures on existing 2D displays? You can't.

This reminds me of all the media hype surrounding how cool and revolutionary Roundtable was supposed to be for video conferencing, except that Microsoft engineers forgot the video in video conferencing and there was no place to put a monitor if the camera was going to spin 360 degrees. It was a solution looking for a problem and ended up creating another which no one (to my knowledge) solved.

Sure, it will be cool to be able to flick through files on my PC with a wave of my hand, but until Microsoft solves that feedback problem, Natal's application will remain niche, especially when alternate technology exists (like multitouch in the case of flicking through files) that can do the job with a much lower CPU and power overhead.

[Xeonmb]

Does anyone think that this new technology will bring a comeback to microsoft. Certainly not. Microsoft is a failing company with the worst os ever and I could never see myself using a Windows Pc. If anything this should be a technology available to Mac users. Find something else to spend your money on oh wait I forgot your a Billion air maybe after investing some money you'll be like all the rest of us high class people.

[devynci]

What's a "Billion air"?

Anyway, I do think Microsoft has been around for long enough without any major evolution. This could fix this, but it's unlikely.

I want Microsoft to embrace the competition like Apple has.